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General => Politics => Topic started by: MadBomr101 on April 23, 2020, 06:18:01 PM

Title: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: MadBomr101 on April 23, 2020, 06:18:01 PM
His base doesn't care that he lies, that he's corrupt, that he's racist, that his entire network of friends and accomplices are criminals, that there's credible potential that he's a traitor who's compromised by a hostile foreign power, that he's objectively stupid and can't string together a coherent thought -- nothing matters to them. Nothing whatsoever. Now with his epic mishandling of the COVID-19 crisis the conservative propaganda machine is working overtime to lay the blame for Trump's serial bungling at someone else's door and, of course, it's the Dems and Obama. Protecting Trump from his own stupidity and incompetence is a full-time job.

This is a sickness of some kind and I'm going to take the lead and give it a name -- Trump Supporter Disorder -- a neurological condition characterized by willful ignorance, selective amnesia, misplaced hero worship and an overall political dumbassery that affects conservatives and for which there is no known cure.

There is literally nothing their hero can do that will convince those who suffer from TSD that Trump is anything but a brilliant man and a great leader based on nothing at all to support this idea and ignoring a mountain of evidence against it.

In that regard TSD is a lot like a religion with Trump as their Jesus -- a really stupid, corrupt, deceitful, misogynist, racist, vulgar, Jesus.

Post 4 of 25
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Dark Lightning on April 23, 2020, 07:50:21 PM
And his supporters call it Trump Derangement Syndrome when some "socialist" comments about something he did that is illegal, immoral or fattening. OK, I made up the fattening part.  ;D I do know some people who are disappointed by what they got when they voted for him. I was out walking my dog, and chatted a bit with one of the neighbors. He absolutely detests Governor Newsom (I'm in California) and he started in ranting about not being allowed to ride his motorcycle. There is no such restriction; he just needs something to complain about, I guess. I'm hoping that enough people are disgusted with the chump that they vote the other way next time.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 23, 2020, 08:50:28 PM
I too call the irrational and seemingly instinctual opposition to anything and everything the president does “Trump Derangement Syndrome.”

I think there is a problem, and it could have been mitigated if pundits of clickbait like Rachel Maddow didn’t slowly go bonkers right in front of the nation’s eyes. Most of the higher profile talking heads for Trump-side seem stable (as in, as they have ‘always’ been) by comparison, but the Democrats latch onto any scrap of news which might and could and maybe may cast the president in a bad light.

I’m not a Trump supporter, although I have warmed up to him over the years, but I too see an endless stream of outrage coming from just one side of the political chasm, to a point where words which once carried a considerable punch, like for instance “racist” or “liar” are now little more than fluff.

Also, Russia conspiracy? Really? Proof, or it didn’t happen.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Dark Lightning on April 23, 2020, 10:19:51 PM
Perhaps I read it in one of your posts? I get around, so maybe not. In other news, a Republican led thorough investigation has concluded that Putin did indeed cause interference in the last presidential election. Republicans are his homeys, but still agree with the intelligence community's assessment, and they further booed (my words) Barr for his blatant lying in the report he released.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 23, 2020, 10:40:58 PM
It doesn’t really matter who does a “political” investigation - in the end, the conclusions are long-since drawn along ideological/special interest lines.

What did the president demonstrably do, which amounts to unlawful contact with foreign representatives?
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Dark Lightning on April 23, 2020, 11:12:12 PM
I don't have access to the report. Broad brush from what I've seen over those years is many of his people meeting with Russians who were claiming they could help him win. Precise details, I don't have.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: MadBomr101 on April 23, 2020, 11:30:45 PM
I too call the irrational and seemingly instinctual opposition to anything and everything the president does “Trump Derangement Syndrome.”

That's fine. Mine addresses the irrational and deluded approval of anything and everything the president does.

Plus mine rhymes.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 24, 2020, 10:53:25 AM
Oh, I don't necessarily disagree - my reply was to the sum total of the thread before it, so, it's a bit of a patchwork.

There are certainly crazies in the Trump camp, and plenty of them, who think that his farts don't smell, but there are also people who distrust anything they hear about the president exactly because of the reason I described. When you ask those people how they are not outraged when the president is alleged to have said X or done Y, or why they now/still support him, those are the very talking heads they are likely to attribute it to, and justly so.

I used to bloody watch some of their shows, not being firmly in their camp, but still aligning with their general views. Now, though... How the hell can I trust anything that comes out of Rachel Maddow's mouth, or Bill Maher's, or CNN's, on the subject of Donald J. Trump the man OR the office of the President of the United States? Of course, being a anally-retentive sort of fellow, I realize that opinion-givers and news journalists are two different professions, so I wouldn't take the former at their word easily anyways, but that's me - then there's the rest of the United States and the World.

I think there is an interesting question being implied here; how many Trump-crazies are that into the president as a reaction to the opposition? Then, how many of the Trump-deranged are that against the president as a reaction to his supporters? I don't think the numbers are huge, necessarily, but I do think that they are probably among the loudest on both sides.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on April 24, 2020, 02:17:55 PM
Here is an example.  Trump even exceeded his past idiotic statements yesterday when he suggested that perhaps disinfectants such as Lysol could be introduced into the body.  The makers of Lysol felt it necessary to come out with a statement telling people not to drink or otherwise introduce Lysol into the body.  Why?  Because they know that some people take the Idiot in Chief seriously and would try what he suggested.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 24, 2020, 02:59:23 PM
Oh! Them...

Honestly, I find it difficult to mourn their long-time-coming passing.

As a philosopher (Actually, I believe it was Tim Pool, but then I also believe he's bald, so... Close enough) once said, Trump supporters take him seriously, but not literally. The Trump-deranged take him literally, but not seriously.

I somewhat doubt that a Trump-deranged person would do anything the president said, other than in protest, and if that's how they protest, then I refer you to the second line of text in this reply. Still, apparently, there is a third group; those who take the president seriously AND literally (And by inference, a fourth, which does neither)
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Dark Lightning on April 24, 2020, 03:57:36 PM
The concern I have is when the chump actually says something idiotic/crazy while I'm watching, and the crowd goes wild, I wonder what sort of filter they have. A couple of gals at my (suspended for the duration) carving class at the senior center actually delight in the fact that the chump says idiotic/crazy things, because, in their words, "It drives the liberals nuts!" The chump was recently (ca 3 weeks ago) interviewed (Face the Nation? I forget) where he said that if he was reelected that he would go after entitlements. Entitlements are Social Security and Medicare, for example, since we are entitled to them due to dutifully paying in our money over our working careers. These two were clucking away about the chump until I brought that up. It got pretty quiet (I'd venture to say that 90% of them voted for him, based on the conversations I hear), and then a couple of people popped off that that was their money. I merely pointed out that a vote for the chump this November means they know what to expect, and that those words about removing entitlements came right from the own boy's mouth.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 24, 2020, 05:28:40 PM
Well, if one’s priorities lie in triggering the Left, then that’s where one’s priorities lie. Personally, I do delight in it, but wouldn’t vote based on it.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: MadBomr101 on April 25, 2020, 02:01:57 PM
And the madness continues as over the last two days Trump has suggested that maybe injecting disinfectant -- that would be Clorox, Lysol, stuff like that -- and somehow getting light inside the body might do some good and wants his medical advisors to test these options

Lunacy like this is commonplace for Trump. The man is beyond just feeble-minded, he's a blithering imbecile with a room temperature IQ and this baboon is the goddamn president. He's not even qualified to be the night manage at a 7-11 and he's the leader of the entire U.S.?? 

Between the endless lies, the rampant corruption, the stunning immaturity, the mind bending stupidity and near daily scandals and fuck-ups the only reason he's still got a job is thanks entirely to a woefully corrupt Senate.

I wonder how many Trumpanzees will try injecting themselves with bleach now that their marmalade messiah has suggested it? If there was as much proof for God's existence as there is for Trump's lack of fitness for the office he holds, I'd start praying to Jesus for salvation right now.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 25, 2020, 06:14:27 PM
What were his exact words, though? Because you used the word "maybe" there, which is... Kind-of important.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: MadBomr101 on April 25, 2020, 07:37:57 PM
What were his exact words, though? Because you used the word "maybe" there, which is... Kind-of important.

No, it isn't remotely important because the lunacy isn't in any individual word, it's in the suggestion itself. Suggesting that we might want to try having disinfectants injected into out bodies as a medical solution along with getting sunlight inside us -- whatever the hell that means -- is the madness. Why would you get hung up on the semantics?

Trump, ostensibly a grown man with a college education, thinks we should be injected with scrubbing bubbles and sunbathe as a means of treating a global pandemic. This is the sort of thing you get when an addled mind goes off-script and starts spitballing the brainfarts that are crashing through his head at any given moment.

After the outrage hit, he went right to his default position of claiming he didn't mean it and that he was just being "sarcastic" which, as it always is, was his typical bullshit attempt to walk back yet another incredibly stupid thing he said.

Don't become a Trump apologist and try to find excuses for his incompetence and stupidity, just acknowledge he's unfit and he needs to go.

Here's a short report that sums it up nicely.

Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: No one on April 25, 2020, 07:57:24 PM
That colossal ass clown does have the aptitude to work a #2 pencil, much less anything as complicated as speech.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 25, 2020, 08:04:08 PM
No, it isn't remotely important because the lunacy isn't in any individual word, it's in the suggestion itself. Suggesting that we might want to try having disinfectants injected into out bodies as a medical solution along with getting sunlight inside us -- whatever the hell that means -- is the madness.
Why? (Bonus points for not using any information you have learned post-factum)

Quote
Why would you get hung up on the semantics?
Because they are of importance when what the president actually, literally said is being misrepresented by changing a word here or omitting one there.

Quote
Trump, ostensibly a grown man with a college education, thinks we should be injected with scrubbing bubbles and sunbathe as a means of treating a global pandemic. This is the sort of thing you get when an addled mind goes off-script and starts spitballing the brainfarts that are crashing through his head at any given moment.
...And if you need an example of precisely what I described above, look no further. At this point it is no longer semantics, but straight-out misrepresentation. Does the president indeed think that "we" "should" be "injected with scrubbing bubbles?" Did he say that?

Quote
After the outrage hit, he went right to his default position of claiming he didn't mean it and that he was just being "sarcastic" which, as it always is, was his typical bullshit attempt to walk back yet another incredibly stupid thing he said.
And yet plenty of people who voted for him and shall again have not stabbed themselves with the needle the moment he said, how did you put it again..? "I think you should be injected with scrubbing bubbles."

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Don't become a Trump apologist and try and find excuses for his incompetence and stupidity, just acknowledge he's unfit and needs to go.
I am not "finding excuses" for the president. He doesn't need me to defend him. I'm constructing arguments against your narrative, because it's flawed. Do better and I will probably agree with you.

Quote
Here's a short report that sums it up nicely.
Bad source.* (Appears to be a mass media channel. Does not list own sources.) although at least he didn't talk over the first seconds of the footage or the relevant bits later on. Those are important, are they not? Because either the president, as you put it, " thinks we should be injected with scrubbing bubbles and sunbathe as a means of treating a global pandemic," OR he thinks that maybe you can - maybe you can't. [because he's] not a doctor, and so he asks questions about it on live TV.

Do you honestly not see the factual difference between your statement about what the president said, and what he did say? Because he didn't call for consumer action here. At all. According to you, he did.

*The reporter here did not misrepresent what the president said - it's just a poor quality, edited source, when the actual footage is readily available.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Tom62 on April 25, 2020, 08:42:33 PM
What I heard Trump saying was, that he is not a doctor. I interprets that as, whatever Trump says next could be right or wrong. After that he wonders whether disinfectants or sunshine could have a positive effect and whether that should be investigated. I think that is a bad form of communication, because some people might misinterpreted these statements.   
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 25, 2020, 08:50:02 PM
 :this:

but then, Tom and I are notoriously-filthy alt-righters ;)

That goes straight to my first question, though. From my understanding, UV light works against microorganisms. Some sunlight is in the UV spectrum. So, does it not follow that 1+1=win? (I do have some intuitive understanding of why that isn't so, but how is the very posing of the question "madness?" If it's the arena in which it was asked that is "madness," then I disagree less, but that's not what was said.)
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: MadBomr101 on April 25, 2020, 09:20:02 PM
Asmo: I had started doing a point by point rebuttal of your post but after about 10 mins decided that would be wordy and ultimately fruitless. You support Trump and many Trump people will not be persuaded by any argument. In that regard it's a lot like arguing with Xians about their faith and we all know how pointless that typically is. So instead I'll just agree to disagree with your choice and let it go at that.

Besides, your vote for Trump will be cancelled out by my vote for Joe freakin' Biden.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: billy rubin on April 25, 2020, 09:43:48 PM
cnn is no friend of trump, but they posted both the statement he made to the press on thursday, and his retraction of it from friday. comparing his two speeches, he is clearly lying about the circumstances under which he claims he made the remarks sarcastically to a reporter. that isn't shown at all in the video of his actual speech, in which he directs all comments to birx, seriously, and suggesting that she told him they were going to test that, both UV and injecting disinfectant.

he turns to birx twice while talking about UV light and suggests, i think you said youre going to test that?

 the UV wavelengths used for sterilizing surfaces (which was the origin of his  UV information, i seem to recall) are too bright to use on living tissue. trump was repeating a garbled version of some sterilization procedures from a briefing he didn't attend, and which was read to him quickly before the press conference, i have read elsewhere.

after referring to illuminating the body from inside with UV, or maybe with heat, he turned to birx and said

and then i see the disinfectnt, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. and is there a way we might do that, by injection, inside, or, almost a cleaning. becaue you see it gets in th elungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. so it would be interesting to check that. so youre going to have to use medicl doctors. but it sounds it sounds interesting to me.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/24/donald-trump-sunlight-disinfectant-walk-back-lies-cooper-sot-vpx.cnn

cnn is no mnore reliable about trump than is fox. they both represent ideological endpoints with axes to grind, and both slant their reporting to further it.

i usually start with AP, skim reuters and UPI, then look at both CNN and fox to try to get a handle on the real events. but in this case the tape is unequivocal. he was serious thursday, and lied about it friday.

today he gave a 22-minute speech to the reporters (instead of the usual two hours) and then left without taking questions, for the first time.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 25, 2020, 10:07:18 PM
Asmo: I had started doing a point by point rebuttal of your post but after about 10 mins decided that would be wordy and ultimately fruitless.
Fair enough.

Quote
You support Trump and many Trump people will not be persuaded by any argument. In that regard it's a lot like arguing with Xians about their faith and we all know how pointless that typically is. So instead I'll just agree to disagree with your choice and let it go at that.
Actually, I do not support the president - nor do I oppose him, if for no other reason than the one provided in the response below. I find him... Adequate, as far as my own involvement is concerned. That said, this argument could be reversed with zero effort. I'm not the one pushing an agenda here, but rather responding to one. That said, I'm content with agreeing to disagree... Until next time. I simply cannot resist being baited by this variety of post - this, and identity politics. they call to me, and not in a good way.

Quote
Besides, your vote for Trump will be cancelled out by my vote for Joe freakin' Biden.
Nope. He's not my president to vote for. I have a king ;)
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Icarus on April 25, 2020, 11:58:21 PM
A common reason for our collective disdain for Trump, is that he insults our intelligence so frequently and seriously.  He is plainly a nasty man who has problems with his social skills.

