hello

[Tank]

Jeffrey I suggest you read the rules. It will prevent further misunderstandings on your part of what you can and can't do during your first 10 posts.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Do you see that if you say it's magic, you are saying it's fiction. Magic or supernatural are synonyms for "impossible" which defined as something that can only exist in fiction. If you're saying it's fiction. Christians say it's magic, so Christians say it's fiction. The Christians don't just say God is magic. They say it's omnipotent, that it has infinite magic powers. That's the most magic thing anyone ever made up, in other words, the most impossible thing anyone ever made up. That's what the Christians themselves say. The religious people say there is no such thing as God. They say it's supernatural, so they say it's fiction. Believe the religious people when they say it's fiction.

It seems as though you are playing with words but not really saying anything true. Believers think their God is real, for the most part. You can't prove that they are actually atheists by twisting their words to fit your arguments.

[Tank]

Do you see that if you say it's magic, you are saying it's fiction. Magic or supernatural are synonyms for "impossible" which defined as something that can only exist in fiction. If you're saying it's fiction. Christians say it's magic, so Christians say it's fiction. The Christians don't just say God is magic. They say it's omnipotent, that it has infinite magic powers. That's the most magic thing anyone ever made up, in other words, the most impossible thing anyone ever made up. That's what the Christians themselves say. The religious people say there is no such thing as God. They say it's supernatural, so they say it's fiction. Believe the religious people when they say it's fiction.

It seems as though you are playing with words but not really saying anything true. Believers think their God is real, for the most part. You can't prove that they are actually atheists by twisting their words to fit your arguments.

Hear hear!

[Ali]

I believe in jeffreywinkler.  He's magic! (it makes sense if you actually bother to read that wall of text he wrote)

[DeterminedJuliet]

Do you see that if you say it's magic, you are saying it's fiction. Magic or supernatural are synonyms for "impossible" which defined as something that can only exist in fiction. If you're saying it's fiction. Christians say it's magic, so Christians say it's fiction. The Christians don't just say God is magic. They say it's omnipotent, that it has infinite magic powers. That's the most magic thing anyone ever made up, in other words, the most impossible thing anyone ever made up. That's what the Christians themselves say. The religious people say there is no such thing as God. They say it's supernatural, so they say it's fiction. Believe the religious people when they say it's fiction.

It seems as though you are playing with words but not really saying anything true. Believers think their God is real, for the most part. You can't prove that they are actually atheists by twisting their words to fit your arguments.

Yeah, this. You are doing some interesting (and contorted) word play, but your argument is pretty meaningless. Unless your next step is to argue that you're an "Atheist Christian" ( which seems to be all the vogue these days) I can't see why you would approach these ideas this way.

[Stevil]

The opposite of supernatural is natural.

I thought the opposite of natural was unnatural not supernatural.

I would say both, wouldn't you?

Supernatural is a silly word, it would be more specific to use the term non-material (e.g. magic)
But then again, even unnatural is a silly word.
Why do we term natural to be the product of non-human activities and unnatural to be the product of human activities, (particularly to do with the use of technology). Are humans not a part of nature? Are our activities not natural?

[Recusant]

I hope that you stick around, jefferywinkler; I think that some interesting discussions might be had, once you've got past the 10 post minimum.

First of all, I did not post spam. I posted a link to my own homepage. Spam is when a con artist sends you unsolicited email because they are trying to swindle you out of their money.

From Forum Rules (link):

NO SPAM: If in your first post on the forum you include a link, copy paste text, etc it will be considered spam and may be removed or partially removed by a moderator at their own discretion without notice.

Mmkay? As I said in my first reply, there is no rule against adding a link to your website in your profile information.

Second of all, Religious people do NOT say there is god is real!!!! Religious people say God is Fiction!!!

You find a genuinely religious person who actually says that their god is a fiction, and you'll let us know, won't you?

Now, to take a look at the fabulous series of assertions and special definitions with which you're attempting to support your thesis:

Let's say a religion person makes the following statement.

"I believe in God".

That single four word sentence contains two separate statements by the speaker that there is no such thing as God. Let's take these in turn.

"believe in"

Just by using the phrase "believe in", they are admitting they are talking about magic. In the English language, the phrase "believe in" intrinsically refers to magic.

