Thank you all for the warm welcome. Like I said, I'm here basically to learn more about you. I don't want to start any fights, but then in the other atheist forums I've been in, that never really mattered. They were exceptionally rude and vicious in their attacks, breaking their own rules without any compunction and eventually banning me when I wouldn't back down.
I don't return evil for evil, but I don't back down, and I will tell it like it is. If you call it "preaching", that's your prerogative.
Someone asked me to tell you something about myself, so I will.
I hate atheism. I do. I don't hate atheists; I pity them as victims of atheism, which I see as a satanic plot in these latter days that Jesus spoke about. I write for my blog "The Believers' Revolt." (It would definitely be against the rules to post a link for it, but you can Google it if you want.) I am working on a book about atheism, and when I have finished that, I intend to write science fiction with Christian slant, kind of like "The Matrix."
I look forward to talking with you all.
Take care,
Edward
P.S. Does anyone know when I'll be able to create a profile in this forum?
10 posts opens a lot of doors ;D
As a matter of interest this isn't your average atheist forum, which is why I joined and in due course accepted the offer of going on staff. I frequented Richard Dawkins Forum (RDF) before that imploded and also RationalSceptisim where most of the active RDF members ended up. I don't post at Rat Skep any more as they treat theists as the light entertainment refering to them as 'chew toys'. So I wouldn't be worried that are going to be abused, however your ideas will come in for appropriate comments.
Quote from: Egor on December 09, 2011, 07:16:24 PM
Thank you all for the warm welcome. Like I said, I'm here basically to learn more about you. I don't want to start any fights, but then in the other atheist forums I've been in, that never really mattered. They were exceptionally rude and vicious in their attacks, breaking their own rules without any compunction and eventually banning me when I wouldn't back down.
I don't return evil for evil, but I don't back down, and I will tell it like it is. If you call it "preaching", that's your prerogative.
Someone asked me to tell you something about myself, so I will.
I hate atheism. I do. I don't hate atheists; I pity them as victims of atheism, which I see as a satanic plot in these latter days that Jesus spoke about. I write for my blog "The Believers' Revolt." (It would definitely be against the rules to post a link for it, but you can Google it if you want.) I am working on a book about atheism, and when I have finished that, I intend to write science fiction with Christian slant, kind of like "The Matrix."
I look forward to talking with you all.
Take care,
Edward
P.S. Does anyone know when I'll be able to create a profile in this forum?
Touché, Ed
Profile after 10 posts. And we'll also have to save the responses to your last post until then too.
If you have already formed your opinions about atheism and atheists then what are you doing here? Your pity really is unnecessary, but thanks all the same.
What sci-fi authors do you like?
Quote from: Egor on December 09, 2011, 07:16:24 PM
Thank you all for the warm welcome. Like I said, I'm here basically to learn more about you. I don't want to start any fights, but then in the other atheist forums I've been in, that never really mattered. They were exceptionally rude and vicious in their attacks, breaking their own rules without any compunction and eventually banning me when I wouldn't back down.
I don't return evil for evil, but I don't back down, and I will tell it like it is. If you call it "preaching", that's your prerogative.
Someone asked me to tell you something about myself, so I will.
I hate atheism. I do. I don't hate atheists; I pity them as victims of atheism, which I see as a satanic plot in these latter days that Jesus spoke about. I write for my blog "The Believers' Revolt." (It would definitely be against the rules to post a link for it, but you can Google it if you want.) I am working on a book about atheism, and when I have finished that, I intend to write science fiction with Christian slant, kind of like "The Matrix."
I look forward to talking with you all.
Take care,
Edward
P.S. Does anyone know when I'll be able to create a profile in this forum?
That would be me who asked, even though I kind of meant hobbies, family, etc. I think you will find that some of our members can be equally, if not more, headstrong in debates. Meaning, they won't back down either. I am sorry that you have had problems with atheist forums in the past. As far as I know, that doesn't happen here.
Preaching, if I have the right idea, is somebody coming on to this forum trying to convert us into a religion, or telling us we are going to burn forever in Hell. That tends to annoy
most all of our members, even the religious ones.
Looking forward to speaking with you more. You can fix up your profile more after you reach ten posts.
Have a nice day,
Buddy
I apologize if I'm not the most eloquent person. I have never been able to transfer my thoughts to writing without it being a jumbled mess.
@Egor: Just don't do the same kind of things you did on the other forums (starting off by calling all atheists "monsters", not engaging in the discussions and showing a persecution complex), and you'll be fine here.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 07:33:26 PM
I apologize if I'm not the most eloquent person. I have never been able to transfer my thoughts to writing without it being a jumbled mess.
I have no problems understanding your posts at all. You do fine.
