We were speaking of cars a bit on another thread.
I had mentioned that I felt that her driving a BMW 325i saved my daughter's life in an accident she had this past summer.
Well here's what I drove up on...as it's being dragged up on a tow truck.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg69.imageshack.us%2Fimg69%2F4297%2Fbmwcrash.jpg&hash=7d748fd8c41135d95f9a094f970c681508a7e32f)
I found my daughter standing with a paramedic as he bandaged her forearm...what a relief!!
Scary moment! Did you know she was basically ok before you arrived?
Quote from: Tank on May 03, 2012, 09:36:38 PM
Scary moment! Did you know she was basically ok before you arrived?
No. All I knew is that she had been in an accident and where she was.
Whoa! Really glad your daughter is ok.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 03, 2012, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 03, 2012, 09:36:38 PM
Scary moment! Did you know she was basically ok before you arrived?
No. All I knew is that she had been in an accident and where she was.
It must have been absolutely sickening driving to find out what had happened.
Quote from: joeactor on May 03, 2012, 09:52:20 PM
Whoa! Really glad your daughter is ok.
Yes, thx.
Tank: My heart and stomach were both in knots.
My point in the other thread is that I really trust BMW and MBZ for their safety.
A bit more expensive, but well worth the cost IMHO.
Not too bad, that.
But then again, it if were too bad, there would have been potentially serious injuries no matter how safe the car... You smash into something at 80km/h, and... Well, to put it this way: your internal organs don't have airbags and seat belts.
When it comes to safety, most Euroboxes do well, actually. I seem to remember Renault being very good at that crash-and-avoid-burning stuff... But in general, when colliding with another car, weight and height are not insignificant factors in determining the outcome, leaving most low cars at a disadvantage to most SUVs.
My friend was given a work car, which was a nice perk.
But I could buckle it just by applying a little pressure with my pinky finger.
Scary to think what would happen in an accident.
Sorry, I don't remember what the car make or model was.
Lots of people drive big bulky four wheel drives because they think they are safer.
My feeling is that they have a high center of gravity and are not built for the high speed and cornering of roads.
But i have no statistical data to back that up.
BTW AD, wow, your daughter was lucky.
Wow AD. Glad your daughter was ok in the end.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 03, 2012, 09:34:51 PM
We were speaking of cars a bit on another thread.
I had mentioned that I felt that her driving a BMW 325i saved my daughter's life in an accident she had this past summer.
Well here's what I drove up on...as it's being dragged up on a tow truck.
I found my daughter standing with a paramedic as he bandaged her forearm...what a relief!!
Yikes, Man!
That put my heart in my throat. Yeah, that BMW did alright for you guys. Very happy your daughter was not seriously hurt.
I finally got my wife a car I felt would be safe for her, once we finished with the minivan parade (four sons will sort of force you into a minivan situation). Volvo XC70. Very tough car.
That looked like a nasty accident. I'm so glad that your daughter is fine.
Looked like more of a glancing blow than a nasty crash to my rather untrained eye... a nasty one would be getting side-slammed by a bus or a frontal collision with displacement, Euro NCAP style, only at more than 64 km/h and vs. a heavier car.
The bimmer is obviously wrecked though, and that means it did its job in sacrificing itself for its occupants. A good car, even if I wouldn't want to own one.
Praise be to the FSM, she's OK. Let's hope the insurance pays up without quibbling. I'm assuming that's a write-off for insurance purposes?
OK, so let's have it. I want your lists of cars you've owned. Mine are:
1984 Citroen BX 1.9D (red)
1985 Ford Sierra 2.0LX (red)
1987 Ford Orion 1.6i Ghia (silver - I suped it with a bad-boy-back-box. Loved this car)
1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 2.0i Targa top (teal green - I had this imported from Japan, then suped it with several mods - got it to 132mph before I got scared - sold it when I had kids. Met and wooed my wife with this one... she's so shallow :D)
1997 VW Golf 1.6 (metallic dark green - still got this - nickname:Turtle)
2000 Nissan Almera Tino (metallic light green - was a slug to drive but just went on-and-on and never broke down - Nickname:Tina)
2007 Nissan Qashqai Techna 1.6 (Silver - Love this - highest NCAP in its class - Nickname: Kasha)
Japanese all the way for me from now on...
Wish list: Lexus IS F
Previously: An ancient Volvo with far too soft suspension and far too underpowered b19 engine, an ancient Chevy van with a far too big petrol engine and a TV, a mid-nineties Mistubishi sedan in pensioner green... It sucked.
Currently: a 1993 VW Passat 2.0, The Asmo's dear Old Rusty.
Wish list: VW Phaeton or Ford Mondeo Ghia of late generation.
Never gonna happen: most boring Jappos, most boring Coreans, any car that pretends to be something it just isn't, any car that really is a way of compensating for one's shortcomings, be they in the penis size department or otherwise (Exception: almost any Aston Martin)
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 08:03:39 AM
Looked like more of a glancing blow than a nasty crash to my rather untrained eye... a nasty one would be getting side-slammed by a bus or a frontal collision with displacement, Euro NCAP style, only at more than 64 km/h and vs. a heavier car.
The bimmer is obviously wrecked though, and that means it did its job in sacrificing itself for its occupants. A good car, even if I wouldn't want to own one.
From her account, she was doing about the speed limit (40mph) and was hit while in the No. 1 lane and thrown across the traffic lanes and straight into a traffic light pole. Other driver was found at fault.
Quote from: OldGit on May 04, 2012, 09:16:38 AM
Praise be to the FSM, she's OK. Let's hope the insurance pays up without quibbling. I'm assuming that's a write-off for insurance purposes?
Insurance paid up very well in fact. Just under $10k
I had just (within 2 months) swapped out the rear lights for some really nice smoked LED taillights. I so wanted to remove them when we went to the tow yard to clean it out of our stuff.
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 04, 2012, 11:29:12 AM
1984 Citroen BX 1.9D (red)
I've heard...um....good things...about Citroens (from Douglas Adams.) ;D
1986 Camaro Berlinetta (silver) (wrapped around a telephone pole when I was 16)
1994 Geo Metro (blue) (drove until pieces of it were literally falling off in my hands)
2002 Suzuki Aerio Hatchback (black) (wonderful car, drove for 6 years and never once broke down or needed any maintenance other than oil changes, sold last year when my FIL gave me the Accord)
Current: 2003 Honda Accord (dark blue) (so far it's been good to me.)
Dream car: I've
always wanted a Jeep Wrangler, but doubt I will get one until my kid(s) are grown, and who knows if they will still make them by then...
My first car at 16 yrs of age was a 1976 Fiat X19. True, they are finiky cars, but oh how much fun that car is! Targa top, two-seater, low to the ground...and as long as the road is dry, a well handling car. Not great for top speed, I think I got it to 95mph going downhill with a tailwind...
I had so much fun in my X19. Left me a few times on the side of the road, but the fun more than outweighed the grief. All things considered, it was a pretty good car. I would drive it back and forth from the L.A. to the San Fran.(area) to and from college.
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 04, 2012, 11:29:12 AM
OK, so let's have it. I want your lists of cars you've owned.
We've owned a few cars:
1976 Fiat X19
1988 Toyota FX (only one bought new)
1973 VW Bus (still have...needs tlc)
1991 Lexus LS400 (best A/C - BEST customer service hands down!)
1987 BMW 325i (my fave bimmer :( )
1988 BMW 528e (my favorite BMW model, but in M5 guise)
1994 MBZ E320 (most reliable. Still in operation. 200k+ miles)
1996 Mazda 626 (my hoop-dee)
1997 BMW 740i (smooooooth and quick!)
2001 BMW 325i (fun! - accident=totaled)
2002 BMW X5 (had most fun in - our ski machine)
2005 MBZ C230 Kom (replaced the 325i - quick and fantastic fuel economy!)
I'm pretty sure that's it.
