Title: Germany seeking to ban Scientology
Post by: jrosebud on December 10, 2007, 09:56:07 PM
Post by: jrosebud on December 10, 2007, 09:56:07 PM
I'm not a big fan of censorship or philosophical/religious restriction, but I'm not too sad to see that Germany may be telling Scientology to take a hike. IMO, it's a pyramid scheme and cultish organization that murders and blackmails in order to expand it's money-making empire.
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
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Post by: Will on December 10, 2007, 10:29:48 PM
Post by: Will on December 10, 2007, 10:29:48 PM
Bwahahahaha....
Yeah, scientology really isn't even a religion.
Yeah, scientology really isn't even a religion.
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Post by: pjkeeley on December 11, 2007, 03:07:39 AM
Post by: pjkeeley on December 11, 2007, 03:07:39 AM
This would not be a good thing regardless of how shitty Scientology is. If there are illegal activities going on within German Scientology then they should be investigated and prosecuted. To ban an organisation however is to treat beliefs as thought crimes. Very Orwellian. Germany has surely experienced enough tyranny for one century. Gah! This type of proposal always makes me mad.
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Post by: Will on December 11, 2007, 03:09:38 AM
Post by: Will on December 11, 2007, 03:09:38 AM
Quote from: "pjkeeley"This would not be a good thing regardless of how shitty Scientology is. If there are illegal activities going on within German Scientology then they should be investigated and prosecuted. To ban an organisation however is to treat beliefs as thought crimes. Very Orwellian. Germany has surely experienced enough tyranny for one century. Gah! This type of proposal always makes me mad.And if the whole organization is illegal? I mean it really is a scam. All of it.
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Post by: jrosebud on December 11, 2007, 04:57:24 AM
Post by: jrosebud on December 11, 2007, 04:57:24 AM
Scientology isn't recognized as a religion in Germany; it's a commercial enterprise hiding behind the cloak of religion.
As I understand it, they would ban the business portion of the organization rather than attempt to police the thoughts of the German citizens.
As I understand it, they would ban the business portion of the organization rather than attempt to police the thoughts of the German citizens.
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Post by: rlrose328 on December 11, 2007, 07:15:54 AM
Post by: rlrose328 on December 11, 2007, 07:15:54 AM
I totally agree... Do some searches online about lawsuits and children in Scientology. It's shocking. And yet Mr. Cruise, Mr. Travolta and the other celebrities will go to great lengths to deny those things are happening. Of COURSE they're not happening to THEM. Duh. :roll:
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Post by: 0dan1 on December 11, 2007, 06:34:51 PM
Post by: 0dan1 on December 11, 2007, 06:34:51 PM
I'm hoping Germany are not banning it because they disagree with the belief.
It must be because of valid economical reasons, or something in their laws around business.
Although they need to be careful WHAT exactly they define as 'Scientology' and what about it they ban...
but yeah... scientology is fucking stupid. worst. religion. evar.
It must be because of valid economical reasons, or something in their laws around business.
Although they need to be careful WHAT exactly they define as 'Scientology' and what about it they ban...
but yeah... scientology is fucking stupid. worst. religion. evar.
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Post by: Will on December 11, 2007, 08:11:28 PM
Post by: Will on December 11, 2007, 08:11:28 PM
Quote from: "0dan1"I'm hoping Germany are not banning it because they disagree with the belief.Germany hasn't been quiet about their reasoning: it's a scam. It has nothing to do with Xenu or volcano souls and has everything to do with people losing money to a scam.
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Post by: SteveS on December 11, 2007, 09:33:07 PM
Post by: SteveS on December 11, 2007, 09:33:07 PM
I agree with Willravel on this one. I think Scientology is a thinly veiled fraudulent enterprise. I also believe this has a lot to do with the attitude of the German government and their position here. They don't seem to be banning other religions.....
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Post by: rlrose328 on December 12, 2007, 05:24:57 AM
Post by: rlrose328 on December 12, 2007, 05:24:57 AM
Count me a third in line on the scam thing... idiots.
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Post by: tacoma_kyle on December 12, 2007, 06:16:47 AM
Post by: tacoma_kyle on December 12, 2007, 06:16:47 AM
You all coulda just watched the Southpark on it! lol. Well he locks himself in the closet haha.
But as far as banning it, really I don't think they should, big scam or not. But doesnt bother me if they do, by any means. Heck Germany is probably doing it because they cant collect taxes or somethin off of them
. It is widely enough known that scientology has a rep for 'scamming' (interpret as you will), at least they aren't tryin to get it thrown in the gov like all these Christians are. Or at least as far as I know...