Quote from: Davin on December 09, 2011, 07:37:47 PM
@Egor: Just don't do the same kind of things you did on the other forums (starting off by calling all atheists "monsters", not engaging in the discussions and showing a persecution complex), and you'll be fine here.
Have you come across Egor elswhere?
When he said that he wanted to study us, it made me feel like an animal in the wild... can I be a penguin?
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 07:33:26 PM
I apologize if I'm not the most eloquent person. I have never been able to transfer my thoughts to writing without it being a jumbled mess.
I have no problems understanding your posts at all. You do fine.
Thanks.
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 07:43:44 PM
Quote from: Davin on December 09, 2011, 07:37:47 PM
@Egor: Just don't do the same kind of things you did on the other forums (starting off by calling all atheists "monsters", not engaging in the discussions and showing a persecution complex), and you'll be fine here.
Have you come across Egor elswhere?
Yep, same user name, same blog, same language structure and word choices. Also went by Gordon or Edward Gordon. I behave differently in different forums, so I'll hold my judgment on how Egor behaves himself here, I'm just giving him some advice to avoid getting banned here.
Quote from: Davin on December 09, 2011, 07:56:00 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 07:43:44 PM
Quote from: Davin on December 09, 2011, 07:37:47 PM
@Egor: Just don't do the same kind of things you did on the other forums (starting off by calling all atheists "monsters", not engaging in the discussions and showing a persecution complex), and you'll be fine here.
Have you come across Egor elswhere?
Yep, same user name, same blog, same language structure and word choices. Also went by Gordon or Edward Gordon. I behave differently in different forums, so I'll hold my judgment on how Egor behaves himself here, I'm just giving him some advice to avoid getting banned here.
Thanks.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 07:33:26 PM
I apologize if I'm not the most eloquent person. I have never been able to transfer my thoughts to writing without it being a jumbled mess.
I always understand your posts just fine. Is your nickname really Buddy?
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 08:00:41 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 07:33:26 PM
I apologize if I'm not the most eloquent person. I have never been able to transfer my thoughts to writing without it being a jumbled mess.
I always understand your posts just fine. Is your nickname really Buddy?
Thanks. English has never been my strongest subject so I always doubt myself.
Yeah, I don't really like my real name and my mom started joking about just calling me Buddy and it stuck. :D
Edward the Theist returns!
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 08:50:05 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 08:46:38 PM
Edward the Theist returns!
Is he on?
Edward the Theist is the name Egor went by when he was here earlier. I just want Edward to confirm which account he want's to continue using so I can close the other.
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 08:54:16 PM
Edward the Theist returns!
I apologize. I didn't realize I was here under that name before, that's why now I only go by Egor, and if I'm banned, I keep track and don't go back. Again, I'm not trying to sockpuppet, and in fact, I wouldn't know the password for Edward the Theist now even if I wanted to use it.
But, you can ban me if you like, and I wouldn't even write it up in my blog. Or we can see how it goes. I'd like to see how it goes.
Quote
Edward the Theist is the name Egor went by when he was here earlier. I just want Edward to confirm which account he want's to continue using so I can close the other.
If at all possible, I'd like to use Egor.
So Egor, seven more posts until you can ask us the big questions. Anything you want to talk about until then? Favorite move, what's for dinner, the thread count on your sheets. ;D
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:05:03 PM
So Egor, seven more posts until you can ask us the big questions. Anything you want to talk about until then? Favorite move, what's for dinner, the thread count on your sheets. ;D
Ohhh, I have a strong opinion on this! 600 thread count, minimum, or I don't buy them. I've been told it doesn't really make any difference, but it feels different to me and it's good enough to be worth the extra money.
Quote from: egorBut, you can ban me if you like, and I wouldn't even write it up in my blog. Or we can see how it goes. I'd like to see how it goes.
Oh for goodness sake, Ed, unclench. You'll find your self-fulfilling prophesies fulfilling themselves a good deal less.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:05:03 PM
So Egor, seven more posts until you can ask us the big questions. Anything you want to talk about until then? Favorite move, what's for dinner, the thread count on your sheets. ;D
Ohhh, I have a strong opinion on this! 600 thread count, minimum, or I don't buy them. I've been told it doesn't really make any difference, but it feels different to me and it's good enough to be worth the extra money.
I'd have to check the tag, but I think mine are 800. I'm not to picky on sheets. My dog, on the other hand, prefers the more plush sheets.
Quote from: Egor on December 09, 2011, 07:16:24 PM
I hate atheism. I do. I don't hate atheists; I pity them as victims of atheism, which I see as a satanic plot in these latter days that Jesus spoke about.
oh dear, I don't think anyone here considers themselves a 'victim of atheism', it's a rational choice based on evidence. I don't think we can debate this sort of thing too much in the intro section, get yourself up to 10 posts by telling us a bit more about your life outside of your religious beliefs, or by posting things in the laid back lounge, then you can get onto the heavier stuff.
must go, I've got a talking serpent on my shoulder telling me what to do...