Dream car (realistic): 1988 BMW M5
Dream car (true): Porsche GT3
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 04, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
My first car at 16 yrs of age was a 1976 Fiat X19. True, they are finiky cars, but oh how much fun that car is! Targa top, two-seater, low to the ground...and as long as the road is dry, a well handling car. Not great for top speed, I think I got it to 95mph going downhill with a tailwind...
I had so much fun in my X19. Left me a few times on the side of the road, but the fun more than outweighed the grief. All things considered, it was a pretty good car. I would drive it back and forth from the L.A. to the San Fran.(area) to and from college.
Ahh cool. My brother bought one for fun (he had a Ford Sierra too) and I drove it a few times - it was the 'Bertone' version, so nicely kitted out. After he'd got bored with it he told me I could HAVE it if I bought the four new tyres it needed. I was skint (and couldn't really afford to run it anyway) so had to wave goodbye to it. Fun little toy though.
First car was a '97 Camry my parents gave to me when I was in college. Worked great until the engine exploded in '04. Turned out there was a known flaw in Toyota engines built at that time where the gap between the pistons and the surrounding walls was too thin and somehow caused gelling of the oil. But Toyota didn't believe me and refused to cover the busted engine. So I went to their competitor and bought a new Honda Accord, black. Yes, I'm boring. But I don't drive much and I just needed something practical and roomy. Great car overall.
Quote from: Ali on May 04, 2012, 04:36:14 PM
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 04, 2012, 11:29:12 AM
1984 Citroen BX 1.9D (red)
I've heard...um....good things...about Citroens (from Douglas Adams.) ;D
Ive got nothing good to say about it other than it had cool suspension.
I see you've experienced the virtues of Japanese cars. Can't fault 'em for anything. (Was that Asmo bemoaning them earlier? - He's just plain wrong! ;D)
Just as an amusing side-note, you don't see many Toyota MR2s in France as I discovered when driving around in one amongst muted sniggers.
Pronounced EM-AIR-DEUX, it sounds a bit like 'emmerdeuse' meaning 'shitty'.
New Citroëns are some og the most comfortable cheap cars that money can buy and the reliability has improved, so if you want comfort before speed or looks, Citroën should be considered.
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 04, 2012, 05:32:32 PM
(Was that Asmo bemoaning them earlier? - He's just plain wrong! ;D)
Depends on the car. Name one and I will tell you what is wrong with it. ;D
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 05:40:42 PM
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 04, 2012, 05:32:32 PM
(Was that Asmo bemoaning them earlier? - He's just plain wrong! ;D)
Depends on the car. Name one and I will tell you what is wrong with it. ;D
OK. I can play that. I'll be Japanese cars, and you be European. Still wanna play? :D
Do lets.
Easy start: Volvo s60
What's wrong with my Honda? :D
Mostly, seats and interior design. Interior space is also a minus for its percieved exterior size.
That aside, it's very nice to drive, has decent engines and is reliable.
Finally something on the happy atheist thread I can contribute too. You all are amatures on the car ownership front.
Except for the mini-vans for my wife most of these were purchased as 100,000 mile cars.
1967 VW microbus. with flower stickers
1972 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup
1968 VW Karmen Gia convertable
1969 Triumph TR6
1980 VW Golf Diesel (48 hp)
1980 Chevy Monza (like a Vega but it had a 350 hp v8. Way unsafe)
1972 Plymouth Valiant (wife brought this)
1984 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup
1984 Dodge Daytona
1986 Volvo 240 (Diesel with stick)
1987 Mazda RX-7
1968 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup
1988 Ford Ranger
1990 Ford Ranger
1990 Chrysler mini van
1984 Volvo 240
1998 Pontiac Mini Van
1955 Chevy Belair (4 door)
1993 Ford 3/4 ton pickup
1991 Toyota MR2 (turbo)
1986 BMW 325e
1982 Chevy Blazer w/6.2 Diesel. Added a 5 speed manual.
1986 Porsche 944 (project car with son, but he decided to keep the...)
2001 VW Passat (still going, son)
2003 Honda Minivan (still going, daughter)
1999 Chevrolet Corvette (bought for $12,000 with 118,000 miles, sold for $12,800 20,000 miles later. Net cost about $750 not counting gas)
2003 Mercedes 230 C (totaled by driving 50 feet through a 10" deep puddle. Last german car ever)
1994 Honda Civic (Yipeee!!! Replace Corvette as track car)
2008 Nissan Xterra (current daily driver)
2010 Subaru Outback (current wife car)
and (mostly purchased as basket cases, sold running)
Honda 350
Honda 450
Honda 750
Ducati 441
Triumph 750
Yamaha 500 (single)
Motoguzzi 750
Harley 80 cu in.
BMW R 100 (1000 cc)
Kawasaki h2 750 (current)
I'm bad.
My car list is rather small
1978 Opel Kadett (it was stolen 4 weeks after I'd bought it. The police found it back, but the car was damaged beyond repair)
1986 Renault 9 GTS (had loads of small technical problems with that car, which made me decide never to buy any french car again in my entire life)
1996 Ford Mondeo (now that was really a great car)
2000 Volvo S70 (still got that one. I never had any problems with it)
Quote from: technolud on May 04, 2012, 06:43:13 PM
1994 Honda Civic
A Honda
Civic? YOU FOOL. >:(
(You were the one that told us about the Civic forum drama, weren't you? Otherwise, please disregard me. Everyone else does.)
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 05:54:32 PM
Do lets.
Easy start: Volvo s60
Is that the same Volvo owned by Chinese firm Geely Automobile Holdings?
Nice car!
My first car was a Volare coupe.
Since then, it's been Toyota (Tercel, Rav4, Prius).
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 04, 2012, 08:07:25 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 05:54:32 PM
Do lets.
Easy start: Volvo s60
Is that the same Volvo owned by Chinese firm Geely Automobile Holdings?
Nice car!
It is the same Volvo as owned by the manufacturer of some of the worst cars in the world, yes.
Nice..? It's like... A Volvo. They are reasonably comfortable, reasonably powerful, reasonably everything, really. And pretty boring to drive. Oh, I'd have that long before anything from Suzuki, for instance, but still nowhere near my top list.
Now, are you going to name a car from Japan so I can point out its wrongs (and perhaps rights if I see any)?
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 08:33:06 PM
It is the same Volvo as owned by the manufacturer of some of the worst cars in the world, yes.
Nice..? It's like... A Volvo. They are reasonably comfortable, reasonably powerful, reasonably everything, really. And pretty boring to drive. Oh, I'd have that long before anything from Suzuki, for instance, but still nowhere near my top list.
Now, are you going to name a car from Japan so I can point out its wrongs (and perhaps rights if I see any)?
For the record, my Suzuki was a great little car. Never ever ever broke, comfy to drive, lots of cargo capacity when I folded down the backseats (helped many a person move stuff with it) and lots of neato little hidden compartments to put things in. I loved my Suzuki. I'm not always sure I made the right decision in accepting my FILs Accord and selling it. It was exciting at the time to get a "new" car, and it's a nice car and everything, but I really did love my Suzuki lots and still miss it sometimes.
One does get attached to one's own cars unless they well and truly suck, but I would as soon call a small Suzuki comfortable as I would my Passat, even with its advantage of size.
Quote from: joeactor on May 04, 2012, 08:12:57 PM
My first car was a Volare coupe.
Since then, it's been Toyota (Tercel, Rav4, Prius).
Ha! That is so "industry" here in L.A. :)
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 08:33:06 PM
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 04, 2012, 08:07:25 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 05:54:32 PM
Do lets.
Easy start: Volvo s60
Is that the same Volvo owned by Chinese firm Geely Automobile Holdings?
Nice car!
It is the same Volvo as owned by the manufacturer of some of the worst cars in the world, yes.
Nice..? It's like... A Volvo. They are reasonably comfortable, reasonably powerful, reasonably everything, really. And pretty boring to drive. Oh, I'd have that long before anything from Suzuki, for instance, but still nowhere near my top list.
Now, are you going to name a car from Japan so I can point out its wrongs (and perhaps rights if I see any)?
