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Getting To Know You => Laid Back Lounge => Topic started by: billy rubin on September 08, 2020, 05:09:44 PM

Title: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on September 08, 2020, 05:09:44 PM
back from the races. slept in and the wide was of to work early in th eam.

so i took my two younger sons to high school this morning. ones is a senior, the other a freshman. asked em what their new classes were.

calculus, metanoia, algebra 2, some other stuff

told em to ask their teacher what calculus was used for. said there was no reason to learn it if they weren't also being taught applications. anyway the conversation moved on to trig tables and i explained how i used to used to have to look up sines and cosines and logarhythms so forth in a little book.

number two son said, yeah, i've heard of that. there's a page from one of those inside the back cover of our book just so you can see what they used to look like. they say, try it out.

i said, i didn't have a calculator until i was mostly through high school. we used slide rules if we needed to do something that didn't require all the decimal places. said they used to make nice circular slide rules if you were a hoity toity engineer, and if you had money you could get the really nice bamboo and ivory versions.

number three son said,

what's a slide rule?

i said, look em up on eBay.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Tank on September 08, 2020, 06:38:18 PM
My year at school was the last to be taught how to use a slide rule and the first to be allowed to use a calculator.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Dark Lightning on September 08, 2020, 07:54:18 PM
We had that giant 6 foot long slide rule hanging in our math class. I graduated High School in '70. Served in the US Navy, '72-'76. We used slide rules. When I started uni in '77 I got a Texas Instruments SR-40. That was styling! But it wouldn't even do hyperbolic trig. :( When my eldest son needed a calculator ~y2k, we bought him one for less than $100 that would do symbolic calculus! Crazy.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: xSilverPhinx on September 08, 2020, 08:18:20 PM
I had to google 'slide rule'...looks complicated. :bigspecs:
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Tank on September 08, 2020, 08:47:33 PM
I had to google 'slide rule'...looks complicated. :bigspecs:

it was!
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Icarus on September 08, 2020, 08:56:23 PM
I still have a K&E log/log deci-trig slide rule in a nice leather case. I do not use it of course. What the hell I have probably forgotten how to use it.  My Casio fx300 calculator cost $12.  It can do things unheard of at the time I bought the slide rule.   My more advanced Casio fx9600GII  can do matrix math, spread sheets, conics, statistics, graph equations and find precise locations on the curves, and some other stuff that I do not even know how to do. Yikes, it is so much smarter than me that I am truly humbled. 

The world has passed me by. It has been an interesting, sometimes fun, ride however.

Billy, assure your sons that calculus has many practical uses. Calculate instantaneous piston velocity for example. Calculate the dimensions of a a box that uses the least amount of material to hold a given volume of ingredients..and much much more.... Trig is essential for many crafts.  A roofer uses trig, as do carpenters, plumbers, and quilt makers too. Either of these courses of instruction is worth studying if for no other purpose than to expand the borders of ones mind.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Dark Lightning on September 08, 2020, 09:46:24 PM
One underpinning of mathematics is clear reasoning. One can't just skate around a proof. Buckling down and working out problems does wonders for one's thinking ability. Once the headache of forming all those new neurons abates, that is. :lol:
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on September 09, 2020, 12:27:24 AM
I had to google 'slide rule'...looks complicated. :bigspecs:

lol
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Dark Lightning on September 09, 2020, 01:10:59 AM
The slide rule is not hard to master. The scales for multiplication and division are logarithmic, so one merely has to line up the numbers to be manipulated, and read off the answer. Adding or subtracting logarithms corresponds to multiplication and division. Enough knowledge of arithmetic to know whether a number will carry to the next higher or lower power of ten is needed, but that's a basic thing everyone should already know. You are only going to get 3 significant digits, but that's good enough for a lot of calculations we need(ed) to do.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on September 09, 2020, 08:19:24 PM
back from the races. slept in and the wide was of to work early in th eam.

so i took my two younger sons to high school this morning. ones is a senior, the other a freshman. asked em what their new classes were.

calculus, metanoia, algebra 2, some other stuff

told em to ask their teacher what calculus was used for. said there was no reason to learn it if they weren't also being taught applications. anyway the conversation moved on to trig tables and i explained how i used to used to have to look up sines and cosines and logarhythms so forth in a little book.

number two son said, yeah, i've heard of that. there's a page from one of those inside the back cover of our book just so you can see what they used to look like. they say, try it out.

i said, i didn't have a calculator until i was mostly through high school. we used slide rules if we needed to do something that didn't require all the decimal places. said they used to make nice circular slide rules if you were a hoity toity engineer, and if you had money you could get the really nice bamboo and ivory versions.

number three son said,

what's a slide rule?

i said, look em up on eBay.

Metanoia??  That’s a Greek word meaning repentance. What kind of class is that?
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Randy on September 10, 2020, 01:27:08 AM
Slide rules - my father owned one but I used a pocket calculator in school and later a TRS-80 Model I Level I 4K RAM to do some graphing for me so that I could copy it onto paper.

