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General => Politics => Topic started by: Recusant on November 18, 2018, 04:30:49 PM

Title: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Recusant on November 18, 2018, 04:30:49 PM
Despite the failure (http://www.pfaw.org/press-releases/pfaw-failure-of-efforts-to-gut-the-johnson-amendment-a-win-for-the-first-amendment-and-for-our-democracy/) of the Trump administration's effort to gut the so called Johnson amendment, its enforcement has always been nearly non-existent anyway. Christian churches in the US, particularly conservative evangelicals, have long felt it their duty to meddle in US politics.

Essentially following Trump's lead of calling the Democratic party an "angry mob," a number of them have decided to characterize the entire Democratic party as "godless."

"A Texas pastor calls Democrats ‘godless’: ‘God will not bless America’" | Star-Telegram (https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/bud-kennedy/article221829720.html)

Quote
For white Christian Republican pastors stung by election results, it is no longer enough to just say Democrats are wrong.

The Democratic Party is “basically godless,” a former president of the Southern Baptist Convention said in defeat on election night.

Pastor Ed Young of Houston is not the only pastor saying that.

The leader of the Houston-based Texas Pastor Council, Republican anti-LGBT rights activist Dave Welch, wrote in a Friday commentary that Young is right — secular Democrats are a “godless party” that embraces legal abortion and “moral anarchy.”

Another pastor who leads prayer services in the Texas Capitol, Bob Long of prophecy-driven Rally Call Ministries, wrote before the election that he had a vision of a demonic attack on the election by “supernatural evil.”

Just as the midterms further divided America and Texas, evangelical Christians across denominations and races now seem more sharply divided than ever over whether their message is about morality and evangelical political power — under a less-than-model president — or about justice, righteousness and social concern.

[Continues . . . (https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/bud-kennedy/article221829720.html)]

Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Icarus on November 18, 2018, 06:53:45 PM
 :picard facepalm:

It is almost impossible to recognize reality when you have your head up your own ass.

Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Asmodean on December 18, 2018, 09:00:08 AM
I think the Democratic party faces a far greater threat from the Far-Left than the religious Right. In recent years, the Democrats have often been too quick in embracing far-left ideologues too tightly. Combine that with not knowing what terms like Socialism mean (Yes, this is a stick aimed at Bernie, who I think is a relatively sensible "ordinary Leftie," by the way) and you get a party that doesn't suit a whole lot of people AND struggles with being taken seriously both from the centre AND those parts of the Far-Left fringe which do have some understanding of what their ideology is about.

The Republicans do what the Republicans "always" do, their religious wing included, and the president is far from the "worst thing in the history of ever" that some try to paint him as. To a centrist, especially an undecided centrist, that has to appear more enticing than obscure Globalist agendas, support for limiting of the individual rights, undermining national sovereignty, "Just pay for it," "Abolish ICE," violent activists and all the rest of the crap, piled thickly by, through and on top of sensationalist and often dishonest media.

When that is what comes to mind when one thinks of the US Democrats, listens to the rhetoric coming from their many camps and reads the news about Antifa attacking people in the streets... And then the president calls them an "angry mob." Is he wrong?

The Democratic party today appears to be a completely different beast to what it was during the Clinton/Bush Jr. era - a many-headed monstrosity with its heads starting to attack and devour each other... To what end? The Republicans have a spectrum of visions for America. They "all" share identifiable common threads in principles and values. What are the Democratic party's values?
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Mr. B on December 30, 2018, 03:57:16 AM
What are the Democratic party's values?

At the moment, it seems to be to simply take the power back by any means necessary.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tom62 on December 30, 2018, 06:52:44 AM
Right now the democratic party is desperately looking for an identity. They seem to suffer from a post-Clinton syndrome.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tank on December 30, 2018, 07:20:22 AM
Right now the democratic party is desperately looking for an identity. They seem to suffer from a post-Clinton syndrome.

From the outside of the USA this really appears to be the case.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tom62 on December 30, 2018, 09:30:46 AM
Right now the democratic party is desperately looking for an identity. They seem to suffer from a post-Clinton syndrome.

From the outside of the USA this really appears to be the case.

Yes, that is what I forgot to add.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: SidewalkCynic on January 25, 2019, 05:52:21 PM
Christian churches in the US, particularly conservative evangelicals, have long felt it their duty to meddle in US politics.

Essentially following Trump's lead of calling the Democratic party an "angry mob," a number of them have decided to characterize the entire Democratic party as "godless."

So, what? . . . there are many leaders of religious and political organizations characterizing Trump and his supporters as being Nazis, fascists, and what ever; and that is simply not true - nobody is being killed for their political contest against the President and his supporters. The Democrat politicians are all irrational - their reasoning is bizarre, if not incoherent.

Ultimately, the problem is that the government is improperly organized to handle the diversity that the nation has evolved to. The system is deteriorating exponentially, now, and the only solution will be the reorganization of the government. it is going to be a wonderful experience; the diversity of people will be gathered together to do what the founders and subsequent generations could not do.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tank on January 25, 2019, 06:14:29 PM
" nobody is being killed for their political contest against the President and his supporters"

Yet.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Sandra Craft on January 26, 2019, 02:36:56 AM
" nobody is being killed for their political contest against the President and his supporters"

Yet.

That's something the Right keeps conveniently ignoring -- the Nazis didn't start off with killing either, they worked up to it from demonizing immigrants and outsiders, crippling the media, etc.  Just what Trump and his supporters are doing or trying to do.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tank on January 26, 2019, 08:32:53 AM
" nobody is being killed for their political contest against the President and his supporters"

Yet.

That's something the Right keeps conveniently ignoring -- the Nazis didn't start off with killing either, they worked up to it from demonizing immigrants and outsiders, crippling the media, etc.  Just what Trump and his supporters are doing or trying to do.

Yep. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to report it. Or something like that.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: SidewalkCynic on January 26, 2019, 06:17:23 PM
That's something the Right keeps conveniently ignoring -- the Nazis didn't start off with killing either, they worked up to it from demonizing immigrants and outsiders, crippling the media, etc.  Just what Trump and his supporters are doing or trying to do.
Surely, you are aware that the Right describes the Left in the same manner.

It is just another piece of evidence of the great divide that will eventually lead to the possibility of a war, and the ultimate solution of a peace treaty, which would be a reorganization of the government. Of course, I am betting that we can avoid the war and advance to the reorganization of the government using scientific method to determine the separation of powers. Does your side have any ideas as to how to do it?

Does your side have any ideas as to how to fix the developing countries - you do understand that they need a reliable charter system to eliminate corruption, build their economy, and educate their peasants???
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tank on January 26, 2019, 06:24:34 PM
That's something the Right keeps conveniently ignoring -- the Nazis didn't start off with killing either, they worked up to it from demonizing immigrants and outsiders, crippling the media, etc.  Just what Trump and his supporters are doing or trying to do.
Surely, you are aware that the Right describes the Left in the same manner.

It is just another piece of evidence of the great divide that will eventually lead to the possibility of a war, and the ultimate solution of a peace treaty, which would be a reorganization of the government. Of course, I am betting that we can avoid the war and advance to the reorganization of the government using scientific method to determine the separation of powers. Does your side have any ideas as to how to do it?

Does your side have any ideas as to how to fix the developing countries - you do understand that they need a reliable charter system to eliminate corruption, build their economy, and educate their peasants???

You have all the answers. Please bless us with your wisdom so we may grovel at your feet.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: jumbojak on January 26, 2019, 06:26:39 PM
Nope, I'd better not...
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tank on January 26, 2019, 06:45:58 PM
Nope, I'd better not...

Well done. Your restraint is appreciated.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Sandra Craft on January 26, 2019, 07:31:38 PM
That's something the Right keeps conveniently ignoring -- the Nazis didn't start off with killing either, they worked up to it from demonizing immigrants and outsiders, crippling the media, etc.  Just what Trump and his supporters are doing or trying to do.
Surely, you are aware that the Right describes the Left in the same manner.


I'm aware that the Right says the opposite about Left, which isn't really "the same manner".  Tho I have noticed that you generally aren't paying attention in your own bubble.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: SidewalkCynic on January 26, 2019, 07:31:38 PM
You have all the answers. Please bless us with your wisdom so we may grovel at your feet.

I am trying my best: the solution to the persistent social problems that we endure is approached by establishing a reliable ("scientific") social contract system. The formula for such a system is a collation format (listing formula). The ultimate social contract is the agreement of semantics, and that is achieved by the rendering of a knowledge classification system. A derivative of a "scientific" knowledge classification system is going to be a "scientific" corporate/government charter system that can be converted into the sophisticated languages and "flexible/expandable/contractual" to accommodate any community population size.

All of the "successful" governments are not convertible for developing nations - they work because they are the product of their own soft corruptions that maintained commerce and wealth.

The world need a "scientific" government chartering system that graduates reasoned arguments.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tank on January 26, 2019, 08:05:25 PM
...
The world need a "scientific" government chartering system that graduates reasoned arguments.

Yes it does. Will it ever happen? Only at the expense of mass democracy. So however good the idea is there'll be a person like Trump, Bill Clinton, Mao, Stalin, Hitler etc. etc. who will rally the ignorant and destroy the idea because 'it's too intellectual'. :(
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Icarus on January 27, 2019, 12:08:15 AM
The oligarchs and others who play dirty will make an ordered or scientifically structured government a mere pipe dream.
 
It would be useful to read a recently published book titled: Kickback.  Subtitle; Exposing the Corporate Bribery Network.  Author David Montero has done an admirable job of describing and documenting just how the world of money and politics works. This is a five star book that does an exceptionally well presented view of the world of bribery and how it affects governments everywhere.

The book is a must read for those who would presume to prescribe simplistic solutions for the betterment of societies, including our own.

Sandy perhaps you could consider this one for Book of the month.   It is an almost fun read but too serious a subject to create much in the way of mirth.  A page turner in any case
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Sandra Craft on January 27, 2019, 05:28:30 AM
Sandy perhaps you could consider this one for Book of the month.   It is an almost fun read but too serious a subject to create much in the way of mirth.  A page turner in any case

Done.  Sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Recusant on January 27, 2019, 09:47:53 PM
So, what? . . . there are many leaders of religious and political organizations characterizing Trump and his supporters as being Nazis, fascists, and what ever; and that is simply not true - nobody is being killed for their political contest against the President and his supporters. The Democrat politicians are all irrational - their reasoning is bizarre, if not incoherent.

Since I didn't assert that Democratic party politicians are paragons of rationality, this is nothing other than whataboutism. As if the Republican politicians are recognizably superior to the Democratic ones in this regard. If you're implying that, then I invite you to present evidence to support the idea.

Ultimately, the problem is that the government is improperly organized to handle the diversity that the nation has evolved to.

I disagree. Constitutional republics are rather flexible systems. 

The system is deteriorating exponentially, now, and the only solution will be the reorganization of the government.

What to you mean by "deteriorating exponentially"?

it is going to be a wonderful experience; the diversity of people will be gathered together to do what the founders and subsequent generations could not do.

This is excessively vague. Are you supporting a constitutional convention?
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: SidewalkCynic on January 28, 2019, 09:24:27 PM
That's something the Right keeps conveniently ignoring -- the Nazis didn't start off with killing either, they worked up to it from demonizing immigrants and outsiders, crippling the media, etc.  Just what Trump and his supporters are doing or trying to do.
Surely, you are aware that the Right describes the Left in the same manner.

I'm aware that the Right says the opposite about Left, which isn't really "the same manner".
I do not understand "the Right says the opposite about Left." :wtf:

Tho I have noticed that you generally aren't paying attention in your own bubble.
You're silly - I am very aware of what is going on.
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: SidewalkCynic on January 28, 2019, 09:42:33 PM
So, what? . . . there are many leaders of religious and political organizations characterizing Trump and his supporters as being Nazis, fascists, and what ever; and that is simply not true - nobody is being killed for their political contest against the President and his supporters. The Democrat politicians are all irrational - their reasoning is bizarre, if not incoherent.

Since I didn't assert that Democratic party politicians are paragons of rationality, this is nothing other than whataboutism. As if the Republican politicians are recognizably superior to the Democratic ones in this regard. If you're implying that, then I invite you to present evidence to support the idea.
I am definitely hearing Democrat politicians and liberal media pundits calling Trump a Nazi, fascist, and comparing him to dictators. I do not remember Republican politicians calling Obama such, but I know the pundits were calling him a fascist and a dictator, and some reference to the British PM who was appeasing Hitler.

Ultimately, the problem is that the government is improperly organized to handle the diversity that the nation has evolved to.

I disagree. Constitutional republics are rather flexible systems. 
What do you mean, "flexible?"

Easily corruptible, because they are inadequately separated, and subsequently, the responsibilities are improperly distributed; because they only had one formula to work with in ordering the charters.

The system is deteriorating exponentially, now, and the only solution will be the reorganization of the government.
What to you mean by "deteriorating exponentially"?
The  optimum aspects of the United States federal government cannot handle the inadequacies that the diversity and relative sophistication that the population has evolved to, and the rational people are recognizing this and are inclined to recognize that like any other failing organization, reorganization is the solution.

it is going to be a wonderful experience; the diversity of people will be gathered together to do what the founders and subsequent generations could not do.
This is excessively vague. Are you supporting a constitutional convention?
It was not that vague, you figure it out. My super duper library classification system has a secondary application for formatting corporate charter systems; and I have been working on the organizational aspects of the anticipated constitutional convention. I call it the United States Fourth Continental Congress and I put together a website: US4CC (http://www.us4cc.info)

Pretty good, huh?
Title: Re: Demonizing the Democratic Party in the US
Post by: Tank on January 29, 2019, 08:13:43 AM
.. am definitely hearing Democrat politicians and liberal media pundits calling Trump a Nazi, fascist, and comparing him to dictators. I do not remember Republican politicians calling Obama such...


Trump is everything Republicans said Obama was (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/06/12/trump-is-everything-republicans-said-obama-was/)

The republican behaviour towards democratic opponents is despicable beyond compare. But you seem to have selective memory about that in just the same way you ignore figures to make your stats look good.