Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 03, 2012, 01:33:20 AMOf course, if prostitution were legal, then we could tax it . . . hmmm.
It is taxed here, I don't think it should be. I don't like the idea of a tax obligation making them have to work more. Tax in a sense is how individuals pay to keep a society functioning. Society has failed at least some of them and maybe they shouldn't owe society anything. Perhaps I could argue the transaction is of a capital nature. The prostitute isn't just selling their time, they are selling themselves, they may loose a bit of themselves with every sale. I'll spare you an attempt at making a case for a depreciation claim. There would be some who seek legitimacy as a business person, who don't see themselves as victims and they wouldn't appreciate my view.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on February 03, 2012, 02:28:32 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 03, 2012, 01:33:20 AMOf course, if prostitution were legal, then we could tax it . . . hmmm.
It is taxed here, I don't think it should be. I don't like the idea of a tax obligation making them have to work more. Tax in a sense is how individuals pay to keep a society functioning. Society has failed at least some of them and maybe they shouldn't owe society anything. Perhaps I could argue the transaction is of a capital nature. The prostitute isn't just selling their time, they are selling themselves, they may loose a bit of themselves with every sale. I'll spare you an attempt at making a case for a depreciation claim. There would be some who seek legitimacy as a business person, who don't see themselves as victims and they wouldn't appreciate my view.
And there is the rub with legalized prostitution. I think that people should be allowed to do it, but if that is their only or best option to survive, society is definitely failing them.
Quote from: Ali on February 03, 2012, 02:31:47 AM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on February 03, 2012, 02:28:32 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 03, 2012, 01:33:20 AMOf course, if prostitution were legal, then we could tax it . . . hmmm.
It is taxed here, I don't think it should be. I don't like the idea of a tax obligation making them have to work more. Tax in a sense is how individuals pay to keep a society functioning. Society has failed at least some of them and maybe they shouldn't owe society anything. Perhaps I could argue the transaction is of a capital nature. The prostitute isn't just selling their time, they are selling themselves, they may loose a bit of themselves with every sale. I'll spare you an attempt at making a case for a depreciation claim. There would be some who seek legitimacy as a business person, who don't see themselves as victims and they wouldn't appreciate my view.
And there is the rub with legalized prostitution. I think that people should be allowed to do it, but if that is their only or best option to survive, society is definitely failing them.
Thank you Ali , MP. I find it very scary if anyone finds prostitution okay... These people..human beings are hurt, probably suffering a childhood trauma. They arent respecting themselves, and do lose a little piece each time. Being used like an empty vessel or object is very sad..
It says A LOT about a society when these people think they have NO OTHER choice.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 03, 2012, 02:45:57 AM
Thank you Ali , MP. I find it very scary if anyone finds prostitution okay... These people..human beings are hurt, probably suffering a childhood trauma. They arent respecting themselves, and do lose a little piece each time. Being used like an empty vessel or object is very sad..
It says A LOT about a society when these people think they have NO OTHER choice.
I don't find prostitution OK, I have an antipathy, a distaste for the thing.
I never have, never want to have any direct connection to it, I try to hold on to some romantic illusions.
Not so much lately but a few years back you'd hear interviews with representatives of the sex industry, workers not pimps. They were pretty clear that illegality made things worse for them. Beatings, police harrasment/corruption, STDs, pimps, safety, income, everything is worse for them if it is illegal. Laws don't make it go away, they increase the hurt.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 03, 2012, 02:45:57 AM
It says A LOT about a society when these people think they have NO OTHER choice.
And if they have other choices but prefer to sell sex? My problem is that "demeaning", "losing yourself", etc. can be said of a lot of jobs, including jobs that a hooker may have left in preference for commodity sex, as they call it. I have no problem with getting emotionally damaged people the help they need to pull themselves together and make a good life of their choice, but I also have no problem if that choice is selling sex and I think the work would be a lot less dangerous if it were legal.
This thread probably should be split before we get put in the derail thread.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 03, 2012, 03:18:44 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 03, 2012, 02:45:57 AM
It says A LOT about a society when these people think they have NO OTHER choice.
And if they have other choices but prefer to sell sex? My problem is that "demeaning", "losing yourself", etc. can be said of a lot of jobs, including jobs that a hooker may have left in preference for commodity sex, as they call it. I have no problem with getting emotionally damaged people the help they need to pull themselves together and make a good life of their choice, but I also have no problem if that choice is selling sex and I think the work would be a lot less dangerous if it were legal.
I agree, I think. I'm of two minds. I would hope that legalizing it, or better yet, regulating it, would do something to stem human trafficking. From what I've read, worldwide the number of sex workers who are basically slaves (some of them have been essentially kidnapped from their home countries and told they had a legitimate job waiting for them overseas) far outnumbers the number who have "chosen" the occupation. Maybe with regulation, there would be enough people who "chose" to be prostitutes (even if it was just the least crappy among other crappy choices) that the number of people kidnapped and literally forced into prostitution would be fewer. I don't know, though, maybe legalization would not have that large an impact on human trafficking.
(Sorry, just saw your post, Pudding.)
Quote from: Anne D. on February 03, 2012, 03:46:43 AM
I don't know, though, maybe legalization would not have that large an impact on human trafficking.
Which is illegal all on its own anyway.
Quote from: Anne D. on February 03, 2012, 03:46:43 AM
(Sorry, just saw your post, Pudding.)
That's fine, I wasn't aiming to tell anyone what to do, I'm not a strict on topic person anyway. :)
QuoteCauses (http://www.humantrafficking.org/countries/australia)
There are many causes of human trafficking to Australia. Project Respect argues that the demand for trafficked women in Australia is fueled by: 1) a lack of women in Australia prepared to do prostitution; 2) 'customer' demand for women seen as compliant; 3) 'customer' demand for women who they can be violent towards; and 4) racialized ideas that Asian women have certain qualities, for example that they are more compliant and will accept higher levels of violence.
Prostitution is mostly legal is Aus so this should increase the local supply reducing the demand described in point 1 above.
I do support basic social security support so people don't have to resort to such things.
My thoughts are, it shouldn't be illegal, because in a sense you are telling someone what to do with their own body, BUT it shouldn't be encouraged in any way.
I think.it should be legal and regulated, though honestly more community services should provide help for these people .
I am personally disgusted at the thought of one selling their body. And even more appauled at anyone WILLING to pay a stranger for sex.... I mean, that is low. Leaving out love or romance, you are allowing a total stranger to touch you. It's just...ugh.. ... Seems so completely dehumanizing......
Adults can decide for themselves if they want to pay for services and adults can decide for themselves if they will provide certain services for a price.
I can't think of a valid reason why prostitution should be illegal.
Society can function perfectly well without a law prohibiting prostitution, therefore we don't need a government unnecessarily restricting adults from making these decisions for themselves.
Quote from: Stevil on February 03, 2012, 06:58:12 AM
Adults can decide for themselves if they want to pay for services and adults can decide for themselves if they will provide certain services for a price.
I can't think of a valid reason why prostitution should be illegal.
Society can function perfectly well without a law prohibiting prostitution, therefore we don't need a government unnecessarily restricting adults from making these decisions for themselves.
yeah, I've got to agree with you Stevil, and with BCE. I've done a few shop jobs before, and they was pretty damn degrading, and I consider my job now to be prostitution of sorts. I've got no interest in it, I give my time up for money. If I was single and could get paid for having sex I'd certainly consider it, but women generally don't have to pay for sex, they can just go out and get it for free if they want it, so it's unlikely I could make any money as a straight guy. I've had quite a few one night stands in the past, and have never found having sex with a stranger to be 'dehumanizing' in any way shape or form. It's been good fun every time, you don't need romance or love to have good sex (well I don't anyway).
while there are obviously women working in the sex industry in awful conditions and some against their will (which would be illegal in any 'job'), there are also women charging £500 or £1000 an hour, the latter certainly aren't being exploited in any way shape or form. If I was a pretty woman and could make that kind of money I'd certainly consider it.
I would think legalizing prostitution would make it safer for everyone, particularly for prostitutes, and hopefully prevent some from being exploited quite so much by pimps and other forms of procurers
Penn and Teller, they did a fair episode about this in their Bullshit show.
Quote from: Asmodean on February 03, 2012, 10:26:36 AMPenn and Teller, they did a fair episode about this in their Bullshit show.
I think one of the best arguments I saw on that episode was something like, "why is it illegal to charge for something that's perfectly legal to give away for free?"
Quote from: Davin on February 03, 2012, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on February 03, 2012, 10:26:36 AMPenn and Teller, they did a fair episode about this in their Bullshit show.
I think one of the best arguments I saw on that episode was something like, "why is it illegal to charge for something that's perfectly legal to give away for free?"
And that's the thing - it's so weird to me that really what the government is writing laws about is motivation. We can have sex with any other consenting adult that we want for
any reason that we want...except money? What?
I do think that situations where people are forced into prostitution are completely awful and need to be stopped. But let's say that a person says "I like to have sex, I don't feel like getting a nine to five, and I think that being a prostitute would suit me just fine." Well, I think that person should be allowed to do it.
It really shouldn't be illegal. I nevee got why it was. I agree, having sex for free is fine, but charging money--then the gov gets involved? Why?
It's another way to inpede on human rights.
I don't see why it should be illegal. I also don't see why it would be bad if that's what the person really wants to do. Stripping is legal in most areas, even full nude stripping, and women could be doing that because they either enjoy it or because they feel they have to for the money. Making something illegal only drives the practice further underground and takes away the ability to insure safe working conditions. With prostitution being legal, as it is in some areas outside of vegas, the service can be regulated (regular checkups and, perhaps, psych evals) and the prostitutes could even call the police without concern if they had a problem with a customer.
But the gov would need to be involved in regulation if prostitution were legal. Just like they have to regulate all other services that could affect public health. The US doesn't have a good working model for how to regulate any health related industry without government involvement. With a tatoo parlor they have to maintain clinical conditions; with a prostitute it would be mainlining her (or his) body to be std free. It wouldn't be a violation of human rights because a person could choose not to enter that industry if they didn't want to go through regular std screenings.
As for taxing...it could be treated like any other taxable service. It wouldn't be fair to everyone else who has more traditional jobs to not tax prostitution at all. I don't agree with special 'vice' taxes though; at least not unless there is a demonstrateable harm of that vice to society and the extra tax money goes directly towards offsetting that harm.
If you are going to emphasize human freedom, then you have to take the bad with the good. As long as no one is getting victimized or exploited and public health concerns are being met (which can hopefully be done through regulation), then people should be free to do what they want with their own bodies.
my opinion is that, unless a woman is forced into it against her will I see no reason to be illegal. Sex is a normal bodily function and if a man (or woman) is horny and doesn't want to do it solo, they should have that option.
When Norway implemented the most ridiculus prostitution law ever in 2006, the only thing that happened was that the buisness was forced deeper underground. This made it more difficult to keep control of the buisness and made it less safe for the working girls.
A system where you would have to register as a sex worker would be the best. It would be a serious bump in the road for the trafficers, it could enforce regular check-ups, and the fact that it is not illegal would mean that the girls can work in proper facilities with good security.
Nothing makes a guy behave like the knowledge that he can be thrown out, probably butt naked, by a large guy in a Security shirt.
Quote from: Guardian85 on February 03, 2012, 06:45:29 PM
When Norway implemented the most ridiculus prostitution law ever in 2006, the only thing that happened was that the buisness was forced deeper underground.
Also, more coin for the government. That said, it's pretty much just as easy to get street sex now as before.
QuoteThis made it more difficult to keep control of the buisness and made it less safe for the working girls.
Coin for the government... How are the working girls supposed to even slightly tip the scales?
QuoteNothing makes a guy behave like the knowledge that he can be thrown out, probably butt naked, by a large guy in a Security shirt.
Sorry, but this is just wrong. Oh, sure, it does lessen the chance of more minor offences towards the prostitutes, but it won't stop a rapist for instance. Active surveilance might, but then some bleeding-heart freedom to the people types would scream and shout about your batroom being next.
Why exactly ia it illegal anyeay? I mean, I definitely most of these people need help.or a pysch exam, but WHY it something that has existed for centuries illegal?
People seem to look down on prostitutes and not the people who come to them. I find it all very hypocritical. Something tells me a religious act is behind why most people want to keep it illegal.
Quote from: Davin on February 03, 2012, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on February 03, 2012, 10:26:36 AMPenn and Teller, they did a fair episode about this in their Bullshit show.
I think one of the best arguments I saw on that episode was something like, "why is it illegal to charge for something that's perfectly legal to give away for free?"
It is legal to give away but illegal to sell your body parts (transplants) in many places, I can see the sense of it to avoid exploitation. This prohibition may be beneficial because it reduces the incidence of desperates selling their kidneys. The transplant process doesn't lend it self as easily to alleyway/car/cheap room exchanges. With prostitution it is very hard too reduce the incidence of the act, and really it's not the incidence of the thing that concerns me, it is the suffering of the prostitute. I think it's pretty clear making it illegal doesn't assist prostitutes.
I hope I haven't started a why can't I sell my body parts in a free market derail.
That's what makes me sad. A lot of these people cant depend on the law to help them.if they are really in trouble. >__<
Make it legal, so they dont have to live in fear and shame if something terrible happens. I dislike the idea of looking down on anyone who needs help.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 04, 2012, 12:26:37 AM
That's what makes me sad. A lot of these people cant depend on the law to help them.if they are really in trouble. >__<
Make it legal, so they dont have to live in fear and shame if something terrible happens. I dislike the idea of looking down on anyone who needs help.
Here here. The way the system works now, it feels like we're failing them doubly. First because many of them seem to have no other or better options than prostitution, and second because if someone hurts them, they can't go to the police for fear of being arrested themselves. That's not the way we should be treating our fellow humans.
Quote from: Ali on February 04, 2012, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 04, 2012, 12:26:37 AM
That's what makes me sad. A lot of these people cant depend on the law to help them.if they are really in trouble. >__<
Make it legal, so they dont have to live in fear and shame if something terrible happens. I dislike the idea of looking down on anyone who needs help.
Here here. The way the system works now, it feels like we're failing them doubly. First because many of them seem to have no other or better options than prostitution, and second because if someone hurts them, they can't go to the police for fear of being arrested themselves. That's not the way we should be treating our fellow humans.
Yeah, seriously. Making victims feel like they did something wrong is a terrible thing. Our US justice system seems to fail a lot of people.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on February 03, 2012, 06:36:02 AM
My thoughts are, it shouldn't be illegal, because in a sense you are telling someone what to do with their own body, BUT it shouldn't be encouraged in any way.
I think.it should be legal and regulated, though honestly more community services should provide help for these people .
I am personally disgusted at the thought of one selling their body. And even more appauled at anyone WILLING to pay a stranger for sex.... I mean, that is low. Leaving out love or romance, you are allowing a total stranger to touch you. It's just...ugh.. ... Seems so completely dehumanizing......
I'm not appalled at someone paying for sex. I'm appalled at someone knowingly paying for sex that's provided by someone who has been forced to be a prostitute, but not by the concept of paying for sex in general.
Some people would never get to have sex if they didn't pay for it.
Quote from: Anne D. on February 04, 2012, 12:55:07 AM
Some people would never get to have sex if they didn't pay for it.
Sweet Cream Ladies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGR9I-s1BYg) I couldn't resist.
Is everyone agreed that prostitutes are only women who have been forced to sell a service?
Aren't there also women who see this as a way to make good money very fast? I mean, a high end call girl makes more working 10 hours a week then I make in a month.
Quote"Hmmm... I can work 40 hours a week at Kentuky Fried Chicken, or I can blow the Colonel for 30 minutes."
-Bill Maher-
Quote from: Guardian85 on February 04, 2012, 01:54:13 PM
Is everyone agreed that prostitutes are only women who have been forced to sell a service?
Aren't there also women who see this as a way to make good money very fast? I mean, a high end call girl makes more working 10 hours a week then I make in a month.
Quote"Hmmm... I can work 40 hours a week at Kentuky Fried Chicken, or I can blow the Colonel for 30 minutes."
-Bill Maher-
There was an interesting TV programme called "The Chicken Ranch". It was about a brothel near Las Vagas where prostitution is legal. The women would take a room for a day or so and pay 50% of their take as rent. There was one lady who needed a new engine for her car and could earn that in a day.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on February 04, 2012, 12:20:48 AM
I hope I haven't started a why can't I sell my body parts in a free market derail.
Ruined. :'(
I guess whatever works for some people. I need money pretty badly for bills right now, and would love to get my apt already, but i'd rather work a different route.
I only feel sad when some people (its not only women...) feel that this is all they are worth, because maybe they have no education or job skills.
