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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again

Recusant

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #345 on: August 19, 2020, 10:12:39 PM »
Hello again :grin:

I have a question regarding "sooner" and "earlier".

Would you say something like:

"Loss of memory precision occurs earlier in adolescent males compared to females" or "loss of memory precision occurs sooner in adolescent males compared to females" :notsure:

The idea is that males lose memory precision at around 14 days while females at around 28 days. Half the time.

Either works but I prefer 'earlier' in this context.

I agree with Tank. In this context sooner and earlier are synonymous. That isn't always the case. Here they're adverbs, but earlier can also be used as an adjective, while sooner cannot: "I wrote this post earlier" works, but "I wrote this post sooner" does not.

I also agree with Tank's stylistic choice--to me earlier sounds better in the sentence.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 10:32:52 PM by Recusant »
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Bluenose

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #346 on: August 21, 2020, 10:19:34 AM »
Yeah, what these ^^^^ guys said.
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #347 on: August 21, 2020, 05:52:09 PM »
Thanks, guys!
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #348 on: August 31, 2020, 10:42:44 PM »
Positive symptomatic patients and Symptomatic positive patients, which is correct for a patient that tested positive and is symptomatic :notsure: 

I'm going to risk a guess and say it's the first option. But I'm not sure.
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



Davin

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #349 on: August 31, 2020, 11:19:34 PM »
Neither of those work for me for clarity. I'd say something like "Symptomatic patients that have tested positive."
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

xSilverPhinx

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #350 on: September 01, 2020, 12:32:21 AM »
Neither of those work for me for clarity. I'd say something like "Symptomatic patients that have tested positive."

 :thumbsup:
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



Recusant

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #351 on: September 01, 2020, 02:48:36 AM »
I agree with Davin--clarity requires explicit wording. Further musings by me below may be regarded as superfluous.  :blue smiley:

Regarding order, there may be a convention in medical writing, and I'll look for examples, but off the top of my head, I'd look at it as follows: Symptoms generally precede testing, chronologically. Of course that's not always the case, but in a clinical setting I'd think it usually is.

Later: Looking through Google Scholar, I found examples in which symptomatic precedes positive when they're used together. See for instance the following title of a paper in Acta Neuropathologica:

"Investigation on the expression of major histocompatibility complex class II and cytokines and detection of HIV-1 DNA within brains of asymptomatic and symptomatic HIV-1-positive patients"

One from JAMA Surgery:

"Meta-analysis of Cholecystectomy in Symptomatic Patients With Positive Hepatobiliary Iminodiacetic Acid Scan Results Without Gallstones"

Admittedly I didn't do an extensive search, but I didn't find any examples of positive preceding symptomatic.

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hermes2015

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #352 on: September 01, 2020, 04:38:05 AM »
Symptomatically-positive patients?
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Recusant

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #353 on: September 01, 2020, 05:57:24 AM »
A hyphen makes it a single concept.* Therefore "symptomatically-positive" means essentially that the patient has symptoms; "positive" is redundant. In the context we're dealing with I believe that "positive" refers to test results.

* "When you connect words with the hyphen, you make it clear to readers that the words work together as a unit of meaning."  (source)
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hermes2015

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #354 on: September 01, 2020, 08:41:42 AM »
A hyphen makes it a single concept.* Therefore "symptomatically-positive" means essentially that the patient has symptoms; "positive" is redundant. In the context we're dealing with I believe that "positive" refers to test results.

* "When you connect words with the hyphen, you make it clear to readers that the words work together as a unit of meaning."  (source)

Thanks, Recusant.
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Bluenose

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #355 on: September 01, 2020, 12:58:53 PM »
Of the two options I would go with the second.  A positive patient may be symptomatic or asymptomatic.  I would prefer a comma in there Symptomatic, positive patients. However I agree that a more explicit wording would be a good idea.
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #356 on: September 01, 2020, 01:24:23 PM »
Thanks guys! :grin:


... A positive patient may be symptomatic or asymptomatic...

Adjective order in English really jumbles my head (too much interference with Portuguese) but that makes sense. :thumbsup:
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



Bluenose

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Re: Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #357 on: September 02, 2020, 01:54:31 AM »
Thanks guys! :grin:


... A positive patient may be symptomatic or asymptomatic...

Adjective order in English really jumbles my head (too much interference with Portuguese) but that makes sense. :thumbsup:

The thing is native English speakers use an unwritten rule for the order of adjectives, using them out of order sounds odd.  Most people do this, but could not explain how they arrived at the order.

This link may help (or make it even more confusing.)
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Recusant

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #358 on: September 02, 2020, 06:53:28 AM »
A hyphen makes it a single concept.* Therefore "symptomatically-positive" means essentially that the patient has symptoms; "positive" is redundant. In the context we're dealing with I believe that "positive" refers to test results.

* "When you connect words with the hyphen, you make it clear to readers that the words work together as a unit of meaning."  (source)

Thanks, Recusant.

Apologies. I'm an inveterate reader of style manuals and usage references. I don't think that's made my writing any more readable, but it does show up in less optimal ways on occasion.  :-\

Most recently I treated myself to the British edition of Dreyer's English, which I thought was a genuine delight.  :excuse:
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Tank

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #359 on: September 02, 2020, 08:18:45 AM »
I'm with Recusant in that I used to read dictionaries for fun when I was a kid.
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