Let's say I wanted to be a Christian.
Let's say that eternity in heaven sounds like a great future,
Being able to be a good person on earth is desired and hence knowing what is absolute right from absolute wrong is essential.
God is too abstract, an invisible, infinite, eternal entity, is too hard to visualise.
Jesus, was a person (or so the bible says), but also god, he looks similar to me (from the paintings that I have seen), white, good looking :P, I could grow a beard if I want to ;D
So, now that I am sold on the idea, how do I go about believing it?
Well, I have long argued that I don't have a choice about believing - you can't force yourself to believe something that you really think is bollocks. At least I can't.
You would have to find a way to rationalise your perceptions into that belief. Then confirm them via confirmation bias so that they're in a self-reinforcing feedback loop.
I don't know if a long time sceptic of Christianity would be so easily accepting of that belief system though. My guess is the furthest you could go down the rabbit hole is the vague "spiritual" with a belief in "something beyond nature" which if you were scientifically illiterate would be equivalent to thinking "well, you can't see air, so how do you know that air exists? The same for the supernatural and god"
But, the more you know about manipulation tactics and science, the more immune you are to some of the outward silly assertions that religions make. So...I don't know if it's as simple as that.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2012, 10:44:11 PM
You would have to find a way to rationalise your perceptions into that belief. Then confirm them via confirmation bias so that they're in a self-reinforcing feedback loop.
Maybe, need to find "proof" to confirm belief.
Like pray that I will believe and be a good Christian if only I were to win lotto, then "nek minute". Holy Jesus I'm a winner, Thank you lord I now believe.
Or maybe I need desperate times, like a sick and dying child, then a desperate last ditch pray, then "nek minute.." a miracle recovery.
For some, maybe a lucky narrow escape from disaster,
Or a religious experience
http://listosaur.com/miscellaneous/10-rock-stars-who-found-jesus.html (http://listosaur.com/miscellaneous/10-rock-stars-who-found-jesus.html)
Quote
McBrain gave his life to Christ in 1999 in an emotional experience after going to church with his wife, Rebecca. As McBrain told Willow Creek Association News, he prayed to receive Christ, and began to read the Bible. "I had this love affair with Jesus going on in my heart," he said. McBrain still tours with the band, playing the songs that made the band popular. He's also part of the worship music team at his church in Florida. He believes his seemingly incongruous lifestyle is part of the Lord's plan. McBrain has given his testimony in front of heavy metal fans, and seen them commit their life to Jesus and he also frequently talks with fellow Iron Maiden members about his beliefs.
"I can't say to you that I'm trying to convert all these guys in my band to be Christians," McBrain told Canada.com in 2009. "I'm leading them on my route, and if they choose to follow what God's plan is in the Bible, that's up to them. I say to them all, you know, look, in my belief, at the moment, if you turn to your savior Jesus Christ, I'll have eternal life in Heaven with you!"
It's like a contagious disease.
I'm a fan of the mentalist Derren Brown, here's a clip where he sort of hypnotised a crowd to believe in god:
Derren Brown -instant conversion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzn9rX7rauA)
But Stevil, your standards of proof are way too high...why couldn't you just accept that if you found your keys after looking for them one day while running really late, but arrive at work just in time to be a miracle? You certainly don't make it any easier for yourself.
God helmet, pehaps? ;D
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2012, 11:19:56 PM
I'm a fan of the mentalist Derren Brown, here's a clip where he sort of hypnotised a crowd to believe in god:
Derren Brown -instant conversion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzn9rX7rauA)
I'll have to check that out when I get home.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2012, 11:19:56 PM
But Stevil, your standards of proof are way too high...why couldn't you just accept that if you found your keys after looking for them one day while running really late, but arrive at work just in time to be a miracle? You certainly don't make it any easier for yourself.
God helmet, pehaps? ;D
It seems one has to have a poor grasp of statistical probability and an ego of this happened to me because I was chosen, I am special.
Does this mean that atheists are less likely to play black jack and roulette?
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
Let's say I wanted to be a Christian.
Let's say that eternity in heaven sounds like a great future,
Being able to be a good person on earth is desired and hence knowing what is absolute right from absolute wrong is essential.
God is too abstract, an invisible, infinite, eternal entity, is too hard to visualise.
Jesus, was a person (or so the bible says), but also god, he looks similar to me (from the paintings that I have seen), white, good looking :P, I could grow a beard if I want to ;D
So, now that I am sold on the idea, how do I go about believing it?
I think if you wanted to go about believing in Christianity, you'd have to do more than just convince yourself that things actually happened as the Bible claims they did - (ie, that God created the world, that Jesus is God, that Jesus actually did die because of the sins of humanity, and was raised again, thus defeating the death that humanity deserves if we only trust in him for salvation.) Aside from choosing to accept those things as the Bible presents them, you'd also have to think long and hard about whether or not you admired the character of God as presented in the Bible. Is this God the sort of being you'd want to worship for eternity? Eternity in heaven isn't just the ability to live forever in happiness with your loved ones, after all. It's an eternity spent with that specific God, and not just spent with him, but worshipping him. If that doesn't sound especially palatable to you, then whether or not you think the actual events in the Bible happened may be besides the point. ;)
Quote from: Ali on April 02, 2012, 10:34:43 PM
Well, I have long argued that I don't have a choice about believing - you can't force yourself to believe something that you really think is bollocks. At least I can't.
Right. When I lost my faith in Christianity, it wasn't because I was mad at God, or because I didn't know enough about God. I simply had more questions than answers, and eventually I had more criticisms of the whole idea than I had reasons to believe it. I no longer saw the value in the arguments for belief. I no longer trusted that what the Bible said happened, actually happened. I no longer saw any 'proof' that the beliefs were true, either morally or historically or otherwise. I no longer saw it as something valuable for me to follow -- in short, I rejected it when I realized that I thought it was, as you said Ali, bollocks. And no amount of personal testimonies, religious proofs, theological arguments or pleas to 'just open my heart to Jesus' would be able to make me change my mind and believe again suddenly. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't turn back the clock, ignore everything I've carefully considered, and suddenly believe again. It's not in me to do that.
If you want to believe you have to do things to encourage your faith! ;D
1. Go to church every Sunday.
2. Go to a Bible study once a week.
3. Surround yourself with people who believe it is the truth and can encourage you to believe also.
4. Never read anything or listen to anything that would challenge your faith.
5. Read books and listen to audios about why the Bible is true and Christianity is true.
6. Listen to William Lane Craig and other debaters. But, only listen to the debates that they win. If they don't win, it might hurt your faith.
7. If you don't understand something god did in the Bible - ya know, mass murder, shed blood to forgive sins, strange laws - then just say the following Bible verse to yourself over and over and over "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight". Do NOT use your mind! That's just trouble. God's ways are higher than your ways and we cannot possibly understand him.
8. Start praying! Make sure the prayers are ambiguous enough so that you can make-believe that god answered them.
Basically, I could all sum it up in one word- brainwashing.
Quote from: Asherah on April 03, 2012, 03:52:27 AM
If you want to believe you have to do things to encourage your faith! ;D
1. Go to church every Sunday.
2. Go to a Bible study once a week.
3. Surround yourself with people who believe it is the truth and can encourage you to believe also.
4. Never read anything or listen to anything that would challenge your faith.
5. Read books and listen to audios about why the Bible is true and Christianity is true.
6. Listen to William Lane Craig and other debaters. But, only listen to the debates that they win. If they don't win, it might hurt your faith.
7. If you don't understand something god did in the Bible - ya know, mass murder, shed blood to forgive sins, strange laws - then just say the following Bible verse to yourself over and over and over "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight". Do NOT use your mind! That's just trouble. God's ways are higher than your ways and we cannot possibly understand him.