I missed the days of slide rules but not by much it seems. I graduated high school in 1979.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Bluenose on September 10, 2020, 02:57:23 AM
When I was flying we still used circular slide rules to do time and distance vs speed calculations as well as fuel consumption calculations etc.  On the back of the slide rule was a navigation computer that allowed you to calculate drift and the heading to steer to make a desired track made good.  I have no idea whether these devices are still used today, but they were quick, accurate, and easy to use.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on September 10, 2020, 05:35:50 PM

Metanoia??  That’s a Greek word meaning repentance. What kind of class is that?

i don't know.

it's the metanoia class. my sons go to a liberal quaker secondary school, one with "deep quaker roots . . . " which really means, "deep quaker advertizing."

i'll ask them. i believe it's just a pretentious name for general humanities.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: xSilverPhinx on September 15, 2020, 09:23:31 PM
One thing's for sure, younger people nowadays don't know what it's like to have dial-up internet and not having access to the landline and internet at the same time. Or, OR! Talking into that huge brick of a Nokia cellphone, without access to internet. They don't know what it's like to have to rewind tapes with a pencil...I daresay such an activity builds character!  :P No wonder young people are so impatient nowadays!  :geezer!:
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Randy on September 16, 2020, 12:22:35 AM
Or they had to think about BPS and a difference in cost if using one that was higher, like on CompuServe. It wasn't the internet but it was a dial up service. I am not sure the younger generation knows what a modem is.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on September 16, 2020, 02:02:12 AM
my first cellphone waz a landline numbrr tgat went to radio tiwers that broadcast it over the open frequencies. no confidentiality anywhere in the texas panhandle

does anybody remember modems that rean at 48 baud?

thats 0.048k i think
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Tank on September 21, 2020, 09:46:48 AM
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Randy on September 22, 2020, 12:51:34 AM
How well I remember that sound. Does anyone remember BBSs (Bulletin Board Systems)?
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Tank on September 22, 2020, 02:07:15 PM
How well I remember that sound. Does anyone remember BBSs (Bulletin Board Systems)?

On TV?
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Tom62 on September 22, 2020, 08:18:32 PM
my first cellphone waz a landline numbrr tgat went to radio tiwers that broadcast it over the open frequencies. no confidentiality anywhere in the texas panhandle

does anybody remember modems that rean at 48 baud?

thats 0.048k i think
.
My first modern was 1,200 baud. That was in the early eighties. Crazy enough, I still know how to program those darned things with the Heyes command set.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on September 22, 2020, 09:23:55 PM
i remember 1200 baud. it was a breathtaking expansion from the super-fast 600-baud units the guys with the big grants had.

you know, the early 80s are 40 years ago now.

when i was born, 40 years before meant 1916.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2020, 01:13:06 PM
I don't know what you guys are talking about...all I know was my first cellphone was a Nokia brick.

(https://img.playbuzz.com/image/upload/ar_1.5,c_crop/q_auto:good,f_auto,fl_lossy,w_640,c_limit,e_sharpen/v1523396819/ailfiuykygvhfkxvnddg.png)

Not much it could do.

I also recall having a yellow walkman. Which was then replaced by a blue discman. After that, a silver 128mb mp3 player. Good times. :tellmemore:

Feels like I've seen so much happen.  ;D
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on October 12, 2020, 04:24:43 PM
i was in a bar in guatemala once, a long time ago, and they still had once of these as the working house phone

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftooltiques.net%2FSixBitLGSJan2015%2FMay29th15LGS%2520042.JPG&hash=ef7454803500fd0006b409e0cdb1facdd61bb2b7)

never saw one before or since
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Davin on October 12, 2020, 09:41:17 PM
Looks like the fella wants a kiss.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Randy on October 14, 2020, 05:17:23 PM
It seems that nobody remembers the bulletin board systems. I'd spend hours, unless my connection was lost, surfing those looking for shareware and freeware stuff. Usually a person had only one hour per day so you had to make that hour count.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 14, 2020, 11:44:03 PM
Looks like the fella wants a kiss.

:lol:

I also saw a face there!  ;D
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 14, 2020, 11:45:09 PM
It seems that nobody remembers the bulletin board systems. I'd spend hours, unless my connection was lost, surfing those looking for shareware and freeware stuff. Usually a person had only one hour per day so you had to make that hour count.

One hour a day?  :o How did people survive at all?  :P
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 15, 2020, 12:37:30 AM
It seems that nobody remembers the bulletin board systems. I'd spend hours, unless my connection was lost, surfing those looking for shareware and freeware stuff. Usually a person had only one hour per day so you had to make that hour count.

