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Guns anyone?

Drich

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2020, 05:06:25 PM »
I agree with Bluenose here. I never understood the absurd gun loving culture in the USA. Not that I'm against gun ownership itself (as long as they don't fall in the hands of morons, the mentally sick and criminals), but I find the immense love for guns pretty outrageous and dangerous.

I agree.

Also, the way I see it, people who buy guns 'for personal protection' are a fearful bunch, and I don't trust fearful people to act rationally especially if they aren't trained for highly stressful situations, such as law enforcers, soldiers, etc. Put your average person with a gun in a situation that requires a slightly more complex decision-making process and the potential for disaster is high. There are just too many trigger-happy people out there for me personally to think owning guns is a good idea. Besides the other factor that Bluenose pointed out:

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...statistics show that owning a firearm, particularly a pistol, for personal protection dramatically increases your risk of being killed or injured, usually and ironically by your own firearm.

Well one, your idea of an average person has never held a gun, however the average gun owner trains with a gun. so 1/2 your argument is gone.

The other 1/2 like the poster before you do not answer the op in any meaningful way. i intentionally took away you structured and peaceful society, your police your military. then took away the countries ability to sustain itself through consumerism.

Then i asked your to frame yourself in a potentially threatening situation. Something the average person doesn't have to deal with but is a breath away from today.

Drich

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2020, 05:08:16 PM »
ah well, perhapz i have a different point of view?

my cousin waz murdered in a mass shooting in a university conference room. during a thesis defense. three dead

i used to drive tbrough a garlic festival where a mass shooting occured last year. four people were killed

i once lived in a city where a mass shooting occured on a street i frequented, last year. eight people died

dangerous situations can occur withou you being an instigator. i've had guns in my house most of my life. i'm licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and i do.

i dont plan on killing someone, but i live in a society where i would rather choose not to use the gun i carry rather than be unable to use the one i dont. i dont see this as dangerous.

quite the contrary, i consider it reasonable and prudent
8)

Drich

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2020, 05:08:57 PM »
The problem with guns boils down to stupid humans and their massive talent of deliberately demonstrating said stupidity.
wanna address the op?

Drich

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2020, 05:14:50 PM »
ah well, perhapz i have a different point of view?

my cousin waz murdered in a mass shooting in a university conference room. during a thesis defense. three dead

i used to drive tbrough a garlic festival where a mass shooting occured last year. four people were killed

i once lived in a city where a mass shooting occured on a street i frequented, last year. eight people died

dangerous situations can occur withou you being an instigator. i've had guns in my house most of my life. i'm licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and i do.

i dont plan on killing someone, but i live in a society where i would rather choose not to use the gun i carry rather than be unable to use the one i dont. i dont see this as dangerous.

quite the contrary, i consider it reasonable and prudent

Sorry to hear about your cousin, it's horrible that mass shootings seem to be common in some parts of the world. :( However, I wonder if weapons weren't so widespread and easy to access by the general population in the US then there would be a whole lot less mass shootings.
shooting yes, deaths and injury no.
you know you can make a kettle bomb from fertilizer diesel and a few other common ingredients.. Same kinda thing they used in the boston marathon bombing.. Uhaul trucks and a densely populated festival seems to be far more effective than a gun.

If a man's intent is to kill he will see it done.

Drich

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2020, 05:43:44 PM »
Drich, I live in the United States, and I have a plan B: ubuntu, a word in the Xhosa language spoken in South Africa. The way I've heard it defined is, "we can only be human together." In other words, I am betting on people being good rather than being bad. In times of disaster, overwhelmingly people act with generosity, compassion, and mercy. That's not my opinion; that's documented. There was an article in a local newspaper about this very thing today:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/03/opinion/were-not-contagion-disasters-like-coronavirus-bring-out-best-people/

No one wants to think about food shortages, social breakdown, or rioting. Could it happen? Yes. Will it? I find it unlikely. I place a high value on civilization, and I will continue to act civilized with the hope, and the belief, that others will as well.

But Drich: I do own guns. If it all goes south, I'm not going to shoot my neighbor who is asking me to help her. I'm going to shoot the person who is trying to hurt her.
I do not understand you guys.
Either you ignore the OP completely or you twist it into a straw man that makes me the bad guy. Why not simply answer what is asked.

I picked the power grid scenario because that really happened about 10 years ago and it was almost 3 months. before things got back to normal. And our grid infrastructure has only gotten older since then. yes some improvements have been made but it is still subject to complete long term shut down. if i remember right most all of new england and parts of canada were affected. old people were dying in their homes with no ac, and food was scarce. and yes people did come out and help each other. the only reason this did not go full zombie apocalypse was because people came out and neighboring states shipped in food and line men.

my scenario takes that help away. we can't come out because of social distancing, and there are no neighboring states with power.

Yes time and again we have stood tall in the face on one national disaster which effects a central population which was felt and the blow absorbed by the physically affected rest of the nation.

