Hi everybody! My name is Irene and I've recently started being more public with my Atheism. I guess you can say I was raised in an environment ripe for raising an Atheist: while I was baptised Eastern Orthodox Christian, my parents were never strictly religious. I grew up on encyclopaedias and science books and trips to the natural history and science museums. Sure, there were icons in my home and I went to Sunday School for 15 years (from 3-18), but my parents always emphasised that knowledge was the most important thing to acquire. Sure, I believed in God and that his son Jesus Christ was my Lord and Saviour, but I generally ignored everything else and focused on being a good person.
Of course once I hit my high school years the conflict between science and faith began, but I never really dwelled on it. It wasn't until I was at church camp this past summer and a Deacon came to speak with us that I really started questioning religion. In an Orthodox marriage ceremony the wife must vow to be be subservient to her husband, and the Deacon said that he, not his wife, had the harder role in the marriage because he had to make all the decisions. That got me thinking. Why should I be subservient to my future husband? Why should I follow my husband's path alone and not one we create together? Do I not have a brain? Am I not educated? Am I not able to make my own decisions? Why would God give me my knowledge if I had to obey my husband strictly? My idea of marriage is built on friendship, love, and equality. Especially the equality part.
Around this time I also began accepting my bisexuality. Again, the fact that I could go to hell simply for falling in love with someone of my own gender really got me angry about the whole thing. If God commands us to love, then why would you be sent to hell for something as simple as that?
So I finally realised I've probably been an Atheist this whole time. I still attend church to please my parents and see the wonderful people there, but on the whole I think religion is crap. My Catholic friend pointed me towards this forum, and here I am!
I can't wait to make some lovely new atheist friends! You guys seem awesome!
(Sorry for the wall of text. And it's already four in the morning? Damn.)
Hello Irene
What a wonderful story. It's a shame we don't get as many gentle realisations like yours. Often the transition to an atheistic view is connected with a lot of angst both internal (one's own doubts) and external (the hostility of others).
The Eastern Orthodox linkage is interesting. How did that come about?
Thanks for making the effort to sign up and join in.
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Regards
Chris
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Welcome, Irene. Don't apologise for the length of your post, it's interesting.
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AMbut on the whole I think religion is crap.
Crap ye but they do wear some interesting hats.
Hello
Quote from: Asmo on April 25, 2012, 09:24:04 AM
The Eastern Orthodox linkage is interesting. How did that come about?
My family is from Ukraine, so they're all Eastern Orthodox.
Irene, welcome!
I'm glad to meet you. You're definitely among friends here :)
Like you, I also asked the "why would a god send someone to hell for..." (insert issue here) and like you, the answers came up lacking.
Ah, well. As Pudding pointed out, some of the religious do wear spectacular hats. :D
Hello, welcome.
I hope you like it here. I like the way you write. :)
Welcome!
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 03:25:58 PM
Quote from: Asmo on April 25, 2012, 09:24:04 AM
The Eastern Orthodox linkage is interesting. How did that come about?
My family is from Ukraine, so they're all Eastern Orthodox.
Ah! And there was me hoping for a really tortuous route :D
Very nice introduction. Welcome aboard.
Hello and welcome to HAF ladyblackwell. That deacon sounds like a proper Charlie to me, but sometimes such feckless fonts of fatuous folderol inadvertently point people in the right direction.
I enjoyed reading your introduction, but would like to point out that generally the word "atheism" is not capitalized. This is because it's not a proper "ism" like Unitarianism or Catholicism; there are no doctrines or dogmas which define atheism, rather it's a condition or state of not having a belief in a deity or deities. In the same way, one doesn't capitalize a word like "albinism" which is a state of lacking skin pigment. Some atheists capitalize the word (though I've never understood why), but most often you'll see it capitalized by theists who are trying to score a subtle (if inaccurate) rhetorical point. Essentially they're saying that atheism is really a belief system or set of dogmas just like Trinitarianism, for instance. I'm sorry for that little lecture, but it's one of my minor pet peeves. >:( ;)
I hope that you enjoy your time reading and posting here! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg830.imageshack.us%2Fimg830%2F860%2Fsmilew.gif&hash=8238eab24d16418eb1c8cd60d971239ab1363c74)
Quote from: Recusant on April 25, 2012, 05:42:04 PM
Hello and welcome to HAF ladyblackwell. That deacon sounds like a proper Charlie to me, but sometimes such feckless fonts of fatuous folderol inadvertently point people in the right direction.
I enjoyed reading your introduction, but would like to point out that generally the word "atheism" is not capitalized. This is because it's not a proper "ism" like Unitarianism or Catholicism; there are no doctrines or dogmas which define atheism, rather it's a condition or state of not having a belief in a deity or deities. In the same way, one doesn't capitalize a word like "albinism" which is a state of lacking skin pigment. Some atheists capitalize the word (though I've never understood why), but most often you'll see it capitalized by theists who are trying to score a subtle (if inaccurate) rhetorical point. Essentially they're saying that atheism is really a belief system or set of dogmas just like Trinitarianism, for instance. I'm sorry for that little lecture, but it's one of my minor pet peeves. >:( ;)
I hope that you enjoy your time reading and posting here! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg830.imageshack.us%2Fimg830%2F860%2Fsmilew.gif&hash=8238eab24d16418eb1c8cd60d971239ab1363c74)
I'll remember to be a lowercase-a atheist then. Thanks for the tip!
The Deacon is a really nice guy and he and his wife are probably the most in-love, happy couple I've ever met, but that statement just really got to me. I wish him the best and privately thank him for inadvertently showing me the right direction.
Quote from: Asmo on April 25, 2012, 04:23:48 PM
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 03:25:58 PM
Quote from: Asmo on April 25, 2012, 09:24:04 AM
The Eastern Orthodox linkage is interesting. How did that come about?
My family is from Ukraine, so they're all Eastern Orthodox.
Ah! And there was me hoping for a really tortuous route :D
Nope. Although that would have been a really fun story. And Pudding, Orthodox priests/bishops have the best hats.
How did your Catholic friend know of us?
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
the wife must vow to be be subservient to her husband, and the Deacon said that he, not his wife, had the harder role in the marriage because he had to make all the decisions. That got me thinking. Why should I be subservient to my future husband? Why should I follow my husband's path alone and not one we create together? Do I not have a brain? Am I not educated? Am I not able to make my own decisions? Why would God give me my knowledge if I had to obey my husband strictly?
Hmmm, maybe I need to introduce my wife to Eastern Orthodoxy, "Get me a beer, woman!" or maybe just crushing the old can, or tossing it onto the floor, could be the signal.
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
My idea of marriage is built on friendship, love, and equality. Especially the equality part.
God knows what is ideal, who are you to challenge the all knowing, all perfect god?
God is a man, god's son is a man, god's son's apostles are men.
Men were meant to rule, woman are good at cooking, cleaning and making and rearing male babies, that is your purpose, know your place!
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
If God commands us to love, then why would you be sent to hell for something as simple as that?
Because god knows all, sees all.
God doesn't like man on man action, woman on woman action. Why are you forcing god to see you do this? Poor god, he must have nightmares having to watch that. Stop being so selfish think of god, for god's sakes.
Quote from: Stevil on April 26, 2012, 12:42:48 AM
Because god knows all, sees all.
God doesn't like man on man action, woman on woman action. Why are you forcing god to see you do this? Poor god, he must have nightmares having to watch that. Stop being so selfish think of god, for god's sakes.
When you put it that way, it's a bit creepy that God's pornography preferences doom us to hell. :o
Quote from: Tank on April 25, 2012, 10:53:39 PM
How did your Catholic friend know of us?
I have no idea, but she's a religious studies major so maybe she heard about it through that. Or one of her friends.
Quote from: Stevil on April 26, 2012, 12:42:48 AM
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
the wife must vow to be be subservient to her husband, and the Deacon said that he, not his wife, had the harder role in the marriage because he had to make all the decisions. That got me thinking. Why should I be subservient to my future husband? Why should I follow my husband's path alone and not one we create together? Do I not have a brain? Am I not educated? Am I not able to make my own decisions? Why would God give me my knowledge if I had to obey my husband strictly?
Hmmm, maybe I need to introduce my wife to Eastern Orthodoxy, "Get me a beer, woman!" or maybe just crushing the old can, or tossing it onto the floor, could be the signal.
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
My idea of marriage is built on friendship, love, and equality. Especially the equality part.
God knows what is ideal, who are you to challenge the all knowing, all perfect god?
God is a man, god's son is a man, god's son's apostles are men.
Men were meant to rule, woman are good at cooking, cleaning and making and rearing male babies, that is your purpose, know your place!
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
If God commands us to love, then why would you be sent to hell for something as simple as that?
Because god knows all, sees all.
God doesn't like man on man action, woman on woman action. Why are you forcing god to see you do this? Poor god, he must have nightmares having to watch that. Stop being so selfish think of god, for god's sakes.
You better be thankful that it's three in the morning and the lack of sleep has finally gone to my head. I got a real laugh out of those ones.
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 26, 2012, 08:27:21 AM
Quote from: Stevil on April 26, 2012, 12:42:48 AM
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
the wife must vow to be be subservient to her husband, and the Deacon said that he, not his wife, had the harder role in the marriage because he had to make all the decisions. That got me thinking. Why should I be subservient to my future husband? Why should I follow my husband's path alone and not one we create together? Do I not have a brain? Am I not educated? Am I not able to make my own decisions? Why would God give me my knowledge if I had to obey my husband strictly?
Hmmm, maybe I need to introduce my wife to Eastern Orthodoxy, "Get me a beer, woman!" or maybe just crushing the old can, or tossing it onto the floor, could be the signal.
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
My idea of marriage is built on friendship, love, and equality. Especially the equality part.
God knows what is ideal, who are you to challenge the all knowing, all perfect god?
God is a man, god's son is a man, god's son's apostles are men.
Men were meant to rule, woman are good at cooking, cleaning and making and rearing male babies, that is your purpose, know your place!
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
If God commands us to love, then why would you be sent to hell for something as simple as that?
Because god knows all, sees all.
God doesn't like man on man action, woman on woman action. Why are you forcing god to see you do this? Poor god, he must have nightmares having to watch that. Stop being so selfish think of god, for god's sakes.
You better be thankful that it's three in the morning and the lack of sleep has finally gone to my head. I got a real laugh out of those ones.
That would have been Stevil's intent. It's 100% tongue in cheek!
Quote from: Amicale on April 26, 2012, 12:51:34 AM
Quote from: Stevil on April 26, 2012, 12:42:48 AM
Because god knows all, sees all.
God doesn't like man on man action, woman on woman action. Why are you forcing god to see you do this? Poor god, he must have nightmares having to watch that. Stop being so selfish think of god, for god's sakes.
When you put it that way, it's a bit creepy that God's pornography preferences doom us to hell. :o
*shudders*
Welcome, ladyblackwell :)
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
Hi everybody! My name is Irene and I've recently started being more public with my Atheism. I guess you can say I was raised in an environment ripe for raising an Atheist: while I was baptised Eastern Orthodox Christian, my parents were never strictly religious. I grew up on encyclopaedias and science books and trips to the natural history and science museums. Sure, there were icons in my home and I went to Sunday School for 15 years (from 3-18), but my parents always emphasised that knowledge was the most important thing to acquire. Sure, I believed in God and that his son Jesus Christ was my Lord and Saviour, but I generally ignored everything else and focused on being a good person.
Of course once I hit my high school years the conflict between science and faith began, but I never really dwelled on it. It wasn't until I was at church camp this past summer and a Deacon came to speak with us that I really started questioning religion. In an Orthodox marriage ceremony the wife must vow to be be subservient to her husband, and the Deacon said that he, not his wife, had the harder role in the marriage because he had to make all the decisions. That got me thinking. Why should I be subservient to my future husband? Why should I follow my husband's path alone and not one we create together? Do I not have a brain? Am I not educated? Am I not able to make my own decisions? Why would God give me my knowledge if I had to obey my husband strictly? My idea of marriage is built on friendship, love, and equality. Especially the equality part.
Around this time I also began accepting my bisexuality. Again, the fact that I could go to hell simply for falling in love with someone of my own gender really got me angry about the whole thing. If God commands us to love, then why would you be sent to hell for something as simple as that?
So I finally realised I've probably been an Atheist this whole time. I still attend church to please my parents and see the wonderful people there, but on the whole I think religion is crap. My Catholic friend pointed me towards this forum, and here I am!
I can't wait to make some lovely new atheist friends! You guys seem awesome!
(Sorry for the wall of text. And it's already four in the morning? Damn.)
Welcome. I just got into an argument a few weeks ago with a Christian woman over the subservient issue. She tried saying that the translation is off. I told her no they have gone ever it and found that the king james version was pretty close. She said no people changed it. I told her it is a sin to change the bible and it is a sin to not believe any of it so you have to be subservient to your man. She kept bull charging with the translation being off. Yeah okay whatever you say. God is a man and men are in control, yet woman is the birth giver. Doesn't make any sense to me either, but you can tell that the bible was written by a man.
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
(Sorry for the wall of text. And it's already four in the morning? Damn.)
Never apologize for being interesting. That was quite some intro, and it fascinates me how much similarity there is among otherwise unconnected people.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 04:39:06 PM
. . . She kept bull charging with the translation being off. Yeah okay whatever you say.
Well, when it's all you've got it's what you use. I actually feel encouraged by "the translation is off" types, at least they're willing to consider that mistakes have gotten into a supposedly infallible book, and that's a start.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 30, 2012, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
(Sorry for the wall of text. And it's already four in the morning? Damn.)
Never apologize for being interesting. That was quite some intro, and it fascinates me how much similarity there is among otherwise unconnected people.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 04:39:06 PM
. . . She kept bull charging with the translation being off. Yeah okay whatever you say.
Well, when it's all you've got it's what you use. I actually feel encouraged by "the translation is off" types, at least they're willing to consider that mistakes have gotten into a supposedly infallible book, and that's a start.
So true. Although it seems more of a copout for people who just can't believe what actually in the book. The book is infallible so you must believe all of it. I usually follow that subservient thing with a now bring me a grilled cheese sandwhich woman!! And you better use butter God help you if you don't use butter >:(
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 06:12:08 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 30, 2012, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
(Sorry for the wall of text. And it's already four in the morning? Damn.)
Never apologize for being interesting. That was quite some intro, and it fascinates me how much similarity there is among otherwise unconnected people.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 04:39:06 PM
. . . She kept bull charging with the translation being off. Yeah okay whatever you say.
Well, when it's all you've got it's what you use. I actually feel encouraged by "the translation is off" types, at least they're willing to consider that mistakes have gotten into a supposedly infallible book, and that's a start.
So true. Although it seems more of a copout for people who just can't believe what actually in the book. The book is infallible so you must believe all of it. I usually follow that subservient thing with a now bring me a grilled cheese sandwhich woman!! And you better use butter God help you if you don't use butter >:(
But your wife only needs to be subservient to you, so long as you're willing to die for her and love her like Christ loved the church. ;) Don't forget that part! So tell her to make you that grilled cheese sandwich, but if someone breaks in to steal that grilled cheese sandwich because it's just that damned good, you'd better jump up and defend the heck out of her.
Good sandwich makers are worth defending. :D
Quote from: Amicale on April 30, 2012, 07:15:00 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 06:12:08 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 30, 2012, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: ladyblackwell on April 25, 2012, 08:53:56 AM
(Sorry for the wall of text. And it's already four in the morning? Damn.)
Never apologize for being interesting. That was quite some intro, and it fascinates me how much similarity there is among otherwise unconnected people.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 04:39:06 PM
. . . She kept bull charging with the translation being off. Yeah okay whatever you say.
Well, when it's all you've got it's what you use. I actually feel encouraged by "the translation is off" types, at least they're willing to consider that mistakes have gotten into a supposedly infallible book, and that's a start.
So true. Although it seems more of a copout for people who just can't believe what actually in the book. The book is infallible so you must believe all of it. I usually follow that subservient thing with a now bring me a grilled cheese sandwhich woman!! And you better use butter God help you if you don't use butter >:(
But your wife only needs to be subservient to you, so long as you're willing to die for her and love her like Christ loved the church. ;) Don't forget that part! So tell her to make you that grilled cheese sandwich, but if someone breaks in to steal that grilled cheese sandwich because it's just that damned good, you'd better jump up and defend the heck out of her.
Good sandwich makers are worth defending. :D
I would if I were married! My last girl was just a fling. But if I ever found one that could make a perfect grilled cheese sandwhich I would defend her honor, as well as the grilled cheese, to the death!!
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 08:56:07 PM
I would if I were married! My last girl was just a fling. But if I ever found one that could make a perfect grilled cheese sandwhich I would defend her honor, as well as the grilled cheese, to the death!!
:D My kinda man!
Hi and welcome! I hope you enjoy your time here!
Quote from: Amicale on April 30, 2012, 10:14:50 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 08:56:07 PM
I would if I were married! My last girl was just a fling. But if I ever found one that could make a perfect grilled cheese sandwhich I would defend her honor, as well as the grilled cheese, to the death!!
:D My kinda man!
Yeah but if they had a gun I would jump in front of the grilled cheese first :P
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 01, 2012, 03:45:35 PM
Quote from: Amicale on April 30, 2012, 10:14:50 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on April 30, 2012, 08:56:07 PM
I would if I were married! My last girl was just a fling. But if I ever found one that could make a perfect grilled cheese sandwhich I would defend her honor, as well as the grilled cheese, to the death!!
:D My kinda man!
Yeah but if they had a gun I would jump in front of the grilled cheese first :P
Only reasonable. ;) If you're gonna get into a gunfight, you need a good, fortifying grilled cheese sandwich to keep you going. ;)
I call on all educated types here to elucidate me. I believe that there is some evidence that the bible was not composed all at once, similar to the ten commandments, by one person, such as God himself, but rather it was compiled over time. I don't have enough details in my head, nor do I have the time, being only semi-retired, but I think the books of the old testament are much older than those of the new, and that the books of the new testament are by several to many writers at different points in history. Since the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, gospel of St Thomas, etc there has been questions as to who decided which books would make it into the version, accepted as the literal word of God or something for the last 2k years. I apologize for my lack of scholarship.
Oh yeah, and welcome to the forum..