I am not an atheist or a strict follower of any religion, although I do believe in such concepts as free-will, the after-life, a spiritual realm, and consequences for our decisions after death. I did study science in college, and do enjoy it, but find it's applications limited. It bothers me that so many people somehow reach the conclusion that science can be some ultimate explanation for everything. I'm happy to discuss how this is a false belief, and why I have my beliefs.
I don't think many people here would think science is the ultimate explanation of everything, not yet anyway.
Their There is a rule here that you can't start controversial discussions until you've completed ten posts, this sounds controversial and possibly provocative.
Anyway welcome, Light.
Morning Light
I had wondered when you joined up a little while ago if you were the owner of Rational Skepticism, who goesbe he same name. Obviously that isn't the case. As The Magic Pudding has pointd out we won't be getting into any deep discussion just yet.
Thanks for making the effort to sign up and join in.
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Regards
Chris
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Where did you get your username from? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0)
10 Things About Yourself (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4940.0)
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Non-religious pet peeves (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6917.0)
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Favorite Song, with video (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8830.0)
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Quote from: The Magic Pudding on December 21, 2011, 07:20:57 AM
Their is a rule here that you can't start controversial discussions until you've completed ten posts, this sounds controversial and possibly provocative.
Yep, we need to get to know one another before the insults fly. ;)
Welcome, Light!
Hello and welcome to HAF,
Light.
Quote from: Light on December 21, 2011, 06:03:10 AMI did study science in college, and do enjoy it, but find it's applications limited.
Agreed; science is limited to the study of our universe and the things that exist in it.
Quote from: Light on December 21, 2011, 06:03:10 AMIt bothers me that so many people somehow reach the conclusion that science can be some ultimate explanation for everything.
Again agreed; science doesn't attempt to be an ultimate explanation for everything— it is an attempt to accurately describe and understand the phenomena we perceive around us. Those who would seek an "ultimate explanation for everything" in science are misunderstanding its purpose on a fundamental level.
Quote from: Light on December 21, 2011, 06:03:10 AMI'm happy to discuss how this is a false belief, and why I have my beliefs.
It's reasonable to conjecture that you hold your beliefs either because they were inculcated in you since childhood, or because you had a revelation, or as a result of a personal quest for spiritual understanding, or a combination of the above. I'm happy to wait until you have graduated from the "Getting to Know You" section to hear more.
I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg830.imageshack.us%2Fimg830%2F860%2Fsmilew.gif&hash=8238eab24d16418eb1c8cd60d971239ab1363c74)
Welcome!
As has been pointed out, science isn't the ultimate explanation for everything. It's a tool for figuring out how things work in the natural universe. Kind of limited as a philosophy.
Welcome! At first glance, you seem reasonable enough... And here The Asmo was hoping for someone to bite :(
Quote from: Asmodean on December 21, 2011, 02:41:06 PM
Welcome! At first glance, you seem reasonable enough... And here The Asmo was hoping for someone to bite
Maybe you can just gum him/her a little?
To OP: Welcome!
I think you'll find that most atheists don't really treat science as a "religion", or even the best philosophy for living their day to day lives. It's just a proven and useful tool. I'm sure, once you get past the probationary period, there'll be good chats about it :)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on December 21, 2011, 02:44:47 PM
Maybe you can just gum him/her a little?
Hm... Mebbe so. Just a little bit. Gnaw on a toe a little or something.
welcome to the forum Light
Don't mind Asmo, his bark is worse than his bite ;)
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 21, 2011, 05:06:06 PM
Don't mind Asmo, his bark is worse than his bite ;)
That's because Tank is fast... And everywhere :-\ At the same time, too. He trollbranded The Asmo's fan thread, you know. He DID. Did, I tell you. And have you SEEN his post count?! :P
(It's true, actually, I usually only bite those who deserve to be bitten, and my standards for deserving it are reasonably high)
Wow, thank you all for the welcomes.
And I say wow, because I can already tell that the attitude here is much better than other unnamed atheist forums I've been to. I like to discuss philosophy, on forums, since, there's really no one in my life who really gets into that talk much.
Also, I'm not here to compete with anyone, simply offer some insights, and in that process I'm sure I will gain many myself. But, yeah, I do look forward to having some good discussions in the future here.
Glad to already see that people are open to more ideas than just strict science, which hasn't been the case in my experience talking to other atheists. So that's good, I have a pretty open-mind myself, so I don't just quote scripture and what not to try to get my points across.
That's all for now.....
Just don't expect not to be challenged, though people are more civil here than on other atheist forums. We even have a couple of regular Christian users. ;D
Most of the objections people have are when people try to undermine facts with religion, such as the popular 'teach the controversy' movement that creationists promote over evolutionary theory. Though science isn't the ultimate explanation for things, choosing what are facts is not a democratic process. Something that they don't seem to understand. ::)
But that's just an example of why people defend science over religion - when it undermines facts and confuses the self-correcting process that is peer-reviewed scientific method with laypeople voting for what they believe are good facts for whatever reason and interfering with teaching science because of their beliefs. It can be incredibly frustrating to see people do that :P I personally see religion as a retardant, and gets in the way of finding real solutions, when science is better equipped to do that, it it isn't a code of conduct or philosophy to live by. ::) It's just a tool.
I don't know how you see these things, but once you reach 10 posts, I'd be interested in reading your views.
I welcome challenges. Because, I've found, that whenever I get into good debates with people, even if at the end we still don't agree, I almost always walk away feeling like I've learned something.
And yes, I do see the benefits of the scientific method, but I also see it's intrinsic limitations.
Much of religion and spirituality is based on rationalistic ideas, but so are many aspects of science, and so I don't see science as a completely unique approach to knowledge, separate from all else.
I also consider personal experience alone to be valid evidence in some cases, but that I'll have to go into later.
I just wanted to also add, that I chose the name Light because of the spiritual ideas associated with it, but also because I find the properties of light, to be philosophically intriguing, but I will go more into that another time.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 21, 2011, 07:30:25 PMpersonally see religion as a retardant, and gets in the way of finding real solutions, when science is better equipped to do that, it it isn't a code of conduct or philosophy to live by. ::) It's just a tool.
I like that retardant word.
Welcome Light
Thanks.
Quote from: Crocoduck on December 23, 2011, 05:42:28 AM
Welcome Light
Would that the European name for Diet Welcome?
Science seeks to systematically explain phenomena but I think we can all acknowledge that there are mysteries in the universe. While I don't believe in God or Jesus (or any creator) and can't have blind faith, I also believe there is an afterlife. This is due to things I have experienced, not just because it says to believe it in a book. With any religion (or lack thereof), there's great diversity in beliefs. Welcome.
Quote from: Light on December 21, 2011, 09:01:39 PM
And yes, I do see the benefits of the scientific method, but I also see it's intrinsic limitations.
Please, could you tell me what Limitations do you see?
Thanks,
Happy
Quote from: Happy_Is_Good on December 27, 2011, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Light on December 21, 2011, 09:01:39 PM
And yes, I do see the benefits of the scientific method, but I also see it's intrinsic limitations.
Please, could you tell me what Limitations do you see?
Thanks,
Happy
Light came, was shown the 'light' and appears to have 'flounced', so I doubt you'll get a reply.
Quote from: Tank on December 27, 2011, 06:09:43 PM
Light came, was shown the 'light' and appears to have 'flounced', so I doubt you'll get a reply.
Maybe The Asmo's light-eating darkness scared him/her off :P
OP, What is the foundational basis of your truth source ... is it an objective one or subjective ? I think science which is essentially discovery of all things, has to be held loosely since they are always modifiying, updating, adding, deleting, and so forth as time goes on . Personally, black coffee BETTER be ok to drink cause i aint giving that up ! Which leads to the question....What do we ultimately put our trust in ?
Quote from: Light on December 21, 2011, 06:03:10 AM
I did study science in college, and do enjoy it, but find it's applications limited. It bothers me that so many people somehow reach the conclusion that science can be some ultimate explanation for everything.
It bothers you that so many people somehow need a conclusive ultimate explanation for everything, because it is bothering and you like me are "the people". I have distilled the range and activity of belief/faith to its bare necessity which haσ to do with self confidence and optimism. The rest is self-indulging fantasy which is for amusement and recreation. Getting over mourning, or alcohol addiction needs this type of recreation, artistic transendence
Here is a hymn/prayer to show you what I think you are talking about
I believe in the womb Earth,
Grand Mother of Life
Living Sphere
Toiling Troposphere that Holds
Human root, divine consciousness
I believe in the Light Star
The regulator Sun
Shining donator of energy and route
Leading composer of atoms
And in the depth of time collector of all here
Merger for a denser structure
I believe in the black Heart of the Galaxy
Gigantic indescribable attraction
Unending Vent, hole of "black"
Envoy to our Stars, the Galaxy nation
Suggesting all the star nations
Colors, Rays and Gases
Waves and Energies which variably oscillate
The multiple entities, as far as pulsars and quasars
As deep as exotic particles,
Bosons, Fermions, Neutrinos
All the other creatures in the circus of Existence
I believe in Black Energy
Black Matter's accomplice
Vehicle balance of Existence
Gate of dimensions, and Indefinable.
I believe in that which I cannot learn
I believe in the wrinkles of this Existence
Above analysis and understanding
And grateful I share and honor
Breathing still.
Πυθέας Nov 2009
I, too, have a background in the sciences.
I'm new to Atheism and have wondered similar things to your original post.
I find it amazing how insightful the members here are!
Science wont explain everything.not yet atleast
Welcome to the forum! I have no science background myself but have been learning more and more since I finally let god go, I wouldn't say it answers everything yet but it's the structure of science and it's ability to adjust views based on observations and constants that gives me more hope than any religions have offered me. Seems much easier for me to believe that we're based on a lottery of life rather than an intelligently created universe.
Enjoy your stay.
Quote from: werewolf on May 03, 2012, 03:55:01 PM
Science wont explain everything.not yet atleast
I'm not sure it's meant to, since it's necessarily limited to what can be measured and studied.