Happy Atheist Forum

Getting To Know You => Laid Back Lounge => Topic started by: billy rubin on October 29, 2019, 10:41:33 PM

Title: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 29, 2019, 10:41:33 PM
shitfire.

im trying to get the cylinder head down on my race bike and today i got ready to clay the pistons. i have to modify the piston crowns zo they dont zmack into the head because the compression is so high. i do that by putting little blobs of clay on the pistons and rotating the motor over top dead center. then i .meazure how thick the squashed parts are.

anyway, i put it together and started to adjust the valvez, and the adjuster screws just kept giing down and down. i took it apart to make sure the new pushrods were seated and tried again. same thing. couldnt figure it out.

finally i took the pushrods out and measured them. tbey were a half inch too short.

triumph used 6-inch pushrods from 1963 to 1973, and then 5.5-inch pushrods from then on. my lushrods were labelled correctly for my older machine, but someone put a set of new ones in the box.

so now i have to order replacements and wait, and that puts me a week behind getting this thing out to break in the rings before the snow fliez.

rats.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 29, 2019, 11:39:17 PM
BR:  when you get the new pushrods, You should check the valve timing carefully, with degree wheel and cam card.  Just a wee bit of difference in pushrod length will alter the valve timing and duration on account of the relative positions of the rockers. You either have high domed pistons or have milled some off the length off the cylinder casting. Domed pistons do not affect the valve  timing but milling the cylinder casting does.... big time.  Clay the valve pockets, for sure, when you get the new parts.  But I suspect that you know that stuff. 

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 01:13:44 AM

you're absolutely right. it takes me a whole day to set the valve timing, because i'm fussy. triumphs have fifty teeth in the camwheels, so each tooth is good for 14.4 degrees, and then there are three keyways, one-third of a tooth apart. so i can come within 2.4 degrees of what i'm looking for, but no better than that. i run five to six degrees retarded from the factory settings. that's supposed to make it weak on the top end, but it doesn't work that way for me.

the cams i use are ultra precise on the lobes-- literally, there is zero measurable runout when i spin them-- a 0.001-inch dial indicator is totally motionless when i rotate back and forth on the base circle-- but the key slots aren't so well-located. the ones i have now are the same grind as before, but are about two degrees advanced from the ones that gave me my best speeds, and i can't get any closer to what i want than that.

(https://i.imgur.com/BoAPALnl.jpg)

my pistons are pretty domed-- 11.75 to 1. i have to run two spark plugs per cylinder to keep the motor from detonating, even with 109 octane gasoline.

(https://i.imgur.com/zwsHmI1l.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 30, 2019, 01:56:07 AM
Holy shit, that's a REAL dome! I've run 13:1 in a Small Block Chevy (SBC), but the combustion chamber is a bit smaller than what you have there. No surprise about needing two spark plugs! I realize how small the keys are, but is it possible to get an offset key that can give you what you need? Maybe the amount you need would weaken the key too much? I've degreed cams in SBCs, but that just takes a pill with an offset center hole.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 02:37:11 AM
its a true hemi head, with all the attendant issuez. with a stock ignition it takes 38 degree of spark advance to run. with two plugs i can use 30, and some people run 20 btdc. hemi heads were great in the 1930s, and their time iz way over. but its what i have.

i previously had the cams set at 106/109 degrees using the lobe centerlines, and now the closest i can get is 104/107. the keys are really, really tiny-- only 1/8 inch wide, so i could file something, but it would be hit or miss. i keep buying old camwheels at swapmeets looking for onez that are out of spec, but zo far theyve all been spot on.

13 to 1 is pretty fierce.  were you running alcohol in those things?
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on October 30, 2019, 03:29:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zwsHmI1l.jpg)

From the entirely different perspective of a sculptor manqué, I am drooling over those beautiful objects. With the addition of some wings, they would make excellent Hermes helmets.

(https://i.imgur.com/SKUYKK0.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 12:40:43 PM
lol

thats before they get polished

(https://i.imgur.com/fEBB2Ufl.jpg)

theyre beautiful things, and horrifyingly expensive. i have to buy four at a time or they wont make them. i complained about it to the man who sets them up, and he said. you LSR guys use up pistons pretty quick. dont worry about it.

and he was right. i suppose i have two hundred miles or so on thiz machine, and im on the third set of pistons.


Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 30, 2019, 01:07:55 PM
its a true hemi head, with all the attendant issuez. with a stock ignition it takes 38 degree of spark advance to run. with two plugs i can use 30, and some people run 20 btdc. hemi heads were great in the 1930s, and their time iz way over. but its what i have.

i previously had the cams set at 106/109 degrees using the lobe centerlines, and now the closest i can get is 104/107. the keys are really, really tiny-- only 1/8 inch wide, so i could file something, but it would be hit or miss. i keep buying old camwheels at swapmeets looking for onez that are out of spec, but zo far theyve all been spot on.

13 to 1 is pretty fierce.  were you running alcohol in those things?

Back then we had to use race fuel with some stupid high octane number, and/or use an octane booster that tetraethyl lead in it. It wasn't anything to try and drive on the street, it was just too expensive.

Are the gears steel or aluminum? I guess either way one could weld the key way full and re-machine the slot in a better place.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 01:49:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OOz17K0l.jpg)

theyre steel. before i start welding im going to hit up the swap meets some more and see if i can find some mis-machined a bit that i can tweak. the british stuff is famous for being sloppy in manufacture because the post-war toolingwas all worn out, but so far their cam wheels have all been held to tight specs.

these old machines went through a dry period of 20 years after the british bike industry died, but right now theres a flourishing industry in used and remanufactured parts.

this will continue another twenty years until people like me are all dead, and then it will allfade away. there are people around here with adult grandchildren who werent born when my machine was made, so the clock is ticking.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 04:09:17 PM
lol

just call me Off-Topic.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on October 30, 2019, 04:14:51 PM
lol

just call me Off-Topic.

Hehe. Well now you have your own topic and one that I have no doubt will be very popular reading. As you're new you're probably not aware that my son has worked at McLaren F1 for the last 6 years. He started there running the simulator and moved on to be Fernando Alonso's performance engineer. He's been doing this for Lando Norris this year. But he's leaving in March next year and moving to America.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: jumbojak on October 30, 2019, 04:20:25 PM
its a true hemi head, with all the attendant issuez. with a stock ignition it takes 38 degree of spark advance to run. with two plugs i can use 30, and some people run 20 btdc. hemi heads were great in the 1930s, and their time iz way over. but its what i have.

i previously had the cams set at 106/109 degrees using the lobe centerlines, and now the closest i can get is 104/107. the keys are really, really tiny-- only 1/8 inch wide, so i could file something, but it would be hit or miss. i keep buying old camwheels at swapmeets looking for onez that are out of spec, but zo far theyve all been spot on.

13 to 1 is pretty fierce.  were you running alcohol in those things?

Back then we had to use race fuel with some stupid high octane number, and/or use an octane booster that tetraethyl lead in it. It wasn't anything to try and drive on the street, it was just too expensive.

Are the gears steel or aluminum? I guess either way one could weld the key way full and re-machine the slot in a better place.

I would braze and then recut the keyway. Perfect job for a shaper if you know someone who has one. Steve Summers would probably jump at the job.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Buddy on October 30, 2019, 04:38:42 PM
Ooooh a car thread.

So this (https://www.shopminiusa.com/PRODUCT/2073/JCW-TUNING-KIT-WITH-EXHAUST-FLAP-SYSTEM) is going to be my present to myself once my student loans are paid off. It's a little on the pricey side, but it's only a little bit more expensive than aftermarket, I get discounts at the dealership for being in a MINI club, and there's a warranty. I really want to turn my car into a little autocross beast 
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 30, 2019, 04:45:40 PM
shitfire.

im trying to get the cylinder head down on my race bike and today i got ready to clay the pistons. i have to modify the piston crowns zo they dont zmack into the head because the compression is so high. i do that by putting little blobs of clay on the pistons and rotating the motor over top dead center. then i .meazure how thick the squashed parts are.

anyway, i put it together and started to adjust the valvez, and the adjuster screws just kept giing down and down. i took it apart to make sure the new pushrods were seated and tried again. same thing. couldnt figure it out.

finally i took the pushrods out and measured them. tbey were a half inch too short.

triumph used 6-inch pushrods from 1963 to 1973, and then 5.5-inch pushrods from then on. my lushrods were labelled correctly for my older machine, but someone put a set of new ones in the box.

so now i have to order replacements and wait, and that puts me a week behind getting this thing out to break in the rings before the snow fliez.

rats.

All I understood was ''shitfire' and 'rats', so I'm assuming it can't be good. :unsure:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on October 30, 2019, 05:24:01 PM
I'm pretty sure all the posts in this thread will be way over my head, but I shall read everything you guys say in the hope of learning something new. I am barely able to put fuel into my tank.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 30, 2019, 05:32:08 PM
I am barely able to put fuel into my tank.

That makes two of us. :popcorn:

 :P
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 08:32:04 PM

Hehe. Well now you have your own topic and one that I have no doubt will be very popular reading. As you're new you're probably not aware that my son has worked at McLaren F1 for the last 6 years. He started there running the simulator and moved on to be Fernando Alonso's performance engineer. He's been doing this for Lando Norris this year. But he's leaving in March next year and moving to America.

woo

no i didn't know that, it is maximally cool, and you are now obligated to post updates.

prior to mcclaren, the last earthshaking event i know of from woking was the arrival of the first cylinder

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn8.openculture.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2F01233744%2FWar5.jpg&hash=b8268d35699427eed96ee08cb77985252df0dfa9)

what is he going to be doing in the states?
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 08:38:48 PM
I would braze and then recut the keyway. Perfect job for a shaper if you know someone who has one. Steve Summers would probably jump at the job.

i never heard of that guy. his shop looks like where i live. appalachia transcends state borders.

as do accents. i live in ohio, but west virginia is the cultural norm. it's sort of the glaswegian of north america.



Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 08:52:48 PM
Ooooh a car thread.

So this (https://www.shopminiusa.com/PRODUCT/2073/JCW-TUNING-KIT-WITH-EXHAUST-FLAP-SYSTEM) is going to be my present to myself once my student loans are paid off. It's a little on the pricey side, but it's only a little bit more expensive than aftermarket, I get discounts at the dealership for being in a MINI club, and there's a warranty. I really want to turn my car into a little autocross beast

cool

i'm new, obviously. what are you starting with? pictures please.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 08:55:11 PM
All I understood was ''shitfire' and 'rats', so I'm assuming it can't be good. :unsure:

yah

you make me scratch my head about neuro function, and that's been a long time.

so we're even, maybe.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 09:03:42 PM
I'm pretty sure all the posts in this thread will be way over my head, but I shall read everything you guys say in the hope of learning something new. I am barely able to put fuel into my tank.

learning is the best reason for existence, as near as i can tell. i mean that quite literally.

in the absence of ultimate meaning, i believe that the optimum profit to existence is to maximize one's experience and skills.

i suppose that could mean many things, but what i'm trying to get across is that learning is valuable for its own sake, absent social value, personal profit, or any other metric.

learning leads to understanding, and understanding leads to an enriched life.

i guess that's why i'm here.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 30, 2019, 09:58:24 PM
I'm pretty sure all the posts in this thread will be way over my head, but I shall read everything you guys say in the hope of learning something new. I am barely able to put fuel into my tank.

learning is the best reason for existence, as near as i can tell. i mean that quite literally.

in the absence of ultimate meaning, i believe that the optimum profit to existence is to maximize one's experience and skills.

i suppose that could mean many things, but what i'm trying to get across is that learning is valuable for its own sake, absent social value, personal profit, or any other metric.

learning leads to understanding, and understanding leads to an enriched life.

i guess that's why i'm here.

:tellmemore:

:smilenod:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Buddy on October 30, 2019, 10:57:30 PM
Ooooh a car thread.

So this (https://www.shopminiusa.com/PRODUCT/2073/JCW-TUNING-KIT-WITH-EXHAUST-FLAP-SYSTEM) is going to be my present to myself once my student loans are paid off. It's a little on the pricey side, but it's only a little bit more expensive than aftermarket, I get discounts at the dealership for being in a MINI club, and there's a warranty. I really want to turn my car into a little autocross beast

cool

i'm new, obviously. what are you starting with? pictures please.

Right now I have a completely stock 2018 MINI Cooper S Ice Blue edition. His name is Jezza and he is my baby. I just started doing autocross this year. My goal is to have a decently fast track car while still maintaining comfort as its my daily driver

(https://i.imgur.com/RPTBFiD.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 30, 2019, 11:18:50 PM
okay.

i am ignorant about this.

what is autocross, these days?

i love the small machines, both old and new minis.

what is the cooper s, and what are you doing?
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 30, 2019, 11:39:47 PM
Ooooh a car thread.

So this (https://www.shopminiusa.com/PRODUCT/2073/JCW-TUNING-KIT-WITH-EXHAUST-FLAP-SYSTEM) is going to be my present to myself once my student loans are paid off. It's a little on the pricey side, but it's only a little bit more expensive than aftermarket, I get discounts at the dealership for being in a MINI club, and there's a warranty. I really want to turn my car into a little autocross beast

cool

i'm new, obviously. what are you starting with? pictures please.

Right now I have a completely stock 2018 MINI Cooper S Ice Blue edition. His name is Jezza and he is my baby. I just started doing autocross this year. My goal is to have a decently fast track car while still maintaining comfort as its my daily driver

(https://i.imgur.com/RPTBFiD.jpg)

Minis already handle pretty much like a slot car, so you won't have to do too much to make it a lot better. Find out how fast one of these can take a corner without internal oiling modifications, so that you don't learn the hard way by starving the oil and wiping out some bearings. Hey, this could be pretty cool. We could help someone else spend their money on go-fast parts! :lol: Though you would actually be better served by asking some people who race their Minis, instead.  :smilenod: If there is money involved, you might want to look into a high-performance driving school to help with skills that may make you able to spank a lot of the hot shots. It's pricey, but here is one example- https://bondurant.com/high-performance-driving/ You'd get a chance to drive a 700 horsepower vehicle. That might ruin you for the Mini, though.  :P
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: jumbojak on October 30, 2019, 11:53:48 PM
Better tires will improve handling for autocross more than just about anything you could do. A small trailer so you can pull a set of track tires and a jack is the way to go unless you can bring a friend with a truck or SUV. You do not want to run track tires daily!
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Buddy on October 31, 2019, 12:41:34 AM
Thanks guys! Between the MINI club I’m in and the BMW SCCA group I race with, I have a lot of ideas for the car. Tires are definitely at the top of the list. I am very fortunate that I live 20 miles from the Tire Rack test track which is where I do all of my autocross events. I know a major upgrade I want to do at some point is figuring out how to decrease the lag between when I get on the gas and when the turbo kicks in. The JCW tune and exhaust is mostly for the increased horsepower and because it sounds amazing.

I have videos of some of my runs I’ll have to upload. I was only two seconds slower than my stepdad and his Challenger SRT8 this last run.

Billy, autocross is basically a bunch of drivers getting together and seeing who can go around a course the fastest. There are sharp corners, serpentines and “gates” that you have to drive through.

Here’s the track that I drive. Usually there are cones set up so the actual course changes every time

(https://media.glassdoor.com/l/67/8b/2a/7a/overhead-view-of-test-track.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 31, 2019, 12:47:35 AM
yo

this is cool.

turbos too?

what are the class rules?



Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Buddy on October 31, 2019, 01:03:29 AM
I’m not 100% sure. Since it was a BMW group we got put together in the “not BMW” class. I was a class C since I had no modifications.

I actually just found these pics from the event on Facebook

That’s me
(https://i.imgur.com/hOm4M3D.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vcJbTWD.jpg)

My stepdad
(https://i.imgur.com/TEEmz7m.jpg)

And my mom brought her Clubman for shits and gigs
(https://i.imgur.com/gNVwPTY.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 31, 2019, 01:11:22 AM
cool

how cAn this not be fantastic?

you have to run stock?

no sus6pension fiddling?
7
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Buddy on October 31, 2019, 01:14:24 AM
cool

how cAn this not be fantastic?

you have to run stock?

no sus6pension fiddling?
7

There were a lot of people with mods. I don’t think there were any limits.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 31, 2019, 01:14:36 AM
shit sorry about typos

is it timed over a rally course?
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 31, 2019, 01:19:38 AM
video, please

enquirong minds are waiting . . .
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Buddy on October 31, 2019, 01:23:31 AM
All the videos are on my stepdad’s phone, so I have to upload to YouTube but he’s technologically challenged haha. As soon as I do though I’ll definitely post here

I just had a great thought. I wonder if I could get a good deal on an exhaust if I buy it straight from the factory when I visit next year. I’ll buy it it’s own plane seat and everything  :grin:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 31, 2019, 01:51:18 AM
I’m not 100% sure. Since it was a BMW group we got put together in the “not BMW” class. I was a class C since I had no modifications.

I actually just found these pics from the event on Facebook

That’s me
(https://i.imgur.com/hOm4M3D.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vcJbTWD.jpg)

My stepdad
(https://i.imgur.com/TEEmz7m.jpg)

And my mom brought her Clubman for shits and gigs
(https://i.imgur.com/gNVwPTY.jpg)

Sounds like great fun :tellmemore:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Anne D. on October 31, 2019, 01:56:31 AM
Yes, sounds kickass : )
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on October 31, 2019, 08:33:55 AM
...
what is he going to be doing in the states?

He's got job interviews with Space X, Google self driving cats (yes I know its typo but it made me giffle) and Tesla. His expertise is migrating computer simulations to real world applications.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Guardian85 on November 02, 2019, 11:12:32 AM
So, earlier this month I made decision to send my lovable Alfa Romeo to the eternal highway in the sky.
Oil leaks, rust, electrical issues, brakes, suspension.....and EU-safety checks this winter. Just not worth it.
(https://scontent.ftrd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71520091_10156184516595981_7282419961526484992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQk5YEaAFconmM4g7nPSrgum0_BEaHHsM0ZWvcC5C4vvmvfYLBaDfihAs7nrdGhKtak&_nc_ht=scontent.ftrd1-1.fna&oh=bdbc716c92642653509c8ecc7c4a4f74&oe=5E5C224F) :'(

A few days later I went south to collect this little thing.
(https://scontent.ftrd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71591197_10156188734800981_1686935339937038336_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQlGaNhQNHDVZZ4iaT--tKD0t49HEZiQhjZ_Yxop3ZQ-fO3YueWl3xhzAG5zIB_2lag&_nc_ht=scontent.ftrd1-1.fna&oh=022dea3d95d0543d5998f0c437349f53&oe=5E641CAB)
Peugeot 206 1.4l
(https://images.finncdn.no/dynamic/960w/2019/9/vertical-3/21/7/158/354/267_382355160.jpg)(https://images.finncdn.no/dynamic/960w/2019/9/vertical-3/21/7/158/354/267_1348370883.jpg)(https://images.finncdn.no/dynamic/960w/2019/9/vertical-3/21/7/158/354/267_1753768974.jpg)
Got it for a low price. Needs a little mostly cosmetic work. Great little engine and fantastic handling.
I really want to take it to a track some time.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: jumbojak on November 03, 2019, 01:01:46 PM
I like French cars for some reason. That's cool Dag.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on November 03, 2019, 01:20:37 PM
I like French cars for some reason. That's cool Dag.

You've never owned one have you.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on November 03, 2019, 01:32:54 PM
lol
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: jumbojak on November 03, 2019, 02:30:51 PM
No, they were pushed out of the market during the 70s. You don't see many at all.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 03, 2019, 05:58:47 PM
No, they were pushed out of the market during the 70s. You don't see many at all.

Could be for a number of reasons, but I wonder, is the reason for them being pushed out of the market have anything to do with the quality of French brands? :P

I've never owned a French car (just Fiat and Volkswagon) but they have a...reputation around here.  :-\
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: jumbojak on November 03, 2019, 07:04:26 PM
It was a push by the then Big Three to limit competition. German and Japanese brands were already making headway and they didn't want the French getting a piece of the pie too. So they lobbied to have specific features regulated out of existence in the US.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Buddy on November 03, 2019, 07:09:41 PM
No, they were pushed out of the market during the 70s. You don't see many at all.

I think the first generation BMW Mini had a French transmission. It’s why my last one failed spectacularly.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 03, 2019, 07:21:00 PM
It was a push by the then Big Three to limit competition. German and Japanese brands were already making headway and they didn't want the French getting a piece of the pie too. So they lobbied to have specific features regulated out of existence in the US.

Hmm...sounds very Game of Thrones Brands. Interesting.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on November 04, 2019, 02:39:15 AM
The Frogs do make good wine and wonderful bread.  Some of their women are rather enchanting also.  Who needs a Puegeot or Citroen? 
 
Way back in the WW2 days I had a Puegeot 125 cc motorcycle.  It did work as well or better than the few Brit bikes that were around.  After I graduated to a four wheeler I had a Fiat Topelino whose transmission was shot to hell.  My father, a skilled machinist, made the gears to replace the trashed ones.  During the war one could get the foreign stuff for practically nothing. No way in hell you could get repair parts at that time in our history.  Clever, or desperate, craftsmen made their own parts....like the piston rings for the Puegeot motor bike which he made from cast iron pipe.   

In the early fifties I worked as a mechanic for an auto dealer who sold little Citroen econoboxes and the early Volvos. I did not care much for the Frenchie but I did respect the Volvos that looked very much like 1939 Ford sedans..  The Volvos had bulletproof little four cylinder engines that could be tuned to go impressively fast.  Fast was not very fast in those days but we thought it was at the time.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tom62 on November 06, 2019, 05:09:32 AM
I had very bad experiences with my Renault 9 in the late eighties. After that I had a lovely Ford Mondeo in the nineties and since the year 2000 I'm driving a Volvo S70. These old Volvo's are nearly indestructible.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on November 06, 2019, 12:51:30 PM
well,  i confesz i would love a 2CV.

but i am drowning trying to maintain six registered shit piles rightnow, and need another clunker like a bedouin needs sand
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on November 10, 2019, 09:50:46 AM
Added for relevance from another thread.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on November 10, 2019, 10:00:37 AM
theres another video somewhere (i think by the same man) of a see through motor running on nitromethane

only for a little while though. the nitro destrys the motor fairly quickly

no atomization, the fuel passes the intake valve as a liquid
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: jumbojak on November 10, 2019, 01:10:52 PM
So long as you're cranking up the acetylene you might as well crack the oxy too... No, not really.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on November 10, 2019, 03:28:20 PM
:lol: He'll need a blast shield if he uses pure oxygen as well, not just goggles.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on November 11, 2019, 01:03:48 AM
Pure oxygen will not let the engine run.  A combustible fuel in even small ratios with oxygen will cause combustion.  In that case with a lean mixture, the fierce heat from the fuel/oxy would melt the piston in short order.  That is the way oxy/acetalene cutting torches work. 

That was a fun video Tank.  Most interesting to see that flame propagation rate varies from one cycle to another.   
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on November 11, 2019, 01:42:16 AM
I meant pure oxygen instead of the normal intake air. Do I really present as that ignorant?  :???:

Off topic, I see that "Corbu is my Homeboy" is posted under my handle. Dafuq is a Corbu!?
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on November 11, 2019, 06:24:59 PM
I meant pure oxygen instead of the normal intake air. Do I really present as that ignorant?  :???:

Off topic, I see that "Corbu is my Homeboy" is posted under my handle. Dafuq is a Corbu!?

Your post count title changes automatically. There is a unique one at 666. Blink and you’ll miss it!

EDIT Ah you missed it.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Magdalena on November 11, 2019, 06:51:57 PM
I meant pure oxygen instead of the normal intake air. Do I really present as that ignorant?  :???:

Off topic, I see that "Corbu is my Homeboy" is posted under my handle. Dafuq is a Corbu!?

Your post count title changes automatically. There is a unique one at 666. Blink and you’ll miss it!

EDIT Ah you missed it.
Yes, Tank, but that doesn't answer the question, "Dafuq is a Corbu!?"
 :shrug:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on November 11, 2019, 07:12:08 PM
I meant pure oxygen instead of the normal intake air. Do I really present as that ignorant?  :???:

Off topic, I see that "Corbu is my Homeboy" is posted under my handle. Dafuq is a Corbu!?

Your post count title changes automatically. There is a unique one at 666. Blink and you’ll miss it!

EDIT Ah you missed it.
Yes, Tank, but that doesn't answer the question, "Dafuq is a Corbu!?"
 :shrug:

I didn’t make make the list :Gaah:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Magdalena on November 11, 2019, 07:25:43 PM
I meant pure oxygen instead of the normal intake air. Do I really present as that ignorant?  :???:

Off topic, I see that "Corbu is my Homeboy" is posted under my handle. Dafuq is a Corbu!?

Your post count title changes automatically. There is a unique one at 666. Blink and you’ll miss it!

EDIT Ah you missed it.
Yes, Tank, but that doesn't answer the question, "Dafuq is a Corbu!?"
 :shrug:

I didn’t make make the list :Gaah:
:lol: OK.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 11, 2019, 08:07:13 PM
Off topic, I see that "Corbu is my Homeboy" is posted under my handle. Dafuq is a Corbu!?

I have absolutely no idea but to me, it looks like a name for a new species of vulture.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on November 12, 2019, 03:30:25 AM
OK, we've gotten considerably far off topic, but one more question:

Is there a way to turn that strange thing off? "Has a dragon in their garage", "Corbu blah blah blah", it appears under my name and in no way describes me. :shrug:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Bad Penny II on November 12, 2019, 03:46:24 AM
I meant pure oxygen instead of the normal intake air. Do I really present as that ignorant?  :???:

Off topic, I see that "Corbu is my Homeboy" is posted under my handle. Dafuq is a Corbu!?

Your post count title changes automatically. There is a unique one at 666. Blink and you’ll miss it!

EDIT Ah you missed it.
Yes, Tank, but that doesn't answer the question, "Dafuq is a Corbu!?"
 :shrug:

I didn’t make make the list :Gaah:
:lol: OK.

"Like his contemporaries Frank Lloyd Wright and Mies van der Rohe, Le Corbusier lacked formal training as an architect."

Whitney was an architect, probably still is, Corbu was an admired figure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier)

Ooooo, I'm in the Petrol head thread!
Quick, lets get out of here before we get oil on our toes.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on November 12, 2019, 05:00:32 AM
"Like his contemporaries Frank Lloyd Wright and Mies van der Rohe, Le Corbusier lacked formal training as an architect."

Whitney was an architect, probably still is, Corbu was an admired figure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier)

Ooooo, I'm in the Petrol head thread!
Quick, lets get out of here before we get oil on our toes.

These are the people, along with Charles Eames, I really, truly admire with a passion. The big name scientists inhabit lower levels on my Mount Olympus.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on November 12, 2019, 10:37:52 AM
OK, we've gotten considerably far off topic, but one more question:

Is there a way to turn that strange thing off? "Has a dragon in their garage", "Corbu blah blah blah", it appears under my name and in no way describes me. :shrug:

Lol. No you can’t turn it off. But it will change when you reach the next posting milestone.

User ranks are just fun titles we give to users based on their post count.  The following is a list of those titles and the post counts associated with them:

Since I've been outed here (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14069.msg319825#msg319825) ((https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2F29nfig9.gif&hash=8b35775c53db973cfea4a41f01c9d054608ebc88)), I'll carry on with my plan and request further ideas for user ranks. Not sure regarding how high the possible limit on post count based ranks is; some further experimentation regarding that will be necessary. For instance, I tried to set "Guardian of Reason" at 25,000 posts, because that was a rank that Tank had requested years ago (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=3351.msg102145#msg102145), and it didn't seem to work. I'll try it again, though, and maybe get it to stick, in which case we might end up with only one guardian of reason. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2F34nlee8.gif&hash=a951f4cfdfb0f7390126ba89d9d510956e2cdce7)

Some shuffling of the rank designations may take place, depending on the selection of titles that are suggested, and of course there's no guarantee that all titles offered will be used (I rejected at least one of my own earlier suggestions as not worthy, for instance). Though some of the fun is trying to figure out what the particularly gnomic ranks signify, I will also be willing to try to explain any that seem especially mysterious and/or vexing.

Above you will see that the not commonly lamented former member "AnimatedDirt" came up with a couple of more or less derogatory ranks "for the minority at HAF."

He had such a way about him, did AD. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi47.tinypic.com%2F51vl9l.gif&hash=551bbecd3028fdb6b51de023164d7e02fee712d3)

Not interested in stuff like that--more in things you wouldn't mind having associated with your posts, perhaps for 500 or 1,000 of them. In other words, try to come up with the good shit, my fellow HAFians.

Although I deviously carried out the revival of HAF ranks without telling anybody, I did consult with Tank once it had been done, asking for any thoughts in re revision or addition. Same applies here for the membership in general, including advocacy for reviving any of the old ranks that got dropped.

Or, we could leave it as it is, for now.

Below is the list as it currently stands:

Lurking - 0
Padawan Learner - 1
Beginning to See the Wedge - 10
Made of Star Stuff - 51
Has Received Bacon - 101
Doesn't Believe in Mother Goose - 151
Was God's Anointed But Took a Shower - 201
The Believer That Wasn't There - 251
Not Sure About That Kool-Aid - 301
Knows What LætusAtheos Means - 351
Out of the Religious Closet - 401
A Frood Who Really Knows Where Their Towel Is - 451
Rides the Sonic Rain Boom - 501
Can Define Jihad -551
Has Actually Read the Bible! -601
Despises Pat Robertson - 651
Evil Inside - 666
Not Afraid of the Exorcist - 667
Immune to Question Begging - 701
Corbu is My Homeboy - 751
Free of Childhood Neuroses - 801
Happily Surviving the End Times Since 365 - 851
Fought Curlett With Schempp and Won! - 901
Has Given Up Counting Angels On Pinheads - 951
Living a Thoughtcrime - 1001
Sprach mit Zarathustra - 1051
Yields Not to Kalamity - 1101
Pretty Sure the Black Cat Isn't in the Dark Room - 1151
Buddies With Uncle Bert - 1201
Taking the Road Less Travelled - 1251
Kickin' Back With d'Holbach - 1301
Doesn't Believe the Universe Was Made for Them - 1351
Thou Art God - 1401
Knows Who'd Win a Fight Between Superman and Batman - 1451
Not Defeated by the Dark Night of the Soul - 1500
Touched by His Noodly Appendage! - 2000
Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage - 3000
Blessing Her Holy Hooves - 4000
Guardian of Reason - 5000
Luxembourg Trembles! - 13,000
Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason - 25,000

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: jumbojak on November 12, 2019, 03:37:31 PM
I can't believe Recusant actually said this!

Quote
In other words, try to come up with the good shit, my fellow HAFians.

 ;D

It just sounds so out of the ordinary...
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 12, 2019, 08:55:12 PM
I can't believe Recusant actually said this!

Quote
In other words, try to come up with the good shit, my fellow HAFians.

 ;D

It just sounds so out of the ordinary...

:lol:

Don't underestimate Recusant's ability to surprise, I remember when he switched the User Rank tag to 'Silly Overlord' (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=15492.msg365585#msg365585) when I hit the...14,000 milestone I think? He acted quickly and stealthily. Recusant is not to be underestimated. :o

Beware the quiet ones, my mother always used to say! :P I just wish we would see more of that wicked sense of humour! ;)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on February 18, 2020, 06:45:02 PM
it's getting warm enough to brave the warehouse again.

tomorrow i take my cylinder head to the machine shop to explore some combustion chamber re-shaping.

the races in maine are in july. so far i have three children interested in riding a motorcycle over 100 mph.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on February 18, 2020, 07:17:22 PM
two of them already have the little kawasaki up to 103 mph.

(https://i.imgur.com/4eRALOAl.jpg)

i need to work on suspension,gearing, and carburation, and we'll see whether they can take the overall record of 107.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on February 25, 2020, 08:29:45 PM
all right. we've passed the equinox, and the peepers will be calling in 10 days. it's spring, and the first robin returned two weeksa ago, the fiorst redwinged blackbird last week, two killdeers and a meadowlark. at the same time, more or less.

i have just spent $400 each registering the two race bikes for the land speed races in maine this coming july. thanks heavens for pay pal credit. we're running a 1965 650 triumph bonneville in modified production gasoline, and  a 2012 250 kawsaki ninja in pure production 250 gasoline.

and tomorrow my cylinder head finally goes to my pet machinist. he has to re-work the combustion chamber that took a piston hit at 7000 rpm, and i then have to take the motor back down.

hats because tthere are four connecting rod bolts. i only remember tightening three of them. i am 99.9999 percent sure that i tightened the last bolt, but 99.9999 percent is not 100 percent. the whole thing is together, but it comes back down so i can look at that one bolt. then back up and it will be time to break in the new pistons.

the guy that makes my pistons told me that  i would use them up pretty quick. i thought he was exaggerating, but it turns out he was correct.

my machine has gone 135.259 mph, the fastest speed ever recorded for an old-school triumph bonneville. the overall record for any 650 british machine that burns gasoline is 139. if i can squeeze 140 out of this fifty-five year old motorcycle, it will have beaten every record in every class in which it could be entered. so we'll see.

in the meantime, i have two daughters and a son willing to aim for the 107 mph record on the 250 production OHC class, on our little kawasaki ninja. if they get comfortable, one of the three might get a shot at the riding the dinosaur.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: jumbojak on February 25, 2020, 10:35:28 PM
Don't forget to pack the parachute.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on February 25, 2020, 11:32:32 PM
parachutes are only required on cars over 170 mph. we won't be playing in that sandbox.

they're important for the faster classes, though. breedlove lost his at 500 mph in 1964, the year my machine was built:

3:36


i love it:

"for my next trick, i'll set myself on fire!"


 
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on February 26, 2020, 07:41:22 PM
oops

the machinist apprentice says my head has two bent valves and may need some seat re-work.

i didn't think it was that bad.

it's a unique head-- a 1973 9 1/2-bolt, which was built only for about six months. hard to find.

we'll see what they say when the boss looks it over.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on February 27, 2020, 03:45:22 AM
oops

the machinist apprentice says my head has two bent valves and may need some seat re-work.

i didn't think it was that bad.

it's a unique head-- a 1973 9 1/2-bolt, which was built only for about six months. hard to find.

we'll see what they say when the boss looks it over.

Machinist? I think you need a plastic surgeon for that head job.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on February 27, 2020, 06:56:27 PM
if it can be salvaged its the one i want. the head itself was not expenive, but its got some very finicky flow work, and tbat is hard to duplicate.

i have another head waiting in line at another specialist, but he's had it four years and i am not optimiztic that i will get it back in  time for july.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on February 28, 2020, 12:52:40 AM
You guys are nuts BR.  So alright.  I like gear head nut cases but I do question their sanity ....including my own when I was so heavily into that sort of madness.

I do hope that the machinist is fully aware the the valve seats are a major part of the flow regime.  Port work is appropriate for someone who knows the business but  the shape of the valve seats and the cuts on the valves themselves must marry appropriately with the port work.  The valve seats largely determine the flow rate at low lift intervals.   It is common for the head work guys to quote maximum flow rate at such and such a water level....usually 25 inches.  BUT and Big But...........Cylinder filling is a matter of  gross volume that predominantly includes the low and mid  lift characteristics. 

In fact the top lift is almost instantaneous and the dwell time and flow rate between low and mid lift provides more O2 flow than those impressive top lift figures can.  The whole idea is to stuff as much air containing oxygen into the combustion chamber as the induction system can accommodate.  Full on race engines use a fuel air ratio in the 12.5 to one region.  Adiabatic ratio is normally 14.7 but that is for the family grocery getter.  You can stuff as much fuel as you want into the combustion chamber but it will not burn unless you give it enough oxygen to do the burn rate. SO we have to get a bunch of oxygen laden air into the the chamber.  Whereupon we can burn more fuel and we can produce more piston pressure.  Burn rate too, is a biggie.  Combustion chamber shapes with respect to valve seat locations and flow rates do determine whether the fuel is completely or efficiently burned or not.  When the fuel air flies out of that valve seat.....where does it go and is all the potential energy of the burn and heat producing process complete. Not likely but it is a concept worth exploring. 

If your port guy has a wet flow bench and takes account of the chamber flow distribution pattern, you are ahead of the game

Maine? Where in hell in Maine do they do LSR record stuff.  My impression of Maine is of Lobsters and chowders...make that Chowdahs. And of course there is L.L. Bean.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on February 28, 2020, 04:13:49 PM
loring air force base

https://www.facebook.com/loringtiming/

the longest ztraight line on pavement you can race on anywhere in the worlz
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on February 29, 2020, 11:11:53 PM
I am out of the loop BR. I did not know about that facility. Looks like there are all sorts of machinery and lunatics there to do their thing.   I could get off on that kind of mentally deranged fun.

Is there a class for 50cc machines?  I used to try my damnest to promote moped racing here in Florida.  The reason was that it would be a cheap way to race and be able to attract a larger contingent of competitors.  I was usually laughed out of the bar when I tried to do that kind of promotion.

 The Europeans, especially the Italians and Spanish made some god awful fast 50cc machines.. I once had, on loan from the factory, an NSU 50cc full on racer that was really fun to ride. As I recall it had a five speed tranny and a fearsome little two stroke engine..   It was pretty quick for a mini tiddler. Could blow the Cushmans out of the water in a stop light grand prix. Could embarass the Harley 165s also.  Matter of fact so could the NSU Quickly which was an ordinary looking Moped with bike pedals and all.   I sold quite a few of them when I was a NSU/BMW dealer back in the dark ages.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on March 01, 2020, 06:41:30 PM
you can race anything so long az it has either 2 or 4 wheels. the safety people want to stay away from tricyclez.

the most interesting machinez to me are the ones where people do impozsible speeds with very little. ive seen 60s camaros do 256 mph, and a newer corvette do 269. but i was much more impressed with the engineer who got 64 mph out of an old puch moped.

theres a clasz for everything, and theyre divided up by engine capacjty, cam drive, faired or not, production or not etc.

at bonneville tbe current record for 50 cc iz a boosted streamliner that doez 147 mph. but the naked naturally aspirated machines are lezz intense.

the production based stuff is most  interesting to me, esecially the old britizh machinez. if i ran a newer OHC 650 with a turbo and a fairing, i tbink the record is around 160 something. but my 55 yearold 650 pushrod twin is the fastest theyve ever gone at 135.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on March 04, 2020, 07:24:00 PM
I don't understand a word of this, but perhaps you guys will find it interesting.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on March 04, 2020, 09:04:59 PM
That CVVD engine is a real trip! I wonder what's under the hood of my Kia Forte. I only bought it for the long warranty.  :-[
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on March 04, 2020, 09:33:59 PM
well, that's cooler than shit.

im fascinated that this mechanical system is showing up on . . . hyundais.

i'm reminded of the sophisticated combustion chambers that honda put into their 1970s civics that made them so clean. too often the really progressive changes only show up in high-end platforms, whether its a blower bentley or a passive solar house. the future is in using the high-zoot stuff in the lower level applications so more of it gets on the street.

i remember trying to figure out how one could generate variable valve timing by using lobes that advanced and retarded relative to the shaft that supported them. but it never occurred to me that you could mess with duration by changing the speed of the lobe relative to the shaft. that's impressive stuff.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on March 11, 2020, 08:59:47 PM
ah well

my machinist took a look at my cylinder head nd said, looks worse than you thought. . . two bent vlves, a cracked guide and the edge of the combusiton chamber smooshed in a bit.

he said, got another head?

no. this one has a lot of expensive port work done on it.

well, we can duplicate the port work if we have this head here. if we can't fix it.

so i said, okay, i'll see what i can find.

my cylinder head is a one-year-only antique, cast in 1971 for the 72-73 model year. before 1973, they had nine bolts. after 1973, they had ten bolts. for mine, they had cast-in bosses for ten bolts, but only drilled nine of them. an intermediate in other ways as well, and very hard to find after almost 50 years, but very desirable because it can be ported for my 35 mm carbs, rather than the stock 30 mm.

so i looked at ebay just to see, and there were three of them for sale last night. unheard of luck. one had suffered the same thrown rod as mine and looked just as bad, but the other two seemed pretty good, considering. i told my wife i was buying one, an she said

if you don't buy both of them, you'll just be in this same predicament the next time you blow up the motor.

(wives like that are hard to find, and harder to keep. keeping mine is a permanent project that sometimes exceeds my skill set.)

so i bought one on the buy-it-now listing and put a bid on the other:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Z2IAAOSwlJdckpn3/s-l1600.jpg)

and we'll take it from there.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on March 12, 2020, 04:22:13 AM
BR your wife is an extraordinary individual.  Tell her that some old dude in Florida said so.  You can also suggest that the old dude is something of a veteran observer of the human assortment of character traits.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on March 12, 2020, 06:24:58 AM
lol

yes she was a surprise to me and continues to be

we d bothbeen with other people for ten years wgen we met. we both got divorced and ran away together into the unknown. pushinh thirty years now.

its been a pretty wild ride
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on April 15, 2020, 07:05:10 PM
well, i went to pick up my cylinder head yesterday. it was repaired, as good as i could possibly expect it to be

(https://i.imgur.com/lTsUWGdl.jpg)

this head took a a piston smack at somewhere around 7000 rpm, which works out to some 3000-plus feet per second, i think. i'd have to calculate it out. the timing slip said 131 mph through the mile, and it blew before i got the mile-point-five. that would have been close to a record run, and i was still tuning. anyway, the piston pressed the rim of the combustion in, bent two valves, and cracked one of the valve guides. the cases were toast, and the crankshaft was iffy, but we got through those hurdles already.

this head has had pretty extensive port work done on it by one of only two people in the united states who still do it. one of them is mostly retired (he's had a head of mine waiting to work on for five years now), and the other one has scaled back so far that he's not taking anynmore business for at least the foreseeable future. nobody else around with the interest or knowledge to work on 60 year old motorcycle heads anymore unless they'e harleys.

so i was really really hoping that this one could be repaired. and its beautiful.

(https://i.imgur.com/h95J3cCl.jpg)

he took a ball peen hammer to the edge of the chamber to rough th emetal back into place, and then used an  ancient pneumtaitic tool from the 30s or 40s to move the aluminum back into position so he could repair the rim where it comes close to the piston's squish band. the old air tool was designed to peen the insides of piston skirts out to take up clyinder clearance without disassembling the motor-- you just dropped the pan and reached up inside the clylinder. nver heard of such a thing.

we were thinking that he would have to put in new valves seats, which is an extremely finicky job on these heads. the seats are trapezoidal and cast in place. can't just press new ones in. but he ws able to seat thje new valves without difficulty and without sinking them

these heads are made with old aluminum metallurgy, and they bend like butter. normally that's a problem, because theyre hard to keep flat, but when youre reshapoing a combustion chamber with a hammer it turns out to be an advantage.

anyway, so now we re ready to go-- valves, guides, springs, and seats:

(https://i.imgur.com/rWzOM5El.jpg)

and i still have two spare heads of this one-year-only design to rebuild if i blow the motor up again:

(https://i.imgur.com/zSgFVBkl.jpg)

hope not to do that
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on April 16, 2020, 12:58:45 AM
Billy the exhaust valve is almost always the culprit. Post mortems almost always find that the damned ex did not get closed soon enough for the piston to get to TDC or a few degrees before. Cams with a lot of overlap is the underlying problem.  We need plenty of overlap if we intend to rev the engine. Tit for tat.

The trick is to make the damned EX close before the piston collision.  This happens at high revs only, unless there was some kind of galling or other problem in the ex guide, a heavy pushrod, etc.  Using a stronger spring on the EX valve is common enough but then that puts an unfavorable load on the push rod, camshaft, and other busy parts.

 The drill is to find some bee hive springs that will work in your Trumpet head.  Those springs are progressive in that they get stronger as they are compressed.  Conventional coils have linear progression of counter force.  Bee hives have a curved progression in which the early lift is less resistent and the late lift is much stronger..........so as to get the damned exhaust out of the way when the piston gets there.

Because there is less work done in early lift, there is lessened coincident demand on the output of the engine.  In general, at least a measurable increase in out put is usually seen. 
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on April 16, 2020, 01:40:58 AM
I'd also comment that the piston isn't going all that fast at the top of the bore, given that it is close to changing direction, so the speed isn't so much of a factor. Late valve closing would be. Yer gonna have to start doing what the top fuel guys do and replace all kinds of parts after every run, and the valve springs would be on the list.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on April 16, 2020, 05:06:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rWzOM5El.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zSgFVBkl.jpg)

Sorry that this is not a meaningful contribution to the technical discussions in this thread, but these are beautiful objects in themselves. I am inspired to incorporate those striations (are they cooling fins?) into a sculpture.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on April 16, 2020, 10:56:38 AM
lol

im afraid my piston to head clearance problems had to do with the rod becoming detached at the bottom end and not zlowing down at all az it headed north. the issue was a failed rod bolt, down there at tge bottom.

icaruz, i actually do run beehive springs in an earlier head, and im planning on those in the futyee with this one. but on this iteration i ran with the springz the cam people reccommended, and so far theyve held up.

DL, i really hope not to have to do track rebuilds on this thing. LSR is more of an endurance event than all out drags, because the courze length is more than a mile. but we ll see where we go from here. got to break in the new pistons asap.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on April 16, 2020, 11:03:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rWzOM5El.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zSgFVBkl.jpg)

Sorry that this is not a meaningful contribution to the technical discussions in this thread, but these are beautiful objects in themselves. I am inspired to incorporate those striations (are they cooling fins?) into a sculpture.


interesting you would fix on that, but i m understanding your viewpoint more. yes, old british castings are works of sculpture,  much more than modern piecez. the technology was personal and4 hands on, so much so that the cases for one of my machinez has the initials of some long dead foundry worker inside, in reverse, where he scratched tbem into the sand mold before pouring the metal.

tbeze all came from a technological culture not far removed from 1930s art deco, and the completely exposed motor was as much a part of the vizual prezentation as the swoopy sheet metal or the color of the paint. weve lost that form of art work, at least in motor vehicles. its one of the reasons i love these old things so much

yes they are cooling fins. let me see if i can locate some imagez of 1920s radial aircraft engines. some of them were exquisite in execution
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on April 16, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
Thanks for that explanation, billy rubin, and sorry again for introducing one of my obsessions as a tangent to the discussion. One of the artists I admire very much is Eduardo Paolozzi, who was also inspired by industrial processes and materials.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rogersg/5271369678

I came close to being a student of his at the Central School of Art in London, but that's a story for another occasion. At least I met him once at the opening of one of his exhibitions at the Marlborough Gallery, where I bought one of his serigraphy pieces.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on April 16, 2020, 05:12:16 PM
lol

im afraid my piston to head clearance problems had to do with the rod becoming detached at the bottom end and not zlowing down at all az it headed north. the issue was a failed rod bolt, down there at tge bottom.

icaruz, i actually do run beehive springs in an earlier head, and im planning on those in the futyee with this one. but on this iteration i ran with the springz the cam people reccommended, and so far theyve held up.

DL, i really hope not to have to do track rebuilds on this thing. LSR is more of an endurance event than all out drags, because the courze length is more than a mile. but we ll see where we go from here. got to break in the new pistons asap.
Alrighty then, that's a different story. I recall the rod bolt part, now.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on April 16, 2020, 05:21:30 PM
Billy the exhaust valve is almost always the culprit. Post mortems almost always find that the damned ex did not get closed soon enough for the piston to get to TDC or a few degrees before. Cams with a lot of overlap is the underlying problem.  We need plenty of overlap if we intend to rev the engine. Tit for tat.

The trick is to make the damned EX close before the piston collision.  This happens at high revs only, unless there was some kind of galling or other problem in the ex guide, a heavy pushrod, etc.  Using a stronger spring on the EX valve is common enough but then that puts an unfavorable load on the push rod, camshaft, and other busy parts.

 The drill is to find some bee hive springs that will work in your Trumpet head.  Those springs are progressive in that they get stronger as they are compressed.  Conventional coils have linear progression of counter force.  Bee hives have a curved progression in which the early lift is less resistent and the late lift is much stronger..........so as to get the damned exhaust out of the way when the piston gets there.

Because there is less work done in early lift, there is lessened coincident demand on the output of the engine.  In general, at least a measurable increase in out put is usually seen.

you know , icarus, theres a bit more to say here.  i clay the pistons before i run the motor and i make sure i have a minimum of 080 piston to valve clearance on the exhaust, 060 on the intakes. im running 296 degrees of duration measured at 020, (stock is 272), so az you point out, it matters. my lobe centers are 106/104 intake/exhaust on the current cams, retarded from the makers recommended 105.

my fastezt runs were at 109/106 on the previous cams but unlesz i start swapping out of spec camwheels 106/104 iz as close as i can get.

the beehivez i have in a spare head are reaaly nice, hut the head itself waz mis-cast. ive never gotten more than 112 mph out of it. and this one thats been fixed goes well over 130 in the mile . im reluctant to change whats been working. but i might take those springs out if i need more rpm from the race motor. right now ive geared it to crozs the line at about 7250 rpm, with one 8000 rpm 2-3 shift to keep the engine speed up. piston speed iz way high when i do that, over 3000 fps easy.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on April 16, 2020, 05:23:37 PM
lol

im afraid my piston to head clearance problems had to do with the rod becoming detached at the bottom end and not zlowing down at all az it headed north. the issue was a failed rod bolt, down there at tge bottom.

icaruz, i actually do run beehive springs in an earlier head, and im planning on those in the futyee with this one. but on this iteration i ran with the springz the cam people reccommended, and so far theyve held up.

DL, i really hope not to have to do track rebuilds on this thing. LSR is more of an endurance event than all out drags, because the courze length is more than a mile. but we ll see where we go from here. got to break in the new pistons asap.
Alrighty then, that's a different story. I recall the rod bolt part, now.


even so, what you suggezt is a real consideration.. i treat the rod bolts as throwaways now. i wont torque them more than once. a news set of four bolts is less than a hundred dollars. not much less, but cheaper than a blow up,

so its new ones every tear down. and a marked set to re-use only for mock ups.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on April 21, 2020, 01:48:27 PM

Sorry that this is not a meaningful contribution to the technical discussions in this thread, but these are beautiful objects in themselves. I am inspired to incorporate those striations (are they cooling fins?) into a sculpture.

well i was looking for decent shots of radial engine finning as an art form for you, and look what i found

(https://www.motoart.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_slide_show/public/product-slideshow/Continental-Radial-Engine-1.jpg?itok=byTvugcS)

i have spent quite some time just looking through thi stuff

https://www.motoart.com/products

beautiful repurposing
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on April 21, 2020, 02:54:28 PM

Sorry that this is not a meaningful contribution to the technical discussions in this thread, but these are beautiful objects in themselves. I am inspired to incorporate those striations (are they cooling fins?) into a sculpture.

well i was looking for decent shots of radial engine finning as an art form for you, and look what i found

(https://www.motoart.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_slide_show/public/product-slideshow/Continental-Radial-Engine-1.jpg?itok=byTvugcS)

i have spent quite some time just looking through thi stuff

https://www.motoart.com/products

beautiful repurposing

Thanks so much. I love this kind of recycling of industrial parts.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on April 23, 2020, 09:47:19 PM
time out for a tri p into the past. did th erear brakes on my little pickup. they were drums. i used to do drums all the time, back when drums were common. falcons, hudsons, old trucks,  now everything has disc brakes, which are vastly easier but less mechanically interesting.most all my motorcycles have drums, which i frankly prefer to discs. not as much stopping power but no hydraulics.

anyway, the little ranger had 10-inch units on the back. springs, shoes, clips, cables, all th estuff that i used to spend a lot of time on.

(https://i.imgur.com/q9LbvrCl.jpg)

usual stuff with a wheel cylinder on top

(https://i.imgur.com/S7LaAArl.jpg)

the starwheel had an absolutely needlessly complex tensioner. the old ones just had a blade, no need for sill cables and such.

(https://i.imgur.com/dHd5asxl.jpg)

both sides had suffered either blown cylinder seals or axles seals at some time in the past, and the interiors were coated in goo. whoever did the brakes last hadn't bothered to even clean that crap out.

the most significant change for me going down this ancient mechanical dance with machines was . . .me. even with the truck jacked up on wheel stands as high it would go, i still had to lay down, sit up twist around, and do the drum brake dance that in the past used to be easy. not any more.

but i got to take the number two son away from his school work and teach him how to do drums on the left side.

but only after i did the right side so i wouldn't look like a fool trying to figure out where all the parts went.



Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on April 24, 2020, 04:55:35 AM
....

but only after i did the right side so i wouldn't look like a fool trying to figure out where all the parts went.

Watching you figure it out would be a valuable learning experience for him. Good troubleshooting skills are a useful asset to acquire at a young age.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 20, 2020, 10:28:11 PM
damn its time

so i speent yesterday on the triumph race bike, working on the rear brake so it wouldhave the least drag during a run. im more or less happy with that, for the moment.

then i went to the little ninja, the old 2007 250 OHC machinethat the kids race. it needed a new tire in the back and a re-gearing.

ilast time the kids rode it, it gotup to 104 mph and then would bounce off the rev limiter at some 14000 rpm. that was with a 45 tooth rear sprocket.

i just ulled the wheel off to do a new tire and switched to a 43 tooth sprocket. my kids did 104 mph on the 45, and cxouldn't go any faster-- the rev limiter wouldnt let hem past 14000-some rpm.

but with the 43-tooth sprocket, they can theoretically hit 108 at the same rpm. and the record is only 107.

the girls set the one-mile record last spring (it was open, no previous record), but now they have something to beat. this is them

(https://i.imgur.com/4eRALOAl.jpg)

the number 2 son is rqcing as well. he can wear my leathers (with accompoanying comedy) but well hav to buy hinm his own glovses and helmet.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 20, 2020, 11:18:38 PM
14k RPM is wound pretty tightly! I could get 105 out of my old Harley, but it bounced all over the place. That was on old highway 126 between Newhall and Fillmore. That road is all grown up and two lanes each way, now. What I did was pretty risky, because back then it was one lane each way, and had few spaces to pass. People took big chances and there were fatal crashes- a lot- several a year. At least if I got hit I would have been dead in an instant.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 20, 2020, 11:37:39 PM
damn

i blew an ac belt in newhall once. very expensive.

14000 is nothing on a modern OHC with an oversquare motor and pent roof combustion chamber. they all do it.

this little ninja goes 10 000 on thecwaybto work.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 21, 2020, 12:51:15 AM
I grew up in Saugus, CA. We used to go to Atomic Auto Wrecking to watch fenders rust as entertainment. That's a joke, although there really was a wrecking yard by that name. There was nothing out there when we moved there in '56(?). Maybe 20k people in the whole Santa Clarita Valley then. It's ca 300k now, and the people drive like maniacs. I have siblings who still live there and I hate driving to visit.

And back on the topic of RPM, I wonder what that old Harley chundered out? 5k? That's probably generous.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 21, 2020, 09:09:47 AM
probably. so

i have a buell with a 1203 sportster in it and it runs up to 6000 or so. but its newish, onlook y twenty something years.

mthe old stuff wouldnt do that without risking terminal drama
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 22, 2020, 11:01:52 PM
lol

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-aZ7WgcN7qb4%2FTNzremuwCtI%2FAAAAAAAAGi4%2FIudtONhLs1Y%2Fs1600%2FDrag%2Bbike%2B1968.jpg&hash=f4b583a7026dbc84bff255ad8bda52561a9661d2)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 22, 2020, 11:04:50 PM
^ I sure hope that the seat is just currently not on and will be installed later or this is a Salt Flat bike, because that looks pretty damned uncomfortable!  :o

Plus if the primary drive belts part, there's going to be pain there, too.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on May 22, 2020, 11:46:58 PM
That bike has my name on it but it ain't my bike.  It looks like a suicide machine with that spindly assed front brake that might only be big enough for a moped.  The thing with a belt drive looks suspiciously like a blower.  A rigid frame too? yikes that dude is likely to meet Jesus before he planned to.  Or if that belt shreds, as DL mentioned, the guy is likely to become a eunuch and therefore practically useless on dates.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 23, 2020, 02:26:56 AM
That bike has my name on it but it ain't my bike.  It looks like a suicide machine with that spindly assed front brake that might only be big enough for a moped.  The thing with a belt drive looks suspiciously like a blower.  A rigid frame too? yikes that dude is likely to meet Jesus before he planned to.  Or if that belt shreds, as DL mentioned, the guy is likely to become a eunuch and therefore practically useless on dates.

:lol: I figured legless; maybe I thought of the wrong leg!
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on May 23, 2020, 05:16:39 AM
That bike has my name on it but it ain't my bike.  It looks like a suicide machine with that spindly assed front brake that might only be big enough for a moped.  The thing with a belt drive looks suspiciously like a blower.  A rigid frame too? yikes that dude is likely to meet Jesus before he planned to.  Or if that belt shreds, as DL mentioned, the guy is likely to become a eunuch and therefore practically useless on dates.

What a disappointment, Icarus. I assumed it was the younger you in that photo.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 23, 2020, 11:27:03 AM
thats a harsh seat even for drag racing. i think its open underneath to make room for the huge balls it takez to ride something like that

and h e doez have some kind of blower on the front as well.

interestingly almost nobody runs rear suspension or front brakes at all.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on May 24, 2020, 12:34:47 AM
I am pleased to notice that you do have front brakes on your LSR bike.   
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 24, 2020, 01:04:46 AM
well i confess not any more

i took them off so i could go faster. wind reziztance and all that.

but i have really good boots i use to drag on the azphalt when i reach the pits
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 24, 2020, 03:59:54 AM
well i confess not any more

i took them off so i could go faster. wind reziztance and all that.

but i have really good boots i use to drag on the azphalt when i reach the pits

Well then, take that caliper off! That's got to be worth .3 MPH, or something at the top end. The weight means nothing at that point, only wind resistance. I don't know what you wear on your ride, but maybe you ought to wax your boots...and everything else. Stick with us "kid", we'll figure you into the record books. Hmm, how do we get some cred for that design work?  :???:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 24, 2020, 09:16:14 AM
if you buy me a can of fuel i ll paint your name on the side of the bike
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 24, 2020, 03:52:34 PM
if you buy me a can of fuel i ll paint your name on the side of the bike

I don't think you want "Dark Lightning" painted on there, but that's better than my old handle here, which was "Fireball".  :D
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 24, 2020, 05:26:59 PM
lol

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 24, 2020, 05:37:05 PM
lol

Yeah, not an image we want to see.  ;D
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 26, 2020, 03:23:25 PM
off to warehouse in a bit to disassemble amotor to tighten one bolt i cant remember tightening. i know its tight, but if it isnt i blow the motor up. so well see how long it takes me to get to the crankshaft and back up. next time ill take better notes.

if for some awful reason i can't get the race bike together ill go back with the commuter:

(https://i.imgur.com/HHwuxKll.jpg)

this is a 1997 buell, a 1203 cc sportster motor in a non-harley chassis. they were wonderful machines when buell was building them. now harley has abandoned support, nd the buells come with high tech rotax engines. not the same thing. i use this togo to work on when the triumphs and BSAs and the norton are all broken.  its as reliable as a stone doorstop but doesn't have the  idiosynchracies that make the old british stuff interesting. it even has an electric start. but it always works.

i took this one to the races last septmber and ran it down the mile. i had three different gearbox pulleys to work with. i geared it tall at first and it wouldn't go over 120 or so mph. very disappointing, because i wanted to get close to the record of around 140 and it was obvious it wasn't going to pull the gearing to get there. so i went up two teeth on the front pulley and it ran 132. very nice. but that was all it would do. i didn't need to even try the smallest pulley.

the bike is very comfortable to ride up to 100 mph, but after that its a bear to hang on. the tank and bars are so high that the wind hits your chest and tries to lift you up and off, so yuore fighting to stay on and cant concentrate. but below that speed its very nice to ride. good suspension, lots of torque, and excellent (to me) handling. i could put a fairing on it but then id be competing with 1000cc  speed machines at close to 180 mph.

but im headed out to get the norton out in a bit. slower than th ebuell, but much more interesting.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 26, 2020, 09:13:06 PM
pratt and whitney R-4360 Radial "Corn Cob" Engine

(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

four banks of seven cylinders. ttoo fuzzy to see the finning well, but it looks really graceful
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 26, 2020, 09:20:12 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

 :sherlock3: Ok, what am I looking at here...looks like a colony of metal organisms of some sort.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 26, 2020, 09:41:33 PM
so i split the race motor to check the connecting rod bolts. its a pain in the ass to do, because im certain that i tightened all four, but if i didnt ill be in trouble. so i did.

its been sitting in the stand a while like this, until i got the cylinderhead issues straightened out

(https://i.imgur.com/E0CI4gzl.jpg)

so first, out with the primary drive. its a rubber belt from newby n britain. my next fastest competition uses stock chains, in oil, and wears them out every five or ten miless

(https://i.imgur.com/Bi2i4CVl.jpg)

once its out, i dont have to pull out the gearbox, just take off the covers to get at the hidden bolts

(https://i.imgur.com/1JD3Mjdl.jpg)

then the crankshaft pinion has to come off. i can leav the camshaft pinions on, because im not changing timing, and theyll stay with the right side when i split the motor

(https://i.imgur.com/KxSP0NOl.jpg)

jugs off, pistons oput, just need to pull th ebolts holding it together

(https://i.imgur.com/VWI9hHcl.jpg)

anf then tap it apart with a rubber mallet

(https://i.imgur.com/qXug27yl.jpg)

the crank is a billet piece, machined from a solid steel blank. lots of hand work

(https://i.imgur.com/azatCqZl.jpg)

its a pic of art, though. light and very strong. this one already suffered a blowup at 131 mph, and came back from the dead. a stock crank could not do that.

(https://i.imgur.com/bjktXFBl.jpg)

after the blow up, i stole the engine cases from a roadrace project and stuffed it full of thehandmade stuff to make a new motor. now th eroadrace bike is on the back burner.

(https://i.imgur.com/42QCovnl.jpg)

. . . and of course, when i put a torque wrench on the rod bolts, all of them were fine. the whole teardown was completely unnecessary.

(https://i.imgur.com/I2xQrTvl.jpg)

so its back together, and then i clay the pistons to make sure they dont smack into the valves with this new valve timing im runnin.

(https://i.imgur.com/LQ1Vwq2l.jpg)

but in the meantime, it s a beautiful day, so i took the norton out for the first time this spring. started first kick, not having run since last fall, but it always does that.

(https://i.imgur.com/so1p6Qml.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 26, 2020, 09:50:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

 :sherlock3: Ok, what am I looking at here...looks like a colony of metal organisms of some sort.

its an aeroplane motor. there are four separate engines, each shaped like a flower with seven petals, all bolted together into a line. each of those finned pumpkins has a separate piston and connecting rod in it. th eblack tube is carrying the fuel from the carbs to the cylinder this is what just one might look like:

(https://hars.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PrattWhitney-R1830-Radial-Aero-Engine.jpg)

what it does is turn a single flower-shaped radial engine with seven cylinders into a long combination engine with 28 cylinders. you can't see it, but the propeller is off the image to the right.

radial engines are very short(not this one) and so they can fit into aeroplaces without making them long. look at this fockewulfe with a radial:

(https://www.super-hobby.com/zdjecia/3/1/0/26259_rd.jpg)

compare it with this messerschmidt that has an inline engine

(https://www.flight-manuals-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Me109-photo.jpg)

the old radial engines were as much a work of art as they were exercisesin engineering design.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 26, 2020, 10:19:49 PM
Oh it's an airplane motor!  8) Ok, I knew for sure it couldn't be a motorcycle motor so at least I got that right! :P
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Magdalena on May 26, 2020, 11:57:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

Oh it's an airplane motor!  8) Ok, I knew for sure it couldn't be a motorcycle motor so at least I got that right! :P
:snicker:
It looks like something from The Matrix.
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 27, 2020, 01:16:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

Oh it's an airplane motor!  8) Ok, I knew for sure it couldn't be a motorcycle motor so at least I got that right! :P
:snicker:
It looks like something from The Matrix.
 :popcorn:

:chin: Now that you mentioned it...

Spoiler: ShowHide
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/93/14/df/9314df00aa63401df4feeb4aeaa9da13.gif)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DeficientEmptyBufeo-max-1mb.gif)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 27, 2020, 02:07:54 AM
Hey Billy, I used to write work instructions to go with my designs. We had places for the assembler and a quality tech to sign after an important operation. Maybe you'll want to think about that. When I worked as a mechanic, I couldn't tell you how many times I went and checked oil pan drain plugs, just like you are doing here with the rod bolts. Never found a loose one there, either.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 02:22:57 AM
Oh it's an airplane motor!  8) Ok, I knew for sure it couldn't be a motorcycle motor so at least I got that right! :P

actually the boundaries between airplanes and motorcycles can be blurred in a lot of cases. here is a P51 mustang, designed in 1940 and used with a rolls royce merlin that made up to 1800 horsepower:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/P51_Mustang_-_CHino_Airshow_2014_%2814349568311%29.jpg/1200px-P51_Mustang_-_CHino_Airshow_2014_%2814349568311%29.jpg)

the mnotor was an inline V12, liquid cooled. they made a lot of these motors, and sometimes australians saw off two of the cylinders and put them into a motorcycle frame:

(https://dn3bmh8yk8vvw.cloudfront.net/VSzQTjdzQTYTtCwFtUbKem4A3n8=/9571.jpg)

theyre always australians, for some reason.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 02:35:08 AM
Hey Billy, I used to write work instructions to go with my designs. We had places for the assembler and a quality tech to sign after an important operation. Maybe you'll want to think about that. When I worked as a mechanic, I couldn't tell you how many times I went and checked oil pan drain plugs, just like you are doing here with the rod bolts. Never found a loose one there, either.  :thumbsup:

i keep a logbook for recording changes to the motor i make, things like cam timing, piston to valve clarances, and sprocket sizes and jetting and so forth. it has never occurred to me to write up a checklist, but that is a very good idea.

what i normally do with a motor is assume that i have no brain, and work accordingly. for example,  all the rod bolts are painted one of four colors--red, blue, green, or yellow. a red bolt goes into a hole in one rod painted red. that rod fits onto the crankshaft in a position matching a line of red paint on the cases. if there is no oil in the gearbox, i paint NO OIL on the cover, and clean it off when i fill it.

i paint all the critical bolts after i torque them so if th epaint marks don't line up, i know theyre loose.

i painted my rod bolts too but then i put the motor together and couldnt see them anymore.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Magdalena on May 27, 2020, 02:43:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

Oh it's an airplane motor!  8) Ok, I knew for sure it couldn't be a motorcycle motor so at least I got that right! :P
:snicker:
It looks like something from The Matrix.
 :popcorn:

:chin: Now that you mentioned it...

Spoiler: ShowHide
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/93/14/df/9314df00aa63401df4feeb4aeaa9da13.gif)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DeficientEmptyBufeo-max-1mb.gif)


Spoiler: ShowHide
(https://i.gifer.com/2gJ.gif)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Randy on May 27, 2020, 03:26:59 AM
It looks like something one of my evil villains would concoct. It's time for the Wildcards to jump in and save the day!
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 27, 2020, 03:48:32 AM
Oh it's an airplane motor!  8) Ok, I knew for sure it couldn't be a motorcycle motor so at least I got that right! :P

actually the boundaries between airplanes and motorcycles can be blurred in a lot of cases. here is a P51 mustang, designed in 1940 and used with a rolls royce merlin that made up to 1800 horsepower:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/P51_Mustang_-_CHino_Airshow_2014_%2814349568311%29.jpg/1200px-P51_Mustang_-_CHino_Airshow_2014_%2814349568311%29.jpg)

the mnotor was an inline V12, liquid cooled. they made a lot of these motors, and sometimes australians saw off two of the cylinders and put them into a motorcycle frame:

(https://dn3bmh8yk8vvw.cloudfront.net/VSzQTjdzQTYTtCwFtUbKem4A3n8=/9571.jpg)

theyre always australians, for some reason.

Back in the early '70s, there was a guy named Ed Woods who put an Allison V12 into a '64 Chevy Malibu. It wasn't as fast in the quarter as one would expect. I guess traction was an issue. I don't seem to be able to find what it turned in the quarter, though. I had a far more pedestrian '64 Malibu SS with a 283, 4GC Rochester, Powerglide trans and glass packs. I did a lot of suspension work to make up for the low power. Few people with big engine cars could get away from me when road racing. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/throwback-thursday-this-wild-1964-chevy-malibu-funny-car-was-a-street-legal-1710ci-allison-v12-powered-monster/ (https://www.hotrod.com/articles/throwback-thursday-this-wild-1964-chevy-malibu-funny-car-was-a-street-legal-1710ci-allison-v12-powered-monster/)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 04:03:00 AM
handling makes up for a lot of power. smokey yunick was king of nascar driving hudsons, back when all hudsn had to offer was a flathead six. im told the steering system on th ehudsons (and presumeably the suspension) was extremely good, and that combined with yunick beinng who he was let him run around the fords and chevrolets. i put a 350 chevrolet into a 1950 hudson once, and it was okay in a straight line but not impressive on th ebraking.

ive never run a 4GC, but ive heard of them. an interesting insrument. ive only run quadrajets in the eight cylinder stuff i used.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on May 27, 2020, 04:56:04 AM
pratt and whitney R-4360 Radial "Corn Cob" Engine

(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

four banks of seven cylinders. ttoo fuzzy to see the finning well, but it looks really graceful

I know it gets tedious, but I am cursed with this compulsion to make connections with art. Here is a sculpture by Berrocal:

(https://i.imgur.com/Tukb37w.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 27, 2020, 05:05:08 AM
handling makes up for a lot of power. smokey yunick was king of nascar driving hudsons, back when all hudsn had to offer was a flathead six. im told the steering system on th ehudsons (and presumeably the suspension) was extremely good, and that combined with yunick beinng who he was let him run around the fords and chevrolets. i put a 350 chevrolet into a 1950 hudson once, and it was okay in a straight line but not impressive on th ebraking.

ive never run a 4GC, but ive heard of them. an interesting insrument. ive only run quadrajets in the eight cylinder stuff i used.

Well, I got one cheap and the manifold, too. Under extremely hard cornering, one side of the carb would starve 4 cylinders, the other 4 would get too much fuel. Of course the other guys had similar carburetors, but they were generally straight-line rockets, because they were raised in the back for the bigger tires. So they couldn't corner that fast. I'd lose miserably in a race on the freeway. One of my friends had a '62 Grand Prix with a 389, tri-power and a 4 speed. I don't know the rear end ratio, but it topped out at about 130, and got there quickly. Pontiacs don't rev that high without lots of prep, and he eventually spun a rod bearing. I could get my Malibu to 120, but it took over a mile, with that 3.08 axle ratio.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 05:40:46 AM
pratt and whitney R-4360 Radial "Corn Cob" Engine

(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

four banks of seven cylinders. ttoo fuzzy to see the finning well, but it looks really graceful

I know it gets tedious, but I am cursed with this compulsion to make connections with art. Here is a sculpture by Berrocal:

(https://i.imgur.com/Tukb37w.jpg)

its not tedious at all. the mind of the artist is in every inspired engineer.

lookat the rhythm in both pieces. its like three dimensional music.

but im not even really sure what art is.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 05:50:17 AM
Quote

Well, I got one cheap and the manifold, too. Under extremely hard cornering, one side of the carb would starve 4 cylinders, the other 4 would get too much fuel. Of course the other guys had similar carburetors, but they were generally straight-line rockets, because they were raised in the back for the bigger tires. So they couldn't corner that fast. I'd lose miserably in a race on the freeway. One of my friends had a '62 Grand Prix with a 389, tri-power and a 4 speed. I don't know the rear end ratio, but it topped out at about 130, and got there quickly. Pontiacs don't rev that high without lots of prep, and he eventually spun a rod bearing. I could get my Malibu to 120, but it took over a mile, with that 3.08 axle ratio.

how did you figure out what was causing the fuel distribution issue? i know some people weld ridgesinto the floors ofthe manifolds trying to redirect liquid fuel to the lean side, but you have to know whats happening first.

i remember the six pack manifolds. they now say that theyre not a lot better than a single four barrel, but thats comparing them to something like a newish holley. and you still cannot beat them for cool.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on May 27, 2020, 06:40:19 AM
Billy when you run out of LSR things to think about, think about where the torque curve is. Max torque will occur at 5250 and after that it begins to decline.  You have seen plenty of dyno graphs, right?

In the case where you have a course where you start from zero and then build up speed, the way you roll the throttle on will make a difference in velocity gain. petting the throttle a wee tad in the mid range can be advantageous.

You can fiddle with this equation when you need something else to ponder.   Torque (inch pounds) = (HP x 63025)/RPM........you can transpose the equation to get...........(RPM x Torque)/63025= HP  and so on...

I am thinking of the Kawasaki and all those revs that you mentioned before. .............I miss all this stuff. It was great fun when I was heavy into the madness.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 10:55:34 AM
In the case where you have a course where you start from zero and then build up speed, the way you roll the throttle on will make a difference in velocity gain. petting the throttle a wee tad in the mid range can be advantageous.

9kay, now what exactly do youmean?

i have only four gear, with open pipe reversion around 3000 to 3500. most of myhorsepower is higher up.

i shift into second around 6500 rpm, third around the same, then i try to  holdthe throttle open until to 7500, so the rpms stay high afterthe shift.

then i just hold it wfo to as close to 8000 as it wil go and get out of the wind.

whatexactly are you suggesting with throttle position?

why 5250?
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on May 27, 2020, 12:07:23 PM
... three dimensional music.

I like that.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on May 27, 2020, 01:14:21 PM
pratt and whitney R-4360 Radial "Corn Cob" Engine

(https://i.imgur.com/kaUQC2P.jpg)

four banks of seven  https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195794/pratt-whitney-r-4360-wasp-major/cylinders. ttoo fuzzy to see the finning well, but it looks really graceful

I'm not sure that's what you've said it is. There are 8 cylinder heads along the length. There could be 7 radially arranged of which you can see 5. Here is the engine  https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195794/pratt-whitney-r-4360-wasp-major/

(https://media.defense.gov/2006/Oct/16/2000540112/780/780/0/061016-F-1234S-002.JPG)

I think the engine in your picture is either a stunning bit of photoshop or a truly insane bit of engineering!
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 03:40:14 PM
i think youre right about that. it looks like TWO 4360s stuck together

heres the 4360 without the rococco

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spannerhead.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F08%2FR-4360_2.jpg&hash=658805dce83fe3842c5b229cc5587f8a2b77eb41)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 27, 2020, 04:19:28 PM
Quote

Well, I got one cheap and the manifold, too. Under extremely hard cornering, one side of the carb would starve 4 cylinders, the other 4 would get too much fuel. Of course the other guys had similar carburetors, but they were generally straight-line rockets, because they were raised in the back for the bigger tires. So they couldn't corner that fast. I'd lose miserably in a race on the freeway. One of my friends had a '62 Grand Prix with a 389, tri-power and a 4 speed. I don't know the rear end ratio, but it topped out at about 130, and got there quickly. Pontiacs don't rev that high without lots of prep, and he eventually spun a rod bearing. I could get my Malibu to 120, but it took over a mile, with that 3.08 axle ratio.

how did you figure out what was causing the fuel distribution issue? i know some people weld ridgesinto the floors ofthe manifolds trying to redirect liquid fuel to the lean side, but you have to know whats happening first.

i remember the six pack manifolds. they now say that theyre not a lot better than a single four barrel, but thats comparing them to something like a newish holley. and you still cannot beat them for cool.

The floats are paired on a common body, and when the fuel goes to one side of the bowl, the needle closes on the seat. I think that the metering jets on one side would still have fuel but the other side would run out of fuel. If I had had fuel injection, I'd probably have killed myself.

Six packs and dual quads make great sound, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 04:54:14 PM
If I had had fuel injection, I'd probably have killed myself.

its never too late
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on May 27, 2020, 05:07:56 PM
i think youre right about that. it looks like TWO 4360s stuck together

heres the 4360 without the rococco

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spannerhead.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F08%2FR-4360_2.jpg&hash=658805dce83fe3842c5b229cc5587f8a2b77eb41)

It's an amazing piece of engineering.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 27, 2020, 08:21:40 PM
If I had had fuel injection, I'd probably have killed myself.

its never too late

 :o Killing myself!?






:lol: I know what you really meant! Nah, I'm at a point in my life where testosterone and gasoline are no longer miscible.  :sadshake:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 08:26:53 PM
lol

you just think youre old because your joints hurt all the time and you cant close your fingers when you get up
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 27, 2020, 10:00:50 PM
lol

you just think youre old because your joints hurt all the time and you cant close your fingers when you get up

I have noticed that my hands won't completely close in the morning. Fortunately I only have arthritis in my hands, feet and back, but no other joint pain.  ::) TBH, I don't think that I could ride the motorcycle like you do. My hands won't hold something like the handlebars for that long, even after I had carpal tunnel release surgery. That got rid of the source of the neurological damage, at least halting it.

The saying goes, "If you're over 50 and you woke up in the morning with nothing hurting, you died in your sleep!"  :P
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Randy on May 27, 2020, 10:53:34 PM
lol

you just think youre old because your joints hurt all the time and you cant close your fingers when you get up

I have noticed that my hands won't completely close in the morning. Fortunately I only have arthritis in my hands, feet and back, but no other joint pain.  ::) TBH, I don't think that I could ride the motorcycle like you do. My hands won't hold something like the handlebars for that long, even after I had carpal tunnel release surgery. That got rid of the source of the neurological damage, at least halting it.

The saying goes, "If you're over 50 and you woke up in the morning with nothing hurting, you died in your sleep!"  :P

So you're saying I'm old too? Well, nuts. You just shattered my fantasies.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 27, 2020, 11:00:05 PM
with me its not arthritis, its that the tendons that work my fingers have lost elasticty and get kinks in them overnight from resting over the knuclkle joints

so when it try to move my fingers they wont flexeasily. when i open the hands the tendons make my fingers move in little jerks while the kinks ride over the knuvckle joints.

after an hour or two9of use they loosen up, moztly
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on May 28, 2020, 02:01:02 AM
with me its not arthritis, its that the tendons that work my fingers have lost elasticty and get kinks in them overnight from resting over the knuclkle joints

so when it try to move my fingers they wont flexeasily. when i open the hands the tendons make my fingers move in little jerks while the kinks ride over the knuvckle joints.

after an hour or two9of use they loosen up, moztly

I know woodworking guys who dip their hands in melted paraffin to help with that and arthritis. Here's a video made by some occupational therapists. Note that the four dips help make the wax thick enough to more easily peel off, though they don't say it in the video. I'll be buying one of these tubs, eventually. If one were concerned with cleanliness, they could wear a nitrile or latex glove. They talk about scars but I'm not sure how that equates to "dirty". After my many years of working with my hands, a lot of scars are simply disfigured by other scars. My most "famous" one was when I burned my hand on a Volvo exhaust manifold.  :o I had the part number burned on in reverse. That was in the '80s, so it's gotten "hash marked" away by other scars.  ;D Should've taken a picture, but I'm not one to brag about "battle scars"- they were just part of the job.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on May 28, 2020, 04:54:57 AM
with me its not arthritis, its that the tendons that work my fingers have lost elasticty and get kinks in them overnight from resting over the knuclkle joints

so when it try to move my fingers they wont flexeasily. when i open the hands the tendons make my fingers move in little jerks while the kinks ride over the knuvckle joints.

after an hour or two9of use they loosen up, moztly

The middle fingers of my hands occasionally behave in the same way, with an odd locked-up behaviour, but there is no pain. Weirdly enough, although it is winter now (last night it got to -1°), I've noticed a sudden improvement and my hands are behaving normally. No doubt my doctor will provide a logical explanation, as she always does.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on May 28, 2020, 05:21:33 AM
I must be the lucky one. You young 60+/- year old whippersnappers are having bouts with arthritis of the hands. My mornings with my hands are the same as you describe but the symptom waited until I was well past 80.  That really pisses me off until I get the fingers loosened up so that they function well enough.

I have not tried the paraffin yet.  Hot water soak works pretty well. In some cases I use epsom salt and hot water. 
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on May 28, 2020, 09:45:05 AM
i never had stiff fingers when i ran bees

i m getting stung again so maybe that will help
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 10, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
motor is together

(https://i.imgur.com/L419WDOl.jpg)

even though te races have been postponed, i want to get this in one piece so i don't lose pieces of it. i'm guessing i'll have time to do new pipes now.

this particular motor is 50 years old (the frame it goes into is five years older), but it still pulls up to 135 mph. i need about four mpore mph to reach my own goals, but i don't think that will cme frm horsepower. i just need to practice getting smaller than i am to stay out of the wind.

this fellow managed to go 136 on this one, but his is a custom frame and the seating position below the wheel isn't legal for my class. still, he's only one mph faster than me, and i would heve beaten him had i not blown my motor up.

(https://i.imgur.com/dR0x4gKl.jpg)

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on June 11, 2020, 12:29:13 AM
Billy that dude is too big for LSR records.  The pretty lady he is with could go faster than that big brute. He has a cool looking scooter. The lay down handlebars are good for the purpose.  He has rear brakes..... I hope that your scoot has them too.

I am not too sure about the rigid frame layout at speed.

Did you know that round sections, like the fork lowers and uppers have a coefficient of drag of 1.2.  A rectangular section has a Cd of 0.8............Those numbers go against the usual perception of drag factors but true nonetheless.   So alright already you can't have rectangular fork lowers.  or.....could you?


Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 11, 2020, 01:07:22 AM
he is indeed big. and his new bride is indeed a pretty woman. she has a brain, too, which is more interezting to me. hes not actually that big-- zhe is tiny

his machine runs in the altered class-- ooen-- any changez permissible. i run in modified production, which means i could put a license tag on mine abd run it on the street.

taking that kind of limited machine and beating the high zoot altered bikes is where i like to be.

i do have a back brake. not that i need it. but its there e. i have considered aerfoiled fo.j rk tubes, but there is not a lot acvailable except fir expensive antique vincent stuff. and i run rear suspension. its not really needed for pavement but comes in handy on poir surfaces like dry lakes or the salt.

mosrly i think i can get more bang for the buck by making myzelf aerodynamic. ive hit diminizhing returns on the machine, i think.

losing more weight will let me squeeze down flatter. the more the better.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on June 11, 2020, 02:12:37 AM
Have you considered waxing the leathers (and everything else)? Maybe the run is too short to benefit from the air slipping over more easily over a waxed surface? Then again, maybe look at the surface of a golf ball. It's spinning in flight, though. I remember Kenny Bernstein's TF dragster having some sort of effects, as well. I don't follow drag racing any more, so I don't know if that helped him much. You're at a point where any speed gain is going to be a suite of incremental changes. Having to wait many months between trials is too long a time, and I'm betting you can't afford a wind tunnel. Are you allowed to "fair" the appendages that are out in the wind? Just tossing out ideas...
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 11, 2020, 05:04:17 PM
nobody in the real world can afford a wind tunnel, although ive sckured the net for dizcussions and results

the people who do wind tunnel work dont share what they learn.

havent thought about waxing. im not sure the viscosity of air is enough for that to help. certainly i could fair in the front forks with a fender. im allowed that while still stating within the naked class. no other aero devices in front of the rider are allowed.

i could add a stck headlight to sneak in a bit of rounding, but thats it.

the oeople who go very fast tell me that a front fender iz wasted until im going lots faster than 135. but i think ive added substantial slipperynezz by going with cast wheels. thats 80 round wire whirling spokes ive replaced with six aero vanes, and a reduced diameter as well.

disnt have a chance to tezt them much because i blew up on the firzt full power run.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on June 12, 2020, 06:22:50 AM
DL the waxing bit is fine for conventional noodling.  Doesn't work that way.  For example. waxing a sailboat bottom is sure to make it slower. That goes against conventional thinking. 

Boundary layer principle has the air closest to the surface adhering, or is in a stalled state.. Thinking in terms of layers of blankets or say onion skins, the farther away from the surface the faster the air flows and the discreet drag of the layers diminish.  In any case, BLs  "dirty" mess of pipes and motors and wheels and human bodies makes the whole thing problematic and practically undefineable........absent a wind tunnel. Even then the ambient conditions cause variables....Humidity, temperature, atmospheric pressure, and so on.

Early in my long ago college career I aspired to be an aeronautical engineer.  For practical reasons I dropped out of that specialty and into an ordinary mechanical engineering curriculum.  I did learn some stuff about how air and water impede the motion of solid objects during the Aero classes.   
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 16, 2020, 08:14:07 PM
the biggest problem with what i do is indeed the messy shape. its not hard to split the air open, but very difficult to smoosh it back together behind me.

the resut is that i carry a wedge of turbulence behind my ass at any real speed, and turbulence means low pressure.

low pressure means the impedence of the frontal area isn't balanced by an equal return at the back, and so the faster i go, the more i carry a negative force sucking me and my machine back into my wake.

the spinniong spoked wheels xert a similar problem, causing a squeezing effect of low pressure along the sides of the machine that th emotor must work against to move forward. i switched to aero three-spoke katana wheels to improve that.

none of this air pressure stuff is signioficant or even noticeable at lower speeds, but above 100 mph its the most important thing.

i could add a kamm tail behind me, and a fairing in front, andprobably go to 140-plus with no motor modifications. but that isn;t what i want to do.

i want to do it the hard way-- all tuning and rider skill-- making the run penetrate the wind by positioning my body at the optimum, and doing it with a 50 year old power unit.

this is like fly fishing. its not catching a ten pound fish that matters. its catching a ten pound fish on a three pound line.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 16, 2020, 08:21:17 PM
and its a red letter day. the motor is back in the frame.

(https://i.imgur.com/n8remUOl.jpg)

it always tajkes me three tries to do this, because i can't put the motor into the frame if the rocker boxes are on, and i cant pt the head bolts in if the motor mounts are tightedned.

the pattern is that i assemble the motor, try to put it in the frame, remember that i can't do it with the rocker boxes on. so i takeoff the rocker boxes, put it in the frame, tighten all he motor mopunt bolts, then remember tht the head bolts wont go in unless the motor is tipped to the side. so i take the motor mount bolts out, put in the head bolts, and then i put in th emotor mounts and tighten it all up.

i do this every single time, no matter how many times i put a motor together.

ive done it wrong so many times that the wrong sequence is the habit.

go figure.

stupid is as stupid does.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 17, 2020, 02:30:59 AM
pushrods in, valves adjusted, oil in the motor. put the carbs on

(https://i.imgur.com/SFphJCtl.jpg)

this machine had old style amal carburetors on it when it was new. nice old instruments for their day, but limited in terms of tuneability by modern standards. some people prefer them and they can go pretty fast. the man i'm trying to beat uses amal GP carbs, an ancient 1950s design that got him up to 139.226 mph on gasoline.

i don't have any tradition that makes me want to use the old amals, so i run keihin FCRs, a jap[anese flat slide unit with an accelerator pump. excellent throttle response. the slide is on rollers so its friction-free, so i use them with just a pull setup, as opposed to the original push-pull. these things are light years ahead of the old amals in sophistication, but theyre still a 30-year-old design. big on racing two-stroke machines these days, and high-speed four wheelers.

one carb for each cylinder. this gives me maximum airflow, and makes the resonant tuning of the exhaust pipes easier, because there's no interference between cylinders in the return waves through the exhaust gases. stil, these carbs have quite a bit of reversion at aound 3000 rpm because of the open pipes. you can watch a cloud of fuel form around the bellmouth, get blown backwards and then sucked back in, corresponding with the mixture suddenly goinf rich. my solution is to just not ride that slow.

while the carbs are relatively space-age, the ignition is straight out of 1942

(https://i.imgur.com/H1WfGekl.jpg)

this is an old fairbanks-morse magneto, designed to run old stationary welders and industrial motors way back when my faily still ran mules. i think two cylinder john deere tractors ran them too. its mounted in an ARD magneto housing used by flat trackers in the 1960s.

magnetos are completely self-contained. this one is run by an enclosed rubber belt that takes its drive ff the exhaust camshaft.

(https://i.imgur.com/BURcZoGl.jpg)

 its fixed advance, no retard function for low speeds, and so it used to be a bear to start. but the faster it turns, the hotter the spark. ive watched videos of people lighting cigars with these spark from these things on test mounts. i've messed with it in a number of ways, including slotting the mounting holes so i can adjust the ignition timing with a rubber hammer and switching to a no-rotor setup with forked spark plug wires that let me fire four plugs at once, two er cylinder.

i have an electronic ignition from new zealand for thismotorcycle, but i've never installed it because this magneto works so well. iits primitive, though,and under a timing light you can see a lot of spark scatter, maybe as much as four or five degrees. not a surprise for an ignition run by a rubber belt. but until i have no other options to go faster, i'll keep running this because its so simple.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on June 17, 2020, 05:28:14 AM
Billy the carb velocity stacks are almost surely too short.   I did a lot of experimentation way back in the dark ages.  Placing a tubular spacer between the carb and the intake port is a matter to be fiddled with.  I once managed to set a world record for 125 cc hydroplanes with this gimmick.

The deal is that when a wave front hits the atmospheric end of a tube, there is a reversion wave that is propagated back toward the origin of the pulse.  With just the right lengths of pipe you can get a positive surge of atmospheric energy that can help fill the inlet port.   You can do it with stacks but the pipes between the carb and the port can cause a very noticeable cooling effect of the induced charge. It is not unusual to see frost on the intermediate tube when the variables have been sorted.

So what is so interesting about a cool charge?  It can contain more O2 that a hot charge.  The more O2 in the combustion chamber the more fuel you can burn in a discreet power cycle.

Finally the Jap bikes have perfected the calm air box.  On the dyno I have seen considerable improvements in output with the calm air box as opposed to the stack bells being exposed to atmosphere directly.  You have to have a lot of turbulence going on right behind that head. That is not good for an ideal induction system. Consider doing something that can furnish calmer air to the intake bells. 
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 17, 2020, 06:21:59 PM
icarus, your observations on the intake are well taken. i've experimented a little with intake extensions

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fr8Zi0ljl.jpg&hash=d33941a9f38140a9e5678d9c3a09583acbd55747)

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzPG3C43l.jpg&hash=7801a0ac855702ab964472cbd18c804b119ac35c)

but i haven't explored it yet. all my time has been occupied farther forward. im a bveliever, though. my exhaust pipes are 34 inches long, and i lose 4 mph if i depart from that length two inches in either direction.  an air box would be useful, too, bot i havent tried to fabricate one yet. the carbs are splayed from the head and thereisnt much to attach a box to, so its not a simple job. one advantage of an airbox would be that i could clean up the confusion between the motor and the rear tire, covering the oil tank and keeping grit out of the carbs.

i dont yet even know whether i'll get to race this year. all the effort might not be worth it. if maine is shut down, i'll go to arkansas. thats less than 700 miles, as opposed to 1100, so thats a plus.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 23, 2020, 08:33:52 PM
bang.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Tank on June 23, 2020, 10:20:25 PM
bang.


Excellent!
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 24, 2020, 12:27:13 AM
i'm paid up for the loring timing association races 1100 miles awy in maine for the beginning of september. if they cancel, i might have time to register for the east coast timing association races in arkansas the first week in october.

that's actually closer, but in the past has been much more crowded.

but dunno. no point in building a racebike unless there's a place to race it.

i also have a roadrace machine to build that will let me do stuff within a hundrd miles. all i have to do is put it together

(https://i.imgur.com/GaSZ08Gl.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on June 24, 2020, 05:56:32 AM
Billy, tell me that you are not going to put the engine in that long wheelbase bicycle with the odd ball frame.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 24, 2020, 11:40:17 AM
lol

no thatz an old sturmey archer tandem bicycle i bought for ten shillings when i was about 15 years old.

but it has possibilities

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on June 24, 2020, 11:51:33 PM
^ Friggin lunatic kid. His parents ought to beat him................well maybe not because he has involved himself in a creative effort. 

Well alright I was also a lunatic kid.  When I was about 17 I did not run away and join the circus. I did run away and join a carnival outfit that traveled all over the upper mid west.  The name of the outfit was Royal American Shows.  The carnies wintered in Tampa where I lived at the time.  I worked at the corn game.  That was one of the main hustles. It is a Bingo game with a big tent and a lot of glitz. The carnies called the bingo game the corn joint.  That's because the player uses corn kernals to cover the called boxes on his card.   Bingo was illegal in many locations but by calling it corn game they managed to get by with the scam...............

Getting to the point about lunatic kids, it happened as follows.  The outfit had a "motordrome", one of those large wooden cylinders in which crazy people rode motorcycles inside "the wall".  Vertical madness held in place by centrifugal forces.  It came to pass that one of the motor drome riders left the show and they needed another rider.  It was known around the camp that I was an experienced rider even at the age of 17.  Sure enough I was recruited to ride the wall.  Cool ! The pay was better and I thought myself indestructible as 17 year old males often do.  I had no problem with riding the wall, it was actually kinda fun. Not as good a thrill as sex.  I could ride motorcycles and had less skill at seducing young maidens.  Then my parent heard about my foolhardiness and put a stop to my burgeoning career as a daredevil. Back to the corn game I went.

After the season was over I went back to Tampa to finish high school and try to learn more about seduction techniques.  I never did get the hang of that skill.

Before the next year began I was contacted by another carnie outfit who needed a "globe rider".  The globe is a wire cage shaped in a global fashion.  The rider gets into the globe and zooms round and round and does the ultimate stunt by riding up and overhead.  Yep you can do that unless the bike craps out at an inopportune time.  I tried out in the globe and did very well but I decided that riding upside down was dumber than even I could  deal with.  I did not sign up with that carnie outfit because I had partially come to my senses, not entirely but at least enough to pass on the wonderful opportunity of being a super star dumb ass. ...........................

And here I am still able to walk and talk and make up lies.  In the case of the motor drome and the globe tryout, that is the honest truth, not one of my lies.  So when I say that some kid is a dumb ass, it is because I recognize my own history as a youthful dumb ass have some understanding. .

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 25, 2020, 01:15:56 AM
you actually rode a wall of death? i have never met anybody who ever did that

what was the machine? even now they all seem to be antiques
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on June 25, 2020, 07:41:11 PM
The preferred bike for riding the wall was the ancient Indian scout. It had a leaf spring front suspension. It made a lot of noise and one of the drills for the rider was to temporarily cut the throttle while retarding the spark.  That would make loud exhaust pops which the crowd seemed to think was a failing engine, and more hazardous to the rider.   All of which was pure show biz.

The Globe bike was an ancient ring ding whose maker I do not recall.  Perhaps a CZ, Pugeot or, perish the thought, a Villiers engined machine.  I only rode the globe about two times in a try out session.  Easy enough when you get up to speed at the largest diameters but a bit tricky to get going from a stop at the bottom of the cage.

If you fell off the bike while on the wall you would slide around the wall until your velocity progressivly diminished until you fell to the bottom. In the cage, if you fell off, the wire bars would reduce you to hamburger.  Even as a dumb kid I took that into account and said ; no thanks.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on June 25, 2020, 07:52:43 PM
ive never seen a wall but there was a one ring circuz that came through once with a cage.

two riders in it at a time.

in my opinion that iz hazardous

wont you tumble if you come off in the wall? i fell down at 115 mph once and i bounced three times
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on August 25, 2020, 09:33:36 PM
well ,the july races were cancelled, but the september event is on in ten days.

took the machine out to the airstrip to break in th erings

(https://i.imgur.com/FchI11Ml.jpg)

its been together since june but nowhere to run it competitively

(https://i.imgur.com/D51GReYl.jpg)

also took out the daughter's 2007 ninja to re-familiarize the number two girl with the controls

(https://i.imgur.com/Efa93p3l.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/2RtoQZ7l.jpg)

its a quick little OHC 250. the older girl has the one mile record at 103, but i've raised teh gearing to see if we can beat the 107mph at the mile point five. last time they were bouncing off the rev limiter at 103. literally could not go any faster than that.

the man i want to beat ran his 1950 custom triumph to 139 out west. then he abandoned triumphs and now is perfecting this 1948 vincent:

(https://i.imgur.com/W8EGVoSl.png)

he's got the vincent up to 136 so far but hasn't used 4th gear yet. should be a fast machine when he gets th ebugs worked out.

and my former competition for the fastest triumph 650 has his machine parked. he also built this really nice double that has only been out one time before the rider lost interest. thats a shame, because this could eat the harleys in the 1350 class:

(https://i.imgur.com/HfbraFul.png)

there's a great story behind the double. i spotted it uncompleted on ebay for $700 with nine hours to go and called him up to tell him. he ended up buying it and then completely redoing all the critical engineering. if he'd get his rider in gear, this macghine could run 175-plus.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on August 26, 2020, 05:41:08 AM
Billy I do believe that the Vincents had advanced technology of the day but were over rated.  I routinely smoked a Vincent on a short road course with my AJS 500.  Later My NSU Super Max 250 defeated, more than once, a loud mouthed fat guy on a Black Shadow. My rider at the time was a much better pilot than the dumb ass on the Vincent.  In fact the NSU had much better handling and much better braking power than the Vincent.

As for the double.......Power output is good but aero drag is more influential.  Aero drag is a function of the square of velocity.  For example the square of 130 MPH in feet per second is about 190 feet per second square which is.......36,519..........ft/sec velocity at 175 MPH is 66,200 ...........about 1.8 time v^2 of 130... Can the double achieve that much more out put and will the tires be able to hold well enough to get there?   

Yeah I know that I am a naysayer but consider that I am a curmudgeanly old man.

I will be rooting for you and the daughter even though I think that you are both crazy for doing the LSR stuff. 

What the hell?  I think that Moto Cross is also crazy and even stupid. Boring too.  It is more a test of extreme physical endurance than bike superiority. I do respect the physical ability of the competitors but not their intellectual brilliance.  Trials riding is a whole other ball game.  I urge you to encourage your daughters to try that instead of LSR.  Trials exhibit finely tuned skill and not so much about brassy balls.

I apologize in advance for being such a critical old bastard....................Go for it , both of you. 
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on August 26, 2020, 05:06:43 PM
motocross and soccer are the two most strenuous physical sports that exist. in treadmill tests of motocross riders a number of years ago, the researchers found that riders were routinely exerting themselves well past normal pain thresholds. there's a reason they break down like cowboys at an early age. i'd love to learn trials but if i live long enough i still have hang gliding to  master first. i wanted to pick that up years ago but i don't have enough time left to do it all.

that vincent is a 48 1000cc unit. he started with nothing more than bare cases. obtained a transmission and top end from somewhere else. there's nothing else on the bike that came out of the factory-- it's all handmade in this guy's two-car garage in south california.

(https://i.imgur.com/y80exjtl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/b8iacJMl.png)

hard to tell what it will do. he's running nitromethane, which took his 650 triumph from 139 to 175mph. personally i don't care for super-fuel. it makes you go super fast but i like doing difficult things with limited resources instead.

on the double, the reason the triumph bonneville got that name was because of the 261mph triumph streamliner at the salt flats in the 1950s. with enough aero, a vintage double can do very well. but both he and i are more interested in the naked class, where all you are permitted is a motor and a frame. slower, but harder. i frankly don't know what the double will do. i saw it do 142 mph with no trouble at all the only time it was out, but then it inverted a timing cover seal and lost oil pressure. the mechanic didn't spot the twenty-minute fix and retired the bike from the event. it hasn't been back out. then i beat the 650 record held by his rider and the guy threw in the LSR towel. now the double-- and the 650-- are avante-garde decor in the rider's ride-in bar in new york. may never compete again.

we'll see what we can do. i have my machine lowered until my toes drag the ground changing gear, and the final drive is set up for 135. if it will pull that i'll drop a tooth on the rear sprocket and go for 140. if i do that it will have broken every speed record for every naked 650 british machine anywhere in the world, for the past 70 years, on gasoline, fuel, custom, production, vintage, modified, altered, all of them.

or if i blow it up again i'll be set way back, because i'm out of money now.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on August 27, 2020, 01:09:53 AM
Billy, although I am a bit of a naysayer, I still encourage you to follow your dream. I will be rooting for you when the next LSR event comes around.

Naysayer part:  I am skeptical that the use of nitro would propel a bike from 139 on gas to 175 on nitro.  That is because of the latent heat availability between the two fuels and the very large difference in drag factors due to velocity. 

As for the HRD builder, I salute him for his enthusiasm and obvious ability to build from scratch with ancient parts and his own real ingenuity.  I mean what the hell. There are enthusiasts for all sorts of oddball stuff....I am thinking of the cult that likes the Tribeta car from communist era east Germany.  The 2CV and other such stuff.   I confess that I could become interested in a 1960s era Saab coupe which was a three cylinder two stroker that actually worked quite well.  I had a borrowed one for a couple of weeks way back in the day.  It was a fun little car.



Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on August 27, 2020, 03:32:08 PM
lol

id love a 2CV. and a traction avante as well.

and if we re really wishing for weird, i want a 1957 sugga. saw one in sweden many years back and fell in love with them.

the 175 is real, and it was 5he same machine he did 139.226 on with oxygenated fuel. lots of modifications for nitro, of course. he gets it running on methanol and then just opens a valve from the tank. no float in the carb, direct gravity feed to the manifold. scary stuff.

fascinating, really, feeding completely liquid fuel into the cylinderz. ill see if i can upload a video he made. my telephone wont copy the url

here.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on September 04, 2020, 03:47:08 AM
drove 1089 miles to maine and got the girls racing.

the 19 year old did 103 in pure production 250, and got her name in the record book. the 23 year old runs tomorrow. both of them alternate between riding and doing college clssses online in the truck.

i ran three times. the first was a snoozer at 5500 and 103, then another slow run at 6500 and 113, then opened it up for the first time and clocked 130.

not too fast but it was without tuning and old plugs. tomorrow well see what we can move it up to.

and there were artiodactyls! driving out at sunset my older daughter said look theres a moose. i whipped a u turn and damnwd if there wasnt a big cow right off the side of the road

(https://i.imgur.com/pCWV9fWl.jpg)
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on September 10, 2020, 05:57:18 PM
the girls did well

(https://i.imgur.com/u0vZvDtl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/U8ui1b5l.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SWt0QL7l.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ctPX26fl.jpg)

in my humble opinion, correct upbringing of one's children requires that you allow them a means to test themselves without fear of failure. in something like land speed racing, my kids get an opportunity to look for a measure of excellence in which they better themselvves without requiring them to beat someone else.

they're racing against themselves, not other people. sure, there are records to beat, and i personally focus on that. but in th ebig picture, what you're doing is establishing a personal best and then working on your own abilities to attemtpt to exceed it and stretch your envelope.

both my girls now have their names in the record books in different classes on this machine, and no matter what they choose to do in the future, that is an achievment that can't go away.



Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on September 10, 2020, 06:11:55 PM
That's very cool, billy! I had a friend growing up who had a record for the most hub caps stolen. But a police record is nothing to be proud of. :lol:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on September 10, 2020, 07:43:14 PM
lol

i dunno

i have one from 1973 in malaysia for possesion of opium and opium smoking utensils.

sort of went with the time and place, you know
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: hermes2015 on September 11, 2020, 04:43:00 AM
lol

i dunno

i have one from 1973 in malaysia for possesion of opium and opium smoking utensils.

sort of went with the time and place, you know

 :boaterhat:
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on September 27, 2020, 11:27:30 PM
dammit i'm tired of 2020. i'm hanging out  in 1966 instead.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi817.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz96%2Fquakerthink%2FBSA%2520Thunderbolt%2F20150716_124423_zpsuiofhhie.jpg&hash=3163181a5daf64d65beafcf547caa9695036c09f)

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi817.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz96%2Fquakerthink%2FBSA%2520Thunderbolt%2F20150716_124404_zpsipr92rq6.jpg&hash=db3bbd3b2c82cdca7f42bdf26d2e37f986e13aa1)

(https://i.imgur.com/qQ6d2kfl.jpg)

^^^this is my 1966 BSA A65 Thunderbolt, a 650 cc vertical twin with a single carburetor cylinder head, as opposed to the twin carb lightnings and hornets and spitfires. the Tbolt was a kinder, gentler BSA, easier of fuel, esier to maintain (a little) and easier to keep in tune, they said.

mine is a bitsa, a 1966 Thunderbolt frame and tinware with a 1972 A65 engine slipped in there. the history of old motorcycles never accompanies their possession, so i'm assuming that sometime in the past this engine suffered a blow up, and the owner found a 72 to put in instead. the thing is, only the core of the motor is 72-- cases, crank, and head. all the accessories and covers came from the 1966.

so working on this thing is an exercise in detectuive work. the engine fasteners are all modern UNF thread forms, and th ebolt sizes are standard SAE. but the frame and tinware is all pre-SAE whitworth threads and british Standard bolt sizes. so you have to keep in mind that you need two completely different sets of tools to work on it. plus two parts manuals, and two shop manuals.  some things come from a 1966 state of mind, some from a 1972.

for most subjects that would not matter much, and even for british motorcycles a matter of ten years is often unimportant.

but not these ten years. around 1970 was a revolutionary period for the british motorcycle industry, and lots of changes occured, and lots of others . . .  didn't. the japanses showed up and were a game changer, standardization of measurement appeared out of nowhere, and old wilson was PM.

like he said, a week is a long time in politics, and ten years turned out to be a long time for BSA. at the end of it they went out of business.

so just to make it awkward, the original 1966 tank sprung a leak. so i took the tank off my 1969 Thunderbolt:

(https://i.imgur.com/yFmm1Onl.jpg)

which doesn't run, and am using it for the 1966.

i couldnot get the ignition to work correctlty. this thing still had the original dual points and mechanical spark advance unit, but 50 years of wear had done a number on the cam, and i could make the coils spark just by pushing the cam to the side with a screwdriver. i like points, but if the unit is worn out, it will make you hate yourself for trying to fix it.

(https://i.imgur.com/P7NCgTWl.jpg)

so out with the points and in with an electronic ignition unit i forgot that i had. i used it on my race bike before i put on teh magneto, and it's vastly more sophisticated than this old nail needs. but i am not getting any younger, and i would rather ride this old pig than fix it.

then i'll braze up the hole in the fuel tank and see about starting the 1969 thunderbolt for the first time.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on September 28, 2020, 12:43:03 AM
I love that nostalgia bit Billy.  I never had much use for a Beezer except for the Gold Star single (dirt tracker).  That was a most impressive machine for its day.  I was more attracted to the Matchless G50, or my Ajay.   In any case your BSA is a cool machine for the current scene.

And don't apologize for putting a reliable ignition system in place of the BTH or Lucas crap that it came with.  Times have changed.  In the old days Lucas electrics were the brunt of all sorts of disrespecting jokes. "Why do limeys drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators."  No more.  The Lucas fuel injector modules, for example, are favored by many of the top tuners. .  They are reliable and accurate.  The Brits have come a long way because they can.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on September 28, 2020, 02:47:23 AM
As one of my Brit friends said, and I've probably said it here before, "Ah yes, Lucas Electronics, the Prince of Darkness!".  ;D Though I surely can't fault that distributor cam for wearing down, given the time frame and the number of times that thing has revolved.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on September 28, 2020, 02:20:22 PM
the thing is, pointz are fixable in wAys that a transiztorized syztem isnt. on the old BsSAs. one half of the whole ignition can fail and you can ztill get home.

ive fixed worn out automatic advance units with piecez of beer can, and walked up and down the highway looking for wire and piecez of metal to use in emergency repairs.

a hall effect reluctor and silicon switching devicez ibside an epoxy pot dont offer the same forgiveness.


but this one is well and truly worn out, and modern ignition points dont last az long az the old onez. so its time.

i stl have two ither BSAs with pointz. one had electronic ignition and i took it out and put pointz back in because it wouldnt start.

anyway well get it running tomorrow i think
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 02, 2020, 10:18:59 PM
i swear to god BSAs were designed just to annoy me in some fundamental and primitive way.

no room for the control box on top of the oil tank, because there's still a zener diode up there. and i still have the really nice leather tool pouch on the right, which i want to keep. but the strap the holds up the side panels did the trick:

(https://i.imgur.com/MFO9QmRl.jpg)

not many places to hold the ignition coil but there was bare room up under the headstock to fit the tiny little german thing that this smartfire came with:


(https://i.imgur.com/mKahZvul.jpg)


and of course the trigger plate and rotor fit right where they're supposed to. there's a little green light on the control module to indicate power in, the control box, and a little red LED on the trigger that you can use to static-time the ignition. really a nice package:

(https://i.imgur.com/MX1MmYZl.jpg)

so i got it installed and then went looking for the instructions on setting the trigger in the timing cavity that used to hold the points. not anywhere i could find, and i  looked and looked. i tried using the instructions that came with the twin-plug pazon setup i have for when i give up on my ARD magneto in the race bike, but it uses a different rotor design and i couldn't figure out whether to have the various lights on or off and where to do it. so i emailed the manufacturer in new zealand, who was instantly prompt and helpful and sent me instructions for the smartfire unit i'm putting on, and answered my questions about the non-stock wiring i like to use.

anyway, i put it all together and it wouldn't start. wouldn't even try to start. i re-checked the timing and it was where i thought it was supposed to be, and both plugs happily sparked when i kicked th emotor. there was compression, 160 on the right, 170 on the left, so i figured the valve clearances were probably okay. so i took off the old concentric carburetor and went through it, several times. poked my little number78 drill bit through the idle jet, blew compressed air through all the holes, put it back on and it still wouldn't start. fuel was coming out the drain plug, and coming out the little hole in the tickler, so i knew it was getting there. just to check i squirted a bit of starter fluid into the cab and kicked-- th emotor fired right up and then died after a second or two.

fuel! i said, because it was obvious. so i took the carb apart again and looked it over carefully again and checked everything again.

did this over and over, to the point where i went looking for a mikuni to put on, which is not easy to do on a stinking thunderbolt, but i was ready to try. you can put the carb on, but heavens knows how you could put on an air filter. the concentric is shorter than the mikuni, and the shortest spigot manifold you can get is right at 3/4-inch, and there's just flat  not room. a lightning might be okay, because they can go off to the side, but a thunderbolt is way too orthogonal to make it easy.

anyway i finally drained out some fuel to check petcock flow for the tenth time and said, whoa,here,  wait a minute . . .

(people from oklahoma really do say "whoa . . . ". just so you know. we can't help it.)

crap. the can of race fuel that i had emptied into the thunderclone's tank was one that had been opened prior to a serious rainstorm on the way to maine last month. the rain had puddled into the screw cap recess and had wicked into the can. i hadn't noticed because i hadn't ever completely emptied the can into anything, except . . . the thunderclone.

(https://i.imgur.com/tRBPAaOl.jpg)

the thunderclone wouldn't start because the son of a bitch couldn't burn water.

 so i drained out all the fuel and flushed the tank with a few cups of fresh race gas. then went ahead and kicked it.

started immediately, which i knew it would, but it still won't run except at half throttle.

ah, i said, i still don't have the timing right in this hybrid motor, and the spark is too retarded and won't run unless the rpm is up on the advance curve. so i went and advanced the spark and it started and ran better, but the trigger is pushed against its slots and so i still have to move the rotor back a bit in order to get this to where it will work okay.

but the bugger runs, so lots of other questions are now moot.

i've got it on teh battery charger now, as there was only 11.91 volts in the system. lots of these things won't run un;ess they have more volts than any points set ever needed. th eold boyer bransden ignitions i used to use wouldn't start at all if you had less than 11 volts. maybe the reason this won't run slower than half throttle is because that's where the alternator give sthe control mmodule enough juice.

we'll find out tomorw. if i get it running this will make eight motorcycles that i have running all at the same time. that almost never happens with the old junk that i own. course, there's at least five that don't.

ive promised my lovely wife that i won't buy any more until all these are running. i tried to sneak in another BSA on her once but she spotted it immediately
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 03, 2020, 05:46:57 AM
Sounds every bit like bike shop lore Billy. Been there done that and quite a few more self administered flubs.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 03, 2020, 03:23:46 PM
 british motorcycles were invented to instill humility

and i use machines in general az a form of meditation. lots of procedurez on theze old things are ingrained so deeply in my lizard brain that i dont consciouzly think about what im doing. i can rebuild a carburetor or adjuzt valvez without conscious thought, just uzing muscle memory, more or less.

its sim8lar in some ways to racing. when i leave the line and accelerate down a racetrack, the rest of the world ceasez to exist. there is nothing going on in my life except a motor and a vanishing point ahead of me.

ive never talked to painters about what theyre doing in tbeir heads while they create. i wonder whether its similar.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 04, 2020, 11:19:01 PM
success!

the 1966 BSA lives again. i ruled out ignition, and narrow3d my problems down to air fuel ratio at low throttle settings. borrowed a carburetor from another machine and it started and ran at two of the three fuel circuits

so now im either going to fix the 50 year old carburetor thats on it

or put on a 50 year old japaneze carburetor thats easier to tune

tge light in the tunnel is brighter
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 06, 2020, 01:28:38 AM
Billy is a nut case when he seeks the land speed record on his primitive bikes.  These Isle of Man racers are way beyond Billie's madness.   The H2R Kawasaki and it's suicidal rider are routinely exceeding 320 KM/Hr  (200+ MPH)  And they are going around corners.  At least, our Billy is going in  a hopefully, straight line.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 06, 2020, 02:58:15 AM
Billy is a nut case when he seeks the land speed record on his primitive bikes.  These Isle of Man racers are way beyond Billie's madness.   The H2R Kawasaki and it's suicidal rider are routinely exceeding 320 KM/Hr  (200+ MPH)  And they are going around corners.  At least, our Billy is going in  a hopefully, straight line.

I've watched some of that footage. I guess that those guys are made of way better stuff than I am. That driving is simply insane!
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 07, 2020, 08:12:12 PM
i would give up everything i've ever done, everything i've ever owned, and everything i could ever be

excepting my family

to have had a successful career at the island

without dying, preferably. but if dying is part of the deal, then i'd want enough time to be really good at the TT first.

then dying is okay.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 07, 2020, 08:25:21 PM
in the meantime the old thunderclone is successfully resurrected.


th eslide in the carburetor was too lean to open th ethrottle quickly, which is why it died at the end up ^^^here. but i used the number three slide out of san old carburetor i had in a box, filed the slots until the choke mechanism slid freely, and put it back together. it runs fine now, except that there's no oil in the forks because it leaked out.

but now its off the lift, and i can start work on the road race bike i've been putting off:

(https://i.imgur.com/CKwSWUNl.jpg)

i have almost everything i need too put this hot rod together so i can go around corners too fast on a racetrack next year, but it keeps getting pushed to the side. no more. track bike is number one.

(https://i.imgur.com/EPMidnel.jpg)

except i've got to braze the hol e in the tank on ^^^this thing and put the 1969 tank back on the other thunderbolt befor ei lose any parts.

only the 69 thunderbolt, the 69 starfire, and the 68 441 victor left to do. all BSAs, for crying out loud. there's a lesson there for me. 
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 09, 2020, 01:01:16 AM
Billy if you are serious about building a road racing machine, consider abandoning The British Small Arms Machinery.  Look at it this way.  A functional BSA of yore will bring a pretty fair price, more than it cost new.  Sell off a few of those things.  Now you will have some mad money.  Next...........................

Dig around and find an old 70s vintage Kawasaki KZ750.  In its' day it was often regarded as a road toad. Ahhh! but it has enormous potential, it is far more reliable than old Brit scoots.  It is a tad overweight but can be lightened pleasingly. It is a most capable overhead cam sort, and the head flows rather well even in stock form. Replace the pistons with some Suzuki...I forgot which ones....which raises the CR to about 11 plus.  With suitable exhaust and intake mods it will deliver more brute power than any but the most sophisticated pushrod bikes.  It runs even up or a little faster than the Cosworth Triumps.  It can be a ripper out of the corners. The brakes on the stock machine are pretty near adequate.  The swing arm is a bit crude so replace it with a box section alloy unit.  The rear coilovers can be whatever you can find that is better than the stockers.  The forks can stand a little tweaking with the valving so that they are in tune with the weight and position of the pilot (rider)

How do I know all this about a so called road toad?  I built one to compete in the BOTT (Battle Of The Twins) class.  The More I massaged it the better it became.  It was ultimately equal to any thing on the BOTT track.  It could worry the hell out of factory Sportsters on certain courses.  Damned fine machine that Rob Muzzy used to think worth some passionate development. No real money in that class so he never bothered to develop his own version. He was busy with the big time factory four cylinder super bikes at the time.

If you really want to go road racing for vintage bikes, consider the KZ750.  No way you can compete with modern twins like the Ducatis but you can stay with the old time Ducs for a lot less money.

Billy I have a Flow Quick that I need like a need like I need a paper ass.  It is in a box in my garage. I don't know if it still works but it might.  It is a poor mans air flow measuring tool. I will give it to you for free if you have any interest in playing with it. It can use its' own, included, computer program to plot all sorts of information.  Nifty little digital readout. Uses PVC pipe to route air flow past the differential measuring point. You drive it with your shop vac.  I will also give you some books about flow in cylinder heads if that is sufficient to occupy your interest instead of killing yourself on a road course like Road Atlanta, Mid Ohio, Laconia,  Daytona, etc.   
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 09, 2020, 05:43:12 PM
i remember BOTT. i went to a BOTT race at laguna seca  long time ago and watched the ducatis clear most everybody out. that is genuinely ancient history.

and you know what? i actually have an old KZ750 in the shop.

(https://i.imgur.com/WpvwN1Ul.jpg)

^^^my son bought this 82 model. it runs but needs minor work on an oil leak. its the early 80s chopster version with extended forks. king/queen seat, and 16-inch drum brake rear wheel. but it could be made better. but i look at it the same way i looked at a friends really nice 1965 right-shift sportster he had for sale a while back: a different design paradigm, a new set of knowledge and a suite of new tooling.

the old british stuff will never be as fast or stop as well as newer machines. but i understand them, and so have a better chance of keeping them running and wo5rking well than were i to focus on things with more potential. i'm not serious about competitive road racing-- to do that means a circuit of races that take more time and money than i have. i'm looking for a weekend track bike that will let me ride on the local race tracks and actually stretch an envelope more than twice a year, which is what LSR offers.   i hadn't considered the KZ750, but i will. i don't think my son is really interested in this machine, and just bought it as a connection to me. it hasn't moved since he went off to college, and now he's out on his own.

Quote
Billy I have a Flow Quick that I need like a need like I need a paper ass.  It is in a box in my garage. I don't know if it still works but it might.  It is a poor mans air flow measuring tool. I will give it to you for free if you have any interest in playing with it. It can use its' own, included, computer program to plot all sorts of information.  Nifty little digital readout. Uses PVC pipe to route air flow past the differential measuring point. You drive it with your shop vac.  I will also give you some books about flow in cylinder heads if that is sufficient to occupy your interest instead of killing yourself on a road course like Road Atlanta, Mid Ohio, Laconia,  Daytona, etc.

i am super interested and that is a very kind offer. i know several people that manage little flow benches with shop vacs and i have a huge rooftop belt-drive squirrel cage ventilation fan that i use for circulate air in the shop that i could convert with just a bit of PVC plumbing. how big a box would this ship in?
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 10, 2020, 03:26:53 AM
The electronic chassis is small...12 x 12 x 8 that includes the instruction book the disks and the magic box.  The second box is for the PVC pipe thing that has the differential pressure gimmick built in.  It is probably 6 x6 x 24.  All shippable by postal service.  Weight is not excessive.  If you want to play with this thing I will investigate shipping cost.  My wife is an E-Bay power seller and she has me building boxes rather frequently.  These toys are not hard to package.

Once again I do not know whether the thing still functions but it did work pretty well when I put it on a shelf in my race shop.  Mostly it is a fun tool and is helpful when learning that all that conventional wisdom about head flow is subject to ....bullshit.  Air flow is not so simple as is commonly believed.  Mostly air does not like to go around sharp corners and mostly maybe polishing the ports is not such a good idea, sometimes it is, and sometimes not so good an idea.  and mostly there is much to observe about the simple parts like the valve seats....and no, three angle seats are not always the solution. All that stuff depends on the shape of the combustion chamber, port inclination, radius of the short turn and where the other valves are, and the shape of the piston dome....on and on and ....whew!   All those mysteries are what makes the whole concept so fascinating.

I think that I  have previously claimed that maximum flow rate at maximum lift is pure advertising.  The mid flow range is far more important because the time that the valve is open at mid ranges is so much longer than at the instantaneous top valve lift.  We are trying to furnish the most oxygen to the combustion process not the most airflow at a tiny time interval. SO alright some cams have a plateau at top lift.  Damned well better hurry to get that valve closed out of the way of the rapidly approaching piston.............OOps, I am in the midst of a lecture here so please ignore all the uninvited outburst.

If you want to play with this gadget, PM me with your mailing address.  It might occupy enough of your interest to keep you out of smoke filled bars or whore houses. Or not.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 10, 2020, 06:57:59 PM
i confezs ive never had much affinity for smokefilled bars and my experience with professional women waz long ago in a galaxy far away.

but making a cylinder head work better is a fascinating exercise. especially when you denigrate the holy of holies, the three angle valve job

and im just curious about the world. thats tge only problem with mortality. you die before you can understand anything
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 11, 2020, 02:46:36 AM
I completely agree that we die before we understand all that we wished that we could......................but those remarks do not apply to just everyone. They do apply to we who are so compelled to pursue the worldly as well as the cosmic truths of the world.

I like the seekers of knowledge more than the less inquisitive.  Expressions like; "it is what it is" do not set well with true seekers.  SO yes, we live, we die, and we take our knowledge with us. It was fun while it lasted.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Randy on October 12, 2020, 01:07:03 AM
I completely agree that we die before we understand all that we wished that we could......................but those remarks do not apply to just everyone. They do apply to we who are so compelled to pursue the worldly as well as the cosmic truths of the world.

I like the seekers of knowledge more than the less inquisitive.  Expressions like; "it is what it is" do not set well with true seekers.  SO yes, we live, we die, and we take our knowledge with us. It was fun while it lasted.
"It is what it is" always seemed like a cop out. I've never liked phrases like that.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 12, 2020, 01:50:09 AM
tid' apah
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 14, 2020, 10:57:54 PM
put a roller together now for the trackbike project

made mostly out of junk left over from the LSR build

(https://i.imgur.com/PX8RCp9l.jpg)

if i can turn all th epiles of parts in my shop into motorcycles it will be easier for my wife to sell everything when i die
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 15, 2020, 02:34:04 AM
^ Good thinking Billy.  On the other hand, unless she is keenly aware of the market value of all those old crocks,,,,,No use making them functional. But then ......................

I am the executor for a dear, life long, friend.  He is younger but not nearly as healthy as me.  He has a whole bunch of Bikes. Like BSA , Triumph, Mustang, and  one or m0re  of every Japanese brand, some of them collectors items.   It would be a huge undertaking to dispose of these bikes for collector market value. In your case their are heirs. In my and my friends age there are no heirs and so why does it matter if that old Triumph TT500 goes to the landfill?   

I urge you not to croak before you make some smart decisions about the fate of all those delightful antiques. ..............Greenbacks are far more portable and far more useful at places like the grocery store.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 15, 2020, 04:16:32 PM
well, i consider it polite to try not to cause stress in people. and some of this junk i have, while in the end is just that, would be useful to somebody else who isn't quite as dead.

i'm organizing stuff into labelled boxes associated with each machine, so whoever pulls out the 69 BSA 441 victor, for example, will have a box with the parts that came off it, the factory tools needed to work on it, and the bits and pieces that go with it. there's also a few people who live not so many hours away who would be able to look at something and tell her how and to who to dispose it with.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 19, 2020, 06:45:30 PM
uh oh

went and saw something ive never seen before


flat track/TT races 90 miles from the house. about six events a year, other races as close.

they've got  class for old farts, and i'm wondering now:

(https://i.imgur.com/JB9Mnorl.jpg)

there's a slide school that comes by here once a year or so, US$250 for four hours on a royal enfield himalayan.

wondering.

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 19, 2020, 11:46:53 PM
Billy if you can find an XR100 Honda in your treasure trove of bikes, get it running.  It is the best little bike for dirt track practice.  It is the chosen bike for learners at the old Kenny Roberts schools.  (Does Roberts, the master racer with the initials KR, mean anything to you?)

An Enfield dirt tracker?  Naaaw!  Maybe you can find a thumper of 500cc or less somewhere in that pile of bikes.  The little Honda is the clear choice however.  I had more fun on that one than almost any other bike that I have had. 

Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 20, 2020, 03:27:44 AM
woo

i know exactly who kenny roberts is. i remember when he took the americans to europe and destroyed the conventional wisdom.

and laguna seca, was it? when he went from dead last to sixth place in the first lap. running at 110 percent, which he never usually had to do . .

he was the rival in every way to mike hailwood, absent the comeback.

and he ran a TZ750 in flat track when he was s around 16 years old.

the himalayans are a completelty new machine from the old RE works in india. id never heard of it.  google picturez

(https://www.greatbiker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/modified-royal-enfield-himalayan-flat-tracker-righ-0e0e.jpg)

^^^these are for real

ill investigate the 100s. but the advantage of the triumph 650 is that i already have most of a short track bike already and i know how they work

but im just thinking at the moment.

the future is always wide open. just not as much of it.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on October 21, 2020, 05:07:50 AM
That ain't the RE that I once knew Billy.  It looks like a real purpose built machine. 
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 21, 2020, 08:13:25 PM
i didn't believe it either when i was told about it. for years RE has been just churning out new versions of the old 350 bullet from the 1950s.

johnny lewis uses these things in his flat track slide school. this is him on something else


i cannot watch this without wanting to be out there

royal enfield has just come out with a 650 vertical twin, recreating the interceptor of the 1960s



Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 31, 2020, 05:13:25 PM
why are you british . . .so, british?

i'm trying to make a list of all the parts i need to put the motor and frame of this track bike together. the frame is 1965. the motor cases are 1967. the gearbox, primary drive, and crankshaft are 1970.

now in most places a mere five year span of parts for a machine that had been in continuous production since 1959 would not be awkward.

except . . .british . . .

the 1965 and 1967 parts use British Standard bolt and nut sizes. the 1970 parts use SAE bolts and nut sizes. the exact same motor and frame parts parts do not interchange.

plus, the older stuff uses three different thread forms, whitworth, cycle engineering, and british standard fine. they don't interchange either.

the nuts that attach the alternator rotor to the crank are SAE, while the studs that hold the stator to the crankcase are CEI, and the nuts that tighten the stator to the studs are british standard fine. on the same stud, for crying out loud.

the covers are held onto the cases by BSF screws, but any threads in the covers themselves are SAE, or sometimes BA, which is yet another screw size that is almost the same as SAE 10-32, except isn't quite.

plus i sometimes run across 1/4-20 tapped holes in the aluminum that have had metric 10-6 bolts screwed in because the previous owner only had metric fasteners.

you cannot even count on the same system being in place on an undisturbed original machine. my 1972 triumph bonneville is SAE on the outside, british standard and CEI on the inside, and is bored for metric main bearings.

go figure.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 31, 2020, 06:31:11 PM
While Studebaker at least used Imperial fasteners, my neighbor used to have to take the serial number for his truck into the parts store, because rolling changes were made, going down the assembly line.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 31, 2020, 08:08:42 PM
that wont even help for sure with british stuff. sometimes triumph changed the size or shape of a bushinh or seal and KeEPT THE SAME PART NUMBER for multiple years across the change

they issued parts books updates for some of them but the looseleaf sheetz havent survived

plus the books were expensive to update and redraw, zo sometimes the old part is illustrated with a new number for a new year

gah. you have to have it in your head
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on October 31, 2020, 09:17:26 PM
having ranted enough, i will point out that studebakers were among the prettiest vehicles in some lines. i loved their pickups.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on October 31, 2020, 11:57:21 PM
Some of the Hawks were pretty cool, and I always like the boxy lines of the Avanti. But those "mouse nose" things in the early '50s were butt ugly, imo.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: billy rubin on November 01, 2020, 10:11:03 PM
they were definitely a acquired taste, i believe. but weird fifties stuff is in a class of its own.

i owned a hudson stepdown once. put a small block chevy in it. sold it when i moved east as just too much to own, but i'd lik eanother

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmomentcar.com%2Fimages%2Fhudson-super-1949-1.jpg&hash=f29b8f233f7a594edeaac85e57173ba10f99b216)

difficult to put a V8 into because the steering used a bell crank in the middle and two long tie rods, but if you could get the oil pan situated there was still plenty of room under the hood.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Dark Lightning on November 01, 2020, 11:25:57 PM
My take on Hudsons is that they are so ugly they have class. Maybe one of the newer V6 engines with all the electronic controls would fit better.
Title: Re: Petrol head thread!!!
Post by: Icarus on November 02, 2020, 04:19:35 AM
I once ( 19/53) bought a vintage Hudson Town car of about 1935 vintage.  It was an elegant automobile with such stuff as heated shock absorbers to comply with the cold season Of  the Connecticut cold weather,  where I lived.  It was a   machine that had a cork clutch which I had to replace. Otherwise it was reliable and a pleasure to drive, not fast but comfortably.  At that time I did not appreciate its' unique and advanced engineering.  If I still had it in its original glory, Jay Leno would probably pay a hundred times its' original selling price.

I also once had a Willys pick up truck that was a sweetheart little vehicle, all of its' tiny four cylinder engine was pristine.  I wish that I had that one today as well.  That was about 1949.