Here's the thing. He tells transparent lies and seems to expect us to believe them.  Legions of us are rightfully insulted by his clearly evident presumption that we are not bright enough to know the difference between truth and horse shit.   We may be gullible in many ways but Trump has to
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: billy rubin on April 26, 2020, 12:22:17 AM
i dont think he knows hes lying. i think once he says something he believes it himself. he rwritez the previous day  in his head every 24 hours

that book published about him duri g the meuller hearings explained that hos lawyers wouldnt let him testify because he was mentally not capable of telling the truth and would contradict himzf.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Magdalena on April 26, 2020, 01:10:29 AM
... that hos lawyers wouldnt let him testify ...
I love your errors.
 :lol:
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Icarus on April 26, 2020, 01:14:10 AM
continued from above.........has to....improve his skills when telling bald faced and perfectly evident to the listener, damn lies. 

Then there is his behavior toward other people.  If he does not agree with the other person, that other person has a low IQ, or they are failing, or they eat shit with a dirty spoon.  Trump is famous for that sort of accusation against anyone who questions him.

Speaking of questioning............ During a press conference, if any reporter asks a question that Trump does not like or one for which he has no self agrandizing answer, he attacks the reporter and never answers the question. He is vicious toward the questioner telling him/her that they are dumb or incompetent or stupid.  Is it any wonder that a lot of the media people do not like the nasty man? 

How many of us can believe his claim that "I know more about ISIS than the generals"  He has also claimed to know more about drones than the people who build them.  He has proudly asserted, more than one time: "I am a stable genius".

There is much to dislike about this man.  His compulsive narcissism compels him to constantly remind us of how astoundingly wonderful, charitable, intelligent, influential, wealthy, incredibly popular, and compassionate that he is.

He is simply not a person that would be welcome at your bridge club, or your daughters graduation party. (especially not your daughters party  since he has made it clear that grabbing pussies is OK if you are a star like he is)   He is simply not the person that you want for a friend and for damned sure not for the leader of your nation. His constant claim that he is a superior individual has become less and less palatable.

If Rachael Maddow, Chris Hayes, Anderson Cooper, or any of the many other talking heads criticize or even ridicule him, He damned well deserves it.  He is a nasty man who has made some really dumb decisions about international relations, he has made some dumb and damaging decisions about international commerce, He has presided over a two trillion tax cut that predominantly advantages the wealthy.

"Promises made promises kept"  Bullshit that his acolytes spout  He promised the coal miners they would get their jobs back. He promised that his health care program, in the first year, would be "far better, and cost far less" than the evil Obama thing or the "failed" Medicare thing.

My president is a lying, personally offensive, braggart, ignorant, self serving pigfucker who has conned , and will continue to con some of the less sophisticated electorate. Problem is that the unsophisticated electorate constitutes a very large segment of my nations voting population.   
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: billy rubin on April 26, 2020, 01:15:03 AM
... that hos lawyers wouldnt let him testify ...
I love your errors.
 :lol:

thats not what i meant
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Magdalena on April 26, 2020, 01:51:58 AM
... that hos lawyers wouldnt let him testify ...
I love your errors.
 :lol:

thats not what i meant
I know.
 :grin:
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on April 30, 2020, 01:43:30 PM
OWN it, muh dude! fight the power!  ;D

So there is a bit of a "media storm" in all the predictable places over Mr. Trump saying;
Quote from: @realDonaldTrump on Twitter
Despite reports to the contrary, Sweden is paying heavily for its decision not to lockdown. As of today, 2462 people have died there, a much higher number than the neighboring countries of Norway (207), Finland (206) or Denmark (443). The United States made the correct decision!

But they are paying the price for their early decisions! Their own bloody state epidemiologist admitted partial strategy failure (https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/erkjenner-a-ha-mislyktes/72326668)* long ago, and their relative rate of deaths per confirmed case is, frankly, staggering when compared to the neighboring countries. Now that Donald Trump said, it, however, it simply must be wrong, and oh please, God, make it be wrong! Sometimes, the president is simply correct.

Well... At least our largest paper is keeping its ideological glasses in a drawer... Thus far.

*Source in Norwegian
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Icarus on May 24, 2020, 12:18:01 AM
We are in danger of having Trump reelected.  Perish the thought but that is a real possibility. Trump supporter disorder is an appropriate name for the mysterious inflexible support of a man whose words are seldom to be believed.

Here is an article from Scientific American magazine that explores the reasons that people believe "fake news".   This an easy read that has, I am pleased to say, reinforced the position that more than a few of our HAFers have entertained.  I will condense the article for you.....it goes like this.............. Ignorant...call it less sophisticated.... people are easily and almost permanently  brainwashed such that they believe in lies no matter the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes reality.

We could apply this line of thought to religion as well as to politics.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/cognitive-ability-and-vulnerability-to-fake-news?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 24, 2020, 03:23:20 AM
Well, from what I can make of it, it's Trump or George Soros.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Randy on May 24, 2020, 03:54:17 PM
My caregiver is a Trump supporter. She says she "trusts him." This is despite the facts I've laid out which I will not go into here. Everyone knows them already I'm sure.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 24, 2020, 05:39:13 PM
My caregiver is a Trump supporter. She says she "trusts him." This is despite the facts I've laid out which I will not go into here. Everyone knows them already I'm sure.

My wife has a woman friend whose attitude about the chump's philandering is, "Boys will be boys!" SMH
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: billy rubin on May 24, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
i just had a young oil field worker yesterday tell me that covid19 waz all a hoax.

i did not press for details. no point.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Magdalena on May 24, 2020, 08:14:00 PM
i just had a young oil field worker yesterday tell me that covid19 waz all a hoax.

i did not press for details. no point.
Of course, it's all a hoax.
"What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."
~Donald Trump
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: billy rubin on May 24, 2020, 09:34:13 PM
that suspension of reality is the real illness here

there is nothing you can say to someone who livez in a different universe

people i work with think biden drinks childrens blood to stay young, and the illuminati are behind the deep state that only trump can protectbnb us from

he badly needz to catch the virus and die.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 24, 2020, 10:19:27 PM
I just don't understand people like that. And they are everywhere.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Icarus on May 24, 2020, 10:41:13 PM
There is a link to a Scientific American article that I have posted elsewhere.  The article explains in some detail that a lie repeated often enough becomes truth. That is particularly true if the lie or lies have been perpetrated by some one who occupies a high station.  Once the lie is accepted, no matter whether it has been proven false, the believer clings tenaciously to the lie and shapes his attitudes and behaviors in accordance with his mistaken belief.

This reality can be applied not only to used car salesmen and politicians but also to some of the elements of religion.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Randy on May 25, 2020, 12:32:57 AM
that suspension of reality is the real illness here

there is nothing you can say to someone who livez in a different universe

people i work with think biden drinks childrens blood to stay young, and the illuminati are behind the deep state that only trump can protectbnb us from
Say it isn't so!

This is just way out there weird. I don't think I could do anything accept stare as my mind slowly breaks into a million tiny fragments.

he badly needz to catch the virus and die.
I'm a little worried about Pence taking his place. I probably shouldn't be but there is something about the guy that scares me and I can't quite put my finger on it.

I read his biography just now and there really isn't anything that I can come up with. I just remember him running for Vice President and I wondered what would happen if he took over. I'll blame chemo brain for this.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Randy on May 25, 2020, 12:42:08 AM
There is a link to a Scientific American article that I have posted elsewhere.  The article explains in some detail that a lie repeated often enough becomes truth. That is particularly true if the lie or lies have been perpetrated by some one who occupies a high station.  Once the lie is accepted, no matter whether it has been proven false, the believer clings tenaciously to the lie and shapes his attitudes and behaviors in accordance with his mistaken belief.

This reality can be applied not only to used car salesmen and politicians but also to some of the elements of religion.

Yeah, it's a shame really. It isn't that she doesn't believe he lies, she says that "all politicians lie." That may be true but not like this. Anyway, her reason is that she thinks immigration is ruining the country and he'll stop it.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: billy rubin on May 25, 2020, 10:43:52 AM
did i mention hoop snakez?

alive and well out here.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 25, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
There's logically only two choices, globalism or Americanism (However one understands Americanism).
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Randy on May 25, 2020, 03:29:10 PM
There's logically only two choices, globalism or Americanism (However one understands Americanism).

At the rate the COVID-19 is going here in the USA I begin to wonder if the second choice will even be feasible.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Recusant on May 25, 2020, 08:56:42 PM
that suspension of reality is the real illness here

there is nothing you can say to someone who livez in a different universe

people i work with think biden drinks childrens blood to stay young, and the illuminati are behind the deep state that only trump can protectbnb us from
Say it isn't so!

This is just way out there weird. I don't think I could do anything accept stare as my mind slowly breaks into a million tiny fragments.

he badly needz to catch the virus and die.
I'm a little worried about Pence taking his place. I probably shouldn't be but there is something about the guy that scares me and I can't quite put my finger on it.

I read his biography just now and there really isn't anything that I can come up with. I just remember him running for Vice President and I wondered what would happen if he took over. I'll blame chemo brain for this.

Pence is a Christofascist creep. He believes in the literal truth of Genesis, uses the rancid Creationist canard "evolution is a theory not a fact." Therefore in his view Creationism needs to be taught in schools in the same class that teaches about evolution (another decrepit Creationist meme: "teach the controversy").

He wants Roe v Wade to be overturned, and thinks that abortion should be made illegal again.

He believes that "No people of faith today face greater hostility or hatred than followers of Christ."

He's been strongly against accepting the fact that gay people should have equal rights ([PDF] "The Real Mike Pence" | Human Rights Campaign (https://assets2.hrc.org/files/assets/resources/RealMikePence-2018-FinalReport.pdf)).

His ideology inclines him to make decisions that are demonstrably harmful. ("How Mike Pence Made Indiana’s HIV Outbreak Worse" | Politico (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/02/how-mike-pence-made-indianas-hiv-outbreak-worse-118648)).

The Dominionists are very happy with Trump. They'd be over the moon with Pence.

Other than that, he hasn't demonstrated any particular competence in governance, and promotes the Republican agenda of devotion to the interests of corporations and the wealthy.
 