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft264%2FDaPoe%2FLarge%2520Smileys%2Fdevil.gif&hash=0a8a5b4c4e406b2b0f02dbf463c28a67e3a35f28)
Quote from: Egor on December 09, 2011, 09:02:11 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 08:54:16 PM
Edward the Theist returns!
I apologize. I didn't realize I was here under that name before, that's why now I only go by Egor, and if I'm banned, I keep track and don't go back. Again, I'm not trying to sockpuppet, and in fact, I wouldn't know the password for Edward the Theist now even if I wanted to use it.
But, you can ban me if you like, and I wouldn't even write it up in my blog. Or we can see how it goes. I'd like to see how it goes.
Quote
Edward the Theist is the name Egor went by when he was here earlier. I just want Edward to confirm which account he want's to continue using so I can close the other.
If at all possible, I'd like to use Egor.
Well you were not banned as Edward the Theist so there is no need to ban you as Egor for that. However the rules have not changed here in any significant way since you were last here so why all the whining about them when you'd been here before? I'll close Edward The Theist account and you can continue as Egor.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:16:36 PM
I'd have to check the tag, but I think mine are 800. I'm not to picky on sheets. My dog, on the other hand, prefers the more plush sheets.
My cat Deirdre has all sorts of soft things to curl up on, including a thermal blanket, but it's the sheets she always sleeps on. They know.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:11:57 PM
{snip}
Oh for goodness sake, Ed, unclench. You'll find your self-fulfilling prophesies fulfilling themselves a good deal less.
Well said BCE.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:33:22 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:16:36 PM
I'd have to check the tag, but I think mine are 800. I'm not to picky on sheets. My dog, on the other hand, prefers the more plush sheets.
My cat Deirdre has all sorts of soft things to curl up on, including a thermal blanket, but it's the sheets she always sleeps on. They know.
Mom's cat is a dilute longhaired calico cat, and for some odd reason, she refuses to sleep on anything unless it is black. We go through many lint rollers.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:39:31 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:33:22 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:16:36 PM
I'd have to check the tag, but I think mine are 800. I'm not to picky on sheets. My dog, on the other hand, prefers the more plush sheets.
My cat Deirdre has all sorts of soft things to curl up on, including a thermal blanket, but it's the sheets she always sleeps on. They know.
Mom's cat is a dilute longhaired calico cat, and for some odd reason, she refuses to sleep on anything unless it is black. We go through many lint rollers.
You could always dye the cat black (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg43.imageshack.us%2Fimg43%2F4330%2Fgring.gif&hash=636178b2f4403fbb79bac6871d86223491c20eb4)
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: egorBut, you can ban me if you like, and I wouldn't even write it up in my blog. Or we can see how it goes. I'd like to see how it goes.
Oh for goodness sake, Ed, unclench. You'll find your self-fulfilling prophesies fulfilling themselves a good deal less.
^ ;D
Best behaviour everyone or we'll get sent to the Naughty-Blog...
Come on Ed, it's easy. Just pretend like we're normal people and you'll get the hang of us Atheists in no time.
Now, smalltalk first...
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:39:31 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:33:22 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:16:36 PM
I'd have to check the tag, but I think mine are 800. I'm not to picky on sheets. My dog, on the other hand, prefers the more plush sheets.
My cat Deirdre has all sorts of soft things to curl up on, including a thermal blanket, but it's the sheets she always sleeps on. They know.
Mom's cat is a dilute longhaired calico cat, and for some odd reason, she refuses to sleep on anything unless it is black. We go through many lint rollers.
You could always dye the cat black (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg43.imageshack.us%2Fimg43%2F4330%2Fgring.gif&hash=636178b2f4403fbb79bac6871d86223491c20eb4)
Yea, then Mom would skin me alive (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.deviantart.net%2Favatars%2Fi%2Fm%2Fimhorrifiedaruplz.jpg%3F1&hash=63fb36922f5eb9f1079a1c58cd1ea31f2ff208c6)
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 09:34:25 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:11:57 PM
{snip}
Oh for goodness sake, Ed, unclench. You'll find your self-fulfilling prophesies fulfilling themselves a good deal less.
Well said BCE.
Thanks. I've got 3 more days of being able to use the "meds made me do it" excuse -- I think I should start rationing them. The excuses, not the meds.
