I attend college in a rather rural part of my state, which is located in the Bible belt of the US. I don't know how the topic came up but I told my group of friends that I was an atheist. Now, they seem determined to 'convert' me or something.
They laughed when I refused a copy of the New Testament that was being passed out at a function, and make sure to put their copies on my side of the room.
They're always talking about their youth group (or as I refer to it in my mind--their cult) and invite me constantly even though they know my beliefs.
My roommate is determined to start up religious conversations at two in the morning and they asked me why as an atheist I celebrated Christmas.
Is it too much to ask that they respect my beliefs just as I respect theirs?
Define "respect my beliefs"...
How I handle religious friends is to politely discuss the things they bring up, and eventually they stop bringing up religious topics around me. I don't go out of my way to bring up why I don't believe in a god or gods, only if they want to bring it up with me.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on January 10, 2012, 08:52:27 PM
Define "respect my beliefs"...
Respect that I'm an atheist and don't believe in what they believe
Quote from: corgilover on January 10, 2012, 09:49:11 PM
Respect that I'm an atheist and don't believe in what they believe
Call me weird, but that doesn't really give me an idea of what it means to 'respect my beliefs' means to you. I can respect that you're atheist and still ask you questions or bring up religious ideas to discuss with you can't I?
I have a feeling you mean something more than just the above dozen words...
Yeah, sounds like a pain. I'd practice saying "no thank you" and "I really don't want to talk about it" until they roll off your tongue with no effort. ;) Hugs and best wishes!!! :)
Edited to add: Or you could buy some atheist books and start leaving them around for them to read. lol
Quote from: corgilover on January 10, 2012, 08:43:22 PM
They laughed when I refused a copy of the New Testament that was being passed out at a function, and make sure to put their copies on my side of the room.
AD, if me and a bunch of my atheist buddies made sure to put a bunch of copies of The God Delusion and God is Not Great on your side of the room after being told you're a Christian, would you find that respectful? 'Cause trust me when I say that if I did it, "being respectful" would not be my intent.
Big Hugs Corgilover. I totally agree with Traveler - you don't need to discuss or defend your beliefs if you don't want to. Saying a simple "No thank you" with a beautific smile often goes a long way towards making someone notice how rude they're being.
Quote from: Ali on January 10, 2012, 10:56:27 PM
AD, if me and a bunch of my atheist buddies made sure to put a bunch of copies of The God Delusion and God is Not Great on your side of the room after being told you're a Christian, would you find that respectful? 'Cause trust me when I say that if I did it, "being respectful" would not be my intent.
I would giggle since I already own those books and am reading them...well, the God Delusion, I haven't started the other.
I certainly wouldn't take it as being disrespectful of my beliefs if we were friends.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on January 10, 2012, 11:26:59 PM
Quote from: Ali on January 10, 2012, 10:56:27 PM
AD, if me and a bunch of my atheist buddies made sure to put a bunch of copies of The God Delusion and God is Not Great on your side of the room after being told you're a Christian, would you find that respectful? 'Cause trust me when I say that if I did it, "being respectful" would not be my intent.
I would giggle since I already own those books and am reading them...well, the God Delusion, I haven't started the other.
I certainly wouldn't take it as being disrespectful of my beliefs if we were friends.
I take it back, just because it makes me happy that you are reading those books. You can come puruse my atheist library any time you like.
I still don't think corgi's friends are "being respectful." I think they're acting like a-holes.
Quote from: Ali on January 10, 2012, 11:33:34 PM
I still don't think corgi's friends are "being respectful." I think they're acting like a-holes.
Depends. I can certainly see some Christians mocking an Atheist of their disbelief when outnumbered being in the bible belt, but what I don't hear from
corgilover is having specifically said to them to leave their beliefs to themselves. It sounds more like a quiet complaint between the like-minded on
corgilover's part rather than being exhausted of telling the friends to leave religion out of their daily dealings.
They are most likely curious about your atheism and probably don't understand what it is properly. If so fully engage with them in the conversations and be meticulous in your reasoning in a way that they can understand without being disrespectful or condescending, that way you will answer all their questions. If a person wants to talk to you at 2 in the morning about the subject they are most likely interested in some form or another. If you find it hard to express your thoughts in conversation compile a list of articles and videos that you agree with and get them to read and watch them.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on January 10, 2012, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Ali on January 10, 2012, 11:33:34 PM
I still don't think corgi's friends are "being respectful." I think they're acting like a-holes.
Depends. I can certainly see some Christians mocking an Atheist of their disbelief when outnumbered being in the bible belt, but what I don't hear from corgilover is having specifically said to them to leave their beliefs to themselves. It sounds more like a quiet complaint between the like-minded on corgilover's part rather than being exhausted of telling the friends to leave religion out of their daily dealings.
Haven't you ever heard that its impolite to talk religion or politics? Honestly, I don't think it should be on corgilover to have to explicitly say "Please stop pestering me about your beliefs"; it should be on his/her friends (sorry Corgi, I don't know if you're a him or a her) to understand that if Corgi wants to hear more about Christianity, s/he will ask.
I take the same principal with my religious friends; I never take it upon myself to start "preaching" my atheism to them. If they have questions, they ask, but otherwise I feel it would be disrespectful for me to start yakking away at them about my beliefs all the time.
Have you tried asking them nicely to stop being pushy?
I have a good number of vegan friends (I'll use them as an example since I really don't know many non-family christians anymore) and some of them are quite passionate about their reasons for being vegan; but they don't leave pamphlets about tortured baby chickens laying around and I don't leave pamphlets sitting around about how humans evolved to be omnivorous. We are friends for other reasons, we all know that in a mixed group of vegans and omnivores that you either don't bring up that topic or pick your words carefully if you do. I would think if your Christian friends really are your friends that they can learn to offer that same level of respect. It's fine if they want to ask questions but leaving bibles for your and constantly trying to push you to go to church is a bit much.
I don't know where you draw the line, is it disrespect or just curiosity about what an atheist thinks?
If it's the latter, than there are actually benefits to educating people on what isn't atheism is and more importantly, isn't.
They might see their attempted conversions as even necessary for your soul, so you should keep their possible motivations in mind but still firmly explain why it really isn't necessay. If they continue, then you should start treating it as a form of disrespect and act accordingly.
Well, what can I say. ::) I'm an accomodationist and see liberal Christians as allies. ::)
I don't have a problem being the only atheist among Xtian friends, since the subject of religion rarely comes up and when it does, I'm usually the one who mentions it. One time a devout friend thought I was converting because I'd been discussing forgiveness with him and he got all happy, but that was sorted out with a simple "not converting, just asking".
I like the idea of saying "no thanks", "I'm not interested", and "please stop talking to me until 8 a.m." until they roll off your tongue. I also like the idea, if you get tired of saying the same thing over and over, of putting those phrases on a small tape recorder and playing them to people as needed.
I don't think it's too much to expect people to understand not to be pushy talking about personal issues like religion, politics or sex (unless that's what everyone has gotten together for) but that goes out the window when those people have a "mission". It's not right, but you can't fight it either. Just hang in there, be polite and be repetitive: no thanks, I'm not interested . . .
Quote from: Whitney on January 11, 2012, 01:02:36 AM
Have you tried asking them nicely to stop being pushy?
I have a good number of vegan friends (I'll use them as an example since I really don't know many non-family christians anymore) and some of them are quite passionate about their reasons for being vegan; but they don't leave pamphlets about tortured baby chickens laying around and I don't leave pamphlets sitting around about how humans evolved to be omnivorous. We are friends for other reasons, we all know that in a mixed group of vegans and omnivores that you either don't bring up that topic or pick your words carefully if you do. I would think if your Christian friends really are your friends that they can learn to offer that same level of respect. It's fine if they want to ask questions but leaving bibles for your and constantly trying to push you to go to church is a bit much.
Wise
Quote from: Ali on January 11, 2012, 12:57:10 AM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on January 10, 2012, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Ali on January 10, 2012, 11:33:34 PM
I still don't think corgi's friends are "being respectful." I think they're acting like a-holes.
Depends. I can certainly see some Christians mocking an Atheist of their disbelief when outnumbered being in the bible belt, but what I don't hear from corgilover is having specifically said to them to leave their beliefs to themselves. It sounds more like a quiet complaint between the like-minded on corgilover's part rather than being exhausted of telling the friends to leave religion out of their daily dealings.
Haven't you ever heard that its impolite to talk religion or politics? Honestly, I don't think it should be on corgilover to have to explicitly say "Please stop pestering me about your beliefs"; it should be on his/her friends (sorry Corgi, I don't know if you're a him or a her) to understand that if Corgi wants to hear more about Christianity, s/he will ask.
I take the same principal with my religious friends; I never take it upon myself to start "preaching" my atheism to them. If they have questions, they ask, but otherwise I feel it would be disrespectful for me to start yakking away at them about my beliefs all the time.
Quite alright Ali, I thank you for not assuming I'm one specific gender.
When I was younger and lived on the West Coast, I was in the same situation, however this girl didn't care that I didn't go to Church. Of course I was ten and she was seven so life was more simple back then. I sometimes would attend her church functions to support her as she'd sing in the Choir. She'd in turn support me when I'd preform in plays.
Now that it's different, it's odd. I don't 'preach' my atheism and there have been times when I've been curious about what goes on at their youth group meetings but they're so fanatical about it that I don't ask.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on January 10, 2012, 08:52:27 PM
Define "respect my beliefs"...
"Shut the fuck up preaching at me" would probably sum it up. When I want to know I'll ask!
It goes both ways. corgilover does not push her views on her friends but they appear to feel it is perfectly acceptable to push their views on her. And the reason for that is that they have been taught to preach, proselytize and witness as part of their induction/indoctrination into Christianity. They have
not been taught it is right to respect that personal beliefs are
personal and are debated in public by mutual consent.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on January 10, 2012, 08:52:27 PM
Define "respect my beliefs"...
I has a reasonable definition of that, methink:
I equate respecting my beliefs to respecting my right to hold said beliefs. You may challenge them all you want, or challenge me for holding them. However, confronting aspects of me other than a particular belief
because of what I believe is disrespectful of said right.
I kinda see respecting beliefs as simply respecting that someone is entitled to have their own beliefs and not making it the prime focus of your relationship with that person to change their beliefs to your own...you may discuss related topics from time to time but in a civil friendly debate manner shaking hands at the end and being fine knowing your friend just doesn't agree on that topic. I think there are some beliefs that are so bad (evil, inhumane, immediately dangerous) that while I'd still recognize legal right to holding them I would not actually respect the person and would constantly be wanting to change their views if I were forced to hang around that person. So, "respecting beliefs" really is just a round about way of saying "respect the person." If a person has cruel beliefs they lose that respect. It's not like there are actually very many situations where you could not hold a belief yet still view it in high regard....I have come across the odd Chrsitian-Atheist but they are few and far between (or at least the self labeled ones are).
When I grew up (I guess I'm older than the hills, eh?) it was considered impolite to talk about religion or politics. And sex? Heck, we didn't even say the word in polite company! It was nobody's business. Ah, those were the days ... *hobbling off to go knit something in my rocking chair*
Quote from: Tank on January 11, 2012, 08:32:15 AM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on January 10, 2012, 08:52:27 PM
Define "respect my beliefs"...
"Shut the fuck up preaching at me" would probably sum it up. When I want to know I'll ask!
It goes both ways. corgilover does not push her views on her friends but they appear to feel it is perfectly acceptable to push their views on her. And the reason for that is that they have been taught to preach, proselytize and witness as part of their induction/indoctrination into Christianity. They have not been taught it is right to respect that personal beliefs are personal and are debated in public by mutual consent.
That's pretty much the best way it put it Tank.
Quote from: Whitney on January 11, 2012, 03:44:19 PM
I kinda see respecting beliefs as simply respecting that someone is entitled to have their own beliefs and not making it the prime focus of your relationship with that person to change their beliefs to your own...you may discuss related topics from time to time but in a civil friendly debate manner shaking hands at the end and being fine knowing your friend just doesn't agree on that topic.
I agree with Whitney's assessment. I've known some people who were on the complete opposite end of the political spectrum from me, yet we would have casual, fun arguments about our views because in the end we all respected each other and weren't trying the "convert" the other. It doesn't sound like that's what's happening here, though. Are they really trying to "convert" you, or do they just not know how to handle the situation because they've never known an atheist? Perhaps seeing that you're not some evil devil-worshiper will actually be illuminating to them.
Of course, I'm probably being overly optimistic. Hang in there, and feel free to come complain on the forum whenever you need to.
Quote from: Firebird on January 12, 2012, 03:08:03 AM
Are they really trying to "convert" you, or do they just not know how to handle the situation because they've never known an atheist? Perhaps seeing that you're not some evil devil-worshiper will actually be illuminating to them.
This. :)
Educating Christians (many of whom don't even know how ignorant they are in the first place) is always worthwhile. IMO there's a lot to be gained from people knowing what atheism isn't.
I'm lucky when it comes to friends being tolerant. We almost never talk about religion vs. atheism, but when we do, it's usually non serious banter. A boyfriend of one of the girls, however, always makes a point to say how wrong I am and that I am going to hell. It irritates not only me but all the other people in our group. Lately I have been just giving him a blank look and speaking in "tongues" (Swedish, he doesn't know the difference :D) He gives me a scared look and usually gets away from us. I seems to be working because he hasn't brought up religion in a week. ;D
You're so awesome, budhorse~
It 'sounds' to me as if they are trying to get your goat with perhaps a victory in store if you succumb to their invitations and 'gifts'. What we're not hearing is what is the relationship with your friends any other time they aren't bothering you. There is a whole slew of things you can do...
Go to their youth meetings and somewhere along the meeting stop it and ask why God gave them the attributes of reasoning and critical thinking, why does the same god ask them to give up those attributes.
Take a Bible from them and highlight all the bad stuff in it; contradictions and immorality/unethical stuff. It'll take a while, then give it back to them to answer all the highlights you have at one of their youth meetings.
You can respect their beliefs or not. You can respect them for their beliefs or not. You can ask them for no more intervention or not. You can friendly and quietly discuss their belief system or not. You can turn the tables on them every time they confront you with knowledge of the Bible they most likely would not have (assuming you take the time to read it). You can find new friends or not. It all depends on your comfort level.
But to answer your title question...
I work with 16 other guys in a small town south of the D/FW Metroplex in Texas. Odd as it may seem, there are four atheists. Myself and another are staunch atheists. The other two are those kinds of atheists that never talk atheism or religion or humanism and the like. Everyone except myself (light conservative) and the other staunch atheist (liberal) are conservatives. The odd part is religion and politics never come up.
The last time one of the Christian guys confronted me was just before Christmas a year ago. In front of everyone, he asked if I celebrated Christmas; I answered no. He then asked if I put up (or will be putting up) a Christmas tree. I answered that I did not, but will putting up a Pagan tree, just like him. He then told me that if I put up a tree, I'm celebrating Christmas. I told him that if he stays up past midnight on New Years Eve reading a book in bed that he is celebrating New Years. And then told him that if he let his kids dress up in non threatening/scary costume and let them go to church for Halloween, despite the sign in the front of the church that said "Autumn Festival", he was celebrating a Pagan festival. He got the point and shut up.
I just turn the tables on them. They leave me alone when it comes to religion.
next time they ask you about your atheism, just ask them if they believe Zeus, the king of the gods, exists. If they say 'no', then tell them that's how you feel about their god Yahweh. Simples.
I'm in a similar situation as the op, rural midwestern university with Xtian friends and an honors college called "Christ College" :-\
I just silently when they talk about their youth groups and going to chapel and whatnot, and they don't usually ask me anything or try to convert me. Tough situation though, because you want your rights and you want to keep your friends. I had one friend tell me on facebook that I should really just keep my opinions to myself, but I just ignored it because I'm not out to make enemies.
Hopefully some day general acceptance will come, at least it's more likely to happen in our generation than someone older's.
thankfully here in the UK, overt Christians are a rare breed. I don't have a single Christian friend, and I have plenty of friends. My girlfriend's parents are quite religious though (thankfully she's not) and the first time I ever met them her dad cornered me and asked me if I believed in 'God'. I replied 'No' and told him that so long as one tried to live a good life and tried not to harm others then I don't think it matters if one believes in a god or not. I think once you give someone that answer they just look like a complete tool if they still try to insist that you should believe in their god.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on January 13, 2012, 05:08:16 PM
thankfully here in the UK, overt Christians are a rare breed. I don't have a single Christian friend, and I have plenty of friends. My girlfriend's parents are quite religious though (thankfully she's not) and the first time I ever met them her dad cornered me and asked me if I believed in 'God'. I replied 'No' and told him that so long as one tried to live a good life and tried not to harm others then I don't think it matters if one believes in a god or not. I think once you give someone that answer they just look like a complete tool if they still try to insist that you should believe in their god.
Tease! What was his reaction?
Quote from: Tank on January 13, 2012, 05:10:04 PM
Tease! What was his reaction?
to be fair to him, he's a really nice guy, and he's been fine with me and never brought up the subject of religion or god again. I think my girlfriend was worried I might verbally lay into him and start tearing his beliefs apart, but I kind of figure your girlfriend's parents are people you should be polite to, and humour their eccentricities ;)
Quote from: Too Few Lions on January 13, 2012, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: Tank on January 13, 2012, 05:10:04 PM
Tease! What was his reaction?
to be fair to him, he's a really nice guy, and he's been fine with me and never brought up the subject of religion or god again. I think my girlfriend was worried I might verbally lay into him and start tearing his beliefs apart, but I kind of figure your girlfriend's parents are people you should be polite to, and humour their eccentricities ;)
I agree, I think you did exactly the right thing.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on January 13, 2012, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: Tank on January 13, 2012, 05:10:04 PM
Tease! What was his reaction?
to be fair to him, he's a really nice guy, and he's been fine with me and never brought up the subject of religion or god again. I think my girlfriend was worried I might verbally lay into him and start tearing his beliefs apart, but I kind of figure your girlfriend's parents are people you should be polite to, and humour their eccentricities ;)
You have more patience than I. My gf's mom is christian, but luckily has never brought up any religious stuff with me.
Once we did say grace at the table. I just stared at my gf and sang the chocobo song in my head.
Quotee: How do you handle
It is a nightmare for me. Everyone around me in work believes in God, in the evil eye, i the zodiac and ... witches
yes
I have to hear them talk about those subjects everyday and I wish I could say I find it funny but I dont
I find it extremely annoying, but I manage to keep silent
I stay away from their chats, and I think they know enough to eave me out of it but oh heavenly spaghetti the bull crap I keep hearing!!
The friends my wife and I have don't talk about religion. It just doesn't come up. We also blend in pretty well I guess. We celebrate Christmas, and even hosted a Christmas party. You just won't find a nativity scene at our house. Somehow it always comes up once, so they all know I am a non-believer, but they're okay with that and not intent to convert. I've been pleasantly surprised. The biggest problems we've had with Christians have been the new neighbors. They came to our house to invite us to Thursday night Bible study at their house. I politely declined, letting them know I don't attend church or believe in gods. Now they are careful to keep their children away from our house and won't talk to me outside when I say hi while doing yard work. That only amuses me, however. They made one comment when they saw my Christmas lights. To save space and money on lights I spelled "Merry Xmas." The man made a comment that it's a shame when people don't keep Christ in Christmas. I pointed at his house and said, "All your passionate beliefs... where the fuck are YOUR decorations?" He didn't do one bit of decorating, and he was picking on my decorations! What a spaz.
Where was I? Oh yeah... I don't have problems with Christian friends. We all get along pretty well.