This has always been a thing with me, the claim that in the afterlife our souls will either experience eternal happiness and bliss, or eternal pain and torment. But I see a problem with this thinking. Consider the following...
Scenario -1 : You eat a piece of chocolate and experience both a pleasant physical and emotional reaction - the enjoyment of the taste of the chocolate as it melts in your mouth and the contentment you feel as a result of this.
Scenario - 2: You're a smoker. You're enjoying your favorite brand of cigarette and taking a long, draw to get all the nicotine goodness deep into your lungs. Suddenly you jump in pain as hot ash falls from the tip and sears your balls. Yes, for some reason you're smoking naked. The pleasure has become pain.
The point of this is that emotions and physical responses are entirely the product of a complex organic system which receives input from our senses, is processed by the brain and is then experienced either physically or emotionally by the individual.
The soul is not a complex organic system, it is the spiritual, non-corporeal remnant of the complex organic system that is now sitting in an urn on your widow's mantle. Since the soul has shed its organic shell, there is no way it can experience physical or emotional stimuli of any kind. Ostensibly then, all those souls in Hell are feeling no pain and all those souls in Heaven are experiencing no joy. The complex organic system that processed those stimuli is dead.
So a soul, if it were real, would be immune to suffering and incapable of emotion. If it reacted with these responses to a given stimuli, it would have to be as a resut of it merely remembering what sort of response a given stimuli should generate. Of course memory is also a product of the same complex organic system that is now dead so it wouldn't be capable of that either.
Which means all this stuff about a soul is just more religious detritus to be jettisoned as quickly as possible.
There is no soul.
Quote from: MadBomr101 on April 05, 2012, 05:21:12 AM
The point of this is that emotions and physical responses are entirely the product of a complex organic system
Unfortunately, you can't know that this statement is true.
Scientifically they can prove that emotions and physical responses are associated with complex organic systems.
But they can't prove that their isn't a metaphysical soul also associated with complex organic systems. They can't prove it, because souls cannot be measured or observed, therefore they cannot observe a correlation between the soul and the complex organic system.
This stuff is entirely in the realm of theology. They have spent thousands of years sorting out the logic of their theology, they have an answer for everything. None of the answers ever tie into anything that can ever be measured. How they ensure that their explanations remain untestable is that they only stick to conceptual terms. The soul is a concept, so is the mind, so is morality, so is god and heaven, so is good and evil. They are not dumb, they know what they are doing.
I was talking to a catholic, she was telling me that your soul is where your memories are. I suggested that if that is the case then why do brain damaged people sometimes have memory problems. She said because the body uses the brain to access the soul's memories. BS answer, but you can't test for it. It remains conceptual, a person can choose to believe it or not.
yeah, there's no soul. It's weird that people still cling to ideas formulated by people thousands of years ago who didn't have any of the medical / neurological knowledge we have today. It's like still believing that the universe is made from four elements.
Quote from: MadBomr101 on April 05, 2012, 05:21:12 AM
Scenario - 2: You're a smoker. You're enjoying your favorite brand of cigarette and taking a long, draw to get all the nicotine goodness deep into your lungs. Suddenly you jump in pain as hot ash falls from the tip and sears your balls. Yes, for some reason you're smoking naked. The pleasure has become pain.
Been there. Done that.
Quote from: fester30 on April 05, 2012, 11:53:25 AM
Quote from: MadBomr101 on April 05, 2012, 05:21:12 AM
Scenario - 2: You're a smoker. You're enjoying your favorite brand of cigarette and taking a long, draw to get all the nicotine goodness deep into your lungs. Suddenly you jump in pain as hot ash falls from the tip and sears your balls. Yes, for some reason you're smoking naked. The pleasure has become pain.
Been there. Done that.
Have been a smoker for years, both naked and otherwise... Never did that.
What I did do many times, however, is get a cig stuck to my lips, so when I try holding it with two fingers, they slide along and end up holding the ember.
If you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt.
there is a document called "the ghost in the machine" by If I remember correctly
EBON MUSING
or something like that...
it explains perfectly how the brain works and how it is impossible for a soul to exist. Unfortunately I have it greek and I dont think linking you to the greek translation would help
Quote from: Stevil on April 05, 2012, 07:35:32 PM
If you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt.
Played a lot with fire, never gor burned by it. That saying is just bullshit.
Got some molten plastic, cigarette and hot metal burns, but those are not fire - just hot objects.
Quote from: Asmodean on April 05, 2012, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: Stevil on April 05, 2012, 07:35:32 PM
If you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt.
Played a lot with fire, never gor burned by it. That saying is just bullshit.
Got some molten plastic, cigarette and hot metal burns, but those are not fire - just hot objects.
So you were holding the ember but didn't get burned.
Are you some kind of superhero?
Quote from: Asmodean on April 05, 2012, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: Stevil on April 05, 2012, 07:35:32 PM
If you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt.
Played a lot with fire, never gor burned by it. That saying is just bullshit.
Got some molten plastic, cigarette and hot metal burns, but those are not fire - just hot objects.
For some reason, picturing you smoking with your lips pierced is kinda sexy~
Quote from: Stevil on April 05, 2012, 09:07:17 PM
So you were holding the ember but didn't get burned.
Are you some kind of superhero?
Oh, I did get burned. But not by fire.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 05, 2012, 09:09:09 PM
For some reason, picturing you smoking with your lips pierced is kinda sexy~
Yes, some do find it so.
Me, I don't think it's the smoking that's sexy - it's
how you do it, just like with everything else.
Quote from: Asmodean on April 05, 2012, 09:17:07 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 05, 2012, 09:09:09 PM
For some reason, picturing you smoking with your lips pierced is kinda sexy~
Yes, some do find it so.
Me, I don't think it's the smoking that's sexy - it's how you do it, just like with everything else.
Oh, I totally agree~ <3
Quote from: Asmodean on April 05, 2012, 09:15:48 PM
Quote from: Stevil on April 05, 2012, 09:07:17 PM
So you were holding the ember but didn't get burned.
Are you some kind of superhero?
Oh, I did get burned. But not by fire.
Your cigarette doesn't burn with fire?
Does it smoke due to chemical reaction?
Quote from: Stevil on April 05, 2012, 09:25:06 PM
Your cigarette doesn't burn with fire?
Does it smoke due to chemical reaction?
Oxidation is not rapid enough. It is hot, but it's not burning - just smoldering. When you actively draw the smoke in, however, it comes very close to what one would consider burning.
This thread makes me want to smoke. Ember burns and all (been there, although not anywhere near my lady parts, thank Asmo.) I totally get what alcoholics mean when they say they'll always be an alcoholic, no matter how long they're sober.
Quote from: Asmodean on April 05, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Oxidation is not rapid enough. It is hot, but it's not burning - just smoldering.
A smoldering fire as opposed to a raging fire?
Quote from: Stevil on April 06, 2012, 12:43:21 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on April 05, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Oxidation is not rapid enough. It is hot, but it's not burning - just smoldering.
A smoldering fire as opposed to a raging fire?
More open flame vs. the lack thereof.
Quote from: Asmodean on April 06, 2012, 01:28:30 AM
Quote from: Stevil on April 06, 2012, 12:43:21 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on April 05, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Oxidation is not rapid enough. It is hot, but it's not burning - just smoldering.
A smoldering fire as opposed to a raging fire?
More open flame vs. the lack thereof.
;D I'm not sold on the idea that a lit smoke does not contain fire, but, hey it's not worth arguing about.
Quote from: Stevil on April 05, 2012, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: MadBomr101 on April 05, 2012, 05:21:12 AM
The point of this is that emotions and physical responses are entirely the product of a complex organic system
Unfortunately, you can't know that this statement is true. Scientifically they can prove that emotions and physical responses are associated with complex organic systems. But they can't prove that their isn't a metaphysical soul also associated with complex organic systems. They can't prove it, because souls cannot be measured or observed, therefore they cannot observe a correlation between the soul and the complex organic system.
Which makes the soul indistinguishable from something that doesn't exist at all. It's like saying I have a little purple troll named Dougie who lives in the crack of my ass but Dougie can't be seen, verified or measured in any meaningful way. So is it more plausible that Dougie exists within these ridiculous rules or that he probably doesn't exist at all?
No love for Dougie the Ass Troll here. :'(
The naked smoker thing is getting way more attention than the soul thing. Maybe I shoulda put clothes on him. :P
Quote from: MadBomr101 on April 06, 2012, 03:22:07 AM
The naked smoker thing is getting way more attention than the soul thing. Maybe I shoulda put clothes on him. :P
It's true. XD
I definitely wouldn't smoke naked I don't trust myself.
Quote from: MadBomr101 on April 06, 2012, 03:22:07 AM
The naked smoker thing is getting way more attention than the soul thing. Maybe I shoulda put clothes on him. :P
Might have a little something to do with The Asmo and his club being all over it :P
Quote from: Asmodean on April 06, 2012, 08:01:31 AM
Quote from: MadBomr101 on April 06, 2012, 03:22:07 AM
The naked smoker thing is getting way more attention than the soul thing. Maybe I shoulda put clothes on him. :P
Might have a little something to do with The Asmo and his club being all over it :P
Oh, so now we're
your club? :p
<3
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 06, 2012, 12:49:26 PM
Oh, so now we're your club? :p
<3
Says so in the Book of Asmoism. It also says that the book is true and right and good, so... It IS.
Quote from: MariaEvri on April 05, 2012, 07:49:39 PM
there is a document called "the ghost in the machine" by If I remember correctly
EBON MUSING
or something like that...
it explains perfectly how the brain works and how it is impossible for a soul to exist. Unfortunately I have it greek and I dont think linking you to the greek translation would help
I've known "Ebon" for years. Good guy. Intelligent.
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/
Quote from: Asmodean on April 06, 2012, 12:59:44 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 06, 2012, 12:49:26 PM
Oh, so now we're your club? :p
<3
Says so in the Book of Asmoism. It also says that the book is true and right and good, so... It IS.
Quote from: Gawen on April 06, 2012, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: MariaEvri on April 05, 2012, 07:49:39 PM
there is a document called "the ghost in the machine" by If I remember correctly
EBON MUSING
or something like that...
it explains perfectly how the brain works and how it is impossible for a soul to exist. Unfortunately I have it greek and I dont think linking you to the greek translation would help
I've known "Ebon" for years. Good guy. Intelligent.
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/
thanks for the link. The document I was talking about is there :)