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Divine Pot-Head

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Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2020, 01:32:58 AM »
I think you've completely mistaken what this evidence indicates. As I mentioned previously, you, a 21st century American, may think that there's something "unclean" about burning dung. It isn't necessarily the case that a Bronze age herder thinks the same thing. In fact we know that dung has been used by people for this purpose for millennia.

Didn't some medieval folks make the walls of their homes with animal dung? I think some peoples living in "primitive societies" still do that today...

Apparently that makes some fine cement.

Yes, it's a component of the classic "daub" in wattle and daub construction.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


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Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2020, 02:08:07 AM »
I think you've completely mistaken what this evidence indicates. As I mentioned previously, you, a 21st century American, may think that there's something "unclean" about burning dung. It isn't necessarily the case that a Bronze age herder thinks the same thing. In fact we know that dung has been used by people for this purpose for millennia.

Didn't some medieval folks make the walls of their homes with animal dung? I think some peoples living in "primitive societies" still do that today...

Apparently that makes some fine cement.

Yes, it's a component of the classic "daub" in wattle and daub construction.

That's it.  ;D
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



billy rubin

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Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2020, 02:10:15 AM »
animal shit haz been part of my life for as long as i can remember. as a kid we used to throw cow chips before frisbees were invented. a little older and we used to play king of the mountain in the pilez of horse manure-- the dry side-- just sawdust there.

later on i would hunt psilicybin mushrooms in the cow pies.

az a beekeeper i would burn cow chips in the zmoker because it smelled zso nice.

lots of shit in my life. cats, dogs, chickens; turkeys, goats, donkeys, cows. now possums and raccoons. even now without indoor plumbing we use sawdust bucketz for poop in cold weather. when i move the outhouse well have a sunny place to go.

shit is messy, but it isnt dirty or disgusting. its just shit.



Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?

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Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2020, 02:31:07 AM »
Back some 17 years or so when I was a teen I lived on my fathers farm. Well, it wasn't big enough to be a farm but it was a rural property. He would pay me and my siblings 5 cents for every small bag of dried shit we filled (cow poop). I don't recall it smelling awful, it had a unique scent but it wasn't what you would expect from a googly eyed poo pie. I mean...dried manure. :shifty:   
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2020, 03:57:13 AM »
That all might be relevant, if it could be shown that the Bible is an unerringly accurate historical document.

Archaeological evidence on one hand, religious writings of vague date and provenance on the other. I know which I'd consider more reliable evidence of what was going on.

I wasn't going by the bible, I looked up a bit of history in general. The finding (I'm sure there's others) are that the Hebrews entered Cannanite lands about 1200 BC. It seemed odd to me that a Hebrew with strict dietary law would be using drugs, and also Hebrew law would have prohibited (even today maybe) the building of structures contrary to their religion. The structure shown would be a monument to a false religion to them. I don't think they allowed any outland shrines. As much as I can tell the only religious structures allowed were the temple at Jerusalem and the tent they kept with them in the desert. I'm thinking it's more likely the shrine may have been built by another religion as foreigners were allowed to live in in the territory.   :)

What gives you the idea that there was anything "outlaw" about this temple, and the two altars? What specifically would be "a monument to a false religion"? That doesn't make any sense to me. The archaeologists have said that it was a temple dedicated to the Hebrew god YHVH. No indication that there was any other god being paid honour there.

Do you have a source that tells us otherwise?

Perhaps you could point me to the section in the dietary laws in which cannabis is prohibited.

Frankincense is a well known offering, and was used in temples all across Eurasia. It was a valuable trade commodity. I don't know if you've ever burned incense like frankincense, but it doesn't actually burn on its own if it's being done properly. Ideally you use a clean smouldering base substance. Charcoal or dried dung will do nicely.

Cannabis also has been valued and used for millennia.

I think you've completely mistaken what this evidence indicates. As I mentioned previously, a 21st century American may think that there's something "unclean" about burning dung. It isn't necessarily the case that a Bronze age herder thinks the same thing. In fact we know that dung has been used by people for this purpose for millennia.

What we see here, leaving aside the gratuitous cultural colouring, is two altars. On one, the people offered up frankincense, on the other they offered up cannabis.
I merely had a suspicion that it may be a shrine of another religion. If It's Hebrew that's OK, I'm not interested to a point of exactitude or expressing anything highly scientific. I have incense here from my own pine trees for example. I don't use it, my oldest daughter does. The use of dung seemed odd to me for Hebrews that had strict purity laws etc.  They have clean things and unclean things. If they have clean manure- OK.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Recusant

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Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2020, 04:19:38 AM »
Spoiler: ShowHide
That all might be relevant, if it could be shown that the Bible is an unerringly accurate historical document.

Archaeological evidence on one hand, religious writings of vague date and provenance on the other. I know which I'd consider more reliable evidence of what was going on.