8. Start praying! Make sure the prayers are ambiguous enough so that you can make-believe that god answered them.
Basically, I could all sum it up in one word- brainwashing.
Good guide, Asherah! Let's see, where did I go wrong...
1. Did it. Sometimes 2 or 3 times a week.
2. Ditto. Started asking questions at bible study though, that was a no-no.
3. Did it. Started asking these encouraging folks questions, until they started encouraging me less and less and started suggesting I needed more faith.
4. Whoopsie, failed that one.
5. Did this. Books, podcasts, videos, historical treatises, you name it. Started asking a lot of questions, because the stuff asserted in these never explained itself thoroughly enough, at least to my liking. Guess I was too picky. Something about taking statements at face value bugged me. Shoulda ignored those niggling doubts if I wanted to stay Christian. Whoops again!
6. Did it. Started agreeing more and more with the people debating the Christians, even though at the time I WAS a Christian. Tried hard to ignore this, and tried to defend the Christian arguments as I heard them debated. Found myself asking "but what about..." and "hey, isn't the other guy making more sense". Damned critical thought, it never did leave me be. :P
7. Recited that verse til I was blue in the face, along with other verses and apologetics from Christian thinkers. Started using my mind regardless. Whoops, dropped that ball too.
8. Prayed like crazy. Started feeling like I was talking to a brick wall. Ignored this, because of COURSE faith isn't about emotion or proof, it's about "the truth
TM". Finally got to the point where I realized I WAS talking to empty space; in fact, a brick wall would have at least been more sociable and friendly. Triple whoops and blast it all.
And that's my story on how I didn't have enough 'blinders on the eyes' to stick to it. Sorry, Stevil, guess my own life experiences wouldn't help you stay a Christian, let alone talk yourself into becoming one. :D
Sorry, I also think you're screwed. Wanting to believe just isn't enough a lot of the time.
I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 04:57:38 AM
I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?
Now, that might work. Or drugs.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on April 03, 2012, 04:59:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 04:57:38 AM
I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?
Now, that might work. Or drugs.
Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 05:04:44 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on April 03, 2012, 04:59:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 04:57:38 AM
I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?
Now, that might work. Or drugs.
Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....
If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fengageworship.org%2Fuserfiles%2Fimage%2FPills.jpg&hash=bcaf4c864cae00f2f0b389e8f21f7f7f5b8dcf46)
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 11:24:03 PM
Does this mean that atheists are less likely to play black jack and roulette?
??? You got me there, but then again I really suck at maths.
I would guess that atheists are actually more likely to play black jack and roulette because devout theists spend a good portion of their time praying, in church, in bible studies, and high on those hallelujah pills. Less free time, you see...
Speaking of gambles and wagers, what about Pascal's idea? You go through the motions, performing ritual after ritual until you finally believe - think it could work?
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 03, 2012, 06:17:05 AM
Speaking of gambles and wagers, what about Pascal's idea? You go through the motions, performing ritual after ritual until you finally believe - think it could work?
Surely not, I would think you would need to be young (before critical reasoning kicks in) or either have some underlying spirituality already, or be going through some kind of mental trauma.
There seems to be quite a few ex-theists here but I s'pose they were indoctrinated from an early age.
Quote from: Amicale on April 03, 2012, 06:02:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 05:04:44 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on April 03, 2012, 04:59:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 04:57:38 AM
I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?
Now, that might work. Or drugs.
Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....
If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:
LOL!!! You know, I'd REFUSE to swallow. I'd stick it under my tongue and later slip it in THEIR drink and then write a post about how funny it was to see them acting "all religious." :P
Quote from: Ali on April 02, 2012, 10:34:43 PM
Well, I have long argued that I don't have a choice about believing - you can't force yourself to believe something that you really think is bollocks. At least I can't.
It may be something like sexual orientation. You can't choose to believe, and perhaps I can't choose not to. It's pretty much part of who I am.