But as far as banning it, really I don't think they should, big scam or not. But doesnt bother me if they do, by any means. Heck Germany is probably doing it because they cant collect taxes or somethin off of them
. It is widely enough known that scientology has a rep for 'scamming' (interpret as you will), at least they aren't tryin to get it thrown in the gov like all these Christians are. Or at least as far as I know...
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Post by: jrosebud on December 12, 2007, 06:08:08 PM
Post by: jrosebud on December 12, 2007, 06:08:08 PM
Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"It is widely enough known that scientology has a rep for 'scamming' (interpret as you will), at least they aren't tryin to get it thrown in the gov like all these Christians are. Or at least as far as I know...
Actually, they do. They blackmail and coerce their way into government positions.
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Post by: tacoma_kyle on December 13, 2007, 05:55:37 AM
Post by: tacoma_kyle on December 13, 2007, 05:55:37 AM
Oh ok. So its more like mafia?
So its more like mafia?
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Post by: Will on December 13, 2007, 06:37:52 AM
Post by: Will on December 13, 2007, 06:37:52 AM
Mafia + Xenu = Scientological good times
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Post by: Gibson on December 13, 2007, 04:05:22 PM
Post by: Gibson on December 13, 2007, 04:05:22 PM
Enjoying this whole topic. Funny stuff. Although it was probably unintentional, I thought the spelling of L. Ron Hubbard as "Elron" was good and insulting.
I seem to remember that Hubbard created scientology for the tax breaks. And then he mysteriously died, but then started publishing again. Yeah.... uh, his kids found more books hidden in his attic. Hm, something like that.
It's downright pathetic that ANYONE can believe this crap. Xenu? WTF? Although, as Julia Sweeney said in "Letting Go of God," (paraphrased) - if people came to the door and started telling me about the Holy Spirit impregnating a young teenager, but she was still a virgin, and then her baby was the son of God... that's pretty weird too, but we're used to that story.
I seem to remember that Hubbard created scientology for the tax breaks. And then he mysteriously died, but then started publishing again. Yeah.... uh, his kids found more books hidden in his attic. Hm, something like that.
It's downright pathetic that ANYONE can believe this crap. Xenu? WTF? Although, as Julia Sweeney said in "Letting Go of God," (paraphrased) - if people came to the door and started telling me about the Holy Spirit impregnating a young teenager, but she was still a virgin, and then her baby was the son of God... that's pretty weird too, but we're used to that story.
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Post by: Mister Joy on December 13, 2007, 10:07:32 PM
Post by: Mister Joy on December 13, 2007, 10:07:32 PM
Good on Germany. Half of those money-laundering fraudsters deserve to be put in prison anyway.
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Post by: shoruke on December 14, 2007, 03:16:29 AM
Post by: shoruke on December 14, 2007, 03:16:29 AM
I did scientology for my report in critical thinking class...
Anyone ever heard of Operation Snow White? The Church of Scientology infiltrated the government offices of (I think) 32 different countries, in order to remove (delete, destroy, and/or confiscate) any incriminating evidence against scientology. The countries included the U.S. but not Canada. After they were discovered, Toronto was alerted, and there was huge government raids into all the churches of scientology (yes, including the one in Toronto)... a bunch of higher-up scientologists were arrested... Hubbard and his wife were charged...
Anyway, I think Scientology is classified as a religion in the U.S., but it's only a cult in Canada and Germany. A thumb-up to the German PM for recognizing scientology for what it was and banning it.
P.S. my history teacher has trivia every Friday with our classes... he asks questions from the local newspapers and news stations...
Mr. Hedlin: Germany banned this cult fro-
Me: (Hand shoots up) Scientology!
Mr. Hedlin: Right, Scientology, one point for the north side of the class...
Anyone ever heard of Operation Snow White? The Church of Scientology infiltrated the government offices of (I think) 32 different countries, in order to remove (delete, destroy, and/or confiscate) any incriminating evidence against scientology. The countries included the U.S. but not Canada. After they were discovered, Toronto was alerted, and there was huge government raids into all the churches of scientology (yes, including the one in Toronto)... a bunch of higher-up scientologists were arrested... Hubbard and his wife were charged...
Anyway, I think Scientology is classified as a religion in the U.S., but it's only a cult in Canada and Germany. A thumb-up to the German PM for recognizing scientology for what it was and banning it.
P.S. my history teacher has trivia every Friday with our classes... he asks questions from the local newspapers and news stations...
Mr. Hedlin: Germany banned this cult fro-
Me: (Hand shoots up) Scientology!
