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MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST

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Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2019, 10:18:00 PM »
yet there are theists who have direct mystical experiencez of god, vac. i know some who tell me about them.


true or not, not all theism requires gods to be distant and untouchable.

I understand deism to mean that god is distant and untouchable, whereas theism is more about a personal god. :notsure:

i just divide the question into theism and non-theism. but maybe that's just a quaker thing. quaker non-theism doesn't rule out transcendant beings, it just means that the question might not be interpretable in the traditional terms. so a non-theist might be a pantheist, or a panentheist, an agnostic, or an atheist. people muddle over the definitions, but i would rather just ask people what they mean.

and the quakers who have direct experiences seem to me to mostly not have them, but want to have had them, and to believe that they have had them. with one significant exception that i don't understand.

Yeah, if there's one thing I've learnt from numerous interactions with believers is that you should first ask them what they mean by the word they use to define themselves. :lol:
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2019, 04:27:49 PM »
To the Old Seers, an Atheist is one who doesn't recognize theism, or find no truth in the existence of a super human entity that rules the universe. The Universe is ruled by the natural laws of physics. We also concluded that the book (Bible) is true for the most part but is misinterpreted to facilitate the concept of material and superficial beliefs , and religions were started by those who forced rulership over the people for their own use. Religions existed from ancient times and were formed from the ignorance of how the material universe exists and function. Superstitions still rule the religions to this day.
  The Seers find that there is an alternative interpretation of biblical creation based in psychology rather then material structure. That is- Biblical creation is an explanation of a mental structure rather then a material universe. We fond from this discovery that the ancient peoples that tell the story became aware of the mental processes that are of human and animal is what makes up a person. That means that creation is the process that makes one a person.  Every person is a psychological fact. Biblical creation is the explanation of that discovery made by the ancestors of the writers of the book.
  From this understanding one can then realize what the cause of the the social problems the world of man is under. It's a simple Animal vs human mental problem. One also discovers that social problems exist because the world has a skewed understanding of what Human is.
Explained here. https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers


The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Siz

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Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2019, 04:42:41 PM »
 :'(
To the Old Seers, an Atheist is one who doesn't recognize theism, or find no truth in the existence of a super human entity that rules the universe. The Universe is ruled by the natural laws of physics. We also concluded that the book (Bible) is true for the most part but is misinterpreted to facilitate the concept of material and superficial beliefs , and religions were started by those who forced rulership over the people for their own use. Religions existed from ancient times and were formed from the ignorance of how the material universe exists and function. Superstitions still rule the religions to this day.
  The Seers find that there is an alternative interpretation of biblical creation based in psychology rather then material structure. That is- Biblical creation is an explanation of a mental structure rather then a material universe. We fond from this discovery that the ancient peoples that tell the story became aware of the mental processes that are of human and animal is what makes up a person. That means that creation is the process that makes one a person.  Every person is a psychological fact. Biblical creation is the explanation of that discovery made by the ancestors of the writers of the book.
  From this understanding one can then realize what the cause of the the social problems the world of man is under. It's a simple Animal vs human mental problem. One also discovers that social problems exist because the world has a skewed understanding of what Human is.
Explained here. https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers


 ::)
Aren't you dead yet, Seer?!

I rather like the Animal side of me. Ave Satanas!
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 10:05:58 PM by Siz »

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2019, 10:09:49 PM »
Nope, not gone yet, and may never be. :-) I take it you think we are Christians, wwweeel somewhat, everyone is somewhat a Christian. We are Atheists. Deciphering the book doesn't make one a Christian. Can an Atheist be a Christian?  Sure can. Christianity and "human" are the same thing. Those who claim to be Christians really aren't. No one is a true Christian at this time. We don't claim to be Christians, we simply know what it is. We all live in a world (sorry about the preaching, the intent is to be informative) that follows and prefers animal mental precepts. A christian is one who sets aside the animal mind and aspires to the human mind. That's nearly impossible in the present ways of the world at large. We seers as everyone else must remain animal minded in order to live here. But we try to be human whenever possible. So, from our knowledge everyone has christian/human tendencies. The trick is--to be human at all times.
 The world isn't going to be human for a while yet so we have to live with it. Here's something for you to contemplate about your site that I recognized way back when I first came here. Q- what makes this site more human then other Atheist sites,----you're more Christian, get it. It's obvious that the operators of this site demand you treat each other humanly, right. And that's why we Seers know that those claiming Christianity aren't Christians because they aspire to the animal mind as everyone else. While we Seers don't aspire to the animal mentality we have to go along with it as that's the what the world basically relys on in it's processes. The animal mind and the human mind together is what creates one's personality. But I digress ( what the heck ever that means, I'll look it up, I think I got it right) and leave things as is. Take care.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2019, 10:14:21 PM »
My most compelling reason to be an Atheist is, I can't find any reason to see/believe that the material universe is created and operated by a superhuman someone. There's no evidence by anyone that such a being exists, and there's no evidence in the Bible that such a person exists. The bibles makes no such claim.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Siz

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Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2019, 10:22:37 PM »
Nope, not gone yet, and may never be. :-) I take it you think we are Christians, wwweeel somewhat, everyone is somewhat a Christian. We are Atheists. Deciphering the book doesn't make one a Christian. Can an Atheist be a Christian?  Sure can. Christianity and "human" are the same thing. Those who claim to be Christians really aren't. No one is a true Christian at this time. We don't claim to be Christians, we simply know what it is. We all live in a world (sorry about the preaching, the intent is to be informative) that follows and prefers animal mental precepts. A christian is one who sets aside the animal mind and aspires to the human mind. That's nearly impossible in the present ways of the world at large. We seers as everyone else must remain animal minded in order to live here. But we try to be human whenever possible. So, from our knowledge everyone has christian/human tendencies. The trick is--to be human at all times.
 The world isn't going to be human for a while yet so we have to live with it. Here's something for you to contemplate about your site that I recognized way back when I first came here. Q- what makes this site more human then other Atheist sites,----you're more Christian, get it. It's obvious that the operators of this site demand you treat each other humanly, right. And that's why we Seers know that those claiming Christianity aren't Christians because they aspire to the animal mind as everyone else. While we Seers don't aspire to the animal mentality we have to go along with it as that's the what the world basically relys on in it's processes. The animal mind and the human mind together is what creates one's personality. But I digress ( what the heck ever that means, I'll look it up, I think I got it right) and leave things as is. Take care.
I know what you think you are.
Semantics and redefinitions. Spare me.

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2019, 03:56:19 AM »
OK, tell me what you know I think I am.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Siz

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Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2019, 07:19:39 AM »
OK, tell me what you know I think I am.


Smurf!
Old Smurf always reminded me of A Beautiful Mind.

Welcome back, mate. Still, peddling those schizophrenic fantasies, I see!
Nope, don't peddle nuttin. If I was a schizophrenic there's 3 Psycho Smurfs in our group(actually I don't think we've ever been a group)that would inform me of such. :)  What particularly do you thunk is a fantasy of mine.
Oh, I dunno... maybe the bit about a collective of high-minded thinkers spread far and wide who call themselves Smurfs, who have rediscovered the REAL secret of human existence through Bible study, and who aren't sure whether the world is ready to hear it. And you can't explain it anyway because it takes years of study to comprehend. Yeah, maybe that.

Yep, visited your website for the third time. Still delusional bollocks.




Or maybe I'm supposed to play along so as not to trigger a psychotic episode?? What would your therapist recommend?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 03:03:04 PM by Siz »

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

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Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2019, 07:45:28 AM »

“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

Siz

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Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2019, 09:27:21 AM »
My most compelling reason to be an Atheist is, I can't find any reason to see/believe that the material universe is created and operated by a superhuman someone. There's no evidence by anyone that such a being exists, and there's no evidence in the Bible that such a person exists. The bibles makes no such claim.

Hmm, might be on page 1:

Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.

Please feel free to write some words now, including, perhaps, 'metaphor' and 'context' and 'interpretation'.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 01:12:34 PM by Siz »

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

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Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2019, 01:34:37 PM »
Because gods are made up by humans and the local humans have embraced a life negating death cult.
You can't get there from here.

Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2019, 06:02:23 PM »
I think you're quit correct on that.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2019, 06:30:31 PM »
My most compelling reason to be an Atheist is, I can't find any reason to see/believe that the material universe is created and operated by a superhuman someone. There's no evidence by anyone that such a being exists, and there's no evidence in the Bible that such a person exists. The bibles makes no such claim.

Hmm, might be on page 1:

Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.

Please feel free to write some words now, including, perhaps, 'metaphor' and 'context' and 'interpretation'.
There's only two things that exist in the universe, material and the psychological, AKA the spiritual. Everything in the universe can be interpreted only from those two basics. It is either material or it is mental. The book is under that same rule. It's contents can only be interpreted from a material or psychological premise. We interpret biblical creation as a psychological construction, which means it's dealing with a specific manner of "person", not the creation of the material universe. Mental can only relate to "person" nothing else. Only one of these interpretations can be true. Biblical creation has to be something psychological or something material and not both at the same time. Considering that biblical creation does not comply in it's sequences with the laws of physics one has to conclude that it must be a psychological construct. If so (and that is what we conclude) then all  those claiming to be Christians cannot be. No one needs to be schizophrenic to understand this. Our cadre has 3 well versed and practiced psychologists who I'm sure will disagree with you assessment of me.   It's a simple case of mental or matter. If it's a case of mental then the Pope is wrong and his religion is proved bogus. No one has to be nuts to understand this. :-) The words used in creation are metaphors for things spiritual. If you read the site like you claim then you would see it. We present this information not that it is true or false, but for your analysis. Whether true or false is up to you to find. We say it's true, prove us wrong, not just say we're wrong. We know that the world will not be at peace until Atheism win the day.
There's nothing in the book that proves there is a super humans anyone. The term "God" begins with Adam---not before.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Siz

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Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2019, 08:10:39 PM »
My most compelling reason to be an Atheist is, I can't find any reason to see/believe that the material universe is created and operated by a superhuman someone. There's no evidence by anyone that such a being exists, and there's no evidence in the Bible that such a person exists. The bibles makes no such claim.