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Randy on May 26, 2020, 12:05:22 AM
Thanks for reminding me, Recusant. I don't know how I could have forgotten all that. I do remember that he kind of wants us to be a theocracy which is scary. Do we go back to stoning people if it is written in the good book? How far do we take this if that were to happen?

I looked at the polls, and depending on which one a person chooses, the Cheeto has 40% of the vote. How can he have such blind followers? I know of at least four and I don't know that many people. Two of them always vote republican and it doesn't matter if he's a nut job. One believes Mexicans are the problem in this country and the last believes in the Wholly Babble as the literal truth and therefore goes with what the evangelicals support.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: billy rubin on May 26, 2020, 01:44:41 AM
therez been a whole generation of truth deniers now.

it got started back some 25 years ago when the dark side realized they didnt have to win arguments by being right, all they had to do was lie repeatedlyuntil people couldnt tell the diffrence.

and here we are living under the minitrue
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 26, 2020, 03:14:32 AM
Question, as a matter of personal interest. If Hillary would have become president what would be the differences we would have today then the presidency ofTrump. IOW, what would be the differences in the state of affairs of the US.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 26, 2020, 04:34:34 AM
Off the top of my head, US/world relations would be orders of magnitude better. The coronavirus response would have been many weeks sooner. There would have been women hanged in effigy, somewhere. We'd have at least one less conservative judge on the bench of the SCOTUS. There would still be a number of the chump's associates in prison, under indictment, etc.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Icarus on May 26, 2020, 06:08:59 AM
^ ditto.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on May 26, 2020, 11:04:12 AM
Off the top of my head, US/world relations would be orders of magnitude better.
What's wrong with them? I can't speak for the World, nor do I care to, but my immediate area is as friendly towards the United States as it was under the previous administration.

Quote
The coronavirus response would have been many weeks sooner.
I doubt it. Although, if Mrs. Clinton's leadership were more authoritarian in nature, it may have been. Among the more densely populated "civilized" countries, there is a certain correlation between the state's nannying and their respective infection plots. The freer among them tend to be on a linear incline, while the infection rates in various nanny-states have largely stagnated or declined.

Note that when I talk about "nannying" here, it's not only a matter of top-down government control, "there ought to be a law" style, but just as much a matter of general public attitudes (Whether the population at large also thinks that there ought to be a law, or if they lean towards "keep your government hands out of my cookie jar") EDIT: Upon re-reading, I see that I was imprecise here; the wording I was looking for was, "the strength of 'government is a hindrnace/necessary evil' sentiment among the population." I did not mean "the majority," although I worded it thusly.

Quote
There would have been women hanged in effigy, somewhere.
I'm no connoisseur of effigies, nor do I think such things are something an president should be involved in at all, but why is it important, exactly, that they be women? In matters of who gets a statue, ought not their personal achievements far out-weigh their sex glands?

Quote
We'd have at least one less conservative judge on the bench of the SCOTUS.
Yep. (No, really. Simply, yep.)

Quote
There would still be a number of the chump's associates in prison, under indictment, etc.
Exactly who and for what? (I'm not saying that would not happen, but when the cunt-pickeld fuck* did regular people on The Left™ stop adhering to the principles of innocence until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt? On a related note, "listen and believe" is crap. People lie.)

*I do apologize for the level of vulgarity, but that was one of the main drives for my no-longer losely self-identifying with the Left. The issue of presumption of innocence is something I will not easily forsake.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 26, 2020, 03:48:09 PM
Off the top of my head, US/world relations would be orders of magnitude better.
What's wrong with them? I can't speak for the World, nor do I care to, but my immediate area is as friendly towards the United States as it was under the previous administration.

I know what I read from other areas of the world about how the chump affects them. Maybe there's hyperbole there?
Quote
The coronavirus response would have been many weeks sooner.
I doubt it. Although, if Mrs. Clinton's leadership were more authoritarian in nature, it may have been. Among the more densely populated "civilized" countries, there is a certain correlation between the state's nannying and their respective infection plots. The freer among them tend to be on a linear incline, while the infection rates in various nanny-states have largely stagnated or declined.

Note that when I talk about "nannying" here, it's not only a matter of top-down government control, "there ought to be a law" style, but just as much a matter of general public attitudes (Whether the population at large also thinks that there ought to be a law, or if they lean towards "keep your government hands out of my cookie jar") EDIT: Upon re-reading, I see that I was imprecise here; the wording I was looking for was, "the strength of 'government is a hindrnace/necessary evil' sentiment among the population." I did not mean "the majority," although I worded it thusly.

Quote
There would have been women hanged in effigy, somewhere.
I'm no connoisseur of effigies, nor do I think such things are something an president should be involved in at all, but why is it important, exactly, that they be women? In matters of who gets a statue, ought not their personal achievements far out-weigh their sex glands?

I should have been more specific- I meant Hilary would have been hanged in effigy. When Obama was elected, he was hanged and burned in effigy.

Quote
We'd have at least one less conservative judge on the bench of the SCOTUS.
Yep. (No, really. Simply, yep.)

Quote
There would still be a number of the chump's associates in prison, under indictment, etc.
Exactly who and for what? (I'm not saying that would not happen, but when the cunt-pickeld fuck* did regular people on The Left™ stop adhering to the principles of innocence until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt? On a related note, "listen and believe" is crap. People lie.)