I wasn't going by the bible, I looked up a bit of history in general. The finding (I'm sure there's others) are that the Hebrews entered Cannanite lands about 1200 BC. It seemed odd to me that a Hebrew with strict dietary law would be using drugs, and also Hebrew law would have prohibited (even today maybe) the building of structures contrary to their religion. The structure shown would be a monument to a false religion to them. I don't think they allowed any outland shrines. As much as I can tell the only religious structures allowed were the temple at Jerusalem and the tent they kept with them in the desert. I'm thinking it's more likely the shrine may have been built by another religion as foreigners were allowed to live in in the territory.   :)

What gives you the idea that there was anything "outlaw" about this temple, and the two altars? What specifically would be "a monument to a false religion"? That doesn't make any sense to me. The archaeologists have said that it was a temple dedicated to the Hebrew god YHVH. No indication that there was any other god being paid honour there.

Do you have a source that tells us otherwise?

Perhaps you could point me to the section in the dietary laws in which cannabis is prohibited.

Frankincense is a well known offering, and was used in temples all across Eurasia. It was a valuable trade commodity. I don't know if you've ever burned incense like frankincense, but it doesn't actually burn on its own if it's being done properly. Ideally you use a clean smouldering base substance. Charcoal or dried dung will do nicely.

Cannabis also has been valued and used for millennia.

I think you've completely mistaken what this evidence indicates. As I mentioned previously, a 21st century American may think that there's something "unclean" about burning dung. It isn't necessarily the case that a Bronze age herder thinks the same thing. In fact we know that dung has been used by people for this purpose for millennia.

What we see here, leaving aside the gratuitous cultural colouring, is two altars. On one, the people offered up frankincense, on the other they offered up cannabis.

I merely had a suspicion that it may be a shrine of another religion. If It's Hebrew that's OK, I'm not interested to a point of exactitude or expressing anything highly scientific. I have incense here from my own pine trees for example. I don't use it, my oldest daughter does. The use of dung seemed odd to me for Hebrews that had strict purity laws etc.  They have clean things and unclean things. If they have clean manure- OK.

Interesting. Like you, I really had no idea what the Biblical Hebrew opinion on using dried dung as fuel was. One of us assumed they'd find it "unclean" and the other assumed they'd have no problem with it. Only one thing for a person like me to do in such a situation, and that's to try to learn things.

In the source cited below, there is some indication that dung was considered something to be collected and removed. Associated with this idea is the use in the Hebrew holy books of "dung" to identify something as detritus ("Dung was frequently used figuratively to express the idea . . . of worthlessness, especially a perishable article for which no one cares . . . as an expression of disgust [&] rebuke" [See entry from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia at the link below].)

So the writings assign some negative qualities to dung. However, we also learn that, at least in the book of Ezekiel, dung is not considered an unclean fuel. In fact, in the passage cited, YHVH gives cow dung to the people so that they no longer have to use human dung to bake their barley cakes (which apparently is unclean).

"Dung" | BibleHub

Quote
Smith's Bible Dictionary

The uses of dung were two-fold --as manure and as fuel. The manure consisted either of straw steeped in liquid manure, (Isaiah 25:10) or the sweepings, (Isaiah 5:25) of the streets and roads, which were carefully removed from about the houses, and collected in heaps outside the walls of the towns at fixed spots --hence the dung-gate at Jerusalem --and thence removed in due course to the fields. The difficulty of procuring fuel in Syria, Arabia and Egypt has made dung in all ages valuable as a substitute. It was probably used for heating ovens and for baking cakes, (Ezra 4:12,15 [sic -- the actual citation is Ezekiel 4:12-15]) the equable heat which it produced adapting it pecularily for the latter operation. Cow's and camels dung is still used for a similar purpose by the Bedouins.

* * *

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Dung was also used as a fuel. Ezekiel 4:12, 15 will be understood when it is known that the dung of animals is a common fuel throughout Palestine and Syria, where other fuel is scarce. During the summer, villagers gather the manure of their cattle, horses or camels, mix it with straw, make it into cakes and dry it for use as fuel for cooking, especially in the winter when wood or charcoal or straw are not procurable. It burns slowly like peat and meets the needs of the kitchen. In Mesopotamia the writer saw it being used with forced draft to fire a steam boiler. There was no idea of uncleanness in Ezekiel's mind, associated with the use of animal dung as fuel (Ezekiel 4:15).

Entries from other Bible dictionaries may be found at the link.

Apropos of this thread, here we are talking about the good shit:lol:
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 04:00:03 PM by Recusant »
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2020, 05:45:13 AM »
Spoiler: ShowHide
That all might be relevant, if it could be shown that the Bible is an unerringly accurate historical document.

Archaeological evidence on one hand, religious writings of vague date and provenance on the other. I know which I'd consider more reliable evidence of what was going on.

