What features would it have? How would you describe it? What would its most important tenets be?
Before anyone says "to start a religion, a god would have to exist in the first place!" consider that as skeptics, we believe that 100% of the religions out there were started by humans who, for better or worse, believed they had interesting ideas that deserved to be spread. So, what are your ideas?
Feel free to borrow bits and pieces from random philosophies that already exist. Standing on the shoulders of giants, and all that.
I'll post mine later, if the thread takes off. :)
Important tenants
- Diversity is interesting
- Exploration is discovery
- Contemplative discussion is learning
- Tolerance is freedom
- Support is unity
- Freedom is desired
- Failure is a step towards success
- Truth is not absolute
- Life is what you make of it
- Concentrate on your life, let others concentrate on theirs
I would best describe it as introspective, empowerment of the self, supportive and inclusive of all who want to be a part of it.
Its features would be that people could express themselves however they want art, music, theatre, sport etc. It would be a place to grow and share with others but there would be no prescription, no organisation defined goals for the individual.
It would be more like a community club than a religion.
Debating, toastmasters, educational presentations, field trips (e.g. skiing, sailing, hiking etc). Just a place to hang and enjoy diversity.
Stevil has it spot on. I will steal his list and add to it, though mine won't be as concise or elegant.
• No worship is necessary, just take a minuet to realise that you are part of nature.
• Moderation is key but also be moderate in excess as well.
• Stop trying to control, let your life happen.
• Forget about people's approval and you won't become their prisoner.
• Embrace what you do not understand and what confuses you. Its impossible to know everything.
• Knowledge is important but your knowledge matters little. Don't try to own what you have learned, share it and don't hold contempt for those that do not know.
• Know yourself, learn to distinguish what is a perception due to cultural influence and what is truly your own opinion.
[Edit] Some more.
• Before acting, think. Is it really necessary to act, if so do, if not don't.
• How important are your worries, assess things rationally and if they aren't truly important let them go and more on.
• Observe the world not just as the subject but the negative space that gives it use, and that they are equally important.
• Question everything.
Lift yourself up by uplifting other people.
You guys are horrible at creating religions.
1. Have some symbol or respect. Make it sacred and instill loyalty to it.
2. Leaders owe their allegiance to the people. To be godlike is to serve others.
3. Followers owe their allegiance to god/symbol, not leaders.
4. Set up temples/synagogue/mosques/centers of worship where followers can socialize.
5. Have leaders preside over important public rituals.
None of this is tied in any way to moral/ethical considerations, as it is understood that social mores will change as time passes, and therefore the moral reccomendations of the church should echo the moral sentiments of the people. Eventually, as morals progress, so will the teachings of religion.
Interesting ideas, people! The parts about serving others, knowing yourself, celebrating diversity, creativity and tolerance, etc resound with me for sure.
If I had to start a religion, I'd incorporate the ideas above for sure, as well as add the following general ideas:
First and foremost, nobody would HAVE to join, and anyone's free to leave, or to stay but disagree. It's not a cult, there's no eternal penalty if you object (ie, some version of hell), it's basically just a way of life and if you like it, c'mon in. If it's time to move on, no problem... and if it doesn't appeal to you at all, okie dokie. Nothing below is forced or enforced officially; the only caveat is that if you join, we'd all assume you agreed with the majority of the ideas, and wanted to contribute to them. If we realized you didn't really care about the things we cared about, we'd maybe talk with you and suggest a different path, but the decision would be yours.
- If you'd like to believe in some sort of higher power, you're welcome to. If you don't want to, you're just as welcome to. The main thing is respect, open dialogue, and learning from one another. If you have a disagreement, go for it, just do it as respectfully as possible and realize that everyone's probably seeking community and understanding in one way or another. Speaking out loud about God/faith etc is fine; just explain yourself thoroughly, and let others question you, so everyone can learn. Ditto for speaking about non-belief.
- A strong focus on compassion and kindness, ie, trying to see things from different perspectives, being there for those who need a friend, lending a hand when one's needed, etc. This one's important to me because it seems to be humanity's wont to think that if we don't take care of others or treat them kindly, someone else will, or God will. Nope. It's on us to reach out and care for others. Even if I respect your belief in God, and you respect my nonbelief, it's still a generally good idea for everyone to pitch in and make the community a good one.
- Being a responsible steward of what/who we each have - our kids, relationships, the environment, our money, etc. Basically encouraging people to make careful, well-thought-out choices in the most important areas of their lives, so that their lives and the lives of those to come will be better off than previous generations were.
- Learning and growth are key. All kinds of different subjects could be explored, including science, philosophy, the human role in past history, etc. If we had organized meetings, anyone there would be free to speak, to discuss, to read a favourite selection. If there were lectures, it wouldn't be one person giving them all the time -- guest speakers of different philosophies would be fine, saying out loud that you didn't understand or disagreed would be fine... but actually engaging in the material and responding to it personally would be important. If there's one thing I strongly dislike, it's apathy -- not being bothered to think, basically.
- FUN! I think a religion should invite humans to celebrate life together, the ups and the downs. Community events, social events, celebrating new lives into the world and saying goodbye to old friends in a sendoff that they'd love -- all those would be strongly encouraged. Laughter, humour, getting to know people. Being silly from time to time, feeling safe to let your hair down. It would help to bond people, give them a group they could call their own. There's nothing I feel less comfortable in than in a group that feels like its their absolute duty to be 100% solemn/academic/rigid at all times.
- Seeing yourself as part of a greater whole. This is probably what would make it something closer to a religion than just a social club -- the need to reflect, see your place in nature, in the world, in your community, and figure out how your talents and ideas can contribute to that. The focus here would be on trying to see the best in others around us, reflecting together on what makes us thankful, what makes us angry or sad, what makes us hopeful -- as well as the best ways we can respond to those feelings and ideas as a community.
I might add more later, but that's the general gist of it. And yes, I'm aware that it smacks horribly of secular humanism, or Unitarian Universalism, or both. But there are probably ideas above that aren't intrinsically a part of either, per se, so... :)
Quote from: The Semaestro on March 26, 2012, 10:21:27 PM
You guys are horrible at creating religions.
1. Have some symbol or respect. Make it sacred and instill loyalty to it.
2. Leaders owe their allegiance to the people. To be godlike is to serve others.
3. Followers owe their allegiance to god/symbol, not leaders.
4. Set up temples/synagogue/mosques/centers of worship where followers can socialize.
5. Have leaders preside over important public rituals.
None of this is tied in any way to moral/ethical considerations, as it is understood that social mores will change as time passes, and therefore the moral reccomendations of the church should echo the moral sentiments of the people. Eventually, as morals progress, so will the teachings of religion.
Ah but you need the conceptual basis to build the advertisement upon, all of the above needs to be relevant to the concept to make it successful and meaningful to attract people in the first place.
Quote from: Crow on March 28, 2012, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: The Semaestro on March 26, 2012, 10:21:27 PM
You guys are horrible at creating religions.
1. Have some symbol or respect. Make it sacred and instill loyalty to it.
2. Leaders owe their allegiance to the people. To be godlike is to serve others.
3. Followers owe their allegiance to god/symbol, not leaders.
4. Set up temples/synagogue/mosques/centers of worship where followers can socialize.
5. Have leaders preside over important public rituals.
None of this is tied in any way to moral/ethical considerations, as it is understood that social mores will change as time passes, and therefore the moral reccomendations of the church should echo the moral sentiments of the people. Eventually, as morals progress, so will the teachings of religion.
Ah but you need the conceptual basis to build the advertisement upon, all of the above needs to be relevant to the concept to make it successful and meaningful to attract people in the first place.
Seems to have jumped straight into marketing and sales before we have defined a product.
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 02:16:35 AM
Quote from: Crow on March 28, 2012, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: The Semaestro on March 26, 2012, 10:21:27 PM
You guys are horrible at creating religions.
1. Have some symbol or respect. Make it sacred and instill loyalty to it.
2. Leaders owe their allegiance to the people. To be godlike is to serve others.
3. Followers owe their allegiance to god/symbol, not leaders.
4. Set up temples/synagogue/mosques/centers of worship where followers can socialize.
5. Have leaders preside over important public rituals.
None of this is tied in any way to moral/ethical considerations, as it is understood that social mores will change as time passes, and therefore the moral reccomendations of the church should echo the moral sentiments of the people. Eventually, as morals progress, so will the teachings of religion.
Ah but you need the conceptual basis to build the advertisement upon, all of the above needs to be relevant to the concept to make it successful and meaningful to attract people in the first place.
Seems to have jumped straight into marketing and sales before we have defined a product.
That is exactly the point. Religion is not about the product, but about selling wacky idea's. That is why marketing is more important than anything else. Crazy people love crazy stuff, so in my religion I'll give them plenty of it. The more the better. it doesn't even matter what kind of craziness there is on offer, because there will always be people who believe in any kind of shit. Morality is not relevant at all, because religion is more about getting filthy rich; attracting loads of young members of the opposite sex, who want to have sex with you; not paying any taxes and having lots of fun ;D.
Yeah, I do think maybe you need all the crazy ideas, myths, supernatural things, rituals, silly outfits etc to be a proper religion. Otherwise all you've got is a philosophy, which is a good thing in my book as an atheist, but maybe it's not quite a religion.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on March 28, 2012, 09:33:32 AM
silly outfits
And these must include silly hats. It's not a religion worth the name without silly hats!
Asmoism.
All must bow facing the general direction of The Asmo and praise Him five times a day.
Ten thousand babies a year must be sacrificed in His honor. Gifts and donations can buy one's baby a get out of sacrifie free card.
Otherwise, do what thou wilst, then pay for it.
all hail the Asmo! Although I'm glad I have no children Asmo food.
If I had to name a few tenets I'd like to see in a religion, I'd agree with Amicale that fun and enjoyment should be paramount. Life should be enjoyed, not seen as some less important prelude to something after death. That's a real problem with Christianity and Islam, neither really embrace life, unlike a lot of the old pagan religions which celebrated with partying, drinking, dancing, music, feasting etc. Christianity has a bad strain of Platonic philosophy in it where the material world and material pleasures (particularly sex) are often seen as something corrupting of the soul.
people should strive to be happy and to try and enjoy their lives to the maximum, though not at anyone else's expense.
don't take themselves (or your religion or other beliefs) too seriously. The Bible and the Qur'an are so boring and serious. Yahweh, Jesus and Allah all seriously lack a sense of humour, they'd be such dull dinner guests. The Bible's a long book, but it seriously lacks humour, I don't think there's an intentionally humourous line in the whole work. Humour's good. Rather than commanding people kill the followers of other gods and destroy their altars and temples, Yahweh should have just said 'Mah, who cares' in the OT. The history of Christianity would most probably have been a whole lot less bloody and intolerant as a result.
Other things would be to teach tolerance to others of different beliefs, skin colour, sexuality etc, there's no absolute truth (already mentioned by Stevil), and don't ever treat any writing as sacred, they're just words written by people.
don't be greedy, if you have plenty and more than you need, give to those less well off.
always be open to new ideas, and be prepared to change and adapt to new environments.
Be socially and environmentally responsible, to create the best society for both yourself and others to live in.
We'll be wanting to control em, at least keep 'em wandering too wrong.
Children gather round, how do we want things to be?
Did he push you over?
You don't like him, I don't think you should.
Some people will push you and expect you to thank them for it.
If you meet one look away, don't engage, they don't care for the now.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 28, 2012, 10:04:10 AM
Asmoism.
All must bow facing the general direction of The Asmo and praise Him five times a day.
Ten thousand babies a year must be sacrificed in His honor. Gifts and donations can buy one's baby a get out of sacrifie free card.
Otherwise, do what thou wilst, then pay for it.
Errmmm. Remember when my husband gave you cookies? Wasn't that nice.
Besides, I don't think you want our son. He looks gamey to me.
FIRST, to borrow from Catholicism, there will be plenty of wine and bread available to ALL members :D Membership is important, we wouldn't want anyone showing up for "just the booze."
SECOND, it would be a mix of artistic expression and scientific understanding. What I mean by this, is that it would be accepted that humans are partly abstract thinkers and that religious expression and artistic expression are a biproduct of this. So meetings and/or social gathering would have to include displaying people's artistic expressions; dancing, playing music, art shows, poetry reading, etc. If it sounds a little hippy-ish, that is because it is!! People just NEED to chill and have fun. It would be a CELEBRATION OF LIFE, so like all major religions, we would celebrate births, unions, and deaths. So although people from all walks of life are welcome, only the more OPEN people will probably be the most appreciative of these kinds of things.
THIRD, being part of nature would be essential, but not required. Hiking retreats, camping, fossil hunting, OH BOY, Now I'm getting too EXCITED!! But absolutely NO WOO!! Humans are just part of a vast ecosystem and understanding our relationship to this system will make us BETTER thinkers and more appreciative of life in general.
FOURTH, it would basically be an outlet for secular humanists, like me, that NEED that kind of outlet and want to reap the social and communal benefits other religions have offered without believing in a silly deity. It would also be for people who love and appreciate the beauty of life and like to LIVE AND LET LIVE. :) I REALLY want to start something like this in my area, even if there are only like 5 people who show up...LOL.
Also, the officers would be democratically elected by its members, and would not have a "minister," but merely allowed anyone to speak.
Quote from: Jimmy on March 28, 2012, 03:38:09 PM
FIRST, to borrow from Catholicism, there will be plenty of wine and bread available to ALL members :D Membership is important, we wouldn't want anyone showing up for "just the booze."
SECOND, it would be a mix of artistic expression and scientific understanding. What I mean by this, is that it would be accepted that humans are partly abstract thinkers and that religious expression and artistic expression are a biproduct of this. So meetings and/or social gathering would have to include displaying people's artistic expressions; dancing, playing music, art shows, poetry reading, etc. If it sounds a little hippy-ish, that is because it is!! People just NEED to chill and have fun. It would be a CELEBRATION OF LIFE, so like all major religions, we would celebrate births, unions, and deaths. So although people from all walks of life are welcome, only the more OPEN people will probably be the most appreciative of these kinds of things.
THIRD, being part of nature would be essential, but not required. Hiking retreats, camping, fossil hunting, OH BOY, Now I'm getting too EXCITED!! But absolutely NO WOO!! Humans are just part of a vast ecosystem and understanding our relationship to this system will make us BETTER thinkers and more appreciative of life in general.
FOURTH, it would basically be an outlet for secular humanists, like me, that NEED that kind of outlet and want to reap the social and communal benefits other religions have offered without believing in a silly deity. It would also be for people who love and appreciate the beauty of life and like to LIVE AND LET LIVE. :) I REALLY want to start something like this in my area, even if there are only like 5 people who show up...LOL.
Also, the officers would be democratically elected by its members, and would not have a "minister," but merely allowed anyone to speak.
Love it! :D Lets combine your religion, and mine, and get this party started! ;)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 02:57:28 PM
Errmmm. Remember when my husband gave you cookies? Wasn't that nice.
Besides, I don't think you want our son. He looks gamey to me.
*Asmo-like expression* Ok.
*whew*
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 04:56:52 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 28, 2012, 03:38:09 PM
FIRST, to borrow from Catholicism, there will be plenty of wine and bread available to ALL members :D Membership is important, we wouldn't want anyone showing up for "just the booze."
SECOND, it would be a mix of artistic expression and scientific understanding. What I mean by this, is that it would be accepted that humans are partly abstract thinkers and that religious expression and artistic expression are a biproduct of this. So meetings and/or social gathering would have to include displaying people's artistic expressions; dancing, playing music, art shows, poetry reading, etc. If it sounds a little hippy-ish, that is because it is!! People just NEED to chill and have fun. It would be a CELEBRATION OF LIFE, so like all major religions, we would celebrate births, unions, and deaths. So although people from all walks of life are welcome, only the more OPEN people will probably be the most appreciative of these kinds of things.
THIRD, being part of nature would be essential, but not required. Hiking retreats, camping, fossil hunting, OH BOY, Now I'm getting too EXCITED!! But absolutely NO WOO!! Humans are just part of a vast ecosystem and understanding our relationship to this system will make us BETTER thinkers and more appreciative of life in general.
FOURTH, it would basically be an outlet for secular humanists, like me, that NEED that kind of outlet and want to reap the social and communal benefits other religions have offered without believing in a silly deity. It would also be for people who love and appreciate the beauty of life and like to LIVE AND LET LIVE. :) I REALLY want to start something like this in my area, even if there are only like 5 people who show up...LOL.
Also, the officers would be democratically elected by its members, and would not have a "minister," but merely allowed anyone to speak.
Love it! :D Lets combine your religion, and mine, and get this party started! ;)
Woohoo!!! o/\o
Quote from: Jimmy on March 28, 2012, 03:38:09 PM
FIRST, to borrow from Catholicism, there will be plenty of wine and bread available to ALL members :D Membership is important, we wouldn't want anyone showing up for "just the booze."
SECOND, it would be a mix of artistic expression and scientific understanding. What I mean by this, is that it would be accepted that humans are partly abstract thinkers and that religious expression and artistic expression are a biproduct of this. So meetings and/or social gathering would have to include displaying people's artistic expressions; dancing, playing music, art shows, poetry reading, etc. If it sounds a little hippy-ish, that is because it is!! People just NEED to chill and have fun. It would be a CELEBRATION OF LIFE, so like all major religions, we would celebrate births, unions, and deaths. So although people from all walks of life are welcome, only the more OPEN people will probably be the most appreciative of these kinds of things.
THIRD, being part of nature would be essential, but not required. Hiking retreats, camping, fossil hunting, OH BOY, Now I'm getting too EXCITED!! But absolutely NO WOO!! Humans are just part of a vast ecosystem and understanding our relationship to this system will make us BETTER thinkers and more appreciative of life in general.
FOURTH, it would basically be an outlet for secular humanists, like me, that NEED that kind of outlet and want to reap the social and communal benefits other religions have offered without believing in a silly deity. It would also be for people who love and appreciate the beauty of life and like to LIVE AND LET LIVE. :) I REALLY want to start something like this in my area, even if there are only like 5 people who show up...LOL.
Also, the officers would be democratically elected by its members, and would not have a "minister," but merely allowed anyone to speak.
You had me at "plenty of wine and bread." Booze and carbs, two of my favorite things!
*Glugging wine and munching on bread*
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 03:36:49 PM
You had me at "plenty of wine and bread." Booze and carbs, two of my favorite things!
*Glugging wine and munching on bread*
Careful Ali, the Catholics are HUGE fans of wine and bread. Don't let them lure you. Stick with Jimmy! :D
Edit: come to think of it, I bet a LOT of their converts do it because they go "wine and bread? Sold!" :P
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 03:36:49 PM
You had me at "plenty of wine and bread." Booze and carbs, two of my favorite things!
*Glugging wine and munching on bread*
Careful Ali, the Catholics are HUGE fans of wine and bread. Don't let them lure you. Stick with Jimmy! :D
Edit: come to think of it, I bet a LOT of their converts do it because they go "wine and bread? Sold!" :P
I wasn't raised Catholic, but my parents' church does do communion. That was always my favorite part of church when I was a kid. A shot of grape juice and a bit of cracker. Snack time!
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Edit: come to think of it, I bet a LOT of their converts do it because they go "wine and bread? Sold, and you can keep the bread!" :P
FYP
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 04:10:58 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 03:36:49 PM
You had me at "plenty of wine and bread." Booze and carbs, two of my favorite things!
*Glugging wine and munching on bread*
Careful Ali, the Catholics are HUGE fans of wine and bread. Don't let them lure you. Stick with Jimmy! :D
Edit: come to think of it, I bet a LOT of their converts do it because they go "wine and bread? Sold!" :P
I wasn't raised Catholic, but my parents' church does do communion. That was always my favorite part of church when I was a kid. A shot of grape juice and a bit of cracker. Snack time!
You see, the Protestants at least have that in their favour. According to what each believe...
When giving out the bread and wine in a Protestant church, it STAYS bread and wine and they believe it's snack time in memory of Jesus. Yay!
When giving out the bread and wine in a Catholic church, it turns into ACTUAL flesh and blood and they believe they're supposed to eat and drink it so that they're literally digesting their savior. Yikes!
Even when I WAS Catholic, I probably excommunicated myself because I NEVER believed that anything turned into anything else. If it looked like bread and wine, I didn't think it magically turned into something else while only retaining the 'accidental appearance' of what it really was. :P
Man. All this talk about wine, and I want some. And it's not even 11:30 am. This is bad. :D
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 04:14:12 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Edit: come to think of it, I bet a LOT of their converts do it because they go "wine and bread? Sold, and you can keep the bread!" :P
FYP
FYP?
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 04:16:58 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 04:14:12 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Edit: come to think of it, I bet a LOT of their converts do it because they go "wine and bread? Sold, and you can keep the bread!" :P
FYP
FYP?
I came up with "Feed your people" and "Feel your penis." We'll let Asmo clarify which one he means.
Gross about believing you are actually eating your savior! Who thought
that was a good idea?
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 04:22:51 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 04:16:58 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 04:14:12 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Edit: come to think of it, I bet a LOT of their converts do it because they go "wine and bread? Sold, and you can keep the bread!" :P
FYP
FYP?
I came up with "Feed your people" and "Feel your penis." We'll let Asmo clarify which one he means.
Gross about believing you are actually eating your savior! Who thought that was a good idea?
Repaired Thine Comment, rephrased. :P
I dunno, those communion wafers always tasted pretty gross to me. As soon as they get in your mouth they disintegrate and turn all gluey. Yuck. :P
Maybe some garlic breadsticks? Or a soft pretzel? Then we're talking.
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 04:16:26 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 04:10:58 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 03:36:49 PM
You had me at "plenty of wine and bread." Booze and carbs, two of my favorite things!
*Glugging wine and munching on bread*
Careful Ali, the Catholics are HUGE fans of wine and bread. Don't let them lure you. Stick with Jimmy! :D
Edit: come to think of it, I bet a LOT of their converts do it because they go "wine and bread? Sold!" :P
I wasn't raised Catholic, but my parents' church does do communion. That was always my favorite part of church when I was a kid. A shot of grape juice and a bit of cracker. Snack time!
You see, the Protestants at least have that in their favour. According to what each believe...
When giving out the bread and wine in a Protestant church, it STAYS bread and wine and they believe it's snack time in memory of Jesus. Yay!
When giving out the bread and wine in a Catholic church, it turns into ACTUAL flesh and blood and they believe they're supposed to eat and drink it so that they're literally digesting their savior. Yikes!
Even when I WAS Catholic, I probably excommunicated myself because I NEVER believed that anything turned into anything else. If it looked like bread and wine, I didn't think it magically turned into something else while only retaining the 'accidental appearance' of what it really was. :P
Man. All this talk about wine, and I want some. And it's not even 11:30 am. This is bad. :D
You had me at "plenty of wine and bread." Booze and carbs, two of my favorite things!
*Glugging wine and munching on bread*
See how easy it is to get new members with bread and wine!! Amicale, I do believe that makes three!! There is a wine for such an occasion....... :P
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft3.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSbZtnuwAUh0w8qq0cL8rG-m2VjukO9H4cIt_hcuSGcq4G9ktfG2g&hash=ee7d55b131f625ebe019ea7de2f5f38594b6c69d)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:11:07 PM
I dunno, those communion wafers always tasted pretty gross to me. As soon as they get in your mouth they disintegrate and turn all gluey. Yuck. :P
Maybe some garlic breadsticks? Or a soft pretzel? Then we're talking.
LOL....they are pretty gross. The eastern orthodox churches use leaven bread I believe. I'm not sure why they get the tasty treats!!
If you switch to pretzels, you'll have to substitute beer for the wine, it just wouldn't work any other way :D
Quote from: Jimmy on March 29, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:11:07 PM
I dunno, those communion wafers always tasted pretty gross to me. As soon as they get in your mouth they disintegrate and turn all gluey. Yuck. :P
Maybe some garlic breadsticks? Or a soft pretzel? Then we're talking.
LOL....they are pretty gross. The eastern orthodox churches use leaven bread I believe. I'm not sure why they get the tasty treats!!
If you switch to pretzels, you'll have to substitute beer for the wine, it just wouldn't work any other way :D
I am agreeable to this arrangement.
Quote from: Jimmy on March 29, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:11:07 PM
I dunno, those communion wafers always tasted pretty gross to me. As soon as they get in your mouth they disintegrate and turn all gluey. Yuck. :P
Maybe some garlic breadsticks? Or a soft pretzel? Then we're talking.
LOL....they are pretty gross. The eastern orthodox churches use leaven bread I believe. I'm not sure why they get the tasty treats!!
If you switch to pretzels, you'll have to substitute beer for the wine, it just wouldn't work any other way :D
ROFL @ the Menage a trois wine! As for the pretzels, I'm down with that. If we HAVE to switch the wine to beer (sigh) please pass me either a honey lager or Rickard's Red. :D
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 29, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:11:07 PM
I dunno, those communion wafers always tasted pretty gross to me. As soon as they get in your mouth they disintegrate and turn all gluey. Yuck. :P
Maybe some garlic breadsticks? Or a soft pretzel? Then we're talking.
LOL....they are pretty gross. The eastern orthodox churches use leaven bread I believe. I'm not sure why they get the tasty treats!!
If you switch to pretzels, you'll have to substitute beer for the wine, it just wouldn't work any other way :D
I am agreeable to this arrangement.
YAY!!
I love your wine drinking, yoga master! That is mascot material :)
Quote from: Jimmy on March 30, 2012, 04:30:54 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 29, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:11:07 PM
I dunno, those communion wafers always tasted pretty gross to me. As soon as they get in your mouth they disintegrate and turn all gluey. Yuck. :P
Maybe some garlic breadsticks? Or a soft pretzel? Then we're talking.
LOL....they are pretty gross. The eastern orthodox churches use leaven bread I believe. I'm not sure why they get the tasty treats!!
If you switch to pretzels, you'll have to substitute beer for the wine, it just wouldn't work any other way :D
I am agreeable to this arrangement.
YAY!!
I love your wine drinking, yoga master! That is mascot material :)
Ohhh, you see he is practicing a very sacred rite for our new religion. It's the.. uh.. bendy-drinky-fall down rite.
Very sacred. Very holy.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:16:21 AM
Ohhh, you see he is practicing a very sacred rite for our new religion. It's the.. uh.. bendy-drinky-fall down rite.
Very sacred. Very holy.
Yes.
It's called "One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, FLOOR".
For those historians of 2,138 this is the image being discussed ;D
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi175.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw125%2FDeterminedJuliet%2F2814148FS3BfoG0.gif&hash=41401d0d9e39658ed81351084cac7084f53fc7a6)
Quote from: Tank on March 30, 2012, 06:43:40 AM
For those historians of 2,138 this is the image being discussed ;D
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi175.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw125%2FDeterminedJuliet%2F2814148FS3BfoG0.gif&hash=41401d0d9e39658ed81351084cac7084f53fc7a6)
It's oddly hypnotic. I keep watching it. I've even shared it with 2 other friends who liked it. I think it's got some kind of hold on me... :o :D
That's how we get you into our religion! He's subtly brain-washing you :o
To such an effect that I'm willing to donate 10% of my income and perhaps more offerings just to see him do even more amazing tricks. Hey, wait a minute!.. This is eerily like a religion!! He offers to lead you to a state of perpetual bliss, but leaves you waiting, wanting, and begging for more, but will just never be able to deliver. Oh well, But he will.....maybe it'll happen.....just....may...be......(watching with anticipation).....
*begins passing around collection plate* ;D
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:31:22 PM
*begins passing around collection plate* ;D
Drops washer on plate.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:16:21 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 30, 2012, 04:30:54 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 29, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 05:11:07 PM
I dunno, those communion wafers always tasted pretty gross to me. As soon as they get in your mouth they disintegrate and turn all gluey. Yuck. :P
Maybe some garlic breadsticks? Or a soft pretzel? Then we're talking.
LOL....they are pretty gross. The eastern orthodox churches use leaven bread I believe. I'm not sure why they get the tasty treats!!
If you switch to pretzels, you'll have to substitute beer for the wine, it just wouldn't work any other way :D
I am agreeable to this arrangement.
YAY!!
I love your wine drinking, yoga master! That is mascot material :)
Ohhh, you see he is practicing a very sacred rite for our new religion. It's the.. uh.. bendy-drinky-fall down rite.
Very sacred. Very holy.
I just became a new member of your religion. Please enlighten me how to do the bendy-drinky-fall down rite. It will definitely lead me to the state of egolessness and nirvana!
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:31:22 PM
*begins passing around collection plate* ;D
I think this sign ought to be in the parking lot of our meeting area. Just to scare people. ;D
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/542698_370606602980132_346614042046055_1104313_1445434534_n.jpg)
Quote from: Amicale on March 30, 2012, 08:43:18 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:31:22 PM
*begins passing around collection plate* ;D
I think this sign ought to be in the parking lot of our meeting area. Just to scare people. ;D
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/542698_370606602980132_346614042046055_1104313_1445434534_n.jpg)
Hahaha, I don't know. Newfoundlanders aren't very good at keeping out strangers - most of us would start haulin' people in for a "drink, scoff and a scuff" ;)
Actually, that might work towards recruitment. Hmmm.
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 28, 2012, 03:38:09 PM
FIRST, to borrow from Catholicism, there will be plenty of wine and bread available to ALL members :D
As long as its top quality wine, fresh bread (none of that wafer crap) and also include cheese with a wide variety of tapas and I will be sold.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:31:22 PM
*begins passing around collection plate* ;D
Oh wait (waking from trance-like state) I'm only here for the booze.
Quote from: Crow on March 30, 2012, 10:55:34 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 28, 2012, 03:38:09 PM
FIRST, to borrow from Catholicism, there will be plenty of wine and bread available to ALL members :D
As long as its top quality wine, fresh bread (none of that wafer crap) and also include cheese with a wide variety of tapas and I will be sold.
Done deal!! Besides I can bake awesome fresh bread, which not even Jesus could do! Seriously though; buttermilk, Italian, sugar-loaf, and honey-wheat.
While there are theists mucking about in all of the major religions, some are decidedly non-theistic in doctrine/philosophy. Taoism, for example, also has a "Philosophical Taoism" to aid in keeping the gods at bay, and wisdom at central focus. Its two founders (Lao & Chuang) never mention gods or worship. Neither, for that matter, does Buddhist philosophy at large concern itself with theistic concepts.
The exoteric teachings of the "enlightenment religions" is focused upon individual enlightenment, or 'awakening' (i.e. "buddha"). Not pleasing gods. Hinduism is a sort of 'United Nations of beliefs,' with some Hindu schools even declaring themselves to be both "good Hindus," and "atheists." The largest Hindu philosophic school ('Advaitism' - 'Non-dualism'), as the name indicates, denies all dualistic concepts (e.g.gods-mortals, creators-created, good-evil) as unreal illusions.