OK, knock yourself out with my beloved Lexus IS F.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SNdtFiXbYPk%2FTuvpjx46HHI%2FAAAAAAAAPRc%2Fi0_O6QCzvxg%2Fs1600%2Fboris-johnson-yawn.jpg&hash=4f43ed78ccbf24a81bffa6b470176eb835a9a247)
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 04, 2012, 08:45:13 PM
Quote from: joeactor on May 04, 2012, 08:12:57 PM
My first car was a Volare coupe.
Since then, it's been Toyota (Tercel, Rav4, Prius).
Ha! That is so "industry" here in L.A. :)
Indeed (it's even silver) - I'm a mean, green, star-powered machine!
(seriously, tho... gas mileage is impressive - about double my old car)
The only car I've ever owned was a 2001 Dodge Neon. By the end of it, "the arse was outta 'er"
Oh yeah. Be jealous.
Quote from: joeactor on May 04, 2012, 08:58:19 PM
Indeed (it's even silver) - I'm a mean, green, star-powered machine!
(seriously, tho... gas mileage is impressive - about double my old car)
My daughter's MBZ C230 is getting about 32mpg. Quite good. I'm really happy with it.
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 04, 2012, 08:56:36 PM
OK, knock yourself out with my beloved Lexus IS F.
Downs: Looks, interior (Console buttons look like they were designed by a four year old), ride, overly intrusive electronics.
Ups: Relatively low dick-factor compared to the other cars of the type
My turn: Ford Mondeo (For those unaware, Mondeo is a Belgian Ford)
Quote from: joeactor on May 04, 2012, 08:58:19 PM
Indeed (it's even silver) - I'm a mean, green, star-powered machine!
(seriously, tho... gas mileage is impressive - about double my old car)
Get a Polo Blue Motion if you want to save the planet... Priuses just suck on oh, so many levels... Not the least of which is being far thirstier than they promise.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: joeactor on May 04, 2012, 08:58:19 PM
Indeed (it's even silver) - I'm a mean, green, star-powered machine!
(seriously, tho... gas mileage is impressive - about double my old car)
Get a Polo Blue Motion if you want to save the planet... Priuses just suck on oh, so many levels... Not the least of which is being far thirstier than they promise.
Huh. Never heard of it - I don't think the BlueMotion is available in the US.
Looks impressive for a diesel, but I still think of them as the cars that break down and belch blue smoke.
Have had the Prius for about 6 months. It gets between 47 and 50 mpg - plenty for me, plus no searching for a diesel station (they're not that plentiful here in the states...)
Ah, yes... Them States...
Well, maybe the heavy, expensive and somewhat thirsty Prius with much less baggage space than its size suggests does have some upsides there... Where available, however, you can get a lot more car for your coin and be "greener" in the process.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 09:23:27 PM
My turn: Ford Mondeo (For those unaware, Mondeo is a Belgian Ford)
Downs: Ford...nuff said.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 04, 2012, 09:58:03 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 09:23:27 PM
My turn: Ford Mondeo (For those unaware, Mondeo is a Belgian Ford)
Downs: Ford...nuff said.
Ups: Priced like a Ford, very good ride, fun to drive, good space, Ghias are well-equipped, later generations are generally reliable, good looks.
There is a big difference between Ford from Belgium and Ford from USA.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 04, 2012, 10:01:04 PM
There is a big difference between Ford from Belgium and Ford from USA.
I wouldn't know, I'll take your word for it. I'll admit, looking up an image of the Mondeo, it does look nicer than what's available here. But as a purchase, I wouldn't buy anything Ford unless I was in the market for a full-size pick-up truck or large SUV for towing or hauling.
In the end, it's our own experiences and bias for or against certain cars. ;)
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 04, 2012, 10:15:54 PM
In the end, it's our own experiences and bias for or against certain cars. ;)
Indeed.
Although for the purpose of this thread I'm trying to be as objective as is prudent.
