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General => Politics => Topic started by: Tank on January 03, 2020, 08:27:01 AM

Title: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Tank on January 03, 2020, 08:27:01 AM
Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50979463#)

Quote
Iran's most powerful military commander, General Qasem Soleimani, has been killed by a US air strike in Iraq.

The 62-year old spearheaded Iranian military operations in the Middle East as head of Iran's elite Quds Force.

He was killed at Baghdad airport, alongside local Iran-backed militias, early on Friday in a strike ordered by US President Donald Trump.

...

Things just got serious.
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: billy rubin on January 03, 2020, 04:47:50 PM
very nazty.

killing souleimani was problably a direct rezponse to the staged embazsy invasion earlier in the week. i have no idea whether the iranians were planning to kill diplomats, as trumpz toadies claim.

but invading embazsies and taking hostagez was one of irans most succezzful feats of the 1970s, and it seems clear to me that it might have been in more than one persons mind. showy, with america unable to counter the international humiliation.

no way to tell whether this strategy will do anything except cause a war. gettonh tough with iran prior to his impeachment trial is right on page one of trump's playbook.

my sister was in tehran in 1979, and was evacuated out of iran a few weeks ahug ead of the revolutionary guards takeover.
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on January 03, 2020, 08:43:27 PM
I'm no fan of Trump, but I can't say right now that this was an error.  We had showed restraint on previous aggression, but this time was in response to the killing of an American contractor.  You kill one of ours, we kill some of yours.  This guy is our sworn enemy.  Let's see where it goes.   One thing for sure, Iran can't hate us any more because of it.

For the record, I do think Trump was wrong to scrap the deal Obama put together with Iran.  At least that was keeping them from going nuclear.
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Icarus on January 04, 2020, 01:00:24 AM
Here is an article containing the bolts and nuts of the Suleimani situation.  A interesting read that lays out the details and history.

 https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/09/30/the-shadow-commander?utm_source=pocket-newtab&verso=true
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: jumbojak on January 04, 2020, 01:23:03 AM
I'm no fan of Trump, but I can't say right now that this was an error.  We had showed restraint on previous aggression, but this time was in response to the killing of an American contractor.  You kill one of ours, we kill some of yours.  This guy is our sworn enemy.  Let's see where it goes.   One thing for sure, Iran can't hate us any more because of it.

For the record, I do think Trump was wrong to scrap the deal Obama put together with Iran.  At least that was keeping them from going nuclear.

Was this contractor part of a PMC?
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on January 04, 2020, 02:13:30 AM
I'm no fan of Trump, but I can't say right now that this was an error.  We had showed restraint on previous aggression, but this time was in response to the killing of an American contractor.  You kill one of ours, we kill some of yours.  This guy is our sworn enemy.  Let's see where it goes.   One thing for sure, Iran can't hate us any more because of it.

For the record, I do think Trump was wrong to scrap the deal Obama put together with Iran.  At least that was keeping them from going nuclear.

Was this contractor part of a PMC?

Not sure.  He was a civilian contractor employee on an Iraqi base near Kirkuk.
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: jumbojak on January 04, 2020, 04:54:14 AM
I'm no fan of Trump, but I can't say right now that this was an error.  We had showed restraint on previous aggression, but this time was in response to the killing of an American contractor.  You kill one of ours, we kill some of yours.  This guy is our sworn enemy.  Let's see where it goes.   One thing for sure, Iran can't hate us any more because of it.

For the record, I do think Trump was wrong to scrap the deal Obama put together with Iran.  At least that was keeping them from going nuclear.

Was this contractor part of a PMC?

Not sure.  He was a civilian contractor employee on an Iraqi base near Kirkuk.

I haven't seen anything detailing what the contractor was doing. If he was working for a PMC then I think the justification for retaliation on this scale falls apart completely. The final straw for tiptoeing to war should not be the death of a mercenary.

Nobody seems to be asking this question.
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Inertialmass on January 04, 2020, 05:01:15 AM
The US illegally invaded Iraq seventeen years ago under the false, ludicrous pretense that Iraq was manufacturing all sorts of awful awful bio, chem, nuke WMD in support of Islamist terror.  (Turns out of course it's our bud Israel that actually has the miscellaneous, awful, "secret" stockpiles of WMD.)

Seventeen years ago we lied and we murdered hundreds of thousands over there.

Why the heck are these illicit US soldiers and private contractors even still in Iraq?  If a buncha goofballs from the other side of the globe just came in willy nilly killing my relatives, friends and neighbors and building military bases down the road from me as the US has done and is doing in Iraq, I'd be doing all I could to resist the invaders' efforts.  Pretty much all the various moral systems agree you have the right if not duty to resist illicit foreign invasion.

Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Inertialmass on January 04, 2020, 05:17:37 AM
but invading embazsies and taking hostagez was one of irans most succezzful feats of the 1970s...

Virtually no one believes that the 1979 US Embassy takeover by Iranian students was staged or planned by the revolutionary government.  In the early planning stages the students went back and forth considering whether it best to take over the US embassy or the USSR embassy to show the world their rejection of secularism.  They'd hoped it would only last a couple days or a week.

Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: xSilverPhinx on January 04, 2020, 01:49:49 PM
I think this kind of measure is how Trump overcompensates for another measure...

But seriously now, paraphrasing Trump, "we did this not to start a war, but to end a war"...? NEWSFLASH! Iran has other generals. Trump boosted the morale of the Iranians. You don't win a war by throwing money at it.

I think the US will lose this war they started (minus perhaps the gun-selling warlords, who have everything to gain). Ironically, even more American lives will be lost because of this escalation, not to mention even more civilian life from the middle eastern region.

I'm not defending Soleimani or anyone here, but I think this will go down in history as a stupid move.   
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Icarus on January 05, 2020, 03:56:38 AM
Ditto Silver.  A stupid move to reinforce the Trumps tough guy stance.   

We will suffer for that foolish decision to murder a highest ranking official of another country.  He was a bad guy who needed to be snuffed out but the decision to do so was ill conceived.  He has been around for a while and has been considered for elimination by previous administrations.   The operative question was whether  the benefits of killing him would be worth enough to offset  the certain threats of our own harm that it would cause.  Other administrations, two of them, thought better of assassinating him.

Bully boy has shit in his own mess kit and ours too. 
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Inertialmass on January 05, 2020, 06:46:44 AM
Quote
Iran names deputy commander of Quds force to replace Soleimani after killing

Published Fri, Jan 3, 2020

Reuters

DUBAI, Jan 3 (Reuters) - Iran’s supreme leader appointed assassinated commander Qassem Soleimani’s deputy, Brigadier General Esmail Ghaani, to replace him as head of the country’s Quds Forces, Iranian media reported.

The force’s programme “will be unchanged from the time of his predecessor,” Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said in a statement published by state media.


Nothing has changed except now there's mainstream precedent for the outright assassination by one nation of another's high level national leadership.  Political assassination is old as the hills but this appears to be something newish.

Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Icarus on January 05, 2020, 10:31:56 PM
 Israel has a highly efficient and well developed system for disposing of adversaries that they see as dangerous. . Their secret service assassins are as good or better than ours or even the Russians.  They have had good reason to have an unbridled  hate for  the Iranian General. 

The Jews are smarter than us.  They are aware that there are circumstances in which a dead hated man can be more dangerous than a live one.
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: billy rubin on January 05, 2020, 11:13:50 PM
. . .and iran has jettisoned the 2015 nuclear deal.

presumably this means that one of trump's 52 targets is going to have to be the uranium enrichment facilities.

Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: xSilverPhinx on January 06, 2020, 03:03:56 AM
. . .and iran has jettisoned the 2015 nuclear deal.

presumably this means that one of trump's 52 targets is going to have to be the uranium enrichment facilities.

Unintended consequences will come knocking on Trump's door. I'll bet Iran and other countries will be pushed into developing nuclear weapons as deterrents so they don't have to suffer the bully on the block anymore. I'm gonna bet that's one huge unintended outcome of Trump's actions.

Seriously, what is Trump's grand strategy here? Just keep escalating attacks until he's 'forced' to drop a nuke on Iran and destroy them? It's most likely killing Soleimani was necessary, but did it have to be like that? While the monster was in another sovereign nation? What was that anyway? A show of strength? I doubt it will put the fear of God Trump in 'em...

I am more and more convinced that Trump has orange shit for brains, thinking he can control events and manipulate people into doing what he wants. All these juvenile threats he tweets are cringeworthy and give insight into just how dangerously unhinged he is. I really, really hope he's stopped before he can do even more damage.   
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Inertialmass on January 06, 2020, 01:26:52 PM
...The Jews are smarter than us.  They are aware that there are circumstances in which a dead hated man can be more dangerous than a live one. 

Depends how you define "smart."  Keeping in mind Judaism and Israel are two different categories, notice over the centuries that Judaism is even shrinking (now at ~.2%) as a share of world population.  And year after year Israel is the "winner" in total United Nations condemnations for its illicit land grabs and its ethnic cleansing if not outright terror campaigns ongoing against Palestine and its Arab neighbors.  The noble struggle for justice is one thing, but to catalyze decades of near-universal condemnation for ones' selfishness and arrogance probably says more about them than about the rest of the world.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Icarus on January 07, 2020, 12:59:44 AM
I was referring to a specific case in which the Israelis are shrewd enough to anticipate serious fallout should  they snuff an important Iranian.

There are a few other countries that have been adversely, and murderously affected by Soleimani and his associates. 

Our commander in chief is a damned poor chess player. It is clear that he lacks skill at anticipating the opponents next move.

Does anyone else suspect that the murder of an internationally known bad guy, as directed by Trump, could be another of Trump's

 self serving publicity stunts? 
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: xSilverPhinx on January 07, 2020, 01:20:29 AM
...Our commander in chief is a damned poor chess player. It is clear that he lacks skill at anticipating the opponents next move.

It seems worse than that, it's as if he plays against himself, moving both his pieces and moving those on the opposite side of the board. Unfortunately for Trump, he's actually 'playing' against real opponents, with minds of their own, but he continues to act as if he thinks he can control the outcomes by moving their pieces for them.

Quote
Does anyone else suspect that the murder of an internationally known bad guy, as directed by Trump, could be another of Trump's self serving publicity stunts?

My impression could be wrong, but it looks like he's trying to rally Americans behind him and feed patriotic/nationalist passions in his decision to escalate the conflict. Maybe he thinks the war will unite Americans under his questionable leadership. Maybe he believes it will help him get re-elected. He also comes off as someone desperately trying to seem like a strong, no-nonsense person. Since he's so inept when it comes to soft power dynamics he's going for a more heavy-handed approach.
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Dark Lightning on January 07, 2020, 04:16:17 AM
Naaah, the chump is completely oblivious of how the government actually works. It's obvious, if one considers how his TV shows ran. They aren't the government, and he doesn't control the narrative, no matter how hard he tries. He's so far under water trying to run the government, it is pathetic. We, in every country, may not like how it is run. But the chump hasn't a clue for where the levers of the government are even located.
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: billy rubin on January 07, 2020, 12:39:04 PM
the problem is that hes creating messes that will dominate subsequent administrations as they try to repair the damage.

i used to consider republicans a well meani g conservative opposition. but they ve turned into lunatic authoritarians
Title: Re: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
Post by: Recusant on January 08, 2020, 12:47:52 AM
Iran demonstrates its willingness to proceed. Now for Trump to impulsively escalate again.

"Iran strikes back at US with missile attack at bases in Iraq" | AP (https://apnews.com/add7a702258b4419d796aa5f48e577fc)

Quote
Iran struck back at the United States for the killing of a top Iranian general early Wednesday, firing a series of surface-to-surface missiles at two Iraqi bases housing U.S. troops and warning the United States and its allies in the region not to retaliate.

U.S. officials confirmed the strikes, though Iran only initially acknowledged targeting one base. There was no immediate word on injuries.

Iranian state TV said the attack was in revenge for the killing of Revolutionary Guard Gen. Qassem Soleimani, whose funeral procession Tuesday in his hometown of Kerman prompted angry calls to avenge his death, which drastically raised tensions in the Middle East.

[Continues . . . (https://apnews.com/add7a702258b4419d796aa5f48e577fc)]