Quote from: Guardian85 on February 04, 2012, 01:54:13 PM
Is everyone agreed that prostitutes are only women who have been forced to sell a service?
Aren't there also women who see this as a way to make good money very fast? I mean, a high end call girl makes more working 10 hours a week then I make in a month.
Quote"Hmmm... I can work 40 hours a week at Kentuky Fried Chicken, or I can blow the Colonel for 30 minutes."
-Bill Maher-
No, I believe there are some women who do it because it's an easy way to make a lot of money fast and they don't mind it. In that scenario, I'm fine with it. Do what you want, it's your body. But like SD, I think that a lot (I would dare say the majority) of prostitutes in this country are people who do it because they don't feel that they have better choices. That makes me sad. There should always be a better choice than selling your body to strangers.
Quote from: Ali on February 04, 2012, 02:51:41 PM
Quote from: Guardian85 on February 04, 2012, 01:54:13 PM
Is everyone agreed that prostitutes are only women who have been forced to sell a service?
Aren't there also women who see this as a way to make good money very fast? I mean, a high end call girl makes more working 10 hours a week then I make in a month.
Quote"Hmmm... I can work 40 hours a week at Kentuky Fried Chicken, or I can blow the Colonel for 30 minutes."
-Bill Maher-
No, I believe there are some women who do it because it's an easy way to make a lot of money fast and they don't mind it. In that scenario, I'm fine with it. Do what you want, it's your body. But like SD, I think that a lot (I would dare say the majority) of prostitutes in this country are people who do it because they don't feel that they have better choices. That makes me sad. There should always be a better choice than selling your body to strangers.
That's well said.
Quote from: Ali on February 04, 2012, 02:51:41 PM
No, I believe there are some women who do it because it's an easy way to make a lot of money fast and they don't mind it. In that scenario, I'm fine with it. Do what you want, it's your body. But like SD, I think that a lot (I would dare say the majority) of prostitutes in this country are people who do it because they don't feel that they have better choices. That makes me sad. There should always be a better choice than selling your body to strangers.
Exactly, Ali. Well put. I'd say that the majority of prostitutes in Canada are in the same boat as those in America -- most do it because they feel they have no other options, and very few do it because it's one of many options for them and/or because they enjoy the sex or the money. Prostitution itself is legal here -- you can sell or purchase sexual 'services', but any actual activities that basically advertise the sex trade, ie, advertising brothels, or walking up to someone and handing out flyers, isn't legal. Our laws here are a really mixed bag, and they're confusing. Mostly, from what I've heard on the news, sex workers can certainly go to police if they've been assaulted/raped, but on the other hand, it isn't easy for them to access any other kind of support that could help them, such as making sure they all have regular STD screening, condoms/other forms of protection, and most importantly, making sure they work for people who are not taking advantage of them. It's not regulated here by any means. There's no way of knowing which locations it'd even be 'safe' to work in. The other huge issue we've got are underage minors involved in sex work. There are tons of them. Just in Toronto, there's probably just under a couple thousand kids working in the sex trade, 14, 15, 16 year olds, etc, passing themselves off as 18. It's really, REALLY sad.
For those who are of legal age and actually WANT to work in that industry, I think those people should be targeted for health exams, use of protection against pregnancy/STD's, and again, most importantly, for the safety of their work environment. Abuse, withholding pay, and rape are the main concerns, but there's also drug use, blackmail, alcoholism etc in the mix as well, and I personally think our social system's failed these people badly. There NEED to be support programs in place for people who DO want to get out of this industry (including other job training/drug rehab/counseling)... and there need to be support systems in place to maintain the health, safety and general well-being of people who want to STAY in the industry. Above all, they need to crack down hard on the efforts to get minors out of the industry altogether.
This is where I have a problem with the opinions of columnists/podcasters (relationship/sex advice guru) like Dan Savage. He takes calls from time to time from sex workers who 'love' their jobs, love the money, want to get into the industry, etc... and his basic attitude seems to be that sex work can really be empowering for women. Sure, for some women, it could be, but he never has publically addressed the much seedier side of the industry. Saying "use condoms, use common sense, and only take the clients you want to take" isn't addressing prostitutes in general. That's only addressing freelance sex workers who enjoy the opportunity to create their own business. Everyone else, the majority of sex workers I daresay, don't work for themselves, don't have much say in who they have sex with, don't have the ability to set their own fees, may not have easy access to health care, may not have any way of getting themselves out of a terrible situation, etc...
All around, it's really a mess.
If there ever was a case mede for how well high-end pristitutes are doing it is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9PrR_J9vJM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Thought this was funny as hell...
I'm not surprised that prostitutes would support Ron Paul -- as a Libertarian he actually supports keeping the Government out of peoples private lives, something the Republicans only give lip service to.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 05, 2012, 05:26:17 PM
I'm not surprised that prostitutes would support Ron Paul -- as a Libertarian he actually supports keeping the Government out of peoples private lives, something the Republicans only give lip service to.
I'm all for the government staying out of people's private lives. As our famous former prime minister Pierre Trudeau said, the governments have no business in the bedrooms of the people. I suppose though, to at least some extent, your workplace isn't exactly your 'private life' no matter what kind of work you're doing. My concern is that if there's a totally hands-off policy when it comes to the government and prostitution.... who will regulate fair wages, fair treatment, health, safety, and other employment standards etc?
Quote from: Amicale on February 05, 2012, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 05, 2012, 05:26:17 PM
I'm not surprised that prostitutes would support Ron Paul -- as a Libertarian he actually supports keeping the Government out of peoples private lives, something the Republicans only give lip service to.
I'm all for the government staying out of people's private lives. As our famous former prime minister Pierre Trudeau said, the governments have no business in the bedrooms of the people. I suppose though, to at least some extent, your workplace isn't exactly your 'private life' no matter what kind of work you're doing. My concern is that if there's a totally hands-off policy when it comes to the government and prostitution.... who will regulate fair wages, fair treatment, health, safety, and other employment standards etc?
I think the hands off private lives is for the benefit of customers, not workers. The Government would regulate prostitution (which will probably do more to kill the practice than any number of torch carrying Fundies) and stop arresting johns.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on February 04, 2012, 12:20:48 AM
Quote from: Davin on February 03, 2012, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on February 03, 2012, 10:26:36 AMPenn and Teller, they did a fair episode about this in their Bullshit show.
I think one of the best arguments I saw on that episode was something like, "why is it illegal to charge for something that's perfectly legal to give away for free?"
It is legal to give away but illegal to sell your body parts (transplants) in many places, I can see the sense of it to avoid exploitation. This prohibition may be beneficial because it reduces the incidence of desperates selling their kidneys. The transplant process doesn't lend it self as easily to alleyway/car/cheap room exchanges. With prostitution it is very hard too reduce the incidence of the act, and really it's not the incidence of the thing that concerns me, it is the suffering of the prostitute. I think it's pretty clear making it illegal doesn't assist prostitutes.
I hope I haven't started a why can't I sell my body parts in a free market derail.
I really don't think they're comparable:
It's not perfectly legal to give out organs for free, there are many legal and safety issues involved when an untrained, unlicensed person removes an organ and attempts to give it to someone else.
People cannot legally give out their organs for free where ever or when ever they want.
There is no comparable risk between the two.
One gives something out that cannot be given out again.
One requires a third party to perform.
And so many other differences.
I have never used a prostitute and never intend to but I think it should be legalised and be regulated. Men and women are going to whore themselves out whether its legal or not. By legalising prostitution it will help with providing better conditions for those that do work in the industry and help authorities be able to focus on those that are getting abused and taken advantage of, it hopefully would also help with what I think is a much worse problem of those running the despicable act of sex slavery.
the second oldest profession should be legal
ofcourse out in the open, clean, protected, regulated, expanded, sophisticated and with increased pensions and recognition of "outstanding" social contribution.
Of course it should be legalized. People go into a particular line of work for the wrong reasons all the time. That is not an excuse to criminalize an industry. An adult has the right to sell their property (including their body) if they choose. The individual owns their body, therefor, the individual has a right to rent their body out if they choose to do so.
Simple as that.
Edit: Also, a lot of society is unhappy with their jobs. Perhaps we should ban Dishwashers... I loved getting yelled at by stupid servers and lower management because the dishes weren't being cleaned quick enough. I was miserable and felt degraded... That profession should be banned.
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on February 07, 2012, 11:19:22 PM
Of course it should be legalized. People go into a particular line of work for the wrong reasons all the time. That is not an excuse to criminalize an industry. An adult has the right to sell their property (including their body) if they choose. The individual owns their body, therefor, the individual has a right to rent their body out if they choose to do so.
Simple as that.
Edit: Also, a lot of society is unhappy with their jobs. Perhaps we should ban Dishwashers... I loved getting yelled at by stupid servers and lower management because the dishes weren't being cleaned quick enough. I was miserable and felt degraded... That profession should be banned.
I agree with you that it should be legalized, and that banning something just because someone went into a line of work with the 'wrong reasons' is a weak argument against it, as well as the argument that someone might be miserable or feel degraded in that line of work -- as you said, lots of us feel degraded and insignificant at work.
But just to play devil's advocate for a moment, as a dishwasher, were you in danger of one of your bosses abusing you physically, raping you, subjecting you to unsafe working environments that risked your wellbeing, or allowing you to contract a potentially deadly disease? Those are a lot of the concerns I see being brought up with prostitution. That, and the 'management' as it were, of prostitution establishments don't have anyone to answer to if they're screwing up or doing something that puts you in danger.
Prostitution fascinates me. Or rather, the fixation with it fascinates me. I find it so ironic that we can live in a culture that regularly broadcasts to us through media and advertising that sex sells and that women's bodies are a commodity, but at the same time looks down its nose at prostitution, stripping, etc...
I'd like to see prostitution legalized and regulated, so that the whole process is safer for both sex workers and their clients. Or if they aren't going to full-on legalize and regulate, at the very least decriminalize it so workers don't have to fear contacting police for help and we don't have to listen to any more bullshit news stories about politicians and famous people soliciting sex instead of talking about the issues that actually impact our societies. It's legal in parts of Nevada, I don't see why it couldn't and shouldn't be elsewhere in America. The impact is could have on decreasing human trafficking would be tremendous.
I'm probably a weirdo and a sexual deviant, but I don't see anything wrong with prostitution and I think it's quite appealing as a job option where you make good money with flexible hours. I do think it has the potential to be empowering for some people, especially when you consider how many sex workers have regular clients. Part of me thinks it might actually feel pretty good to know that not only are you so good at giving blow jobs that people will pay you to do it, but that they might come back on a regular basis. If I had my choice between prostitution and many of the food service and customer service jobs I've worked where I got paid shit to be treated like shit, well then I guess you better bust out the KY and handcuffs. Having sex for money is no more or no less degrading than being a janitor, a garbage man, a professional diaper changer or whatever else you can think of that involves doing pretty gross shit for not nearly enough money.
Quote from: Amicale on February 07, 2012, 11:54:11 PM
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on February 07, 2012, 11:19:22 PM
Of course it should be legalized. People go into a particular line of work for the wrong reasons all the time. That is not an excuse to criminalize an industry. An adult has the right to sell their property (including their body) if they choose. The individual owns their body, therefor, the individual has a right to rent their body out if they choose to do so.
Simple as that.
Edit: Also, a lot of society is unhappy with their jobs. Perhaps we should ban Dishwashers... I loved getting yelled at by stupid servers and lower management because the dishes weren't being cleaned quick enough. I was miserable and felt degraded... That profession should be banned.
I agree with you that it should be legalized, and that banning something just because someone went into a line of work with the 'wrong reasons' is a weak argument against it, as well as the argument that someone might be miserable or feel degraded in that line of work -- as you said, lots of us feel degraded and insignificant at work.
But just to play devil's advocate for a moment, as a dishwasher, were you in danger of one of your bosses abusing you physically, raping you, subjecting you to unsafe working environments that risked your wellbeing, or allowing you to contract a potentially deadly disease? Those are a lot of the concerns I see being brought up with prostitution. That, and the 'management' as it were, of prostitution establishments don't have anyone to answer to if they're screwing up or doing something that puts you in danger.
I know it's a weak argument, that's why I made it. It was a joke. ;)
Edit: Regardless, I will play along with your playing devils advocate. While working as a dishwasher, I had a rash on my feet for over 3 months due to the chemicals in the water that saturated my work boots. I was also susceptible to disease, though not to the extent of a prostitute. I would typically cut myself on broken glass or on sharp metal edges a couple times a week.
Again though, the statement you were initially responding to was meant as a jab at those who use that argument, so don't take my response to seriously. ;D I hate using smilies, but it's hard to get sarcasm on the internet without them.
Quote from: Amicale on February 07, 2012, 11:54:11 PM
But just to play devil's advocate for a moment, as a dishwasher, were you in danger of one of your bosses abusing you physically, raping you, subjecting you to unsafe working environments that risked your wellbeing, or allowing you to contract a potentially deadly disease? Those are a lot of the concerns I see being brought up with prostitution. That, and the 'management' as it were, of prostitution establishments don't have anyone to answer to if they're screwing up or doing something that puts you in danger.
As a dishwasher you could be in danger of being abused or assaulted by your boss or another employee. The difference is that the dishwasher can go to the police without fearing arrest for washing dishes. ;)
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on February 08, 2012, 01:35:21 AM
Quote from: Amicale on February 07, 2012, 11:54:11 PM
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on February 07, 2012, 11:19:22 PM
Of course it should be legalized. People go into a particular line of work for the wrong reasons all the time. That is not an excuse to criminalize an industry. An adult has the right to sell their property (including their body) if they choose. The individual owns their body, therefor, the individual has a right to rent their body out if they choose to do so.
Simple as that.
Edit: Also, a lot of society is unhappy with their jobs. Perhaps we should ban Dishwashers... I loved getting yelled at by stupid servers and lower management because the dishes weren't being cleaned quick enough. I was miserable and felt degraded... That profession should be banned.
I agree with you that it should be legalized, and that banning something just because someone went into a line of work with the 'wrong reasons' is a weak argument against it, as well as the argument that someone might be miserable or feel degraded in that line of work -- as you said, lots of us feel degraded and insignificant at work.
But just to play devil's advocate for a moment, as a dishwasher, were you in danger of one of your bosses abusing you physically, raping you, subjecting you to unsafe working environments that risked your wellbeing, or allowing you to contract a potentially deadly disease? Those are a lot of the concerns I see being brought up with prostitution. That, and the 'management' as it were, of prostitution establishments don't have anyone to answer to if they're screwing up or doing something that puts you in danger.
I know it's a weak argument, that's why I made it. It was a joke. ;)
Edit: Regardless, I will play along with your playing devils advocate. While working as a dishwasher, I had a rash on my feet for over 3 months due to the chemicals in the water that saturated my work boots. I was also susceptible to disease, though not to the extent of a prostitute. I would typically cut myself on broken glass or on sharp metal edges a couple times a week.
Again though, the statement you were initially responding to was meant as a jab at those who use that argument, so don't take my response to seriously. ;D I hate using smilies, but it's hard to get sarcasm on the internet without them.
Forgive me. For reasons somewhat beyond my control, my jokes and sarcasm meter is broken somewhat. They didn't call me 'Captain Oblivious' in highschool for nuthin'... ;D
Quote from: Amicale on February 08, 2012, 08:51:05 PM
Forgive me. For reasons somewhat beyond my control, my jokes and sarcasm meter is broken somewhat. They didn't call me 'Captain Oblivious' in highschool for nuthin'... ;D
No need to forgive you. It's extremely easy to miss things like that when they are in print. I have been guilty multiple times of not catching sarcasm and attempts at humor on message boards.
While I've never sought out a prostitute I have had lap dances in strip clubs that crossed a line. I can't say I've ever felt the slightest guilt that I may have victimized the dancer because I never prearranged for it or even knew I was about to get an extra nasty dance before hand. I've always just counted it as a lucky thing.
That doesn't mean I didn't feel sinful and hypocritical because these weren't Christian places to go. Oddly enough most of my church buddies loved to hear stories about how I'd gone to some new club and meet a hot blond whose name just happened to be Goldilockz, what are the odds of that?
I have worked with guys who used to go to Nevada and stop in to some of the brothels. It never sounded very fun to me seeing as it always begins with the girl giving you a complete visual inspection then scrubbing you down with iodine. I figure there must not be many married men cheating on their wives there because it takes a couple days for the iodine stains to come off your junk.
I'm good with nearly anything between consenting adults in terms of sex. While I find prostitution distasteful, I find other perfectly legal means of making money to be even more distasteful, so I'm not sure why we single out sex for such an inordinate amount of attention.