Sticking my nose in where it isn't wanted, and giving Asmodean a broad script on which to reply I'll makes some automotive purchasing generalizations: (from a US-centric point of view)
1) Going way back to the beginning of the thread AnimatedDirt was praising the performance of his daughters BMW when crashed. (E46? early 2000's?) From the reading I've been doing (this is a really interesting site concerning car safety http://www.informedforlife.org/) new cars are much safer then old cars. Large cars are safer then small cars. Lower vehicles (cars) are safer then taller ones (SUV's) although this distinction has been minimized to a large extent with the introduction of dynamic stability control. So for maximum safety you want to be looking for the safest new, large, low car you can find. Check this out too, old vs new technolgy in a head on collision video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g
2) Unfortunately the most fuel efficient cars tend to be small and light, think of the new crop of 40 mpg "B" cars. Ford Fiesta, Hyundai Accent, Honda Civic (YES, I'M THAT FOOL) Chevy Sonic, etc. In these cases efficiency and safety are to some degree working at cross purposes. One can circumvent this somewhat by going the technological route with a Prius or VW diesel but you are literally going to have to drive 100,000 miles to recover in fuel savings the added cost of the original investment.
3) Reliability: Simpler cars break less often (and less expensively) then complex ones. Japanese (+ Korean) cars are more reliable then European cars. (Who knows about American cars? Somewhere in between?) This is not only my opinion, there are many studies to support the higher repair rate of the european imports. Anecdotally, BMW North America headquarters are located in the town I live in. One can hardly back out of the driveway without hitting a 3-Series. On my friends/neighbors middle aged cars (5 years old) there often seems to be something minor going wrong (window won't roll up, seat won't move, etc.) and it always costs $800. They are selling 5 year old 75,000 mile cars because they can't afford the upkeep. Counter point: Prius's, although extremely complex, have outstanding reliability records. Go figure.
4) European cars handle better the Japanese or US cars. I think its just been a priority in Europe for much longer. Although this gap seems to be closing.
5) Every manufacturer has design flaws to be avoided, some of which remained in production for decades.
Honda: Automatic transmissions on 2000-2005 V6's
Subaru: Cylinder head gastkets from 98-2009
Volkswagen: Endless CEL's, vacuum hoses made from brie.
BMW/Mercedes: Everything electronic
Chrysler: Auto transmissions from 1990 to 2006
The list goes on and on. Before buying one must check out the specific model/years.
6) So there, I've completely laid out a car purchasing guide for any intelligent atheist.
Start with a new(er) mid-sized relatively simple Japanese sedan for the safest, and most economical solution. Then size up or down for required room/capicity or desired economy, have the best of both worlds by going for some technology (hybrid or diesel) at added expense, and shop European for that tied down BMW handling and the cache thing. Just remember, the most versatile and useful car on the planet is a mini-van, and always, always get a manual transmission if available. The Kia/Hyundia 100,000 warrenties are awesome.
Thus spaketh Technolud
Quote from: technolud on May 05, 2012, 02:33:26 PM
1) Going way back to the beginning of the thread AnimatedDirt was praising the performance of his daughters BMW when crashed. (E46? early 2000's?) From the reading I've been doing (this is a really interesting site concerning car safety http://www.informedforlife.org/) new cars are much safer then old cars. Large cars are safer then small cars. Lower vehicles (cars) are safer then taller ones (SUV's) although this distinction has been minimized to a large extent with the introduction of dynamic stability control. So for maximum safety you want to be looking for the safest new, large, low car you can find. Check this out too, old vs new technolgy in a head on collision video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g
Yes, except the last statement holds true vs. a telephone pole or an equal or lower opponent. An SUV generally has some advantage over a sedan as it "rides over it" in a frontal collision.
Quote2) Unfortunately the most fuel efficient cars tend to be small and light, think of the new crop of 40 mpg "B" cars. Ford Fiesta, Hyundai Accent, Honda Civic (YES, I'M THAT FOOL) Chevy Sonic, etc. In these cases efficiency and safety are to some degree working at cross purposes. One can circumvent this somewhat by going the technological route with a Prius or VW diesel but you are literally going to have to drive 100,000 miles to recover in fuel savings the added cost of the original investment.
Yes, "green" is small and light but Prius is not quite as green as many people would like to think. It's in the "pretends to be something it just sin't" cathegory in my book.
Quote3) Reliability: Simpler cars break less often (and less expensively) then complex ones. Japanese (+ Korean) cars are more reliable then European cars. (Who knows about American cars? Somewhere in between?) This is not only my opinion, there are many studies to support the higher repair rate of the european imports. Anecdotally, BMW North America headquarters are located in the town I live in. One can hardly back out of the driveway without hitting a 3-Series. On my friends/neighbors middle aged cars (5 years old) there often seems to be something minor going wrong (window won't roll up, seat won't move, etc.) and it always costs $800. They are selling 5 year old 75,000 mile cars because they can't afford the upkeep. Counter point: Prius's, although extremely complex, have outstanding reliability records. Go figure.
Many American cars are unreliable, mostly due to being built to a budget, as are many Euroboxes exported to the USA for the same reason.
Japanese cars were once the most reliable out there. However, a late generation European car can be just as good. Some new Koreans are very reliable as well.
Quote4) European cars handle better the Japanese or US cars. I think its just been a priority in Europe for much longer. Although this gap seems to be closing.
In general, yes, but a Nissan Supercomputer is to be expected to handle better than a Vauxhall Astra Diesel.
Quote5) Every manufacturer has design flaws to be avoided, some of which remained in production for decades.
Honda: Automatic transmissions on 2000-2005 V6's
Subaru: Cylinder head gastkets from 98-2009
Volkswagen: Endless CEL's, vacuum hoses made from brie.
BMW/Mercedes: Everything electronic
Chrysler: Auto transmissions from 1990 to 2006
The list goes on and on. Before buying one must check out the specific model/years.
Even more generalised:
French: Electronics, brakes and engines
German/Swedes: Electronics, wheel alignment, complicated transmissions, several models are rather rust-prone
Americans: Interior (incl. instruments), trim, electrics, transmissions, prone to wear, often squeaks and rattles from new
Japanese: Overall good, but only good enough. Basically, when something brakes, it could be anything.
Italians: Everything, but electronics usually go first
QuoteThe Kia/Hyundia 100,000 warrenties are awesome.
Pretty much everyone has those these days though, no?
Darn. I was hoping for a good fight. I agree with everything Asmodean says. I love a good generalization.
I too have heard this about Prius (relative greenness). I need learn more about this, I imagine it applies to hybrids in general? I'm really on a simplicity kick at this point.
Other manufacturers offer 100,000 mile warrenties? Tell me who. I want one of those.
T.
In Europe, pretty much everything has at least a 100000(km) warranty. Many models do, for that reason, come with better warranty as a competitive edge.
Hyundai, BMW, Porsche and Mini (BMW) offer a warranty, not limited by the distance traveled. That said, Hyundai does offer the longest warranty period. There may be others, but it's been some time since I checked car warranties.
BMW also offer free road assistance for five years. Merc has the best rust warranty.
Kia offers 150000km, which is very good, but Kia warranty is lacking in other places. Hyundai have possibly the best warranty on certain models (Not sure about others)
I especially covet the European diesels. Our choices here are limited to VW, BMW and Mercedes, with the last two being prohibitively (for my cheap a...) expensive. And VW is plauged by $8000 diesel fuel system replacement problems....... Kia Rio here I come.
Really? Your VW diesels have engine trouble..? Haven't heard many horror stories here... Oh, some of the older ones can give you head ache if not maintained properly and if fuel quality is crap, but newer ones seem to work well.
My first car was an 89 Buick Regal. My folks bought it for me in high school, and I drove it through college. For those of you asking, you can, indeed, fit two full kegs of beer securely in the trunk. True story.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.classiccars.com%2Fpreview%2F316737_13086469_1989_Buick_Regal.jpg&hash=e42b5cb59e1de522ff11e9f08486f9617e00f507)
The engine finally died, and I sold it for $50 to a buddy of mine who fixed the engine and then made it a convertible. I helped him do it. We took a saws-all and chopped the top off of it, only shattering one of the windows (rear). The seat belts attached to the top of the door jamb and since we cut that off we had to relocate them lower. FYI, the picture is not my car, but nearly identical, including the red color. He also had an old police light- the flashing red magnetic kind- which we hooked up to the rear center brake light. So when you hit the brakes the light would spin. It was a fun weekend project. I'm pretty sure it wasn't street legal.
