Happy Atheist Forum

General => History => Topic started by: highway17 on November 07, 2011, 09:58:32 PM

Title: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: highway17 on November 07, 2011, 09:58:32 PM
Response from a Catholic priest about the Crusades and the Inquisition.

"The Inquisition was intended not to convert people, but to find people who were outwardly claiming to be Christian but secretly practiced another religion, such as people who had become Christian outwardly, but who were still secretly practicing anti-Messianic Judaism, Islam, or Albigensianism, this last being a religion claiming that there are two gods, one good and one evil. The inquisition was thus an attempt to protect the purity of the Christian community.

Also point out that the Protestants had a counter-inquisition that killed Catholics. Thousands of Catholics were killed in England alone after the Reformation struck there. The same thing was true in Ireland and other areas where the Reformation came. John Calvin, for instance, was known for burning people at the stake.

In addition, Protestants were the big witch-burners. Witch burning never caught on in Catholic countries. When the Spanish Inquisition examined the cases of reported witches, it almost invariably concluded that the charges were false and the accused were not guilty. But tens of thousands of supposed witches were burned at the stake, hanged, or drowned in Protestant countries, including the American colonies."
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Asmodean on November 07, 2011, 10:05:42 PM
Of course they say crusades and inquisition were good - Those were, after all, ways to please Yahweh the bloodthirsty.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Gawen on November 08, 2011, 12:19:44 AM
Gooooood grief...
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: highway17 on November 08, 2011, 12:25:51 AM
Excuse my French, but no shit they pretended to not be Christians (how they knew this is a good question.) How would you like it if I said "BE A CATHOLIC OR DIE!!"
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: DeterminedJuliet on November 08, 2011, 01:11:45 AM
what. the. fuck.
If you think the entire history of the Catholic faith was all rainbows and sunshine, you, my friend, are being willfully ignorant.
This isn't the most scholarly of sources, but you get the idea, http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm)

Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Too Few Lions on November 08, 2011, 01:18:29 PM
Never mind the Crusades, I'd love to know what that priest thinks of the laws of the early Christian emperors like Constantius, Theodosius and Justinian. How would he interpret edicts like;

‘It is decreed that in all places the temples should be closed at once, and after a general warning, the opportunity of sinning be taken away from the wicked. We decree also that we [the populace] shall cease from making sacrifices. And if anyone has committed such a crime, let him be stricken with the avenging sword. And we decree that the property of the one executed shall be claimed by the city, and that rulers of the provinces be punished in the same way, if they neglect to punish such crimes.’ (Theodosian Code 16.10.4)

I guess it was ok to murder pagans because they worshipped the wrong gods  ::) It's nice to know that Catholic priests can choose to ignore the millions of non-Catholics that the Church has murdered over the centuries!
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: cncracer on June 25, 2012, 07:45:24 PM
Death of non-catholic has never been a problem for the Catholic Church. The Church is without a doubt the most violent of the Christian faith if you measure it by a body count. I don’t stop with the crusade but continue to the killings in WW II of not only Jews but also members of the Orthodox members, and anybody who recognized them for what they are. It still is continued as the Church pushed the 1999 Serbian issue killing thousands, and now in Africa with their No Condom rule are killing millions again. I have read the Christian faith has killed 250,000,000 people, I suspect 99% of those are linked to the Catholic Church. A sane world would charge them with crimes against humanity and close their religion down.   
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Sandra Craft on June 25, 2012, 07:58:24 PM
Response from a Catholic priest about the Crusades and the Inquisition.

(tap dancing etc. snipped because, really, same old-same old)


This embarrassing but knee-jerk defensiveness is common to people who find themselves on the wrong side of history.

Recently, some people in the American South defended slavery as "not that bad".  And the excuse of "they (the North) were mean to blacks too" has long been in use.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Firebird on June 25, 2012, 09:13:46 PM
Nice. Keep it coming priests. Every time you open your mouths, more Catholics get disgusted and leave.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: cncracer on June 25, 2012, 09:50:32 PM
Response from a Catholic priest about the Crusades and the Inquisition.

(tap dancing etc. snipped because, really, same old-same old)


This embarrassing but knee-jerk defensiveness is common to people who find themselves on the wrong side of history.

Recently, some people in the American South defended slavery as "not that bad".  And the excuse of "they (the North) were mean to blacks too" has long been in use.

It was not just the south with slaves. The christian bible said slavery was OK with their god; they used it to enslave millions of all cultures and races. This slavery was just the tip of the inhumanity they inflected on non-Catholics, and as late as 1999 were still trying to do.   
I was surprised to find how bad the Irish slave trade was. I never heard one word on it till about four years ago. Strange how history was change to make the RCC look less guilty of the atrocities we know they committed
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: markmcdaniel on June 26, 2012, 06:23:42 AM
Lets see the defense goes something like this.
Gentlemen of the jury the prosecution has said some nasty things that happen to be true about us. But, we say that it really is not as bad as it seems. We did not use the inquisition to force people to convert. We had other ways to do that. No what we used the Inquisition for was to track down and punish evil people. Like those who commit blasphemy and heresy as well as those people he refuse to really become members of our religion like we told them to. Now the opposition has said that we use torture to extract confessions. This is true, but, as we all know only the guilty confess and besides its for the good of their souls. And it is also true that we confiscate the money and property of those we find guilty, but, we do give some of it as a reward to the accuser and if they repent we let the guilty persons family keep some. Besides, the other team is nice to us and they are even worse to Witches and others than we are.
The more that I look at this the more it looks like an apologist trying to defend the indefensible. 
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: OldGit on June 26, 2012, 10:19:49 AM
"OK, OK, we killed 17½ million but they killed 18¼ million.  That makes us white as snow."
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Sweetdeath on June 26, 2012, 08:19:36 PM
Whatever makes you pieces of human garbage sleep better at night.  :( :(
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: markmcdaniel on June 26, 2012, 09:21:19 PM
"OK, OK, we killed 17½ million but they killed 18¼ million.  That makes us white as snow.
It also makes one of them on the side of the angels. I am just not sure which side.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Ali on June 27, 2012, 08:17:46 PM
Whatever makes you pieces of human garbage sleep better at night.  :( :(

Pieces of human garbage?  Meant to be thrown away?   :-\ 
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Sweetdeath on June 27, 2012, 08:36:34 PM
Whatever makes you pieces of human garbage sleep better at night.  :( :(

Pieces of human garbage?  Meant to be thrown away?   :-\ 

I don't particularly like the Vatican.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: OldGit on June 27, 2012, 08:44:19 PM
^ it's probably not too keen on you, either.  ;)
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Sweetdeath on June 27, 2012, 08:45:25 PM
^ it's probably not too keen on you, either.  ;)


 ;D
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Asmodean on June 27, 2012, 08:56:34 PM
^ it's probably not too keen on you, either.  ;)


 ;D
Oh, for all you know, the pope has some seriously un-godly mags under his bed  ;D

...Probably full of choir boys, but still...  ???
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Sweetdeath on June 28, 2012, 06:25:45 AM
^ it's probably not too keen on you, either.  ;)


 ;D
Oh, for all you know, the pope has some seriously un-godly mags under his bed  ;D

...Probably full of choir boys, but still...  ???

XD Creepy
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: OldGit on June 28, 2012, 09:41:03 AM
Can't you just see it - rank after rank of juicy choirboys in very tight leather shorts, goose-stepping past the Vatican balcony.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: markmcdaniel on June 28, 2012, 02:19:05 PM
Can't you just see it - rank after rank of juicy choirboys in very tight leather shorts, goose-stepping past the Vatican balcony.
I probably thank you for putting that insight in to Vatican porn in to my virgin sailor's mind.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Beachdragon on June 28, 2012, 06:23:29 PM
Really, the original quote from the priest ought to finish with this, "And so therefore, in conclusion, the Catholic and Protestant churches, as a whole, ought to be abolished for all their violent agenda."
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Sweetdeath on June 29, 2012, 01:47:55 AM
Really, the original quote from the priest ought to finish with this, "And so therefore, in conclusion, the Catholic and Protestant churches, as a whole, ought to be abolished for all their violent agenda."

If only.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Hector Valdez on July 14, 2012, 04:38:24 PM
I am a bit embarrassed by the church's response. I would have expected more logic from the tongue of a learned man. As was par for the course in those days, everything was less pleasant. The biggest current obstacle is the claim of infallibility.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: markmcdaniel on July 15, 2012, 04:22:33 AM
I am a bit embarrassed by the church's response. I would have expected more logic from the tongue of a learned man. As was par for the course in those days, everything was less pleasant. The biggest current obstacle is the claim of infallibility.
With out the claim of infallibility the Catholic Church has nothing to prop up the authority of its institutions.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 16, 2012, 04:21:28 PM
I am a bit embarrassed by the church's response. I would have expected more logic from the tongue of a learned man. As was par for the course in those days, everything was less pleasant. The biggest current obstacle is the claim of infallibility.
With out the claim of infallibility the Catholic Church has nothing to prop up the authority of its institutions.