I guess the ones involved with the Russian offers of help would be. Hard to say, since Hilary isn't in office.

*I do apologize for the level of vulgarity, but that was one of the main drives for my no-longer losely self-identifying with the Left. The issue of presumption of innocence is something I will not easily forsake.

Responses in green, because  I'm not sure how you did those quotes all separated out.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Tom62 on May 26, 2020, 05:56:18 PM
^Well, I don't like both of them.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 26, 2020, 07:02:58 PM
I didn't intend there to be a political debate. My interest is- in your opinion/insight how would the US be different today (if at all) if Hillary had been president this last 3-1/2 years.  The reason I ask is,  just as today logic says there will be the same choices as last election, either Globalism or Americanism.  :)
edit: I'm interpreting Americanism to mean that the country remains as previous, a capitalistic entity.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Recusant on May 26, 2020, 09:06:04 PM
In your opinion globalism is something other than capitalism, then?
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Asmodean on May 26, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
In your opinion globalism is something other than capitalism, then?
I’m totally biting on that, but not this evening :hooked:
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 26, 2020, 10:35:42 PM
In your opinion globalism is something other than capitalism, then?
No. Capitalism is a personal choice. At the same time - capitalism is a predatory process. All are predatory by one's personal nature. So it cannot be disallowed. Americanism is based (at present time) on capitalism. BUT, people must realize that the predator must be controlled instead of letting it run loose to the harm of the many. I need to add however, the US system doesn't easily allow any other processes to be very successful , which I find unconstitutional.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Recusant on May 26, 2020, 11:07:15 PM
How is capitalism a personal choice?

Globalism appears to be completely intertwined with globalization. This in turn is driven by multinational corporations. Governments have largely become the lapdogs of various corporate interests, and since globalization is good for the most powerful corporate interests, globalism as an underlying ideology reigns. This state of affairs will most likely continue as long as the current civilization exists.

The term "Americanism" is vague and amorphous. You blandly bring it into the discussion and say it's based on capitalism. Somebody else might say that it's based on personal freedom. Capitalism and personal freedom are not necessarily congruent. The worker in the textile mill in 19th century Manchester was basking in the glory of capitalism, but had very little personal freedom. The point is, your use of "Americanism" clouds the discussion. It may be your personal shorthand for something, but that isn't any help.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 27, 2020, 03:44:59 AM
I would rather say, it should be a personal choice. I'm going by my situation as is. I'm retired and out of business. But, if I were to do some business I have to take into account whether I'm being predatory or not, or to what degree. The everyday individual that has to make a living may not have much of a choice. We are stuck with an inherited system of economy. I would rather be in a closed social system economy, but even at that it would still require at times a bit of capitalism. Capitalism isn't necessarily predatory but is an open door to predatory practices. 

Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 27, 2020, 01:57:23 PM
A·mer·i·can·ism
/əˈmerik(ə)niz(ə)m/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Americanism; plural noun: Americanisms

    1.
    a word, expression, or other feature that is characteristic of American English.
    "the term is an Americanism dating back to the late nineteenth century"
        a custom, quality, or institution characteristic of the United States.
        "Americanisms such as the barbecue and the swimming pool"
    2.
    attachment or allegiance to the traditions, institutions, and ideals of the United States.
    "Americans in Europe have almost all preserved their Americanism"
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Recusant on May 27, 2020, 04:22:04 PM
A·mer·i·can·ism
/əˈmerik(ə)niz(ə)m/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Americanism; plural noun: Americanisms

    1.
    a word, expression, or other feature that is characteristic of American English.
    "the term is an Americanism dating back to the late nineteenth century"
        a custom, quality, or institution characteristic of the United States.
        "Americanisms such as the barbecue and the swimming pool"
    2.
    attachment or allegiance to the traditions, institutions, and ideals of the United States.
    "Americans in Europe have almost all preserved their Americanism"

Do you believe that has advanced the discussion in any way?
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Recusant on May 27, 2020, 04:36:55 PM
I would rather say, it should be a personal choice. I'm going by my situation as is. I'm retired and out of business. But, if I were to do some business I have to take into account whether I'm being predatory or not, or to what degree. The everyday individual that has to make a living may not have much of a choice. We are stuck with an inherited system of economy. I would rather be in a closed social system economy, but even at that it would still require at times a bit of capitalism. Capitalism isn't necessarily predatory but is an open door to predatory practices.

It seems to me you're arguing that "personal choice" is somehow defining of or integral to capitalism. If so, you've failed so far. You haven't shown that capitalism is or "should be" a personal choice. In fact, though personal choice is hopefully an element in a capitalist system, it is largely irrelevant.

