Hi there folks!
First let me say this: I've read about the rule not to post serious discussions here. I also get the 10 post rule, as a method against trolling and such. But please consider this: I need some information right now, as I'm writing an essay on this.
And wouldn't it be counter productive to your rule, if I just postet 10 senseless bits of gibberish?
So, please excuse and don't move my topic if possible.
Now I'm writing about the idea of happiness in atheism, and still need some material. So I was wondering if you guys could give me some book recommendations.
What I'm looking for is some statistical data and surveys concerning happiness as well as out-group ideas of happiness that concern atheism (For example "such and such percentage of Americans believe that a supernatural God is essencial in achieving happiness" etc.)
Also I'm looking for books that deal with this subjects in detail.
What I already have are some of the classics, such as "God delusion" "Portable Atheist" "Letter to a christian nation". But while those are useful, none of them deals with happiness in detail.
Thanks in advance for your help!
I don't have any book recommends, although I'm sure that you could google some studies on the issue (assuming you are allowed to cite websites in your essay - I know some classes ask that you don't, which is silly IMO.)
Other than that, I'm sure plenty of us could provide anecdotal evidence and stories if you chose to include personal interviews in your story. Personally, I think that I'm much happier as an atheist than I would be as a theist. I'd be happy to tell you more if that would be of interest/help to you.
HI!
Thanks for your quick answer.
I can cite websites. But not just any websites. They need to bee somewhat reliable. For example: I could cite the website of Minnesota University saying: "American's increasing acceptance of religious diversity doesn't extend to those who don't believe in a god, according to a national survey by researchers in the University of Minnesota's department of sociology." because it's a reliable source that points directly to the study itself. I could however not just cite any webcite that just claims to know statistics without ever pointing to reliable sources.
Personal anecdotes are another story. I can't include those, except for maybe if i could find a source that already has tose anecdotes in them and is generally deemed reliable. I might for example use an anecdote by quoting one from Dawknis' "God delusion"
If you have access to a database like JSTOR, you might have some luck searching for academic articles in the field of psychology. There may be some studies on happiness and beliefs.
I don't know of any books that deal with that issue though.
This wikipedia article may give you some leads: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_happiness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_happiness)
Hi IDP
I'd noticed you hovering around ;D
Welcome to HAF
Chris
Sorry, but I think you are approaching this ass-first.
The first question is: Are happy atheists happy because they are atheists? Could it be that some are happy because they have an ok job, a good family and a whole mess of things to look forward to, with their world view being a by-stander to the whole thing?
In every life philosophy I know of, you can find happy and miserable people. Yes, I suppose some are more attractive to the happy bunch while others appeal to those who revel in misery.
While being an atheist can help with your sense of self worth and make you appreciate life a little more, when you exclude the factor of the outside bigotry, which is varied depending on your location, I think atheism and happiness are no more than loosely related.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 16, 2012, 07:36:32 PM
Sorry, but I think you are approaching this ass-first.
The first question is: Are happy atheists happy because they are atheists? Could it be that some are happy because they have an ok job, a good family and a whole mess of things to look forward to, with their world view being a by-stander to the whole thing?
In every life philosophy I know of, you can find happy and miserable people. Yes, I suppose some are more attractive to the happy bunch while others appeal to those who revel in misery.
While being an atheist can help with your sense of self worth and make you appreciate life a little more, when you exclude the factor of the outside bigotry, which is varied depending on your location, I think atheism and happiness are no more than loosely related.
So my thought is that probably the main relationship between atheism and happiness is the removal of the guilt and fear that can accompany religion. Atheists don't worry that they (or others they love) are constantly being judged and facing the possibility of eternal damnation by an omnipotent being who can hear their every dirty thought. It's kind of like the old joke "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "So stop doing that." Atheism isn't happiness per se, more like the removal of (one source of) unhappiness
Quote from: Ali on March 16, 2012, 07:48:55 PM
Atheism isn't happiness per se, more like the removal of (one source of) unhappiness
I don't think this applies as much to those of us who have never been in any god-camp as much as it does to ex-theists though.
What class is this for? Every field has a slightly different approach to these kind of issues.
Psychology, sociology, philosophy; they'll all have different "angles".
Quote from: Asmodean on March 16, 2012, 07:36:32 PM
Sorry, but I think you are approaching this ass-first.
The first question is: Are happy atheists happy because they are atheists? Could it be that some are happy because they have an ok job, a good family and a whole mess of things to look forward to, with their world view being a by-stander to the whole thing?
In every life philosophy I know of, you can find happy and miserable people. Yes, I suppose some are more attractive to the happy bunch while others appeal to those who revel in misery.
While being an atheist can help with your sense of self worth and make you appreciate life a little more, when you exclude the factor of the outside bigotry, which is varied depending on your location, I think atheism and happiness are no more than loosely related.
I think Asmo has it more right here.
I'll admit in reading the OP, my devious, deluded mind began an "AHHHHHH---HAAA!! (George Costanza) There's no written accounts that I've heard of that promote Atheism's happiness." - to my shame in having that knee-jerk reaction.
I don't think, as Asmo, it's a "real" issue as a secular person wouldn't define happiness as the difference between belief or unbelief. However I can appreciate Ali's experience.
You could compare the 'Happy Planet Index' with the countries that are irreligious and those that are prodemently of a certain type of religion. However I agree with Asmodean unless you can find a study that looks at other sources of happiness that can directly correlate those findings back to atheism I think it would be almost impossible to come to any conclusion that wasn't conjecture.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 16, 2012, 07:51:03 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 16, 2012, 07:48:55 PM
Atheism isn't happiness per se, more like the removal of (one source of) unhappiness
I don't think this applies as much to those of us who have never been in any god-camp as much as it does to ex-theists though.
Very true. If you've never had that guilt, you probably can't really appreciate its lack.
Quote from: Ali on March 16, 2012, 09:01:18 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 16, 2012, 07:51:03 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 16, 2012, 07:48:55 PM
Atheism isn't happiness per se, more like the removal of (one source of) unhappiness
I don't think this applies as much to those of us who have never been in any god-camp as much as it does to ex-theists though.
Very true. If you've never had that guilt, you probably can't really appreciate its lack.
Ditto to that!
if you just need data on if belief correlates to happiness then just research happiness levels in first world countries and rank them by how religous the country is...see if there is a difference. Then if there is a difference look and see what other factors could be at play before drawing conclusions.
Frankly, unless someone has done a study on if religion makes people happier than not having religion then the best you can do is cultural comparisons based on country data....what people think really doesn't matter if it's not how people actually act.
Quote from: Ali on March 16, 2012, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 16, 2012, 07:36:32 PM
Sorry, but I think you are approaching this ass-first.
The first question is: Are happy atheists happy because they are atheists? Could it be that some are happy because they have an ok job, a good family and a whole mess of things to look forward to, with their world view being a by-stander to the whole thing?
In every life philosophy I know of, you can find happy and miserable people. Yes, I suppose some are more attractive to the happy bunch while others appeal to those who revel in misery.
While being an atheist can help with your sense of self worth and make you appreciate life a little more, when you exclude the factor of the outside bigotry, which is varied depending on your location, I think atheism and happiness are no more than loosely related.
So my thought is that probably the main relationship between atheism and happiness is the removal of the guilt and fear that can accompany religion. Atheists don't worry that they (or others they love) are constantly being judged and facing the possibility of eternal damnation by an omnipotent being who can hear their every dirty thought. It's kind of like the old joke "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "So stop doing that." Atheism isn't happiness per se, more like the removal of (one source of) unhappiness
That is where my happiness as it relates to atheism comes in. I was a depressed child because I thought I was going to burn in hell for making my penis excrete a fluid it naturally released in my sleep. Especially when I did so while imagining my young female friends nude. Those instances were two moral sins in one.
So I'm happier in that regard, by not having the Christian guilt looming over me, but my other philosophical ideas also play a part in my overall level of happiness. Just as Asmoden suggested.
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on March 16, 2012, 10:39:18 PM
Asmoden
Sounds Swiss... ???
... ...
:D Ooh! I like it. Picture Grandpa Asmoden with a pipe and a brown cap and white mustaches. Poyfect! ;D
Quote from: Asmodean on March 17, 2012, 06:44:42 AM
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on March 16, 2012, 10:39:18 PM
Asmoden
Sounds Swiss... ???
... ...
:D Ooh! I like it. Picture Grandpa Asmoden with a pipe and a brown cap and white mustaches. Poyfect! ;D
We've been through this before, a moustache looks weird without a nose.
Maybe a goatee would work. No perhaps not, that probably requires a chin.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 17, 2012, 07:08:42 AM
We've been through this before, a moustache looks weird without a nose.
Maybe a goatee would work. No perhaps not, that probably requires a chin.
No, has to be SWISS moustache. Thick and wide. And curly at the ends. :D
Yeah, I can see a Swiss mustache on there...IMO a Hitler one would look weird without a nose, but a Swiss one...yes, I can see it happening. ;D
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 17, 2012, 10:02:52 PM
Yeah, I can see a Swiss mustache on there...IMO a Hitler one would look weird without a nose, but a Swiss one...yes, I can see it happening. ;D
Someone who is much better at the graphic arts than me....please make this happen. ;D
Quote from: Ali on March 19, 2012, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 17, 2012, 10:02:52 PM
Yeah, I can see a Swiss mustache on there...IMO a Hitler one would look weird without a nose, but a Swiss one...yes, I can see it happening. ;D
Someone who is much better at the graphic arts than me....please make this happen. ;D
I second this motion! ;D
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 19, 2012, 12:59:36 AM
Quote from: Ali on March 19, 2012, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 17, 2012, 10:02:52 PM
Yeah, I can see a Swiss mustache on there...IMO a Hitler one would look weird without a nose, but a Swiss one...yes, I can see it happening. ;D
Someone who is much better at the graphic arts than me....please make this happen. ;D
I second this motion! ;D
I third it!
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 20, 2012, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 19, 2012, 12:59:36 AM
Quote from: Ali on March 19, 2012, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 17, 2012, 10:02:52 PM
Yeah, I can see a Swiss mustache on there...IMO a Hitler one would look weird without a nose, but a Swiss one...yes, I can see it happening. ;D
Someone who is much better at the graphic arts than me....please make this happen. ;D
I second this motion! ;D
I third it!
Moton passes! Somebody get on it!
Quote from: Guardian85 on March 20, 2012, 08:09:33 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 20, 2012, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 19, 2012, 12:59:36 AM
Quote from: Ali on March 19, 2012, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 17, 2012, 10:02:52 PM
Yeah, I can see a Swiss mustache on there...IMO a Hitler one would look weird without a nose, but a Swiss one...yes, I can see it happening. ;D
Someone who is much better at the graphic arts than me....please make this happen. ;D
I second this motion! ;D
I third it!
Moton passes! Somebody get on it!
The people have spoken. ;D
Now, who's gonna do it?