Mr. Hedlin: Right, Scientology, one point for the north side of the class...
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Post by: tacoma_kyle on December 14, 2007, 03:57:24 AM
Post by: tacoma_kyle on December 14, 2007, 03:57:24 AM
What? North-south...what ever happened to east-side/west-side?
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Post by: tacoma_kyle on December 15, 2007, 05:56:21 AM
Post by: tacoma_kyle on December 15, 2007, 05:56:21 AM
Oh yeah when I called him Elron, haha I just forgot that it was L. Ron .
ANyone else in to calling him Elron? haha I am down with it.
.ANyone else in to calling him Elron? haha I am down with it.
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Post by: Mister Joy on December 15, 2007, 07:22:15 AM
Post by: Mister Joy on December 15, 2007, 07:22:15 AM
Yeah I thought it was Elron for a while. I have so much overflowing respect for the man, though, that I am now woefully ashamed. I can't sleep a wink with all the self-loathing & am contemplating a mass suicide for all of those who share my past mistake, if you'd care to join me.
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Post by: flo1989 on January 05, 2008, 03:10:26 AM
Post by: flo1989 on January 05, 2008, 03:10:26 AM
well I am from Germany and thought I might comment
Ofcourse I cannot represent all of Germany but I will try^^
ok first of all, Scientology has ruined dozens of lives and stolen thousands of Euros, which in Germany is seen as a definite scamming or theft operation (eg Mafia).
We have a saying, ''You want too little rules go to France, you want too many come to Germany''
In other words there were probably loads of laws these guys broke.
And anyways you can't be serious, I mean Xenu??? Coming from outer space from planets ruled by a despot???? WTF??? just some immature star trek fans (no offense to all of u mature ones^^) if u ask me, that want some extra Cash and want to rip of the little guys.
Ofcourse I cannot represent all of Germany but I will try^^
ok first of all, Scientology has ruined dozens of lives and stolen thousands of Euros, which in Germany is seen as a definite scamming or theft operation (eg Mafia).
We have a saying, ''You want too little rules go to France, you want too many come to Germany''
In other words there were probably loads of laws these guys broke.
And anyways you can't be serious, I mean Xenu??? Coming from outer space from planets ruled by a despot???? WTF??? just some immature star trek fans (no offense to all of u mature ones^^) if u ask me, that want some extra Cash and want to rip of the little guys.
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Post by: Whitney on January 05, 2008, 03:22:32 AM
Post by: Whitney on January 05, 2008, 03:22:32 AM
The only reason Scientology is so easily laughed at is because it is a young religion and has few followers. Since it is young and has few followers it's scams not as easily looked over as the scams run constantly by those who claim to follow older religions (such as Christianity...see the thread about the prayer blanket god mail).
MOST religions are set up to rip off the little guys...it's just a matter of how obvious they are about it and especially if the mainstream population considers their beliefs "normal" or not.
If you ask me....Lord Xenu enslaving souls of captured space people on earth in volcanoes makes just as much sense as god making a virgin pregnant then making that child (who is also god) sacrifice himself to himself.
Singling out Scientology when other religious groups also ruin lives and take money from the clueless makes it seem more like a case of religious intolerance to me than one of trying to protect people.
Not to mention that banning religious cults never did anything to stop what they are doing....certainly didn't work on Christianity; they thrived on persecution and now look what we have.
MOST religions are set up to rip off the little guys...it's just a matter of how obvious they are about it and especially if the mainstream population considers their beliefs "normal" or not.
If you ask me....Lord Xenu enslaving souls of captured space people on earth in volcanoes makes just as much sense as god making a virgin pregnant then making that child (who is also god) sacrifice himself to himself.
Singling out Scientology when other religious groups also ruin lives and take money from the clueless makes it seem more like a case of religious intolerance to me than one of trying to protect people.
Not to mention that banning religious cults never did anything to stop what they are doing....certainly didn't work on Christianity; they thrived on persecution and now look what we have.
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Post by: Big Mac on January 05, 2008, 05:32:26 PM
Post by: Big Mac on January 05, 2008, 05:32:26 PM
Quote from: "Willravel"Quote from: "0dan1"I'm hoping Germany are not banning it because they disagree with the belief.Germany hasn't been quiet about their reasoning: it's a scam. It has nothing to do with Xenu or volcano souls and has everything to do with people losing money to a scam.
I'll give other religions credit, at least they aren't so forceful with the money grabbing. You don't have to donate so much to gain so little. Though both are dumb, the Co$ is a scam.