One hour a day?  :o How did people survive at all?  :P

I lived in a small town in southern California as a child, and beyond hiking the hills in the baking desert sun, there were few amenities. At least it was a dry heat. The nearest grocery store was about 8 miles away. For entertainment, we read encyclopedias. :lol: We didn't even have air conditioning in our house, and wouldn't have been able to afford to run it if we had. So, when it was 100F in the shade, we didn't run around outside. There wasn't an internet in the '50s and '60s. Or '70s...

I'm not complaining, just laying out some [ancient] history. :P I'd have to say that having to look things up in an encyclopedia at least made one better informed than visiting Urban Dictionary. It wasn't as deep as wikipedia, either, but you could pretty much trust that written content.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Icarus on October 15, 2020, 02:16:22 AM
Nostalgia appreciated DL.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 15, 2020, 03:22:39 AM
Nostalgia appreciated DL.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on October 15, 2020, 05:37:28 PM
nostalgia? luxury!


everyone ^^^here was a genius. but who was the one on th eleft?

shit fire

he was tim brooke taylor, and he died this year of covid19.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Randy on October 16, 2020, 05:12:47 PM
It seems that nobody remembers the bulletin board systems. I'd spend hours, unless my connection was lost, surfing those looking for shareware and freeware stuff. Usually a person had only one hour per day so you had to make that hour count.

One hour a day?  :o How did people survive at all?  :P

I lived in a small town in southern California as a child, and beyond hiking the hills in the baking desert sun, there were few amenities. At least it was a dry heat. The nearest grocery store was about 8 miles away. For entertainment, we read encyclopedias. :lol: We didn't even have air conditioning in our house, and wouldn't have been able to afford to run it if we had. So, when it was 100F in the shade, we didn't run around outside. There wasn't an internet in the '50s and '60s. Or '70s...

I'm not complaining, just laying out some [ancient] history. :P I'd have to say that having to look things up in an encyclopedia at least made one better informed than visiting Urban Dictionary. It wasn't as deep as wikipedia, either, but you could pretty much trust that written content.
Encyclopedias, I remember those. Does anyone make them anymore?
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 16, 2020, 07:30:04 PM
It seems that nobody remembers the bulletin board systems. I'd spend hours, unless my connection was lost, surfing those looking for shareware and freeware stuff. Usually a person had only one hour per day so you had to make that hour count.

One hour a day?  :o How did people survive at all?  :P

I lived in a small town in southern California as a child, and beyond hiking the hills in the baking desert sun, there were few amenities. At least it was a dry heat. The nearest grocery store was about 8 miles away. For entertainment, we read encyclopedias. :lol: We didn't even have air conditioning in our house, and wouldn't have been able to afford to run it if we had. So, when it was 100F in the shade, we didn't run around outside. There wasn't an internet in the '50s and '60s. Or '70s...

I'm not complaining, just laying out some [ancient] history. :P I'd have to say that having to look things up in an encyclopedia at least made one better informed than visiting Urban Dictionary. It wasn't as deep as wikipedia, either, but you could pretty much trust that written content.
Encyclopedias, I remember those. Does anyone make them anymore?

Encyclopedia Britannica quit publishing paper encyclopedias in 2012 due to the internet and CD-ROMS. I had to look that up. That's a lot of shelf space to gain.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on October 16, 2020, 09:26:40 PM
old encyclopedias are cheap and wonderful though.

no better way to get a snapshot of science and culture for a given year.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Randy on October 19, 2020, 06:52:47 PM
I agree with Billy. I still remember some of the pages of the planets and Pluto being one with it unknown as to whether it had any moons. I think Neptune had two and Uranus had five at the time. How things change over the years.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Tank on October 30, 2020, 09:48:48 AM
To youngsters tapping your wrist to ask the time means nothing.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2020, 02:05:45 PM
my uncle once told his whining grandson

you sound like a broken record

his grandson asked

whats a record?

^^^this was almist 30 years ago. if you remember when records could actually break--into piecez-- much less what they were-- you really are a fossil

Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Asmodean on October 30, 2020, 02:49:26 PM
Sigh

Yes, they were them flat, round things, what were played with a needle-apparatus. Is The Asmo a audiophile? No, just... Old. :violin:
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2020, 04:54:21 PM
lol
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: Tom62 on October 31, 2020, 04:05:34 PM
Sigh

Yes, they were them flat, round things, what were played with a needle-apparatus. Is The Asmo a audiophile? No, just... Old. :violin:

These things are becoming popular again. A friend of mine recently bought this floating one:
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: hermes2015 on November 01, 2020, 03:18:59 AM
There is a huge band of fanatical followers of vinyl music and the associated playback equipment. I am firmly in the digital camp, with all my music in lossless formats like DSD or FLAC; I am far too lazy to faff about with 100 kg esoteric turntables.
Title: Re: generation gap
Post by: No one on November 01, 2020, 12:14:21 PM
I am firmly in the digital camp as well. I am a huge fan of being able to bring my music wherever I go, and being able to here whatever song I want to hear, the moment I want to hear it. That being said, there is an aspect to analog that digital cannot reproduce.