Provide a citation from an English language authority who supports this definition to the exclusion of any other, and you will have some traction. In other words, it is possible to interpret the phrase "believe in" as referring to something taken on faith, but it has other meanings. Not only that, but just because something is taken on faith does not mean that it has to be magic. You can re-define words for your own special use to your heart's content, but you don't have the authority to tell the rest of us what the words of our language mean.

wordnetweb.princeton.edu : believe in

"have a firm conviction as to the goodness of something"

thefreedictionary.com : To believe in

"1. To believe that the subject of the thought (if a person or thing) exists, or (if an event) that it has occurred, or will occur.

"2. To believe that the character, abilities, and purposes of a person are worthy of entire confidence.

"3. To believe that the qualities or effects of an action or state are beneficial."

No one would use the word "believe in" unless they were talking about magic. No one would say they "believe in" Newtonian mechanics, electromagnetism, special relativity, general relativity, quantum mechanics, quantum field theory, QED, QCD, the Higgs mechanism, the Standard Model, grand unification, supersymmetry, string theory, or M-theory.

This is demonstrably untrue, jefferywinkler. "Why we believe in Special Relativity: Experimental Support for Einstein's Theory" by John S. Reid, Department of Physics, University of Aberdeen

On the other hand, someone might say they believe in psychics, astrology, ghosts, ESP, UFOs, the Bermuda Triangle, Atlantis, crop circles, crystal skulls, witchcraft, unicorns, faeries, vampires, or Santa Claus. The phrase "believe in" means you are talking about magic.

Apparently this is only the case in your personal dictionary, as can be seen above. I don't agree with your personal dictionary, jefferywinkler, and it seems that at least two authorities on usage don't agree with it, either.

Therefore, when a Christian uses the phrase "believe in", they are admitting they are talking about magic, so they are admitting they are talking about fiction.

Nope. The preceding section of your exposition has failed comprehensively.

"God"

The word "god" intrinsically refers to a supernatural being. Just by using the word "god", you are admitting that you are referring to a supernatural being.

I'm with you so far.

Let's say you went to a book store, and you browsed through the fantasy section. You picked up a novel set in a Dungeons and Dragons world. You flipped through it, and saw the name "The Great God Zandar, the High God of the Frost Giants". Is there any doubt in your mind that the author intended for that character to be a supernatural being? If the author did not intend for the character to be a supernatural being, he would not have called it a"god". The word "god" intrinsically refers to a supernatural being. Therefore, when a Christian uses the word "god", they are admitting they are referring to a supernatural being, so they are admitting they are talking about fiction.

You were doing all right, then you dived off the path into the brambles in the last eight words of that paragraph. You have decided that supernatural = fiction, and you think that you can dictate to the rest of the world that it's so. You don't have that power, jefferywinkler. There is no unequivocal scientific evidence which supports the idea of the existence of the supernatural, true, but then there's no unequivocal scientific evidence for the existence of microcosmic extra dimensions either. They haven't been conclusively ruled out, though, and neither has the supernatural. I don't happen to think that it exists, but I know that I can't bring any conclusive evidence to the rest of humanity in support of my position. If you can, jefferywinkler, you will be justly famous. If you think that you could, why are you wasting your time here?

Religious people actually think that a supernatural realm exists, whether you wish to acknowledge that fact or not. I don't know who you're expecting to convince with this specious line of semantic sophistry, but I'd be surprised if you've succeeded with anyone but yourself.

Therefore, if you hear a religious person use the phrase "I believe in God", that single four word sentence contains two separate admissions by the speaker that there is no such thing as God. In addition to that, the Judeo-Christian God is supposed to be not only magic, that's an understatement, they say it's omnipotent. They say it has infinite magic powers. That's the most magic thing anyone ever made up, in other words, the most impossible thing anyone ever made up. That's what the Christians themselves say.

I'm sorry to say that at this point in your post, I'm starting to lose any interest.

Everyone who posted a response to my original post admitted that what I said was true.

I posted a response to your original post, jefferywinkler, and I certainly did not admit that what you said was true. What is your motivation for writing such blatantly mendacious twaddle? I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post, because it seems to just build on the quicksand of your personal definition of terms. I read the whole thing, but really all that I heard was "glug glug glu. . . bip." It was sinking below the surface of being worthy of any attention, even as my eyes swept across it.

[joeoleson]

Wow!  Ok, so your saying that god doesn't exist--yer preaching to the choir.

Your also saying that by the very definition of the words Christians use their admitting to their understanding that none of their beliefs in god are real--the problem I have with this is your assumption that their understanding of what the words mean are the same as yours.  It doesn't matter if your using the words correctly and their not, they still cause mayhem and destruction around the globe on the premise of the existence of a being and place that will welcome them at the end of their life no matter what they do in the name of that being and place.

Personally, I think you make a moot point.