I am simply adding two disasters to the list one that keeps is from supporting one another and the other puts a strain on our ability to self sustain.

Again we are going through one world wide event. say a super solar flare hits the earth and we are not prepared, they say we are one of these super flares away from total grid destruction. We know this has happened before on the other side of the sun. if we facing it our power and comms would take months if not years to rebuild. How many years can we hold out without grocery stores?/dry goods only

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/space/how-we-ll-safeguard-earth-solar-storm-catastrophe-n760021

Now i did get you said you owned a gun now, and you would help your neighbor with it.. good.

Let's take that a step further. should you be obligated to help those in your neighborhood, should you become a make shift cop or become part of a militia IF no police support is available? or should the government mandate everyone defend themselves, and hand out guns??



billy rubin

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2020, 05:44:44 PM »
i know people who used to make fertilizer bombs to remove stumpz, but a bucket of fertilizer is harder to carry than a handgun.


althiugh they hold tbe drama, mass zhootings account for lots fewer deaths than ordinary citizen mayhem. and in texas, for example, traffic fatalitiez accou t for lots more deaths than firearms. at least those were the numbers last time i checked.

im sitti g at an injection well in ohio and somebody iz shooting a rifle over the hill from me as i write. pretty large calibere, judgong by the sound

regarding killing people, back when i was a theizt i mai tained a pacifist philozophy, and wouldnt defend myself. i dont have tbe same moral imperitivez any more, so killing someone if there is a good reason to do so iz quite acceptable to me
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 05:58:03 PM by billy rubin »


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Tom62

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2020, 06:22:45 PM »
Well, I find this fall of civilisation scenario very unlikely to happen, especially here in Western Europe. Power grids will not fail and no one is buying guns to fight viruses or nasty neighbours who want to steal toilet paper. That kind of mindset is so alien to us, that we can't believe that (some paranoid) people in America think otherwise. Reminds me a bit about that silly Y2K scare in the late nineties.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Michael Reilly

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2020, 07:41:12 PM »
Drich, here is what you asked:

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Has the recent virus and mad dash for supplies got anyone reconsidering their position on guns?

If you are in one of those countries who do not allow personal firearms, does it make you wish you could own your own gun?

what would it take to change your mind?

Something about AR-15s

1. No.
2. Not applicable
3. Nothing.
4. No.

How's that, buddy?
No one wants the Mad Max scenario. No one sane, I mean.
So be kind, be altruistic, and protect those you can.

Michael Reilly

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2020, 07:52:07 PM »
Also, Drich, if I remember correctly from a few years back, many people on this forum are European. In general, there is no tradition there of owning firearms for personal use. It's sort of a moot point, right? You and I live in a country where gun shops have been determined to be 'essential services' during the current crisis. Very different cultures in that regard.

Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2020, 09:02:23 PM »
I live in Texas and don't own a gun.  I wouldn't mind having one, but my wife would freak, and that would cause more immediate danger to me than not having a gun.  Right now, I live in a nice neighborhood, and in the 22 years I've been here there hasn't been a hint of trouble.  If someone broke into my house at night, I probably wouldn't have time to get my gun and do anything, anyway.  So, our plan is for me to confront the intruder, and my wife will exit out the back door of our bedroom and call 911 or awaken the neighbors.  Then they can call EMS to take care of the bleeding intruder.

billy rubin

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2020, 09:42:13 PM »
I live in Texas and don't own a gun.

how is that even possible?


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Recusant

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2020, 09:53:12 PM »
The manifest relish with which many preppers anticipate their "need" for a firearm is an indication of motivations other than mere survival.
what happens to you and or your family if you happen to live in a no go zone?

Define "no go zone." If society breaks down, I expect I'll have plenty to worry about regardless of what guns I might have on hand.

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You're doing journeyman work reinforcing stereotypes here, Drich. Boring.
actually that work is only happening in your mind, as i have not advocated the ownership of guns. I am just asking the question does the light of recent event coupled with another catastrophe make you reconsider.

Your disingenuous claim to be "just asking" questions is transparent and laughable.
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Recusant

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2020, 10:15:13 PM »
Well one, your idea of an average person has never held a gun, however the average gun owner trains with a gun. so 1/2 your argument is gone.

While the "average" gun owner in the US might have received some training in how to handle their weapon, literally millions of gun owners in the US have not.

"One in Four Americans Receive Formal Firearm Trainings; Fewer Learn About Suicide Prevention" | University of Washington Department of Epidemiology

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The United States does not have a national standard or requirement for firearm safety training prior to purchasing a gun, putting the responsibility on gun owners and those who live with them to find ways to learn firearm safety. Only about three in five U.S. firearm owners have received any formal gun training, according to a new study from the University of Washington.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


billy rubin

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2020, 10:33:47 PM »
.


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Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: Guns anyone?
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2020, 10:57:30 PM »
I live in Texas and don't own a gun.

how is that even possible?

Neither do I own boots, a Stetson, or a horse.  I kill my enemies the old-fashioned way; I infect them with a virus.