Hmm, might be on page 1:

Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.

Please feel free to write some words now, including, perhaps, 'metaphor' and 'context' and 'interpretation'.
There's only two things that exist in the universe, material and the psychological, AKA the spiritual. Everything in the universe can be interpreted only from those two basics. It is either material or it is mental. The book is under that same rule. It's contents can only be interpreted from a material or psychological premise. We interpret biblical creation as a psychological construction, which means it's dealing with a specific manner of "person", not the creation of the material universe. Mental can only relate to "person" nothing else. Only one of these interpretations can be true. Biblical creation has to be something psychological or something material and not both at the same time. Considering that biblical creation does not comply in it's sequences with the laws of physics one has to conclude that it must be a psychological construct. If so (and that is what we conclude) then all  those claiming to be Christians cannot be. No one needs to be schizophrenic to understand this. Our cadre has 3 well versed and practiced psychologists who I'm sure will disagree with you assessment of me.   It's a simple case of mental or matter. If it's a case of mental then the Pope is wrong and his religion is proved bogus. No one has to be nuts to understand this. :-) The words used in creation are metaphors for things spiritual. If you read the site like you claim then you would see it. We present this information not that it is true or false, but for your analysis. Whether true or false is up to you to find. We say it's true, prove us wrong, not just say we're wrong. We know that the world will not be at peace until Atheism win the day.
There's nothing in the book that proves there is a super humans anyone. The term "God" begins with Adam---not before.


2/3. Bravo!

Since when was psychological AKA spiritual?

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Re: MOST COMPELLING REASON TO BE ATHEIST
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2019, 09:13:49 PM »
My most compelling reason to be an Atheist is, I can't find any reason to see/believe that the material universe is created and operated by a superhuman someone. There's no evidence by anyone that such a being exists, and there's no evidence in the Bible that such a person exists. The bibles makes no such claim.

Hmm, might be on page 1:

Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.

Please feel free to write some words now, including, perhaps, 'metaphor' and 'context' and 'interpretation'.
There's only two things that exist in the universe, material and the psychological, AKA the spiritual. Everything in the universe can be interpreted only from those two basics. It is either material or it is mental. The book is under that same rule. It's contents can only be interpreted from a material or psychological premise. We interpret biblical creation as a psychological construction, which means it's dealing with a specific manner of "person", not the creation of the material universe. Mental can only relate to "person" nothing else. Only one of these interpretations can be true. Biblical creation has to be something psychological or something material and not both at the same time. Considering that biblical creation does not comply in it's sequences with the laws of physics one has to conclude that it must be a psychological construct. If so (and that is what we conclude) then all  those claiming to be Christians cannot be. No one needs to be schizophrenic to understand this. Our cadre has 3 well versed and practiced psychologists who I'm sure will disagree with you assessment of me.   It's a simple case of mental or matter. If it's a case of mental then the Pope is wrong and his religion is proved bogus. No one has to be nuts to understand this. :-) The words used in creation are metaphors for things spiritual. If you read the site like you claim then you would see it. We present this information not that it is true or false, but for your analysis. Whether true or false is up to you to find. We say it's true, prove us wrong, not just say we're wrong. We know that the world will not be at peace until Atheism win the day.
There's nothing in the book that proves there is a super humans anyone. The term "God" begins with Adam---not before.


2/3. Bravo!

Since when was psychological AKA spiritual?
The biblical writers, of ancient times didn't have psychological terms, so they use material things in their place. In biblical terms according to our understanding, a person is non material and invisible. Whether they be right or wrong is not the point here. Bear in mind, they weren't scientists. The writers concern is with the condition of people/persons. Therefore, spiritual equates to the mental, and in turn mental equates to person.
The object/mission of the book is to destroy all powers principalities and authorities--that is the removal of all religions and government.
 This is going to be hard for you---JC is an atheist. Why, because he had no religion. He, being in likeness of Adam who also had no religion. Ok, think. What was JC's religion, Jewish, nope. His religion if any would have to be Christianity, but Christianity cannot be a religion because Christianity is a mentality under which one is properly "human", and not the worlds idea of Human. Being human is not a religion but merely a kind of person. JC is the same as the personage of Adam, and Adam could not be of any religion, if you think so, can you describe that religion---we can't, so he had none. If Adam couldn't have had a religion then neither could JC. There's more here but this can go on for quit a time. In the meantime read the mission statement of this site. The mission statement is merely trying to have the members use Christian principles by treating the members "humanly". What the statement is doing is trying to eliminate certain animal behaviors. If you'll look you'll notice the bible deals in animal nature vs human nature. This is what all the biblical animal symbolism are all about, and you'll also see them in creation and especially in Revelation.  Everyone has Christianity, the churches have it all wrong.  If they are under divine guidance then why didn't they at least see the possibilities of another interpretation. If they are who they say then they would have seen it, but they didn't. Then in either case they cannot be who/what they say they are. We didn't find this with any divine guidance that we know of. So, so much for religions, they're all man made. The universe is of two sciences, material and psychological. It is impossible for there to be any other. (except particle physics maybe . That may be a different deal altogether)

The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers