Hi! I'm a born Buddhist.Our religion does not hang on the belief of a single all mighty god.even though it has a some reference to several gods as in other beings.It relies on Karma or good and bad in simple.is there more Buddhists around?
Quote from: werewolf on May 03, 2012, 04:42:40 PM
Hi! I'm a born Buddhist.
No, you were born atheist. :D
You have become Buddhist as a result of life experience (passive culture & active teaching).
Quote from: werewolf on May 03, 2012, 04:42:40 PM
Our religion does not hang on the belief of a single all mighty god.even though it has a some reference to several gods as in other beings.It relies on Karma or good and bad in simple.
Please explain Karma as you see it.
Quote from: werewolf on May 03, 2012, 04:42:40 PM
is there more Buddhists around?
Not at the moment but we have had some on the forum in the past.
well not that i see budhism as a religion but more as a vision or a philosophy. Karma means good deeds are rewarded and bad are well punished
Quote from: werewolf on May 03, 2012, 04:55:54 PM
well not that i see budhism as a religion but more as a vision or a philosophy. Karma means good deeds are rewarded and bad are well punished
I understand the concept of Karma. Do you see a supernatural component to it or simply a natural order that one gets back in kind what one does to others?
Quote from: werewolf on May 03, 2012, 04:55:54 PM
well not that i see budhism as a religion but more as a vision or a philosophy. Karma means good deeds are rewarded and bad are well punished
Well Buddhism is a worldview, if nothing else. I would call it religion, but I suppose it depends on ones definition (that seems to be the case in a lot of things, I've noticed..)
The way I've understood Karma is that: Your good deeds are followed by good events happening to you, while your bad deeds are followed by bad things happening to you. And from my own experience, it does seem to work.
Sort of. ;D
According to teaching it does have a supernatural component but i believe mainly in the part that you call the natural order of things
I believe in karma to a certain extent, but I don't think that there is anything supernatural about it. More like just plain old common sense. If you run around being nasty to people (lying, cheating, stealing) eventually you are going to run into real world consequences for those actions. If you get caught lying, people will stop trusting you. If you get caught stealing, people will stop trusting you and you may go to jail, and so on. If you go around being sweet and helpful, most people will take to you and treat you well in return.
So what motivations bought you to an atheist forum?
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 05:26:31 PM
I believe in karma to a certain extent, but I don't think that there is anything supernatural about it. More like just plain old common sense. If you run around being nasty to people (lying, cheating, stealing) eventually you are going to run into real world consequences for those actions. If you get caught lying, people will stop trusting you. If you get caught stealing, people will stop trusting you and you may go to jail, and so on. If you go around being sweet and helpful, most people will take to you and treat you well in return.
That's pretty much what I mean when I say "it works, sort of". It isn't an universal or supernatural thing, there is no heavenly scale that keeps the universes Good/Bad Karma in balance, as horrible thing equally happen to good people (a person does charity for most of their life, and ends up with a cancer or some lethal disease, for example), and the bad guys don't always get caught (10 years to get Bin Laden...). However, like in "My name is Earl", you do good, you just might get some good back. :)
And sorry, but the irony of common sense is that it's never that common... ;D ;)
QuoteI believe in karma to a certain extent, but I don't think that there is anything supernatural about it. More like just plain old common sense. If you run around being nasty to people (lying, cheating, stealing) eventually you are going to run into real world consequences for those actions.
yeah something like that.
QuoteSo what motivations bought you to an atheist forum?
Richard Dawkins mainly.One of our teachers was an atheist.He talked lot about limitations by religion and i had some of his speeches and read some books and then thought to join the disscussion
well i dont be too hasty to judge on the universal scale thing.but Karma or no Karma i try to live and die as a good person
Quote from: werewolf on May 03, 2012, 05:44:23 PM
well i dont be too hasty to judge on the universal scale thing.but Karma or no Karma i try to live and die as a good person
Well let's hope you don't die for a long while yet!
In my experience on atheist forums since 2006 Buddhists generally don't have a hard time. Buddhist philosophy is essentially peaceful, thoughtful and not a proselytising/evangelical pain in the arse.
QuoteWell let's hope you don't die for a long while yet!
Well i am not planning to :)
yes Buddhists are generally peaceful. except for the more extreme ones.but i guess that how in most religions.if you can accept what is right and what is wrong as well as what is redundant in your own religion you can go easy on every tipe of concept and vision that you meet with.as well as express your views without getting heated up
Quote from: Tank on May 03, 2012, 06:13:18 PM
Quote from: werewolf on May 03, 2012, 05:44:23 PM
well i dont be too hasty to judge on the universal scale thing.but Karma or no Karma i try to live and die as a good person
Well let's hope you don't die for a long while yet!
In my experience on atheist forums since 2006 Buddhists generally don't have a hard time. Buddhist philosophy is essentially peaceful, thoughtful and not a proselytising/evangelical pain in the arse.
Stephen Batchelor's "Buddhism without beliefs" is a stimulating read. Buddhism isn't theistic and its more mystical trappings such as the notion of karma are not integral to its core propositions. Indeed Buddha cautioned against slavish adherence to the teachings of any guru, including himself. Personally, I find much of value in it's approach to life. Some of its principles crop up in the doctrinal
dog's dinner that is Christianity- doing unto others, forgiving your enemy, loving your neighbour etc.
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 05:26:31 PM
If you go around being sweet and helpful, most people will take to you and treat you well in return.
That might be how it is in Denver.
I flirted with Taoism in my teens. I know it isn't the same as Buddhism, but if memory serves, there are some philosophical similarities. I only looked into Taoism after reading Chuang Tzu's Butterfly story. I found it fascinating, but the other teachings never resonated with me.
Quote from: En_Route on May 03, 2012, 08:03:28 PM
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 05:26:31 PM
If you go around being sweet and helpful, most people will take to you and treat you well in return.
That might be how it is in Denver.
Is that not true elsewhere? I don't think I've ever been anywhere where smiles weren't rewarded with smiles.
Buddhism is a religion, and has many supernatural components and can also be totally mental. I like elements of Buddhism though and the original teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama, even though I don't necessarily believe or agree with them.
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 09:29:11 PM
Is that not true elsewhere? I don't think I've ever been anywhere where smiles weren't rewarded with smiles.
In London, they are grump sods (generally).
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 09:29:11 PM
Quote from: En_Route on May 03, 2012, 08:03:28 PM
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 05:26:31 PM
If you go around being sweet and helpful, most people will take to you and treat you well in return.
That might be how it is in Denver.
Is that not true elsewhere? I don't think I've ever been anywhere where smiles weren't rewarded with smiles.
I've been told online and offline, more than a few times, that I 'seem too nice to be real'. I don't know what that's supposed to mean, since ANY of us are sometimes nice and sometimes not... but I guess they mean most people just must not act very nice, most of the time. The thing is, they're probably right, when it comes to me. Looking back on my life, I can say with certainty that I haven't always been nice, and that like anyone else, I've messed up. If karma is true and we do get what we give out, then I can expect to be in for a rough time, in some ways. :P In other ways, though, I try my best to be nice, and I hope that people will be nice, back. I try to be realistic and try to see people not as entirely "good" or "bad" but just as human, capable of being nice and not nice to others.
I'm not sure what I think about karma. I think it's generally true that if you try to be decent most of the time, people who care about you will try to be decent back. It seems to be a human instinct, to want to be liked, and to want to get along with others. In the long run, it helps society move along smoothly. :)
Buddhism itself is pretty neat, though. A lot of very interesting ideas, generally peaceful. When it comes to religions or philosophies, Buddhism and Taoism are among my favourites.
Quote from: Crow on May 03, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
Buddhism is a religion, and has many supernatural components and can also be totally mental. I like elements of Buddhism though and the original teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama, even though I don't necessarily believe or agree with them.
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 09:29:11 PM
Is that not true elsewhere? I don't think I've ever been anywhere where smiles weren't rewarded with smiles.
In London, they are grump sods (generally).
Actually, now that you mention it, we recently had some coworkers come in to Denver from London, and the one thing they all commented on is how friendly people here are. One guy said (like it was simply amazing) "A guy even talked to me in the lift!" So I guess they
must be grumps in London... Here, it is customary to smile and say hello when you cross paths with someone.
Quote from: Crow on May 03, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
Buddhism is a religion, and has many supernatural components and can also be totally mental. I like elements of Buddhism though and the original teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama, even though I don't necessarily believe or agree with them.
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 09:29:11 PM
Is that not true elsewhere? I don't think I've ever been anywhere where smiles weren't rewarded with smiles.
In London, they are grump sods (generally).
Agreed. You'd catch it too if you lived here.
We've all just spent the day exercising our democratic right to elect our Mayor.
I've no doubt the result will give us all the ammunition we need to grump well into next year...
Quotevalue in it's approach to life
yes according to buddhism each life has a value it self.
Quote from: werewolf on May 04, 2012, 02:59:41 AM
Quotevalue in it's approach to life
yes according to buddhism each life has a value it self.
Too bad i dont think every life is valuble.
Sorry, but i squished a bug on my lapel today.
Buddhism is an interesting concept, but karma makes little sense
It doesnt explain murder, rape, child molestation, human trafficking.
Sorry, no. And i definitely dont believe in the "another life/reborn" concept.
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 10:18:14 PM
Quote from: Crow on May 03, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
Buddhism is a religion, and has many supernatural components and can also be totally mental. I like elements of Buddhism though and the original teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama, even though I don't necessarily believe or agree with them.
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 09:29:11 PM
Is that not true elsewhere? I don't think I've ever been anywhere where smiles weren't rewarded with smiles.
In London, they are grump sods (generally).
Actually, now that you mention it, we recently had some coworkers come in to Denver from London, and the one thing they all commented on is how friendly people here are. One guy said (like it was simply amazing) "A guy even talked to me in the lift!" So I guess they must be grumps in London... Here, it is customary to smile and say hello when you cross paths with someone.
Londoners are insular in the same way that all people are who live in big cities generally are. If one said 'Hi!' to everybody you met in a day you'd do nothing else. Chicago is a bit London 'ish while Boston is more chatty.
Quote from: Tank on May 04, 2012, 06:55:22 AM
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 10:18:14 PM
Quote from: Crow on May 03, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
Buddhism is a religion, and has many supernatural components and can also be totally mental. I like elements of Buddhism though and the original teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama, even though I don't necessarily believe or agree with them.
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 09:29:11 PM
Is that not true elsewhere? I don't think I've ever been anywhere where smiles weren't rewarded with smiles.
In London, they are grump sods (generally).
Actually, now that you mention it, we recently had some coworkers come in to Denver from London, and the one thing they all commented on is how friendly people here are. One guy said (like it was simply amazing) "A guy even talked to me in the lift!" So I guess they must be grumps in London... Here, it is customary to smile and say hello when you cross paths with someone.
Londoners are insular in the same way that all people are who live in big cities generally are. If one said 'Hi!' to everybody you met in a day you'd do nothing else. Chicago is a bit London 'ish while Boston is more chatty.
In fairness though, Denver isn't a small town. Certainly, it's no London, but it's still a major metropolitan area. Metro Denver has almost 3 million people. And yet we still manage to smile at each other.... :P :D
Quote from: Ali on May 04, 2012, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 04, 2012, 06:55:22 AM
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 10:18:14 PM
Quote from: Crow on May 03, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
Buddhism is a religion, and has many supernatural components and can also be totally mental. I like elements of Buddhism though and the original teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama, even though I don't necessarily believe or agree with them.
Quote from: Ali on May 03, 2012, 09:29:11 PM
Is that not true elsewhere? I don't think I've ever been anywhere where smiles weren't rewarded with smiles.
In London, they are grump sods (generally).
Actually, now that you mention it, we recently had some coworkers come in to Denver from London, and the one thing they all commented on is how friendly people here are. One guy said (like it was simply amazing) "A guy even talked to me in the lift!" So I guess they must be grumps in London... Here, it is customary to smile and say hello when you cross paths with someone.
Londoners are insular in the same way that all people are who live in big cities generally are. If one said 'Hi!' to everybody you met in a day you'd do nothing else. Chicago is a bit London 'ish while Boston is more chatty.
In fairness though, Denver isn't a small town. Certainly, it's no London, but it's still a major metropolitan area. Metro Denver has almost 3 million people. And yet we still manage to smile at each other.... :P :D
It's the altitude then. It makes you all a bit light headed :P ;D
Quote from: Tank on May 04, 2012, 06:55:22 AM
Londoners are insular in the same way that all people are who live in big cities generally are. If one said 'Hi!' to everybody you met in a day you'd do nothing else. Chicago is a bit London 'ish while Boston is more chatty.
I think its more to do with the mob mentality and needing to over use common politeness that you just start to exude a grumpiness. Normally if a person walks into me out of politeness I will say sorry and in 99% outside of London the politeness is returned, but after saying it about 10 times in the short commute from point A to point B without anyone saying it back you start to stop saying it yourself. Even if you are just going on a relaxed wonder around the city, nearly everywhere you go there are loads of people rushing as if their life depended on getting to where they are going and that in reaction to this people in general walk much quicker than they usually would. The other week when I went I found I was getting stressed out for no reason at all, it was only when I realised I was unintentionally rushing everywhere that I started to enjoy myself and observe what was around me.
Quote from: Crow on May 04, 2012, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 04, 2012, 06:55:22 AM
Londoners are insular in the same way that all people are who live in big cities generally are. If one said 'Hi!' to everybody you met in a day you'd do nothing else. Chicago is a bit London 'ish while Boston is more chatty.
I think its more to do with the mob mentality and needing to over use common politeness that you just start to exude a grumpiness. Normally if a person walks into me out of politeness I will say sorry and in 99% outside of London the politeness is returned, but after saying it about 10 times in the short commute from point A to point B without anyone saying it back you start to stop saying it yourself. Even if you are just going on a relaxed wonder around the city, nearly everywhere you go there are loads of people rushing as if their life depended on getting to where they are going and that in reaction to this people in general walk much quicker than they usually would. The other week when I went I found I was getting stressed out for no reason at all, it was only when I realised I was unintentionally rushing everywhere that I started to enjoy myself and observe what was around me.
This is a good point. I spend most of my time in the 'burbs, which are much more spread out than what I imagine London to be (and Americans are infamous for not being walkers anyway) so I'm not usually bouncing off of people when I walk, which means that I'm usually ambling along at a leisurely pace, as are the people that I cross paths with. Easy to smile and say hello (as a matter of fact, kind of weird not to) when you are the only two people on a stretch of sidewalk.
Before the conversation drifts, let me throw in my two cents on Buddhism...
How soon the conversation degenerates into "I believe this" and "(blah)-ists are generally thus and such". Forget your generalizations and personal variations. There is no basis for belief in anything (sigh, I know that's just my version). Matter of fact, when you start "believing in" things, you step onto a very slippery slope. "Well then how do you explain the nature of our existence?" Why does every question need an ultimate answer? Just let it lie in the dirt and rot. No humans need be present to interpret the sound when trees fall in the forest. Maybe someday someone will develop an instrument or technology or method which will unearth the rotten remnants of your existence, and they will try to explain it in their terms. Oh they may quantify your remains, but of course they will miss what you construed as the meaning of your having been here, until they expire and rot and someone comes along and digs their dirt up and so on. Or you may end up nourishing a tree. The intergalactic superhighway is going to cut through everyone's yard sooner or later. But I digress.
My brother was an atheist until he turned Buddhist. (note spelling) I was mortified. He said it's perfect for atheists because you don't have to believe anything, you just have to do the practice. Well, the practice was as close to religious ritual as I've ever seen, clanging gongs and lighting incense and chanting til blue in the mouth. But there's no dissuading big brother. He swore his chanting had a positive effect on my life. Nope. Can't go there, bro. I mean, I love you too, but...
I have heard of evidence that participating in a religious practice such as chanting and praying and meditating and the lot has some beneficial effect on a person. I have also seen the effects of "what goes around comes around". To me the more accurate saying is "word gets around". As in "don't associate with this person, because he's not overly ____" (fill in the blank) Karma? Spare me. I have never seen a shred of evidence revealing any supernatural basis for anything, no spiritual side of life, no eternity to be shared with my brethren (and sistren), etc. And even if there was such a magical thing, I would hardly be prone to believe *in* it. What a useless thing to do, to sort among competing cloudy concepts, like balloons which bounce off one another until they pop in higher altitudes, and accept and reject one or the other, like creating one's personal jigsaw puzzle.
Now fishing, there's a suitable activity for homo sapiens!
Please don't mind me. I'm just blowing steam, like a Yellowstone geyser. What were we talkin' about? Oh yeah, my ideas were about to implode...
Pop quiz: what do balloons, jigsaw puzzles, and geysers have in common?
Quote from: rickrocks on May 04, 2012, 06:38:21 PM
Before the conversation drifts, let me throw in my two cents on Buddhism...
How soon the conversation degenerates into "I believe this" and "(blah)-ists are generally thus and such". Forget your generalizations and personal variations. There is no basis for belief in anything (sigh, I know that's just my version). Matter of fact, when you start "believing in" things, you step onto a very slippery slope. "Well then how do you explain the nature of our existence?" Why does every question need an ultimate answer? Just let it lie in the dirt and rot. No humans need be present to interpret the sound when trees fall in the forest. Maybe someday someone will develop an instrument or technology or method which will unearth the rotten remnants of your existence, and they will try to explain it in their terms. Oh they may quantify your remains, but of course they will miss what you construed as the meaning of your having been here, until they expire and rot and someone comes along and digs their dirt up and so on. Or you may end up nourishing a tree. The intergalactic superhighway is going to cut through everyone's yard sooner or later. But I digress.
My brother was an atheist until he turned Buddhist. (note spelling) I was mortified. He said it's perfect for atheists because you don't have to believe anything, you just have to do the practice. Well, the practice was as close to religious ritual as I've ever seen, clanging gongs and lighting incense and chanting til blue in the mouth. But there's no dissuading big brother. He swore his chanting had a positive effect on my life. Nope. Can't go there, bro. I mean, I love you too, but...
I have heard of evidence that participating in a religious practice such as chanting and praying and meditating and the lot has some beneficial effect on a person. I have also seen the effects of "what goes around comes around". To me the more accurate saying is "word gets around". As in "don't associate with this person, because he's not overly ____" (fill in the blank) Karma? Spare me. I have never seen a shred of evidence revealing any supernatural basis for anything, no spiritual side of life, no eternity to be shared with my brethren (and sistren), etc. And even if there was such a magical thing, I would hardly be prone to believe *in* it. What a useless thing to do, to sort among competing cloudy concepts, like balloons which bounce off one another until they pop in higher altitudes, and accept and reject one or the other, like creating one's personal jigsaw puzzle.
Now fishing, there's a suitable activity for homo sapiens!
Please don't mind me. I'm just blowing steam, like a Yellowstone geyser. What were we talkin' about? Oh yeah, my ideas were about to implode...
Pop quiz: what do balloons, jigsaw puzzles, and geysers have in common?
The benefits of meditation and other aspects of Buddhist practice seem to have been validated by neuroscience and the secular elements have been integrated into many forms of cognitive behavioural therapy whose beneficial effects on mental health are on the record. Buddhism is not theist and the concept of karma can be discarded without in any way invalidating its central insights.