Often the "personal choice" presented by capitalism is "our way or nothing" or "this product or forget it." If you want to watch certain television shows when they're presented to the public, you must subscribe to a particular provider. In many cases there is only one provider in your area that gives access to those shows. In a capitalist system, "personal choice" is an incidental benefit that may arise, but it's certainly not necessary. When capitalists have free rein, they tend to accumulate power and try to eliminate the competition. This results in diminishing personal choice rather than enhancing it, and there's nothing in capitalism in and of itself that prevents this result. There isn't a genuinely capitalist mechanism that even mitigates against such an outcome. Sure, competition is part of capitalism, and that will provide some choices, but once a particular entity has out-competed all its rivals, choice becomes superfluous.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 05:02:18 PM
thats the thing about capitalism-- profit is the only way it keeps score.

the purest goal of capitalism is monopoly. there is no incentive inherent in the system to strive for any goal other than elimination of competitors and then maximizing profit in their absence. what social ethics do exist within a capitalist economic system are always injected from outside, and always come at a cost to profit. ethical capitalists are always at a disadvantage in the marketplace.

unrestricted capitalism evolves into robbery, because the goals and the methods are the same.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 27, 2020, 05:31:56 PM
A·mer·i·can·ism
/əˈmerik(ə)niz(ə)m/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Americanism; plural noun: Americanisms

    1.
    a word, expression, or other feature that is characteristic of American English.
    "the term is an Americanism dating back to the late nineteenth century"
        a custom, quality, or institution characteristic of the United States.
        "Americanisms such as the barbecue and the swimming pool"
    2.
    attachment or allegiance to the traditions, institutions, and ideals of the United States.
    "Americans in Europe have almost all preserved their Americanism"

Do you believe that has advanced the discussion in any way?
This was intended for the Dominionist subject.
Somewhere you posted my input of the term Americanism was vague and amorphous. -Capitalism is the main stay of America's economy and I include it with a facet of Americanism.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Old Seer on May 27, 2020, 08:09:57 PM
I would rather say, it should be a personal choice. I'm going by my situation as is. I'm retired and out of business. But, if I were to do some business I have to take into account whether I'm being predatory or not, or to what degree. The everyday individual that has to make a living may not have much of a choice. We are stuck with an inherited system of economy. I would rather be in a closed social system economy, but even at that it would still require at times a bit of capitalism. Capitalism isn't necessarily predatory but is an open door to predatory practices.

It seems to me you're arguing that "personal choice" is somehow defining of or integral to capitalism. If so, you've failed so far. You haven't shown that capitalism is or "should be" a personal choice. In fact, though personal choice is hopefully an element in a capitalist system, it is largely irrelevant.

Often the "personal choice" presented by capitalism is "our way or nothing" or "this product or forget it." If you want to watch certain television shows when they're presented to the public, you must subscribe to a particular provider. In many cases there is only one provider in your area that gives access to those shows. In a capitalist system, "personal choice" is an incidental benefit that may arise, but it's certainly not necessary. When capitalists have free rein, they tend to accumulate power and try to eliminate the competition. This results in diminishing personal choice rather than enhancing it, and there's nothing in capitalism in and of itself that prevents this result. There isn't a genuinely capitalist mechanism that even mitigates against such an outcome. Sure, competition is part of capitalism, and that will provide some choices, but once a particular entity has out-competed all its rivals, choice becomes superfluous.
Well, as far as I can tell, I can freely chose to indulge in capitalism or not. Oft times there is no choice. Where I can make the choice I do. A year ago I terminated my transport business, and there were times I could have capitalized on a situation but chose not to, so it was a personal choice.  I can also take part in the stock market but I choose not to.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Recusant on May 27, 2020, 09:07:24 PM
Yes, in a capitalist system, those with money to risk are free to choose to be capitalists. I think you can see why that's a rather specialized application of the term "personal choice".
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Icarus on August 07, 2020, 10:25:21 PM
Among the Trump Supporter Disorders are the QAnon  nutjobs.  They are a scary bunch of conspiracy theorists who are  announced Trumpers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-trump-campaign-came-to-court-qanon-the-online-conspiracy-movement-identified-by-the-fbi-as-a-violent-threat/2020/08/01/dd0ea9b4-d1d4-11ea-9038-af089b63ac21_story.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Randy on August 08, 2020, 04:13:27 PM
I've heard about QAnon a few times but had no idea what it was. I didn't even know it was a movement. I don't know what I thought it was. Now that I know more about it I find they are nutjobs. I'll have to look up there manifesto (I'm pretty sure they would have one) to see what they stand for to give a proper assessment of them. It all depends on what I want to do with my time.

I want Trump out of office even if they have to carry him kicking and screaming. I plan to live long enough to see the next four years with a Biden presidency. I want to leave the world knowing that things will get better.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on August 09, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
I've heard about QAnon a few times but had no idea what it was. I didn't even know it was a movement. I don't know what I thought it was. Now that I know more about it I find they are nutjobs. I'll have to look up there manifesto (I'm pretty sure they would have one) to see what they stand for to give a proper assessment of them. It all depends on what I want to do with my time.

I want Trump out of office even if they have to carry him kicking and screaming. I plan to live long enough to see the next four years with a Biden presidency. I want to leave the world knowing that things will get better.

QAnon never met a conspiracy it didn't like.
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: No one on August 09, 2020, 08:27:41 PM
Title: Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
Post by: Randy on August 09, 2020, 11:51:30 PM
New York Times: White House reached out to South Dakota governor about adding Trump to Mount Rushmore. (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/mount-rushmore-trump-south-dakota/index.html)

Just when you think you've seen it all, there's more.