I wasn't going by the bible, I looked up a bit of history in general. The finding (I'm sure there's others) are that the Hebrews entered Cannanite lands about 1200 BC. It seemed odd to me that a Hebrew with strict dietary law would be using drugs, and also Hebrew law would have prohibited (even today maybe) the building of structures contrary to their religion. The structure shown would be a monument to a false religion to them. I don't think they allowed any outland shrines. As much as I can tell the only religious structures allowed were the temple at Jerusalem and the tent they kept with them in the desert. I'm thinking it's more likely the shrine may have been built by another religion as foreigners were allowed to live in in the territory.   :)

What gives you the idea that there was anything "outlaw" about this temple, and the two altars? What specifically would be "a monument to a false religion"? That doesn't make any sense to me. The archaeologists have said that it was a temple dedicated to the Hebrew god YHVH. No indication that there was any other god being paid honour there.

Do you have a source that tells us otherwise?

Perhaps you could point me to the section in the dietary laws in which cannabis is prohibited.

Frankincense is a well known offering, and was used in temples all across Eurasia. It was a valuable trade commodity. I don't know if you've ever burned incense like frankincense, but it doesn't actually burn on its own if it's being done properly. Ideally you use a clean smouldering base substance. Charcoal or dried dung will do nicely.

Cannabis also has been valued and used for millennia.

I think you've completely mistaken what this evidence indicates. As I mentioned previously, a 21st century American may think that there's something "unclean" about burning dung. It isn't necessarily the case that a Bronze age herder thinks the same thing. In fact we know that dung has been used by people for this purpose for millennia.

What we see here, leaving aside the gratuitous cultural colouring, is two altars. On one, the people offered up frankincense, on the other they offered up cannabis.

I merely had a suspicion that it may be a shrine of another religion. If It's Hebrew that's OK, I'm not interested to a point of exactitude or expressing anything highly scientific. I have incense here from my own pine trees for example. I don't use it, my oldest daughter does. The use of dung seemed odd to me for Hebrews that had strict purity laws etc.  They have clean things and unclean things. If they have clean manure- OK.

Interesting. Like you, I really had no idea what the Biblical Hebrew opinion on using dried dung as fuel was. One of us assumed they'd find it "unclean" and the other assumed they'd have no problem with it. Only one thing for a person like me to do in such a situation, and that's to try to learn things.

In the source cited below, there is some indication that dung was considered something to be collected and removed. Associated with this idea is the use in the Hebrew holy books of "dung" to identify something as detritus ("Dung was frequently used figuratively to express the idea . . . of worthlessness, especially a perishable article for which no one cares . . . as an expression of disgust [&] rebuke" [See entry from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia at the link below]).

So the writings assign some negative qualities to dung. However, we also learn that, at least in the book of Ezekiel, dung is not considered an unclean fuel. In fact, in the passage cited, YHVH gives cow dung to the people so that they no longer have to use human dung to bake their barley cakes (which apparently is unclean).

"Dung" | BibleHub

Quote
Smith's Bible Dictionary

The uses of dung were two-fold --as manure and as fuel. The manure consisted either of straw steeped in liquid manure, (Isaiah 25:10) or the sweepings, (Isaiah 5:25) of the streets and roads, which were carefully removed from about the houses, and collected in heaps outside the walls of the towns at fixed spots --hence the dung-gate at Jerusalem --and thence removed in due course to the fields. The difficulty of procuring fuel in Syria, Arabia and Egypt has made dung in all ages valuable as a substitute. It was probably used for heating ovens and for baking cakes, (Ezra 4:12,15 [sic -- the actual citation is Ezekiel 4:12-15]) the equable heat which it produced adapting it pecularily for the latter operation. Cow's and camels dung is still used for a similar purpose by the Bedouins.

* * *

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Dung was also used as a fuel. Ezekiel 4:12, 15 will be understood when it is known that the dung of animals is a common fuel throughout Palestine and Syria, where other fuel is scarce. During the summer, villagers gather the manure of their cattle, horses or camels, mix it with straw, make it into cakes and dry it for use as fuel for cooking, especially in the winter when wood or charcoal or straw are not procurable. It burns slowly like peat and meets the needs of the kitchen. In Mesopotamia the writer saw it being used with forced draft to fire a steam boiler. There was no idea of uncleanness in Ezekiel's mind, associated with the use of animal dung as fuel (Ezekiel 4:15).

Entries from other Bible dictionaries may be found at the link.

Apropos of this thread, here we are talking about the good shit:lol:
Holy Kow, thank you.
The  American pioneers crossing the plains used buffalo chips for fuel. There's an African tribe that sleeps in cow dung to fend off mosquitoes. Using manure for anything didn't seem Jewish to me. Anthrax is a cattle disease that can be acquired from manure, but has to be worked in a lab to become deadly. So, I learned some things today.  :)
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

billy rubin

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Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2020, 01:17:50 PM »
human shit was dirty

…11You are also to measure out a sixth of a hin of water to drink, and you are to drink it at set times. 12And you shall eat the food as you would a barley cake, after you bake it over dried human excrement in the sight of the people.” 13Then the LORD said, “This is how the Israelites will eat their defiled bread among the nations to which I will banish them.”…


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Divine Pot-Head
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2020, 01:35:50 PM »
Apropos of this thread, here we are talking about the good shit:lol:

 ;D ;D ;D
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need