After that I bought a 2000 Ford Explorer.
I now drive a 2002 Ford Explorer.
My dream car is a Ford Flex
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frickdebruhl.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2F2013-Ford-Flex.jpg&hash=b9113433b16b241ce508d963f17bc5e8908d43b1)
My wife has had a Saturn Ion, she drove the 02 Explorer before me, and now drives a VW Jetta.
The Murcans may not have heard of an autogas conversion, but they're slowly catching on in the UK and have been around in Europe for decades.
Instead of the spare wheel in the back I have a 50-litre tank holding a propane-butane mixture. On the dash is a button to switch fuels. I leave mine on gas (which does not mean petrol!) all the time. It starts the engine on petrol, then as soon as the engine coolant is warm enough to heat up the vapouriser, it switches itself to gas. That's about a mile in winter, less in summer.
It does slightly less mpg but the autogas is roughly half the price of petrol. That's only because it's taxed much less, and maybe one day the government will start to tax it more. I've already paid off my conversion costs.
Quote from: OldGit on May 05, 2012, 07:20:55 PM
The Murcans may not have heard of an autogas conversion, but they're slowly catching on in the UK and have been around in Europe for decades.
Instead of the spare wheel in the back I have a 50-litre tank holding a propane-butane mixture. On the dash is a button to switch fuels. I leave mine on gas (which does not mean petrol!) all the time. It starts the engine on petrol, then as soon as the engine coolant is warm enough to heat up the vapouriser, it switches itself to gas. That's about a mile in winter, less in summer.
It does slightly less mpg but the autogas is roughly half the price of petrol. That's only because it's taxed much less, and maybe one day the government will start to tax it more. I've already paid off my conversion costs.
Cool. Where do you get the fuel?
Quote from: technolud on May 05, 2012, 08:49:04 PM
Quote from: OldGit on May 05, 2012, 07:20:55 PM
The Murcans may not have heard of an autogas conversion, but they're slowly catching on in the UK and have been around in Europe for decades.
Instead of the spare wheel in the back I have a 50-litre tank holding a propane-butane mixture. On the dash is a button to switch fuels. I leave mine on gas (which does not mean petrol!) all the time. It starts the engine on petrol, then as soon as the engine coolant is warm enough to heat up the vapouriser, it switches itself to gas. That's about a mile in winter, less in summer.
It does slightly less mpg but the autogas is roughly half the price of petrol. That's only because it's taxed much less, and maybe one day the government will start to tax it more. I've already paid off my conversion costs.
Cool. Where do you get the fuel?
Gas fueling stations. It's more or less the same fuel as goes into a caravan or a boat for cooking and heating.
VW TDI high pressure fuel pump problems.
Check out this thread. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308323&highlight=fuel+injection+warranty
I don't know if this is US only.
I miss my old microbus.
Oh! Yes, that there was a fuel quality issue, I think. The pump couldn't handle some fuels. Very few cars over here had that problem while new(-ish), but it does occur on ageing VWs.
VW automatic transmissions are somewhat disaster-prone if abused though.
As the Asmo says, there's plenty of filling stations with autogas pumps. But we use a system in the West Midlands whereby there's a serve-yourself pump at every Countrywide store. There are dozens of them and we seldom go anywhere where there isn't one. You hook up to the pump, insert your key, type in your PIN and fill up. At the end of the month you get an itemised bill from their head office, and they take it by direct debit.
http://midlshir02.uuhost.uk.uu.net/mcp/energy/autogas_sites.htm (http://midlshir02.uuhost.uk.uu.net/mcp/energy/autogas_sites.htm)
Or in other areas we use the net to find where the pumps are. In the very last resort we could switch to petrol, but that very rarely happens.