You know, I'm a little put off about Egor not wanting to talk to us. We talked about sheets for FSM sake, how unthreatening is that? :(
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:55:05 PMYou know, I'm a little put off about Egor not wanting to talk to us. We talked about sheets for FSM sake, how unthreatening is that? :(
Don't feel too bad.
Egor has a very low opinion of atheists. To quote his blog:
Quote from: EgorAtheists are extremely rude and vulgar.
I really doubt that he's here to socialize.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:55:05 PM
how unthreatening is that? :(
...And The Asmo is not all over the newbie. How unthreatening is THAT?! ;D
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:39:31 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:33:22 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:16:36 PM
I'd have to check the tag, but I think mine are 800. I'm not to picky on sheets. My dog, on the other hand, prefers the more plush sheets.
My cat Deirdre has all sorts of soft things to curl up on, including a thermal blanket, but it's the sheets she always sleeps on. They know.
Mom's cat is a dilute longhaired calico cat, and for some odd reason, she refuses to sleep on anything unless it is black. We go through many lint rollers.
You could always dye the cat black (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg43.imageshack.us%2Fimg43%2F4330%2Fgring.gif&hash=636178b2f4403fbb79bac6871d86223491c20eb4)
Yea, then Mom would skin me alive (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.deviantart.net%2Favatars%2Fi%2Fm%2Fimhorrifiedaruplz.jpg%3F1&hash=63fb36922f5eb9f1079a1c58cd1ea31f2ff208c6)
To say nothing of what the cat would do.
Quote from: Recusant on December 09, 2011, 10:09:01 PM
Don't feel too bad. Egor has a very low opinion of atheists. To quote his blog:
Quote from: EgorAtheists are extremely rude and vulgar.
.
Yeah and if he is the same Egor as the Egor on another Atheist forum I'm a member of then he won't be devoid in any way of the rudeness he's accusing us of having.
When I was a Christian I remember a sermon once that said when you point your finger at someone there are three more pointing back at you, words of wisdom to remember before you continue here Egor.
Quote from: Asmodean on December 09, 2011, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:55:05 PM
how unthreatening is that? :(
...And The Asmo is not all over the newbie. How unthreatening is THAT?! ;D
You haven't even offered to eat his children yet, I'm really impressed.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 10:17:10 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 09, 2011, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:55:05 PM
how unthreatening is that? :(
...And The Asmo is not all over the newbie. How unthreatening is THAT?! ;D
You haven't even offered to eat his children yet, I'm really impressed.
...Mostly due to low expextations.
Quote from: Asmodean on December 09, 2011, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:55:05 PM
how unthreatening is that? :(
...And The Asmo is not all over the newbie. How unthreatening is THAT?! ;D
I was wondering where you slunk off to ;D
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
Yea, then Mom would skin me alive (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.deviantart.net%2Favatars%2Fi%2Fm%2Fimhorrifiedaruplz.jpg%3F1&hash=63fb36922f5eb9f1079a1c58cd1ea31f2ff208c6)
To say nothing of what the cat would do.
I'm not too worried about the cat, she sometimes hops in the shower and lays there while it is running.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 10:25:09 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
Yea, then Mom would skin me alive (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.deviantart.net%2Favatars%2Fi%2Fm%2Fimhorrifiedaruplz.jpg%3F1&hash=63fb36922f5eb9f1079a1c58cd1ea31f2ff208c6)
To say nothing of what the cat would do.
I'm not too worried about the cat, she sometimes hops in the shower and lays there while it is running.
Now that is definitely weird behavior. Mine will stare at a tub of water like she's hypnotized, but she won't dip so much as a paw in it.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 10:22:42 PM
I was wondering where you slunk off to ;D
Oh, The Asmo is trying out this mantis shrimp thing. He sits in his burrow and waits and watches.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 10:28:11 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 10:25:09 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
Yea, then Mom would skin me alive (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.deviantart.net%2Favatars%2Fi%2Fm%2Fimhorrifiedaruplz.jpg%3F1&hash=63fb36922f5eb9f1079a1c58cd1ea31f2ff208c6)
To say nothing of what the cat would do.
I'm not too worried about the cat, she sometimes hops in the shower and lays there while it is running.
Now that is definitely weird behavior. Mine will stare at a tub of water like she's hypnotized, but she won't dip so much as a paw in it.
I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with this cat. She is so weird. :D
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 10:35:29 PM
I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with this cat. She is so weird. :D
Nothng wrong with weird!
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 10:36:48 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 09, 2011, 10:35:29 PM
I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with this cat. She is so weird. :D
Nothng wrong with weird!
True, true.
Quote from: Egor on December 09, 2011, 07:16:24 PMI am working on a book about atheism...
This doesn't sound like a good idea.
From what I've read here as Egor's past starts to trickle out little by little, it's sounding to me like he's a very enthusiastic Xian with a fairly well established bias against atheists. This suggests little or no real insight into atheism or atheists as people so writing a book on the subject would be like me writing a book on what its like to be an NFL quarterback and doing so from an irrational position of hating NFL quarterbacks to begin with.
I know what an NFL quarterback is and what he does and I can look up his career stats but I have no idea what it's like to actually be an NFL quarterback but, man, they suck and I want the world to know it!
I'd stick with the Xian sci-fi
Quote from: Egor on December 09, 2011, 07:16:24 PM
I hate atheism. I do.
S'okay. There are many people who hate Christianity.
Personally, I've never been one to expend energy "hating" much of anything, if I can help it. It's exhausting.
Also, you still seem very, very anxious about getting banned, though no one has yet threatened to ban you. Here, have a puppy.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.messengertools.net%2Fdogs%2Fpuppy.gif&hash=300f5e0613910273b03d00d8bf077e26b4f10eb1)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on December 10, 2011, 12:08:39 AMHere, have a puppy.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.messengertools.net%2Fdogs%2Fpuppy.gif&hash=300f5e0613910273b03d00d8bf077e26b4f10eb1)
I don't like the look in that puppy's eyes, I think he's atheist. Probably best we kill him just to be sure.
Quote from: MadBomr101 on December 10, 2011, 12:17:14 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on December 10, 2011, 12:08:39 AMHere, have a puppy.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.messengertools.net%2Fdogs%2Fpuppy.gif&hash=300f5e0613910273b03d00d8bf077e26b4f10eb1)
I don't like the look in that puppy's eyes, I think he's atheist. Probably best we kill him just to be sure.
I agree, put that thing out of its misery :P
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 10, 2011, 12:18:37 AM
Quote from: MadBomr101 on December 10, 2011, 12:17:14 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on December 10, 2011, 12:08:39 AMHere, have a puppy.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.messengertools.net%2Fdogs%2Fpuppy.gif&hash=300f5e0613910273b03d00d8bf077e26b4f10eb1)
I don't like the look in that puppy's eyes, I think he's atheist. Probably best we kill him just to be sure.
I agree, put that thing out of its misery :P
Oh now, leave that poor pup alone -- I'm sure it'll grow out of whatever is wrong with its eyes.
I'm stealing the dog.
It reminds me of a buggy-eyed chihuahua :P :D
Add a mustache to it, make it smaller and it reminds me of...oh nevermind ;D
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 09:26:29 PM
Well you were not banned as Edward the Theist so there is no need to ban you as Egor for that. However the rules have not changed here in any significant way since you were last here so why all the whining about them when you'd been here before? I'll close Edward The Theist account and you can continue as Egor.
Sorry about that. I've been in a lot of groups and I get them confused. Anyway, I'm glad to be back; thanks for having me here.
And I would like to make something clear to all--I don't hate atheists as people. I hate atheism. Probably in the same way you hate Christianity, but not individual Christians.
As for my beliefs, I'm not a traditional Christian, neither Protestant nor Catholic. Here's some of the more unusual ones that tend to separate me:
I don't believe the entire Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I believe the New Testament Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are the only works that are the inerrant Word of God. I consider the other books of the King James Bible to be commentary on the Gospels or in the case of the Old Testament, a historical reference for the Gospels.
That means, I'm not going to argue or defend Leviticus or Genesis.
I believe in evolution and natural selection, but I believe it is a system of order that actually proves the existence of God.
I believe that only those who reject Christ go to hell, not people who don't know about Jesus Christ or grow up in a different culture. For those people, I don't know what God's plan is, because Jesus doesn't talk about it.
I am not anti-gay, because Jesus doesn't talk about it.
I am not right wing or left wing. I'm pretty radical about certain ideas from both camps, because Jesus was.
I consider Jesus Christ to be the revelation of God to mankind. There may be other revelations, like Hercules or Vishnu, but I believe Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved.
I believe all of us are imperfect and deserve hell. By faith in Jesus Christ, we are saved from hell by grace. And it makes this life a lot better, too.
I believe ultimately faith is a greater mental state than logic.
My blog is pretty clear on my feelings towards atheism. I'm not here to convert anyone. I'm not even sure if that's possible. That's up to God.
I would like to stay in this forum for as long as possible. I don't think that's going to be very long, not because I flame or curse or insult, but because unlike other Christians, I fight and I don't back down, and I'm not looking for peace, and when it comes to atheism the ideas of tolerance and indulgence as love don't work. In fact they are a form of hate in that they allow a person to stay in a state that separates them from God and ensures for them hell as an afterlife.
