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Dominionists in the United States

Dark Lightning

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Re: Dominionists in the United States
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2020, 03:33:03 PM »
The guy I used to car pool with was quite religious, and when the vote came up for marriage equality, he was vehement that it not be allowed. I told him that it was equal rights and he wasn't going to be able to stop it, and that it really wasn't anyone's business what people do behind closed doors, anyway. That didn't sit well with him, at all. :lol:

billy rubin

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Re: Dominionists in the United States
« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2020, 05:16:04 PM »
that's the nature of moral questions in general. th eproblem always boils down to distinguishing right from wrong, and people disagree.

take any particular example. a good one might be cruelty to animals. most people consider animal cruelty to be wrong (to varying degrees) and believe that society should force people who disagree to comply. if it is valid for someone to demand that another person cease being cruel to animals, then it seems equally valid for someone to tell someone else to cease same sex marriage or abortion. the arguments are usually the same:

animal cruelty is wrong
society should prohibit things that are wrong
society should prohibit animal cruelty.

versus

same sex marriage/abortion is wrong
society should prohibit things that are wrong
society should prohibit same sex marriage/abortion

the arguments are the same, and assert that society has the right to interfere in your business. so if they are valid in one place they should be valid in th eother. where the real difference in opinion occurs is in the first premise of both syllogisms:

<something> is wrong . . .

^^^that's where agreement needs to be found, else the argument will go on forever. i don't see a lot of common ground there, because people disagree on right and wrong.


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Randy

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Re: Dominionists in the United States
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2020, 12:42:24 AM »
I've never understood the "religious freedom" ideologues. They are already free to practice their religion and if they don't believe in abortion, or same sex marriage and so on, then I say don't get an abortion and don't marry someone of the same sex.  What other people do is none of their damn business and these people can fuck the hell off.
I think they believe that marriage is a holy thing (hence holy matrimony) and it's blasphemous to their god and if they don't strike against it gawd will punish everyone.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

Icarus

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Re: Dominionists in the United States
« Reply #78 on: October 11, 2020, 03:09:12 AM »
I've never understood the "religious freedom" ideologues. They are already free to practice their religion and if they don't believe in abortion, or same sex marriage and so on, then I say don't get an abortion and don't marry someone of the same sex.  What other people do is none of their damn business and these people can fuck the hell off.

I agree with Bluenose.  But the Jesus people and other religionists are incapable of minding their own damned business.  They believe themselves to be right and guided about Gods will. My position is that they cannot know what Gods will is and whether there is actually a God to issue his will..
 
The religious tell us that we cannot prove that God does not exist. Is it not equally true that they cannot prove that he/she/it does in fact exist. They tell me that in order to believe; I must have "faith"............Really?   WTF is the foundation of this faith that they keep referring to?


No one

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Re: Dominionists in the United States
« Reply #79 on: October 11, 2020, 03:55:51 AM »
Thinking is hard. Faith replaces thought, the uglies of their particular magic sky pixies are supplanted with pleasant, agreeable, and attractive visions.

billy rubin

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Re: Dominionists in the United States
« Reply #80 on: October 11, 2020, 05:13:59 PM »
I must have "faith"............Really?   WTF is the foundation of this faith that they keep referring to?

the old quakers held that you had know things "experimentally . . ." a concept we would call "experientially" these days, in order to have any kind oof belief.

you had to experience things yourself in order to believe them, and god was not excluded. books, old myths, and things people told you that they had experienced thaemselves were all useful, but could not substitute for actual personal revelation. quakerism spread throughout england pretty quick on this basis, but over the centuries faded out.

the experiences were often called "conviction" and it meant what it sounded like, not a pleasant thing.

today, quakers sgenerally don't describe things they experience, but rather things they would like to have experienced, as justification for faith. didn't work for me. i had belief for a while on what i thouught was experience, but over time i decided i was mistaken.



Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?

Randy

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Re: Dominionists in the United States
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2020, 01:15:03 AM »
They tell me that in order to believe; I must have "faith"............Really?   WTF is the foundation of this faith that they keep referring to?
Faith = wishful dreaming. Like No One said, "Faith replaces thought."

I was once told that I had to have the Holy Spirit in me in order to understand the Bible. I asked how am I supposed to do that to which he opened his Bible and started quoting scripture. Um, I can't understand anything you are saying because I don't have the Holy Spirit. Good day.

The exchange didn't go quite that way. It was a little more elaborate than that but that was the gist of it.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

Recusant

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Re: Dominionists in the United States
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2020, 04:56:56 AM »
They tell me that in order to believe; I must have "faith"............Really?   WTF is the foundation of this faith that they keep referring to?
Faith = wishful dreaming. Like No One said, "Faith replaces thought."

I was once told that I had to have the Holy Spirit in me in order to understand the Bible. I asked how am I supposed to do that to which he opened his Bible and started quoting scripture. Um, I can't understand anything you are saying because I don't have the Holy Spirit. Good day.

The exchange didn't go quite that way. It was a little more elaborate than that but that was the gist of it.

It would be swiftly modified to "proper" understanding if the unbeliever reports having read the Bible and coming to a different view of it. Maybe a Holy Ghost sized hole in a person's consciousness is helpful--the desire to make a connection with the divine. On the other hand, wanting to believe doesn't always work, apparently.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken