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How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
« on: November 14, 2017, 12:53:53 PM »
How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.

If you have read any of the critical books on God, you will have seen God described with some rather disingenuous terms that, if applied to a man, would see that man executed by any moral government in quick order. The Buddhist saying that if you ever meet God, kill him seems quite fitting. Frankly, I think killing him without making him suffer for a time would be too good for him. If hell were real, that would be a better end for him as mankind would surely need to see that torture to gain real closure for God’s crimes against humanity. This aside.

I can appreciate the value for society of local churches, mosques and temples but cannot fathom why lying priests, preachers and imams try to sell their God as a good God, when he is obviously more satanic than Satan. Perhaps scripture speak at least one truth in that the whole world would be deceived by Satan and his lying preachers and imams. Not that I believe in Satan.

As a Gnostic Christian, my focus has been to try to become a Parfait, a perfected moral man, using the methods Jesus taught. It has been a long climb up Jacob’s ladder and apotheosis put me up one rung and I have tried to climb higher, but seem to have stalled due to my inability to find arguments that are persuasive enough to loosen Satan’s grip on the minds of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Their need of fellowship is stronger than their work on their moral sense and they stay in their religions even though they know that their God is immoral and not worthy of their idol worship. This Gnostic Christian truth is not a flattering epithet for God, which is likely what cause their destruction by Inquisition.

The truth hurts the religious even when given with a loving touch. I am not that good at that but have seen good honest lovers of Christ get verbally abused by theists. They think hate is motivating those who speak against their God even when love is the motivator. Hate is born of love, and the Gnostic hate of God is justified on moral grounds, and the attempted correction of a believers moral sense and their thinking is done out of love. They forget that that is how Jesus was and how that love driven expression of hate with what he saw around him almost got him killed at the hands of the Jews. So the myth says.

The fact that I have had many theists resist entering into moral argument of their God indicates that they know that their God is immoral. I can appreciate that once a person accepts the fellowship that his tribal nature seeks, and he can survive without having better morals, he is loath to jeopardize the comfort zone he has created for himself. The problem is that theists are living in self-deception and for one who seeks or has attained Gnosis, a deeper knowing of himself, self-deception is basically not allowed. That is why I have to bother fighting a fight that is almost un-winnable.

If you have an answer to the question I posed at the onset, please enlighten me as I am quite disappointed to see so many living in self-deception and without Gnosis, and following Gods who are demonstrably more Satan like than God like.

In the terrible days that we will face from environmental degradation that will soon be upon us, a new and moral God will be required and we presently do not have one.

I recognize that our tribal and fellowship needs are quite strong and a part of our basic instincts. Do you have any idea as to how we can break Satan’s hold on Christians, Muslims and Jews and change their fellowship and tribal needs to a need for a God with decent moral values?

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 02:01:56 PM »
EDIT: Ah! Look at that wall of text! Well... Some muscles needed stretching after being in that pesky Real Life, working seventy hours a day.

How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
Short answer; it suits their immediate agenda, or did so once.

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I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.
Personally, I do not find it strange at all. Let's look at it from just one imaginary outside angle of shameless apologetics. People who, according to the Monotheisms of Abraham, have souls, have a degree of dominion over animals, who do not. This soullessness of animals can justify acts, which would be considered immoral if performed on a soul-carrying creature. By the same token, humans are not divine (As there is no Allah other than JHWH, and Jesus is His prophet) thus, a divine entities' transgressions against humans can not be seen as immoral by its standards, but are a direct result of its dominion over the "lower beings."

Yes, it requires a leap of ill will here and there, but this "paradox" of religion is not logically inconsistent when one  translates the anthropocentric world into a theocentric one.

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If you have read any of the critical books on God, you will have seen God described with some rather disingenuous terms that, if applied to a man, would see that man executed by any moral government in quick order. The Buddhist saying that if you ever meet God, kill him seems quite fitting. Frankly, I think killing him without making him suffer for a time would be too good for him. If hell were real, that would be a better end for him as mankind would surely need to see that torture to gain real closure for God’s crimes against humanity. This aside.
A moral government... Now that would be a thing to behold. On the other hand, I take that back. The Islamic State can go fuck itself. That said, I disagree with the point you are trying to make. If gods as described by humanity were real, they would not be accountable for their crimes to a species incapable of cashing in on that accountability. Certainly unworthy of worship or deference by any standards I may want to call moral, but accountable? No.

For an example, think of a pet owner kicking his dog. Is it the dog, whom that asshole is accountable to at the end of the day? No. Not beyond his own guilt and what have you. The accountability comes when other humans drag his ass to court or hit him over the head with a bar stool at a local watering hole. On the other hand, if I were a dog... I may have found myself wanting to hold a grudge or three under them circumstances.

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I can appreciate the value for society of local churches, mosques and temples but cannot fathom why lying priests, preachers and imams try to sell their God as a good God, when he is obviously more satanic than Satan. Perhaps scripture speak at least one truth in that the whole world would be deceived by Satan and his lying preachers and imams. Not that I believe in Satan.
They try to sell god as something good for the same reason as a used car lot salesman assures you that some rust bucket from the prior millennium has many, many miles left in it, while grinning at you with more teeth than a Great White shark.

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As a Gnostic Christian, my focus has been to try to become a Parfait, a perfected moral man, using the methods Jesus taught. It has been a long climb up Jacob’s ladder and apotheosis put me up one rung and I have tried to climb higher, but seem to have stalled due to my inability to find arguments that are persuasive enough to loosen Satan’s grip on the minds of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Their need of fellowship is stronger than their work on their moral sense and they stay in their religions even though they know that their God is immoral and not worthy of their idol worship. This Gnostic Christian truth is not a flattering epithet for God, which is likely what cause their destruction by Inquisition.
The problems with the Gnostic Christian Truth (capital T) stem from it not actually being true.

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The truth hurts the religious even when given with a loving touch. I am not that good at that but have seen good honest lovers of Christ get verbally abused by theists. They think hate is motivating those who speak against their God even when love is the motivator. Hate is born of love, and the Gnostic hate of God is justified on moral grounds, and the attempted correction of a believers moral sense and their thinking is done out of love. They forget that that is how Jesus was and how that love driven expression of hate with what he saw around him almost got him killed at the hands of the Jews. So the myth says.
Verbal abuse is not hate - it's just verbal abuse. Also, I doubt that hate is born of love. I seem incapable of emotions quite that strong, as they subside almost too quickly to notice, but I can see how an emotion - or rather, a process like hate would be useful when oh, for instance dealing with the territorial disputes of tribal mammals.

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The fact that I have had many theists resist entering into moral argument of their God indicates that they know that their God is immoral. I can appreciate that once a person accepts the fellowship that his tribal nature seeks, and he can survive without having better morals, he is loath to jeopardize the comfort zone he has created for himself. The problem is that theists are living in self-deception and for one who seeks or has attained Gnosis, a deeper knowing of himself, self-deception is basically not allowed. That is why I have to bother fighting a fight that is almost un-winnable.
From some of their perspective, it may be as simple as this; their god is God (capital G). It does not owe you a moral justification any more than you owe one to that cactus over yonder. That said, the "deeper knowing" in the spiritual sense in which it is often used, is rarely more than a thin veneer of imaginary wisdom, or just outright bullshit.

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If you have an answer to the question I posed at the onset, please enlighten me as I am quite disappointed to see so many living in self-deception and without Gnosis, and following Gods who are demonstrably more Satan like than God like.
I think I did what was asked of me. Now I want to ask a question in return; what is, in your opinion, the measure of a god? That some book proclaims a being to be so? That some people believe it to be so? Or perhaps that "deeper knowing" telling them that? How about the ability to create and/or destroy on a massive scale? Perhaps some knowledge we lowly humans do not currently possess? What is this god, of which you speak?

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In the terrible days that we will face from environmental degradation that will soon be upon us, a new and moral God will be required and we presently do not have one.
No. That shit is on us, and it is ours to fix. It would be beyond naïveté for humanity to expect otherwise.

We don't need better gods - just better people with a better ability to affect change. (Said a card carrying member of the climate-change-is-currently-not-my-problem camp)

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I recognize that our tribal and fellowship needs are quite strong and a part of our basic instincts. Do you have any idea as to how we can break Satan’s hold on Christians, Muslims and Jews and change their fellowship and tribal needs to a need for a God with decent moral values?
We can start by not invoking imaginary beings' hold on people, following yet other imaginary beings.

Look... You are arguing from a position of "If God was real, then [this and that]"

I think that is inherently flawed when trying to convince any one who is himself convinced that indeed, his God is real. This flaw leads to the susceptibility of such an argument to skew the point of it towards a debate on merits of "[this and that]," as I think I have demonstrated from the very start of this reply... And therein lies your problem. Perhaps a better argument would be something along the lines of "Your God is man-made because [reasons]?"

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Regards
DL
Regards,
His Divine Terribleness,
The Asmo
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:13:34 PM by Asmodean Prime »
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