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Trump Supporter Disorder

billy rubin

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2020, 01:44:41 AM »
therez been a whole generation of truth deniers now.

it got started back some 25 years ago when the dark side realized they didnt have to win arguments by being right, all they had to do was lie repeatedlyuntil people couldnt tell the diffrence.

and here we are living under the minitrue


i would rather be ashes than dust

Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2020, 03:14:32 AM »
Question, as a matter of personal interest. If Hillary would have become president what would be the differences we would have today then the presidency ofTrump. IOW, what would be the differences in the state of affairs of the US.
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Dark Lightning

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2020, 04:34:34 AM »
Off the top of my head, US/world relations would be orders of magnitude better. The coronavirus response would have been many weeks sooner. There would have been women hanged in effigy, somewhere. We'd have at least one less conservative judge on the bench of the SCOTUS. There would still be a number of the chump's associates in prison, under indictment, etc.

Icarus

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2020, 06:08:59 AM »
^ ditto.

Asmodean

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2020, 11:04:12 AM »
Off the top of my head, US/world relations would be orders of magnitude better.
What's wrong with them? I can't speak for the World, nor do I care to, but my immediate area is as friendly towards the United States as it was under the previous administration.

Quote
The coronavirus response would have been many weeks sooner.
I doubt it. Although, if Mrs. Clinton's leadership were more authoritarian in nature, it may have been. Among the more densely populated "civilized" countries, there is a certain correlation between the state's nannying and their respective infection plots. The freer among them tend to be on a linear incline, while the infection rates in various nanny-states have largely stagnated or declined.

Note that when I talk about "nannying" here, it's not only a matter of top-down government control, "there ought to be a law" style, but just as much a matter of general public attitudes (Whether the population at large also thinks that there ought to be a law, or if they lean towards "keep your government hands out of my cookie jar") EDIT: Upon re-reading, I see that I was imprecise here; the wording I was looking for was, "the strength of 'government is a hindrnace/necessary evil' sentiment among the population." I did not mean "the majority," although I worded it thusly.

Quote
There would have been women hanged in effigy, somewhere.
I'm no connoisseur of effigies, nor do I think such things are something an president should be involved in at all, but why is it important, exactly, that they be women? In matters of who gets a statue, ought not their personal achievements far out-weigh their sex glands?

Quote
We'd have at least one less conservative judge on the bench of the SCOTUS.
Yep. (No, really. Simply, yep.)

Quote
There would still be a number of the chump's associates in prison, under indictment, etc.
Exactly who and for what? (I'm not saying that would not happen, but when the cunt-pickeld fuck* did regular people on The Left™ stop adhering to the principles of innocence until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt? On a related note, "listen and believe" is crap. People lie.)

*I do apologize for the level of vulgarity, but that was one of the main drives for my no-longer losely self-identifying with the Left. The issue of presumption of innocence is something I will not easily forsake.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 11:21:47 AM by Asmodean »
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Dark Lightning

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2020, 03:48:09 PM »
Off the top of my head, US/world relations would be orders of magnitude better.
What's wrong with them? I can't speak for the World, nor do I care to, but my immediate area is as friendly towards the United States as it was under the previous administration.

I know what I read from other areas of the world about how the chump affects them. Maybe there's hyperbole there?
Quote
The coronavirus response would have been many weeks sooner.
I doubt it. Although, if Mrs. Clinton's leadership were more authoritarian in nature, it may have been. Among the more densely populated "civilized" countries, there is a certain correlation between the state's nannying and their respective infection plots. The freer among them tend to be on a linear incline, while the infection rates in various nanny-states have largely stagnated or declined.

Note that when I talk about "nannying" here, it's not only a matter of top-down government control, "there ought to be a law" style, but just as much a matter of general public attitudes (Whether the population at large also thinks that there ought to be a law, or if they lean towards "keep your government hands out of my cookie jar") EDIT: Upon re-reading, I see that I was imprecise here; the wording I was looking for was, "the strength of 'government is a hindrnace/necessary evil' sentiment among the population." I did not mean "the majority," although I worded it thusly.

Quote
There would have been women hanged in effigy, somewhere.
I'm no connoisseur of effigies, nor do I think such things are something an president should be involved in at all, but why is it important, exactly, that they be women? In matters of who gets a statue, ought not their personal achievements far out-weigh their sex glands?

I should have been more specific- I meant Hilary would have been hanged in effigy. When Obama was elected, he was hanged and burned in effigy.

Quote
We'd have at least one less conservative judge on the bench of the SCOTUS.
Yep. (No, really. Simply, yep.)

Quote
There would still be a number of the chump's associates in prison, under indictment, etc.
Exactly who and for what? (I'm not saying that would not happen, but when the cunt-pickeld fuck* did regular people on The Left™ stop adhering to the principles of innocence until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt? On a related note, "listen and believe" is crap. People lie.)

I guess the ones involved with the Russian offers of help would be. Hard to say, since Hilary isn't in office.

*I do apologize for the level of vulgarity, but that was one of the main drives for my no-longer losely self-identifying with the Left. The issue of presumption of innocence is something I will not easily forsake.

Responses in green, because  I'm not sure how you did those quotes all separated out.

Tom62

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2020, 05:56:18 PM »
^Well, I don't like both of them.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2020, 07:02:58 PM »
I didn't intend there to be a political debate. My interest is- in your opinion/insight how would the US be different today (if at all) if Hillary had been president this last 3-1/2 years.  The reason I ask is,  just as today logic says there will be the same choices as last election, either Globalism or Americanism.  :)
edit: I'm interpreting Americanism to mean that the country remains as previous, a capitalistic entity.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
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Recusant

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2020, 09:06:04 PM »
In your opinion globalism is something other than capitalism, then?
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Asmodean

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2020, 09:46:11 PM »
In your opinion globalism is something other than capitalism, then?
I’m totally biting on that, but not this evening :hooked:
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2020, 10:35:42 PM »
In your opinion globalism is something other than capitalism, then?
No. Capitalism is a personal choice. At the same time - capitalism is a predatory process. All are predatory by one's personal nature. So it cannot be disallowed. Americanism is based (at present time) on capitalism. BUT, people must realize that the predator must be controlled instead of letting it run loose to the harm of the many. I need to add however, the US system doesn't easily allow any other processes to be very successful , which I find unconstitutional.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Recusant

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2020, 11:07:15 PM »
How is capitalism a personal choice?

Globalism appears to be completely intertwined with globalization. This in turn is driven by multinational corporations. Governments have largely become the lapdogs of various corporate interests, and since globalization is good for the most powerful corporate interests, globalism as an underlying ideology reigns. This state of affairs will most likely continue as long as the current civilization exists.

The term "Americanism" is vague and amorphous. You blandly bring it into the discussion and say it's based on capitalism. Somebody else might say that it's based on personal freedom. Capitalism and personal freedom are not necessarily congruent. The worker in the textile mill in 19th century Manchester was basking in the glory of capitalism, but had very little personal freedom. The point is, your use of "Americanism" clouds the discussion. It may be your personal shorthand for something, but that isn't any help.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2020, 03:44:59 AM »
I would rather say, it should be a personal choice. I'm going by my situation as is. I'm retired and out of business. But, if I were to do some business I have to take into account whether I'm being predatory or not, or to what degree. The everyday individual that has to make a living may not have much of a choice. We are stuck with an inherited system of economy. I would rather be in a closed social system economy, but even at that it would still require at times a bit of capitalism. Capitalism isn't necessarily predatory but is an open door to predatory practices. 

The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2020, 01:57:23 PM »
A·mer·i·can·ism
/əˈmerik(ə)niz(ə)m/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Americanism; plural noun: Americanisms

    1.
    a word, expression, or other feature that is characteristic of American English.
    "the term is an Americanism dating back to the late nineteenth century"
        a custom, quality, or institution characteristic of the United States.
        "Americanisms such as the barbecue and the swimming pool"
    2.
    attachment or allegiance to the traditions, institutions, and ideals of the United States.
    "Americans in Europe have almost all preserved their Americanism"
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Recusant

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2020, 04:22:04 PM »
A·mer·i·can·ism
/əˈmerik(ə)niz(ə)m/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Americanism; plural noun: Americanisms

    1.
    a word, expression, or other feature that is characteristic of American English.
    "the term is an Americanism dating back to the late nineteenth century"
        a custom, quality, or institution characteristic of the United States.
        "Americanisms such as the barbecue and the swimming pool"
    2.
    attachment or allegiance to the traditions, institutions, and ideals of the United States.
    "Americans in Europe have almost all preserved their Americanism"

Do you believe that has advanced the discussion in any way?
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken