Here's an interesting article from Slate, published yesterday, about atheism in America, and specifically in the Bible belt.
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/ft/2012/02/atheism_in_america_why_won_t_the_u_s_accept_its_atheists_.html
It doesn't cover a "hell" of a lot of new ground (sorry about the pun) but it may interesting or comforting at least.
Was it just me or did the comments from the various people make themselves out to be the victims, the underclass and second rate citizens. All sounded a bit pathetic to me but at least Sam Harris was talking some sense.
QuoteThe neuroscientist Sam Harris is one of America's best-known atheists; his 2004 book, The End of Faith, sold over half a million copies. He agrees that the situation for atheists is "analogous to being gay and in the closet for many people", and it is striking that virtually every atheist I spoke to talked the language of being "out" or "in the closet". Nevertheless, Harris argues "it's a losing game to trumpet the cause of atheism and try to rally around this variable politically. I've supported that in the past, I support those organisations, I understand why they do that. But, in the end, the victim group identity around atheism is the wrong strategy. It's like calling yourself a non-astrologer. We simply don't need the term."
However I live in a country where secularism is by large the norm and the vast majority of those that are religious aren't completely mental (oh and my local church has now become a gym for 6 days of the week so is now full of people doing Zumba every evening), so I guess I will never understand being in that situation.
I'm very envious of you, Crow. Where do you live?
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 06, 2012, 05:23:43 PM
I'm very envious of you, Crow. Where do you live?
Sounds like The United Kingdom of England to me... ???
I live in the US, but on the east coast, and I've never felt myself to be in that situation. Not that I wear my atheism on my sleeve, but there's no overt pressure to join a church. But I have heard similar stories before. The Bible Belt really is pretty nuts. While I can't relate to what they're talking about, I absolutely believe their stories about how bad it is.
Quote from: Asmodean on February 06, 2012, 05:25:44 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 06, 2012, 05:23:43 PM
I'm very envious of you, Crow. Where do you live?
Sounds like The United Kingdom of England to me... ???
I live in New york city, and even here there are very high religious pressures.... I hate it. I'm definitely moving to a secular country where I am free to believe in nothing without religious persecution.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 06, 2012, 05:34:56 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on February 06, 2012, 05:25:44 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 06, 2012, 05:23:43 PM
I'm very envious of you, Crow. Where do you live?
Sounds like The United Kingdom of England to me... ???
I live in New york city, and even here there are very high religious pressures.... I hate it. I'm definitely moving to a secular country where I am free to believe in nothing without religious persecution.
Even there? I was hoping if I moved up to the Northeast I would escape it for the most part.
Although I guess that still has to be relatively valid considering I live in the Bible Belt right now. :(
Honestly, i've never been to a part of the US free of religion.
I live in a heavily black and spanish infested area of NYC, and there are tons of baptist and catholic churchs surrounding me. *groan*
I don't have to be somewhere free of religion. People can believe what they want. It's only when 99% of the people I know are Christians, and crazy Fundamentalists control the local and state governments (Sally Kern) and are trying so hard to make their religion and prejudices (homophobia) part of our law.
Yeah the United Kingdom of England. Currently Manchester but I have lived in quite a few cities and have never really stumbled across any zany religious types although in Liverpool there were a few but that might have been because I lived near two cathedrals.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 06, 2012, 05:45:12 PM
Honestly, i've never been to a part of the US free of religion.
I live in a heavily black and spanish infested area of NYC, and there are tons of baptist and catholic churchs surrounding me. *groan*
There are plenty of places in NYC where you can move and not feel like you're surrounded by churches. I would encourage you to look around a bit for another apartment if you're not comfortable there. There aren't many places in the US where you can feel free from religion, but NYC definitely has them.
I plan to just leave the country, because i'm sick of the way this place is over runned by religious influence. Especially in politics.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 06, 2012, 06:21:01 PM
I plan to just leave the country, because i'm sick of the way this place is over runned by religious influence. Especially in politics.
Canada's a very close option. You won't escape religion here in the sense that there are churches on every 3rd street corner in most cities, but those are reminders of religion rather than fundamentalism itself. I've rarely, if ever, encountered scary fundies here in Ontario (unless I was related to one by birth, but that's different). People really just don't seem to preach their religion. We co-exist, more or less. Canada's known for its multiculturalism, and there's a very live and let live attitute -- if you're exposed to extreme forms of religious fervour here, it's generally because a family member takes you to church or because you walk into a religious house of worship yourself, but nobody seems to expect you to be anything, when it comes to faith. A lot of us here are pretty liberal. Not all, but a lot of us. And even our conservatives are to the left of your republicans, if not roughly equal to your democrats.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. In my immediate family, none of us are religious. And amongst my old friends, most of them were not religious. But since moving to my new home, I don't have the close friendships I used to have. Not yet at least. And I find that I feel a reticence to share my non belief. Perhaps because one of the first people I met here was a super-religious woman who tried to talk me into joining her church. That church is just a mile up the road. I've noticed that in a crowded room no one is afraid to say they're lutheran or catholic or even muslim or jewish. But I find myself afraid to say I'm an atheist. I'm just realizing how in the closet I am with strangers or aquaintances. I might think that it doesn't matter. But it does. Because if religion comes up I'm very careful about whether, and how, I talk about my non belief. That's not a good feeling.
I was particularly dismayed at Obama's most recent speech when he said that his faith informs his decisions. WTF??? I told my mother and she remembers John Kennedy. As the first catholic president, he was a ground-breaker in some ways. But she said that he was always very clear that his faith did NOT inform his decisions. That he always took the good of the country as his guide, not his personal religious beliefs. What the hell has happened to our country that this is no longer the case??? I feel like I'm in a science fiction horror story.
You should have seen my classes reaction when I told them that I'm Atheist. Definitely interesting. Definitely won't do it again
That captures my feelings, Traveler. I feel like most atheists are in the twilight zone in Usa.
The change from a Catholic high school in PA to a Lutheran college in Indiana is ridiculous. Really makes me wish I had looked into some colleges in New England more.
Denver seems fairly secular, or maybe I just run with a bad crowd. :D
Quote from: Mocha Chief on February 06, 2012, 09:18:39 PM
You should have seen my classes reaction when I told them that I'm Atheist. Definitely interesting. Definitely won't do it again
Mocha, a huge part of it is that right now, you're surrounded by fairly cliquey, sheltered teenagers who mostly haven't had enough exposure to difference and diversity. It's a trend in a lot of high schools for students to at least pass themselves off as being religious; spirituality is very "in", in that kind of setting. I wasn't immune to this mentality either. I remember all too well being 15, naive and narrowminded, proudly wearing a cross around my neck, and making friends with a boy in my math class who admitted to me that he was both bisexual AND an atheist, and that was too much for my narrow little mind to take at the time -- I regarded both labels as mysterious and 'deviant', according to my Catholic family's sensibilities. It probably didn't help that at the time, I was deeply in denial about my own sexuality. Even the THOUGHT of 'being that different' scared the crap out of me when I was 15. Thankfully, I grew up really quickly, got at least a bit more common sense and a LOT more life experience, came out of the closet myself, and not long after that, stopped calling myself a Catholic, and then stopped calling myself a Christian. It took me longer than it takes some people, but I am who I am now, and I'm thankful for that, and happy about it. I have a life that, despite its challenges, I love and wouldn't trade for the world.
All that to say... seriously, hang in there. You're just in an awkward place, and if/when you head either into college or the workforce, you're probably going to find many, many people who won't have that shocked reaction when you tell them you're an atheist. Getting a little older and a little more life-smart has its advantages, even if you do have to pay bills too. ;D
Quote from: Ali on February 06, 2012, 11:20:57 PM
Denver seems fairly secular, or maybe I just run with a bad crowd. :D
I have a tshirt that says "we are the people our parents warned us about." :D
Quote from: Amicale on February 07, 2012, 12:04:00 AM
Quote from: Ali on February 06, 2012, 11:20:57 PM
Denver seems fairly secular, or maybe I just run with a bad crowd. :D
I have a tshirt that says "we are the people our parents warned us about." :D
What! Kiddie fiddlers :P
Quote from: Crow on February 07, 2012, 12:19:23 AM
Quote from: Amicale on February 07, 2012, 12:04:00 AM
Quote from: Ali on February 06, 2012, 11:20:57 PM
Denver seems fairly secular, or maybe I just run with a bad crowd. :D
I have a tshirt that says "we are the people our parents warned us about." :D
What! Kiddie fiddlers :P
What? Hell no! :o Ack!
In elementary and highschool, my family always said 'don't hang around with any crazy people/bad influences'. I've become one of those. Which is what the shirt means. :P
Quote from: Crow on February 07, 2012, 12:19:23 AM
Quote from: Amicale on February 07, 2012, 12:04:00 AM
Quote from: Ali on February 06, 2012, 11:20:57 PM
Denver seems fairly secular, or maybe I just run with a bad crowd. :D
I have a tshirt that says "we are the people our parents warned us about." :D
What! Kiddie fiddlers :P
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg710.imageshack.us%2Fimg710%2F9922%2Frimshot.gif&hash=77d5ac078a921ed7ff6be629eed7a4f2ac98bb10)
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 06, 2012, 05:45:12 PM
Honestly, i've never been to a part of the US free of religion.
I live in a heavily black and spanish infested area of NYC, and there are tons of baptist and catholic churchs surrounding me. *groan*
Did you really use the term infestation to describe the cultural makeup of a neighborhood? Also, by using the term Spanish do you mean that the area is literally crawling with
Spaniards like Inigo Montoya?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprofile.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhprofile-ak-snc4%2F174854_181333085237363_5152914_n.jpg&hash=ca3d7cf62214dde300b34d9b6916210ab6d6f366)
I wish! ( love that movie btw.)
I guess I meant hispanics like puerto ricans amd domincans. Yeesh.
Quote from: Twentythree on February 07, 2012, 04:13:46 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 06, 2012, 05:45:12 PM
Honestly, i've never been to a part of the US free of religion.
I live in a heavily black and spanish infested area of NYC, and there are tons of baptist and catholic churchs surrounding me. *groan*
Did you really use the term infestation to describe the cultural makeup of a neighborhood? Also, by using the term Spanish do you mean that the area is literally crawling with Spaniards like Inigo Montoya?
I'm kind of glad you brought this up. I was bothered by it, but didn't feel inclined to say anything at the time. The term 'infestation' seems really inappropriate in reference to other people, because it implies that they are unwelcome pests. You could have just as easily said that you live in a primarily conservative religious area without ever mentioning the races of the people that make up that area. That you chose to mention race and then use the term infestation right after reads as kind of...well, racist.
I don't think it was necessarily your intention to be disparaging, but none the less, it reads that way. Maybe just be more mindful of language and context moving forward?
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 07, 2012, 11:01:03 PM
I wish! ( love that movie btw.)
I guess I meant hispanics like puerto ricans amd domincans. Yeesh.
I admit your comments bothered me too, as does this one. I should have said so earlier. Please don't say "infested".