Claiming infallibility is too dangerous - can go horribly wrong. Like what happened when they were on a collision course with Galileo. They've become a bit smarter and as less quick to add their uninformed opinions in things they demonstrably know close to nothing about.

Scratch that, they haven't really learnt all that much since Galileo.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: McQ on July 16, 2012, 05:20:33 PM
Since this oldish thread has popped back up, I wanted to ask if anyone had bothered to verify the OP's claim that it came from a catholic priest. Has anyone done that?

We like to think we are good at separating BS from legitimate stuff, but my quick search showed that it came, at least in part, from an anonymous person on a catholic web site: http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/how-can-i-defend-the-church-against-the-inquisition

What worries me is that so many people have commented and then added to this as if it has been backed by the catholic church, the vatican, the pope, etc. without a single person bothering to do some fact-checking.

Again, my quick check shows the following, from a legitimate catholic site, and clearly states that the church does not condone the Inquisition's practices:

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0029.html

Playing devil's advocate here for the sake of reminding people that the road goes both ways when it comes to making claims and accusations. I'm not defending the catholic church, but making a point about our actions here when it comes to taking a questionable post and running with it without checking for accuracy first.


Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: markmcdaniel on July 16, 2012, 05:48:47 PM
Since this oldish thread has popped back up, I wanted to ask if anyone had bothered to verify the OP's claim that it came from a catholic priest. Has anyone done that?

We like to think we are good at separating BS from legitimate stuff, but my quick search showed that it came, at least in part, from an anonymous person on a catholic web site: http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/how-can-i-defend-the-church-against-the-inquisition

What worries me is that so many people have commented and then added to this as if it has been backed by the catholic church, the vatican, the pope, etc. without a single person bothering to do some fact-checking.

Again, my quick check shows the following, from a legitimate catholic site, and clearly states that the church does not condone the Inquisition's practices:

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0029.html

Playing devil's advocate here for the sake of reminding people that the road goes both ways when it comes to making claims and accusations. I'm not defending the catholic church, but making a point about our actions here when it comes to taking a questionable post and running with it without checking for accuracy first.



Your right the original post may play into our prejudices a little to well. I usually read the originating article and this time I did not notice the lack of a link in this case. Oops.
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: Firebird on July 17, 2012, 10:36:34 PM
Since this oldish thread has popped back up, I wanted to ask if anyone had bothered to verify the OP's claim that it came from a catholic priest. Has anyone done that?

We like to think we are good at separating BS from legitimate stuff, but my quick search showed that it came, at least in part, from an anonymous person on a catholic web site: http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/how-can-i-defend-the-church-against-the-inquisition

What worries me is that so many people have commented and then added to this as if it has been backed by the catholic church, the vatican, the pope, etc. without a single person bothering to do some fact-checking.

Again, my quick check shows the following, from a legitimate catholic site, and clearly states that the church does not condone the Inquisition's practices:

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0029.html

Playing devil's advocate here for the sake of reminding people that the road goes both ways when it comes to making claims and accusations. I'm not defending the catholic church, but making a point about our actions here when it comes to taking a questionable post and running with it without checking for accuracy first.




Thanks, you are absolutely right that we shouldn't have assumed.
Of course, the Vatican still sucks, but we shouldn't assume :)
Title: Re: Catholics say the Crusades and the Inquisition were a good thing
Post by: McQ on July 18, 2012, 01:48:34 PM
Since this oldish thread has popped back up, I wanted to ask if anyone had bothered to verify the OP's claim that it came from a catholic priest. Has anyone done that?

We like to think we are good at separating BS from legitimate stuff, but my quick search showed that it came, at least in part, from an anonymous person on a catholic web site: http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/how-can-i-defend-the-church-against-the-inquisition

What worries me is that so many people have commented and then added to this as if it has been backed by the catholic church, the vatican, the pope, etc. without a single person bothering to do some fact-checking.

Again, my quick check shows the following, from a legitimate catholic site, and clearly states that the church does not condone the Inquisition's practices:

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0029.html

Playing devil's advocate here for the sake of reminding people that the road goes both ways when it comes to making claims and accusations. I'm not defending the catholic church, but making a point about our actions here when it comes to taking a questionable post and running with it without checking for accuracy first.




Thanks, you are absolutely right that we shouldn't have assumed.
Of course, the Vatican still sucks, but we shouldn't assume :)

You can definitely assume that.  ;D