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: Amicale on April 03, 2012, 06:02:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 05:04:44 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on April 03, 2012, 04:59:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 04:57:38 AM
I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?
Now, that might work. Or drugs.
Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....
If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:
LOL!!! You know, I'd REFUSE to swallow. I'd stick it under my tongue and later slip it in THEIR drink and then write a post about how funny it was to see them acting "all religious." :P
Religion, really bad food, and someone else's private parts.
Three things that, if forced down your throat against your will, you'll gag on and object to. ;D
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on April 03, 2012, 03:32:19 PM
It may be something like sexual orientation. You can't choose to believe, and perhaps I can't choose not to. It's pretty much part of who I am.
However, people do change with regards to religious belief, people convert between opposing religions and atheists become theists and theists become atheists.
I find it interesting to try and understand how this can happen. For me it would seem impossible. To forgo critical reasoning, to forgo intelligence and simply make a leap of faith arbitrarily towards one religion over another.
With regards to sexual orientation, I don't think people change.
You do hear about married people breaking up and one of them admitting that they are gay, but it seems they were gay all along, only they hid it because society has such a stigma against gays.
Quote from: Stevil on April 03, 2012, 07:41:52 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on April 03, 2012, 03:32:19 PM
It may be something like sexual orientation. You can't choose to believe, and perhaps I can't choose not to. It's pretty much part of who I am.
However, people do change with regards to religious belief, people convert between opposing religions and atheists become theists and theists become atheists.
I find it interesting to try and understand how this can happen. For me it would seem impossible. To forgo critical reasoning, to forgo intelligence and simply make a leap of faith arbitrarily towards one religion over another.
I think it might have something to do with what we feel we need, and whether or not we think the grass is greener on the other side, so to speak. Someone who grew up atheist might not have a community, might have been treated badly, might be struggling with personal issues in their lives -- and so they might feel an emotional void that they're hoping a religion and particularly a religious community might fill. Someone who grew up Christian/theistic might have 'had it up to here' with that particular culture, might no longer feel a need for it, might have been hurt or damaged by their belief system in some ways... so they might want to escape it, and they could very well see atheism as a relief from all of that. And as to why someone would convert back -- ie, a Christian who becomes an atheist and later goes back to Christianity: they miss what they know. Maybe they miss the community, maybe they miss the emotional feelings they had as a believer, maybe they miss feeling like their life has an absolute objective plan.
When it comes down to it, I think an awful lot of conversions have more to do with where you're at emotionally, what you think you need, and whether you see more benefits or more harm in whatever you currently hold to be true. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.
Quote from: Stevil on April 03, 2012, 07:41:52 PM
With regards to sexual orientation, I don't think people change.
You do hear about married people breaking up and one of them admitting that they are gay, but it seems they were gay all along, only they hid it because society has such a stigma against gays.
Some people do change. I've got a sister-in-law who was a man junkie all her life, then switched teams. Maybe she was latently bi, but outwardly, it was all men, then a woman. Maybe it's different for some women as they get older.
Also, converting from one religion to another is not changing one's "spiritual orientation." They are still believers. So, some people are going to be people of faith, while some are not. The "leap of faith" is often as a result of personal experience in that realm. There may be changes over time, of course, but some people seem to be more inclined to faith than others, even among the highly educated and intelligent.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2012, 11:19:56 PM
But Stevil, your standards of proof are way too high...why couldn't you just accept that if you found your keys after looking for them one day while running really late, but arrive at work just in time to be a miracle? You certainly don't make it any easier for yourself.
I knew a woman once who considered the fact that a light rain stopped just before she had to drive home from work proof that god both existed and loved her.
Quote from: Asherah on April 03, 2012, 03:52:27 AM
If you want to believe you have to do things to encourage your faith! ;D
1. Go to church every Sunday.
2. Go to a Bible study once a week.
3. Surround yourself with people who believe it is the truth and can encourage you to believe also.
4. Never read anything or listen to anything that would challenge your faith.
5. Read books and listen to audios about why the Bible is true and Christianity is true.
6. Listen to William Lane Craig and other debaters. But, only listen to the debates that they win. If they don't win, it might hurt your faith.
7. If you don't understand something god did in the Bible - ya know, mass murder, shed blood to forgive sins, strange laws - then just say the following Bible verse to yourself over and over and over "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight". Do NOT use your mind! That's just trouble. God's ways are higher than your ways and we cannot possibly understand him.
8. Start praying! Make sure the prayers are ambiguous enough so that you can make-believe that god answered them.
Basically, I could all sum it up in one word- brainwashing.
Let's see, I did all of those except 6. (still don't know who he is) while trying and failing to be religious. Clearly, that 6. is the game changer.
Quote from: Amicale on April 03, 2012, 06:12:17 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: Amicale on April 03, 2012, 06:02:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 05:04:44 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on April 03, 2012, 04:59:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 04:57:38 AM
I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?
Now, that might work. Or drugs.
Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....
If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:
LOL!!! You know, I'd REFUSE to swallow. I'd stick it under my tongue and later slip it in THEIR drink and then write a post about how funny it was to see them acting "all religious." :P
Religion, really bad food, and someone else's private parts.
Three things that, if forced down your throat against your will, you'll gag on and object to. ;D
I'll just assume ALL three would... Lol.....The first two, been there; the third? I much prefer those non-protruding kind :p
Quote from: Jimmy on April 04, 2012, 04:37:55 AM
Quote from: Amicale on April 03, 2012, 06:12:17 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: Amicale on April 03, 2012, 06:02:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 05:04:44 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on April 03, 2012, 04:59:02 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 03, 2012, 04:57:38 AM
I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?
Now, that might work. Or drugs.
Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....
If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:
LOL!!! You know, I'd REFUSE to swallow. I'd stick it under my tongue and later slip it in THEIR drink and then write a post about how funny it was to see them acting "all religious." :P
Religion, really bad food, and someone else's private parts.
Three things that, if forced down your throat against your will, you'll gag on and object to. ;D
I'll just assume ALL three would... Lol.....The first two, been there; the third? I much prefer those non-protruding kind :p
You and I both, my friend! ;D
;D
I think some people say they're religious because of peer pressure. :(
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 04, 2012, 05:50:37 AM
I think some people say they're religious because of peer pressure. :(
Sure. Or at the very least, they feel as though they can't 'come out' as non-religious because of peer pressure, so they keep their mouth shut and allow religious family members and friends to assume that they're religious, too.
Been there, done that. My grandparents still don't know I'm an atheist. And they never will. I won't do that to them, it's not worth the heartache. They're just not in a place where knowing that or accepting that about me would give them any peace, so I respect that limitation they have, and love them all the same, of course.
Quote from: Amicale on April 04, 2012, 06:02:05 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 04, 2012, 05:50:37 AM
I think some people say they're religious because of peer pressure. :(
Sure. Or at the very least, they feel as though they can't 'come out' as non-religious because of peer pressure, so they keep their mouth shut and allow religious family members and friends to assume that they're religious, too.
Been there, done that. My grandparents still don't know I'm an atheist. And they never will. I won't do that to them, it's not worth the heartache. They're just not in a place where knowing that or accepting that about me would give them any peace, so I respect that limitation they have, and love them all the same, of course.
Yeah,,i get cutting the old people slack, but it's still sad.
:(
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 04, 2012, 06:05:08 AM
Quote from: Amicale on April 04, 2012, 06:02:05 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 04, 2012, 05:50:37 AM
I think some people say they're religious because of peer pressure. :(
Sure. Or at the very least, they feel as though they can't 'come out' as non-religious because of peer pressure, so they keep their mouth shut and allow religious family members and friends to assume that they're religious, too.
Been there, done that. My grandparents still don't know I'm an atheist. And they never will. I won't do that to them, it's not worth the heartache. They're just not in a place where knowing that or accepting that about me would give them any peace, so I respect that limitation they have, and love them all the same, of course.
Yeah,,i get cutting the old people slack, but it's still sad.
:(
Yeah, it is. Then again, I always figure it could be worse. When I told them I was gay (that was one huge part of me that wasn't just an opinion, so I wasn't about to keep it quiet), my grandfather at least didn't challenge me on it, although I knew he was disappointed -- for him, the issue at the time was that he thought I wouldn't have any children. I proved him wrong. :D My grandma, on the other hand, responded to my news with a big hug and a "I love you no matter what, if you bring a girl over for dinner, just make sure she's a nice young lady!"
So, it's good, REALLY good, to know that even if some folks might not be able to accept your beliefs about their religious views, there are other probably even more controversial aspects of you that they CAN accept. :) It's one of the reasons I cut them slack on the religious stuff. I know they love me.
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
Let's say I wanted to be a Christian.
So, now that I am sold on the idea, how do I go about believing it?
Self deception. Or, rather, a willingness to be self deceived and deceived by others. It happens all the time and is quite common.
I forgot. Fear.If you want to take the good, you have to take the bad. And the bad is awful, therefore, fear based.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on April 03, 2012, 09:42:17 PM
Quote from: Stevil on April 03, 2012, 07:41:52 PM
With regards to sexual orientation, I don't think people change.
You do hear about married people breaking up and one of them admitting that they are gay, but it seems they were gay all along, only they hid it because society has such a stigma against gays.
Some people do change. I've got a sister-in-law who was a man junkie all her life, then switched teams. Maybe she was latently bi, but outwardly, it was all men, then a woman. Maybe it's different for some women as they get older.
The change in your sister-in-law's sexual preferences might be a result ofher bio-chemistry has changed as she matured.
I don't know, I'm no doctor. But it would be a biological explenation for her change.
Quote from: Gawen on April 06, 2012, 01:36:28 PM
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
Let's say I wanted to be a Christian.
So, now that I am sold on the idea, how do I go about believing it?
Self deception. Or, rather, a willingness to be self deceived and deceived by others. It happens all the time and is quite common.
I forgot. Fear.If you want to take the good, you have to take the bad. And the bad is awful, therefore, fear based.
It would also help if you were at a very low point in your life and willing to grab onto anything as a 'lifeline." Many adult converts come to christianity during a time of crisis like severe medical problems, major financial stress, loss of a child or significant other, just to name a few.
Quote from: Velma on April 06, 2012, 07:46:54 PM
Quote from: Gawen on April 06, 2012, 01:36:28 PM
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
Let's say I wanted to be a Christian.
So, now that I am sold on the idea, how do I go about believing it?
Self deception. Or, rather, a willingness to be self deceived and deceived by others. It happens all the time and is quite common.
I forgot. Fear.If you want to take the good, you have to take the bad. And the bad is awful, therefore, fear based.
It would also help if you were at a very low point in your life and willing to grab onto anything as a 'lifeline." Many adult converts come to christianity during a time of crisis like severe medical problems, major financial stress, loss of a child or significant other, just to name a few.
Very true!
Quote from: Velma on April 06, 2012, 07:46:54 PM
Quote from: Gawen on April 06, 2012, 01:36:28 PM
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
Let's say I wanted to be a Christian.
So, now that I am sold on the idea, how do I go about believing it?
Self deception. Or, rather, a willingness to be self deceived and deceived by others. It happens all the time and is quite common.
I forgot. Fear.If you want to take the good, you have to take the bad. And the bad is awful, therefore, fear based.
It would also help if you were at a very low point in your life and willing to grab onto anything as a 'lifeline." Many adult converts come to christianity during a time of crisis like severe medical problems, major financial stress, loss of a child or significant other, just to name a few.
Very true for sure.
And sometimes, when you're at a very low point in your life and you're already a Christian/believer, that's when you lose your faith. Go figure. :D
Guess it just depends on the person, on their situation, community, beliefs, etc.