Even lurking within the "theistic faiths," such as Islam and Xianity, are the Sufis and Xian mystics who find a plethora of non-theistic wisdom within the Quran and Bible.
"Christians who follow and obey the incarnate Logos Itself, and who denounce the false gods, are termed 'atheists'." (St. Justin Martyr)
Many atheists (mis)take 'atheism' to both deny theos and also assert empiricism, or worse: naive materialism; when all it does is the former, leaving the atheist plenty of room for all sorts of additional 'isms.' Atheists have been busy creating non-materialistic philosophies and religions for millennia.
Keep up the good work.
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 02:18:23 AM
While there are theists mucking about in all of the major religions, some are decidedly non-theistic in doctrine/philosophy. Taoism, for example, also has a "Philosophical Taoism" to aid in keeping the gods at bay, and wisdom at central focus. Its two founders (Lao & Chuang) never mention gods or worship. Neither, for that matter, does Buddhist philosophy at large concern itself with theistic concepts.
The exoteric teachings of the "enlightenment religions" is focused upon individual enlightenment, or 'awakening' (i.e. "buddha"). Not pleasing gods. Hinduism is a sort of 'United Nations of beliefs,' with some Hindu schools even declaring themselves to be both "good Hindus," and "atheists." The largest Hindu philosophic school ('Advaitism' - 'Non-dualism'), as the name indicates, denies all dualistic concepts (e.g.gods-mortals, creators-created, good-evil) as unreal illusions.
Even lurking within the "theistic faiths," such as Islam and Xianity, are the Sufis and Xian mystics who find a plethora of non-theistic wisdom within the Quran and Bible.
"Christians who follow and obey the incarnate Logos Itself, and who denounce the false gods, are termed 'atheists'." (St. Justin Martyr)
Many atheists (mis)take 'atheism' to both deny theos and also assert empiricism, or worse: naive materialism; when all it does is the former, leaving the atheist plenty of room for all sorts of additional 'isms.' Atheists have been busy creating non-materialistic philosophies and religions for millennia.
Keep up the good work.
:)
I have a certain fondness for and interest in both Taoism and Buddhism, and some of the ideas in them. I'm certainly not wedded to those ideas, but I find them interesting and I read the odd bit of literature from both belief systems every now and again, especially Buddhism. I like its stance on compassion, especially. If I were to start my own religion, I'd certainly incorporate the odd idea from Taoism or Buddhism. :)
Quote from: Amicale on March 31, 2012, 02:35:59 AM
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 02:18:23 AM
While there are theists mucking about in all of the major religions, some are decidedly non-theistic in doctrine/philosophy. Taoism, for example, also has a "Philosophical Taoism" to aid in keeping the gods at bay, and wisdom at central focus. Its two founders (Lao & Chuang) never mention gods or worship. Neither, for that matter, does Buddhist philosophy at large concern itself with theistic concepts.
The exoteric teachings of the "enlightenment religions" is focused upon individual enlightenment, or 'awakening' (i.e. "buddha"). Not pleasing gods. Hinduism is a sort of 'United Nations of beliefs,' with some Hindu schools even declaring themselves to be both "good Hindus," and "atheists." The largest Hindu philosophic school ('Advaitism' - 'Non-dualism'), as the name indicates, denies all dualistic concepts (e.g.gods-mortals, creators-created, good-evil) as unreal illusions.
Even lurking within the "theistic faiths," such as Islam and Xianity, are the Sufis and Xian mystics who find a plethora of non-theistic wisdom within the Quran and Bible.
"Christians who follow and obey the incarnate Logos Itself, and who denounce the false gods, are termed 'atheists'." (St. Justin Martyr)
Many atheists (mis)take 'atheism' to both deny theos and also assert empiricism, or worse: naive materialism; when all it does is the former, leaving the atheist plenty of room for all sorts of additional 'isms.' Atheists have been busy creating non-materialistic philosophies and religions for millennia.
Keep up the good work.
:)
I have a certain fondness for and interest in both Taoism and Buddhism, and some of the ideas in them. I'm certainly not wedded to those ideas, but I find them interesting and I read the odd bit of literature from both belief systems every now and again, especially Buddhism. I like its stance on compassion, especially. If I were to start my own religion, I'd certainly incorporate the odd idea from Taoism or Buddhism. :)
I sort of have "thing" for Shintoism, which is kind of similar. Although I don't practice, I like incorporating some of its philosophy into my life....just for fun:)
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 02:18:23 AM
While there are theists mucking about in all of the major religions...
Indeed even the religious form of Taoism is godless its only really when Taoism comes into contact with the old Chinese folk religions when the gods arise. Personally I am a huge fan of Taoism and specifically the Tao Te Ching (except a few bad translations) but mainly because its so close to my own philosophical perception.
Quote from: Crow on March 31, 2012, 03:02:29 PM
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 02:18:23 AM
While there are theists mucking about in all of the major religions...
Indeed even the religious form of Taoism is godless its only really when Taoism comes into contact with the old Chinese folk religions when the gods arise. Personally I am a huge fan of Taoism and specifically the Tao Te Ching (except a few bad translations) but mainly because its so close to my own philosophical perception.
Agreed.
Have you guys read "The Tao of Pooh?" It's a pretty simplistic rendition of Taoism, but it's a cute little read.
A thing I don't like about christianity is children are taught we do these things this way because god says.
We shouldn't desire but we do, we should love but we holy war, love is the way yet we're so petty and hateful.
I want something that doesn't require assiduous tending by hypocrites.
I'd like something human based, how would you like to be treated?
That sounds fair, so don't you think it would be right to treat others so?
Many have guilt assigned to them and they accept it.
Cultivate is a word, I like the first definition: foster the growth of.
So much better than the retardation that's been on offer for so long.
Quote from: Amicale on March 31, 2012, 02:35:59 AM
I have a certain fondness for and interest in both Taoism and Buddhism, and some of the ideas in them. I'm certainly not wedded to those ideas, but I find them interesting and I read the odd bit of literature from both belief systems every now and again, especially Buddhism. I like its stance on compassion, especially. If I were to start my own religion, I'd certainly incorporate the odd idea from Taoism or Buddhism. :)
While reading some of the earlier posts in this thread, it struck me how many ideas were already present in eastern religions, esp. Taoism.
Quote from: Jimmy on March 31, 2012, 04:01:59 AM
I sort of have "thing" for Shintoism, which is kind of similar. Although I don't practice, I like incorporating some of its philosophy into my life....just for fun:)
Isn't Shinto chock full of nature spirits busy demanding propitiation lest we offend? I've often heard some misfortunate occurance's blame being place on an "evil Kami's" influence. I'm curious how an "atheist" (such as yourself) would get around this excess of deistic meddling?
Quote from: Crow on March 31, 2012, 03:02:29 PM
Indeed even the religious form of Taoism is godless its only really when Taoism comes into contact with the old Chinese folk religions when the gods arise. Personally I am a huge fan of Taoism and specifically the Tao Te Ching (except a few bad translations) but mainly because its so close to my own philosophical perception.
Yes, the 'Tao Teh Ching' accommodates itself to any and all possible interpretations/translations one may care to make of it. One must be very careful in their selection. I've five copies that appear as though they were five entirely different books. Chuang tse (see: 'Genius of the Absurd') is much more consistently translated.
"Close to your own philosophical perception," (or 'taste') is really what it all comes down to in philosophic/religious advocacy. None of us are "wrong," or "right," any more than someone's preference for a type of pie is "right or best," in any absolute sense. Where do our tastes come from? Nature-nurture, I suppose. :-\
Have a Zen quote:
Don't be overjoyed at the right.
Don't be distressed over the wrong.
For the ancient Masters, things are like flowers and blossoms;
Peach blossoms are red, plum blossoms are white, and roses are
pink.
Though I ask the spring breeze why they are so, it knows nothing.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 31, 2012, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: Crow on March 31, 2012, 03:02:29 PM
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 02:18:23 AM
While there are theists mucking about in all of the major religions...
Indeed even the religious form of Taoism is godless its only really when Taoism comes into contact with the old Chinese folk religions when the gods arise. Personally I am a huge fan of Taoism and specifically the Tao Te Ching (except a few bad translations) but mainly because its so close to my own philosophical perception.
Agreed.
Have you guys read "The Tao of Pooh?" It's a pretty simplistic rendition of Taoism, but it's a cute little read.
Yes, I have! In my first year of being an undergrad, a guy was sitting next to me in a lecture hall reading that before class. I asked him about it, and he told me about the book as well as that he was a Taoist. As I'd never met someone who had ever converted to Taoism, I was interested. So we chatted for a bit. I told him I'd get the book out of the library, and I did. He also told me there was another one with Piglet, but I never got around to that one somehow.... hmm...
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 31, 2012, 04:04:53 PM
Have you guys read "The Tao of Pooh?" It's a pretty simplistic rendition of Taoism, but it's a cute little read.
Yes, I liked it very much. "Simplistic" is itself very Taoist; I'm sure Lao would heartily approve.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 31, 2012, 04:15:09 PM
A thing I don't like about christianity is children are taught we do these things this way because god says.
We shouldn't desire but we do, we should love but we holy war, love is the way yet we're so petty and hateful.
"Love" has meaning only in its opposition to "hate." Just as every "up" is necessarily accompanied by a "down"; otherwise we'd need 'up-ladders'' to get up & 'down-ladders' to get back down. This is a truth at the heart of (non-dual) Taoism, i.e. that all sticks come with two ends, and saw off as much of the "bad end" as you may (i.e. a "dualist"), you will never have an end to opposing ends. So long as you embrace "love," you will engender it opposite.
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 04:57:14 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 31, 2012, 04:04:53 PM
Have you guys read "The Tao of Pooh?" It's a pretty simplistic rendition of Taoism, but it's a cute little read.
Yes, I liked it very much. "Simplistic" is itself very Taoist; I'm sure Lao would heartily approve.
This is true. :)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 31, 2012, 04:04:53 PM
Have you guys read "The Tao of Pooh?" It's a pretty simplistic rendition of Taoism, but it's a cute little read.
I hadn't but I have just bought it. Thanks DJ.
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 04:57:14 PM
"Love" has meaning only in its opposition to "hate." Just as every "up" is necessarily accompanied by a "down"; otherwise we'd need 'up-ladders'' to get up & 'down-ladders' to get back down. This is a truth at the heart of (non-dual) Taoism, i.e. that all sticks come with two ends, and saw off as much of the "bad end" as you may (i.e. a "dualist"), you will never have an end to opposing ends. So long as you embrace "love," you will engender it opposite.
Mumbo jumbo jumbo, jumbo jumbo.
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 04:36:51 PM
Isn't Shinto chock full of nature spirits busy demanding propitiation lest we offend? I've often heard some misfortunate occurance's blame being place on an "evil Kami's" influence. I'm curious how an "atheist" (such as yourself) would get around this excess of deistic meddling?
Well, I'm NOT a Shintoist, and believe that such meddling is, of course, ridiculous; it's more about respect for the natural world, inner peace, balance, which is not copyright protected by deists :P Don't get me wrong, I like different aspects of many different religion, but for me its an
experience thing. In fact I even recently went to Ash Wednesday(It was really awkward at first) at a Catholic church because I've never done that before, but it was also an interesting experience: "Remember thou art dust, and to dust you shall return!" as burnt palms were signed across my forehead translated to me as "Life is short, so get a move on!" I actually thought it was kind of cool!But is was also really weird listening to the priest because most of the people there probably believed in every word he said: YIKES!Needless to say I won't be doing that again. I like all sorts of these kinds of things and like Buddhist philosophies and enjoy reading about different mythologies. I only have one life and want to experience the human palette as much as I can.
Quote from: Jimmy on March 31, 2012, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 04:36:51 PM
Isn't Shinto chock full of nature spirits busy demanding propitiation lest we offend? I've often heard some misfortunate occurance's blame being place on an "evil Kami's" influence. I'm curious how an "atheist" (such as yourself) would get around this excess of deistic meddling?
Well, I'm NOT a Shintoist, and believe that such meddling is, of course, ridiculous; it's more about respect for the natural world, inner peace, balance, which is not copyright protected by deists :P Don't get me wrong, I like different aspects of many different religion, but for me its an experience thing. In fact I even recently went to Ash Wednesday(It was really awkward at first) at a Catholic church because I've never done that before, but it was also an interesting experience: "Remember thou art dust, and to dust you shall return!" as burnt palms were signed across my forehead translated to me as "Life is short, so get a move on!" I actually thought it was kind of cool!But is was also really weird listening to the priest because most of the people there probably believed in every word he said: YIKES!Needless to say I won't be doing that again. I like all sorts of these kinds of things and like Buddhist philosophies and enjoy reading about different mythologies. I only have one life and want to experience the human palette as much as I can.
I totally understand where you're coming from. I've been to Jewish temples and Muslim mosques, as well as a Buddhist meeting center and different sorts of Christian churches. I've had some really neat experiences. Just seeing what goes on there, what ideas and practices people have, that's pretty cool to me, most of the time. My favourite was actually the Jewish temple, because from what I could tell, the Rabbi there was more or less at least agnostic if not atheist. He didn't mention God in his sermon. He talked about doing good in the world and embracing life because this life was all we had. It was great. The mosque was cool, too -- I went this last summer because I was teaching Muslim students and I just wanted to see what it was like. The folks there were nice, and after the service they put on an AMAZING lunch with middle eastern food! Delicious!
The only time I've been really frightened was years ago, maybe 10 years back, when my dad went through a bout of Pentecostalism and dragged me to church with him -- people were wailing, beating tamborines, rolling in the aisles, muttering and chanting in random gobbledegook "languages", laughing hysterically without stopping, sobbing uncontrollably -- all because there was an "altar call" and they believed they'd been 'slain by the holy spirit'. I was terrified. I stood there, eyes wide, and told my dad "I'm leaving" and got the hell out of there and went outside to sit on the steps until the service was over. I think that moment marked the first time in my life when I realized that actually buying INTO and fully BELIEVING everything a religious leader said could be scary and dangerous. Having the experience itself just to have it was one thing, but I never, ever went back again.
I had a similar experience. My uncle made my sister and I go to his Baptist church when I was a teenager, and it was REALLY creepy to me. By then I already had earth science and understood that they were just WRONG on evolution and the age of the Earth, poor kids:( I ended up getting into a debate with my uncle afterwards and won!! Victorious!!
I don't know what it is about the Eastern religions that I like so much; it's probably from watching too many movies!!! They just don't come across as preachy and there is nothing more I dislike than that(unless its preaching about science). So I don't mind contemplating the philosophy of their beliefs; the supernatural, not so much.....
Quote from: Jimmy on March 31, 2012, 09:45:38 PMI don't know what it is about the Eastern religions that I like so much; it's probably from watching too many movies!!! They just don't come across as preachy and there is nothing more I dislike than that(unless its preaching about science). So I don't mind contemplating the philosophy of their beliefs; the supernatural, not so much.....
For my part I think part of the appeal is the idea of "inner balance" and focus on ones personal growth. In most western religions the influence is always external, which is to say that someone else comes to drag you from mental state A to enlightenment B ("divine revelation from god"), or something along those lines. The eastern religions also seem more subtle to and elegant to me. A quick comparison that I would think of is comparing a person playing a simple flute (eastern religions) to someone driving a tank with the biggest, loudest loudspeakers playing a noisy tune (any tv-evangelist you might think of...).
But that's just me ;D Personally I blame the extensive amount of manga that I have read over the years that incorporate some elements of those philosophies. Still, I rather enjoy them, though there are also movies like the Red Cliff that are equally intriguing in giving contrast to western thinking. And I can't help but chuckle again at how arrogant our western culture seems when you take into account that all other civilizations other then "ours" (the ones with greco-roman connections) have been seen as "barbaric". And then you watch a scene where the general and the military adviser, whose trying to convince the general to fight against a common enemy, have an exchange through...music. Not a debate, nor argumentation, but playing of instruments. And I can't help but wonder how many of us "westerners" would have missed the point of that scene if they didn't point it out later....
Quote from: Jimmy on March 31, 2012, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 04:36:51 PM
Isn't Shinto chock full of nature spirits busy demanding propitiation lest we offend? I've often heard some misfortunate occurance's blame being place on an "evil Kami's" influence. I'm curious how an "atheist" (such as yourself) would get around this excess of deistic meddling?
Well, I'm NOT a Shintoist, and believe that such meddling is, of course, ridiculous; it's more about respect for the natural world, inner peace, balance, which is not copyright protected by deists :P Don't get me wrong, I like different aspects of many different religion, but for me its an experience thing. ... I like all sorts of these kinds of things and like Buddhist philosophies and enjoy reading about different mythologies. I only have one life and want to experience the human palette as much as I can.
Well put! I'm with you all the way, and have spent a lifetime studying the world's major religions. Though, for me it has been more of an academic approach, rather than "experiential."
Being a "seeker" for answers to the eternal questions (e.g. who am I? why am I here? is there an absolute anything?, etc.) is what liberates the thinking person from the shackles of childish palliatives (like "Jesus loves me, so why ask hard questions"), as well as from the ignorance of ignoring the questions altogether because "science", or so-called "common sense," pretends to have already settled all such issues.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 31, 2012, 06:20:22 PM
Quote from: Non Sum on March 31, 2012, 04:57:14 PM
"Love" has meaning only in its opposition to "hate." Just as every "up" is necessarily accompanied by a "down"; otherwise we'd need 'up-ladders'' to get up & 'down-ladders' to get back down. This is a truth at the heart of (non-dual) Taoism, i.e. that all sticks come with two ends, and saw off as much of the "bad end" as you may (i.e. a "dualist"), you will never have an end to opposing ends. So long as you embrace "love," you will engender it opposite.
Mumbo jumbo jumbo, jumbo jumbo.
A little confused by this TMP. Would you elaborate please ;D
YES!!! My secret plan to convert the membership of HAF to the holy roman empire has WORKED!!!!
There's nothing wrong with wishful thinking... ;D
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 04, 2012, 07:33:10 AM
YES!!! My secret plan to convert the membership of HAF to the holy roman empire has WORKED!!!!
Wait, you want to turn us German..? ???
Quote from: Asmodean on April 04, 2012, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 04, 2012, 07:33:10 AM
YES!!! My secret plan to convert the membership of HAF to the holy roman empire has WORKED!!!!
Wait, you want to turn us German..? ???
Ich ben ein auslander! *Rocks out with giant guitar*