So, that's where I'm coming from. But don't let it spoil the fun. :)
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AMand when it comes to atheism the ideas of tolerance and indulgence as love don't work. In fact they are a form of hate in that they allow a person to stay in a state that separates them from God and ensures for them hell as an afterlife.
So, that's where I'm coming from. But don't let it spoil the fun. :)
Oh ye, some games are always popular, Monopoly, Snakes and Ladders, You Think I'm Going to Hell Ha Ha, I'm sure someone will play for a while.
Well, that was quite the read, but I think I get what you're saying. It is nice to know that you don't hate atheists, because I think some of us misunderstood. Or maybe that was just me :D I would answer and ask some of your questions, but I think that it is best to wait until you graduate to the more serious part of the forum. You said that you wanted to "study us", maybe spend a bit of time just chatting with the other people to get to know them. I believe it has been said before, but we do have a few theists here. You could get to know them. :)
Personally, I want to get to know you. Do you have any interesting hobbies? I am an avid horseback rider. What is your favorite food? Mine definetly has to be chicken Alfredo.
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AMAnd I would like to make something clear to all--I don't hate atheists as people. I hate atheism. Probably in the same way you hate Christianity, but not individual Christians.
Actually, I think you'll find that, despite our complaining and even the occasional making fun, most of us don't
hate Christianity, or Islam or Judaism or Hinduism or Wicca or whathaveyou, we simply are skeptical of their claims.
If I told you that I was able to fly without any mechanical assistance, would you hate me for making this claim, or simply disbelieve me short of extraordinary evidence? I suspect it would be the latter, because hate takes a lot to inspire.
Do you know what I hate? Almost nothing. I'm thinking very hard about things that frustrate me or make me angry or that I feel otherwise negatively towards, and all I can come up with is things like the abuse of children, murder and war, and sexual assault. Other than those things, nothing I can think of elicits hatred. And why should it? Hatred takes such energy, and it's often so strong it can override reason and responsibility. I wouldn't want to feel like that.
And so I'm left wondering why you might
hate atheism. Has atheism ever done anything terrible to you? Is atheism causing needless suffering? Is it victimizing the innocent? Or is it offending your sensibilities so terribly in some other way?
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AMAnd I would like to make something clear to all--I don't hate atheists as people. I hate atheism. Probably in the same way you hate Christianity, but not individual Christians.
Atheism isn't the hatred of Xianity or any other religion, it's the rejection of Xianity or any other religion. Atheists don't believe in religion or their mystical gods. The fact that you hate atheism is your issue.
Hating atheism makes no sense. And I don't even think that is a valid word, because it doesn't mean ANYTHING. So you hate my disbelief in religion? Why?
Am I bothering you?
Do you know me?
If you ask me, you are wasting your time and hatred. I don't hate religion or religious people. I dislike narrow minded people, who find it easier to not bother using their brains to solve real world problems, or don't see how much harm religion has done.
Quote from: MadBomr101 on December 09, 2011, 10:45:34 PM
Quote from: Egor on December 09, 2011, 07:16:24 PMI am working on a book about atheism...
This doesn't sound like a good idea.
From what I've read here as Egor's past starts to trickle out little by little, it's sounding to me like he's a very enthusiastic Xian with a fairly well established bias against atheists. This suggests little or no real insight into atheism or atheists as people so writing a book on the subject would be like me writing a book on what its like to be an NFL quarterback and doing so from an irrational position of hating NFL quarterbacks to begin with.
I know what an NFL quarterback is and what he does and I can look up his career stats but I have no idea what it's like to actually be an NFL quarterback but, man, they suck and I want the world to know it!
I'd stick with the Xian sci-fi
You know, you have really got me thinking. I wrote and published a novel; it was a ghost story, and some people really liked it. I've always believed fiction was a better way of telling the truth than non-fiction. And even though I have this outline of this book about fighting atheism, I just don't get good vibes from it. It's like I'm stuck in this mindset telling me to do it, but like God is telling me not to do it, but because I'm stuck in the mindset, it's hard for me to discern the will of God. I have no idea why I'm telling this to an atheist, but it's late and I suppose I'm bored at work.
Nonetheless, it was this post that got me really thinking about it. I even think I have a good idea for a novel. I just don't know. And then I think about it, I already have a blog, why write a non-fiction book? To sell? To who? I even have a novel review site that I maintain. I like literature.
Now I'm babbling. :-X
Why exactly do you as a person want to a book about atheists? o_o
Atheisms doesn't really exist. Being a atheist just means you don't believe in a religion or a god(s). But other than that, atheists can be nice, caring, cruel, fat, skinny. We're all just human beings in the end.
Egor/Edward ;)
Have you ever read any of the Revelation Space series by Alistair Rynolds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alastair_Reynolds)? I suspect you would find them interesting as there is always a strong theistic element in them. Have you read the Rama series by Arthur C Clark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke), in particular Rama II? One of the main characters is a Catholic who has some interesting moral dilemmas to cope with and it brings up Pascals Wager towards the end.
I agree with story telling as a great way of illustrating ideas. Terry Pratchett is very good at that sort of moral illustration in the Discworld series and of course the Bible stories do much the same thing. Humans tend to lean by experience (do you have any kids?) but one can't simply go out and murder somebody to show it's bad, but a story can place murder in its context and allow the reader to appreciate why it is wrong.
I intended to write a science fiction novel based on the limitations of the speed of light so I went out and got a serious cosmology course book and studied it. It took six months to work through it, I did all the relevent maths examples etc. Then I read my first Alistair Rynolds novel and realised he'd already written the book I wanted to right!!!
Egor, you can stay here as long as you like provided you don't piss everybody off. You can believe what you like, I don't care really, I just find it really annoying when somebody tries to force their beliefs on me. Nothing you say is going to change my mind. I've been a salesman and a product manager for a collective 12 years so I've used all the tricks of, and been subjected to, all the tricks of sales people. If you do want to get my attention and interest then you'll have to explain in detail not only what you believe but why you believe it. And if you can't make a case that will stand on its own without you there as part of it then I'm not interested. And I don't mean that in a nasty way. I've been lied to so often by sales people who I don't trust anybody and somebody trying to sell an idea even less. So you're trying to teach a pig to sing (ultimately futile and it annoys the pig) when it comes to telling my what you believe is true, unless you can support your beliefs with objective evidence, and so far no theist of any type has been able to do that I.E. creat a coherent case for the existence of God that does not include wild speculations about why a supernatural entity is the reason for existence.
I have a facebook friend that I have known for since 2006. He's a professional biologist and really knows his subject. The interesting thing is he recently (6 months ago) fell head-over-heels in love with a Mormon lady. He's moved to Utah and has started studying the CofLDS and going to church for the first time in decades with the intention of becoming a mormon. If he can resolve CotLDS doctrine with his knowledge of biology. Yesterday came a crunch moment. The CotLDS is ambivalent to evolution and doctrine is moving to making noises to the effect that accepting evolution is a personal choice. This is all very well, except for the fact that his future mother in law is a rabid anti-evolutionist. What has impressed me about him is that he has embraced the idea of studying Mormonism in a brilliantly academic way. He has brought the rigour of his scientific background to the study of the religion. The basic problem he has found is that religion/faith is much more an individual emotional choice than a logical choice, and in my experience emotions trump logic almost every time. So he's having a hard time at the moment.
So we have a lot to discuss and as long as people keep a cool head and appreciate they have no right to force their views on others then there will be no problem. But I invest a lot of time and effort to keep this place running peacefully and at the end of the day the forum is more important that any one member (atheist or not). So if the discussions are civil and impersonal they can continue as long as people are prepared to participate in them, but if they degenerate into a flame war then I'll do what is needed to put the fires out, without hesitation.
Chris
Quote from: Tank on December 10, 2011, 08:50:52 AM
What has impressed me about him is that he has embraced the idea of studying Mormonism in a brilliantly academic way. He has brought the rigour of his scientific background to the study of the religion. The basic problem he has found is that religion/faith is much more an individual emotional choice than a logical choice, and in my experience emotions trump logic almost every time. So he's having a hard time at the moment.
I wonder if your friend has ever read Stephen Jay Gould's
Rocks of Ages?
Quote from: WikipediaIn his book Rocks of Ages (1999), Gould put forward what he described as "a blessedly simple and entirely conventional resolution to...the supposed conflict between science and religion." He defines the term magisterium as "a domain where one form of teaching holds the appropriate tools for meaningful discourse and resolution." The non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA) principle therefore divides the magisterium of science to cover "the empirical realm: what the Universe is made of (fact) and why does it work in this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value. These two magisteria do not overlap, nor do they encompass all inquiry." He suggests that "NOMA enjoys strong and fully explicit support, even from the primary cultural stereotypes of hard-line traditionalism" and that NOMA is "a sound position of general consensus, established by long struggle among people of goodwill in both magisteria." This view has not been without criticism, however. In his book The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins argues that this division is not quite as simple as it seems, as few religions exist without miracles impinging on the scientific magisterium, and that NOMA is an implicit endorsement that religion has a magisterium, which he strongly opposes.
Gould's approach has plenty of detractors but I thought it a very sensible solution to the problem of science and religion.
I've just messaged him to find out.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on December 10, 2011, 06:10:23 AM
If you ask me, you are wasting your time and hatred. I don't hate religion or religious people. I dislike narrow minded people, who find it easier to not bother using their brains to solve real world problems, or don't see how much harm religion has done.
...And me, I don't give a fuck about being hated by the religious. In fact, I only care about how those in some ways important to my life feel about me, and that calls for an individual evaluation, not based on a general label.
As for us hating christianity... Well, I suppose some do.
Despise would be the more appropriate word to describe my stance on it. I don't waste my time hating shit - shit is a part of life. However, shit is also very much unworthy of my interest.
Quote from: Tank on December 10, 2011, 08:50:52 AM
Egor/Edward ;)
Have you ever read any of the Revelation Space series by Alistair Rynolds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alastair_Reynolds)? I suspect you would find them interesting as there is always a strong theistic element in them. Have you read the Rama series by Arthur C Clark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke), in particular Rama II? One of the main characters is a Catholic who has some interesting moral dilemmas to cope with and it brings up Pascals Wager towards the end.
I agree with story telling as a great way of illustrating ideas. Terry Pratchett is very good at that sort of moral illustration in the Discworld series and of course the Bible stories do much the same thing. Humans tend to lean by experience (do you have any kids?) but one can't simply go out and murder somebody to show it's bad, but a story can place murder in its context and allow the reader to appreciate why it is wrong.
I intended to write a science fiction novel based on the limitations of the speed of light so I went out and got a serious cosmology course book and studied it. It took six months to work through it, I did all the relevent maths examples etc. Then I read my first Alistair Rynolds novel and realised he'd already written the book I wanted to right!!!
Egor, you can stay here as long as you like provided you don't piss everybody off. You can believe what you like, I don't care really, I just find it really annoying when somebody tries to force their beliefs on me. Nothing you say is going to change my mind. I've been a salesman and a product manager for a collective 12 years so I've used all the tricks of, and been subjected to, all the tricks of sales people. If you do want to get my attention and interest then you'll have to explain in detail not only what you believe but why you believe it. And if you can't make a case that will stand on its own without you there as part of it then I'm not interested. And I don't mean that in a nasty way. I've been lied to so often by sales people who I don't trust anybody and somebody trying to sell an idea even less. So you're trying to teach a pig to sing (ultimately futile and it annoys the pig) when it comes to telling my what you believe is true, unless you can support your beliefs with objective evidence, and so far no theist of any type has been able to do that I.E. creat a coherent case for the existence of God that does not include wild speculations about why a supernatural entity is the reason for existence.
I have a facebook friend that I have known for since 2006. He's a professional biologist and really knows his subject. The interesting thing is he recently (6 months ago) fell head-over-heels in love with a Mormon lady. He's moved to Utah and has started studying the CofLDS and going to church for the first time in decades with the intention of becoming a mormon. If he can resolve CotLDS doctrine with his knowledge of biology. Yesterday came a crunch moment. The CotLDS is ambivalent to evolution and doctrine is moving to making noises to the effect that accepting evolution is a personal choice. This is all very well, except for the fact that his future mother in law is a rabid anti-evolutionist. What has impressed me about him is that he has embraced the idea of studying Mormonism in a brilliantly academic way. He has brought the rigour of his scientific background to the study of the religion. The basic problem he has found is that religion/faith is much more an individual emotional choice than a logical choice, and in my experience emotions trump logic almost every time. So he's having a hard time at the moment.
So we have a lot to discuss and as long as people keep a cool head and appreciate they have no right to force their views on others then there will be no problem. But I invest a lot of time and effort to keep this place running peacefully and at the end of the day the forum is more important that any one member (atheist or not). So if the discussions are civil and impersonal they can continue as long as people are prepared to participate in them, but if they degenerate into a flame war then I'll do what is needed to put the fires out, without hesitation.
Chris
Well said. All of it. I will do my best to keep from starting any fires or bursting into spontaneous human combustion.
Yeah...I'm another who finds your use of the word "hate" strong, and curious. What personal experiences have brought you to hate atheism? You do realise, first and foremost
why people are atheists, right? I would suggest that you study that question with seriousness, if you want to gain any understanding.
(And please, if you're going to write a book depicting atheists and atheism (which is just the lack of belief in any deity)...good luck. I personally don't see how you can make blanket statements about a group as diverse and not sound ridiculous. Just a tip ::)
Quote from: Asmodean on December 10, 2011, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on December 10, 2011, 06:10:23 AM
If you ask me, you are wasting your time and hatred. I don't hate religion or religious people. I dislike narrow minded people, who find it easier to not bother using their brains to solve real world problems, or don't see how much harm religion has done.
...And me, I don't give a fuck about being hated by the religious. In fact, I only care about how those in some ways important to my life feel about me, and that calls for an individual evaluation, not based on a general label.
Me too. I really couldn't care less if I'm hated by certain groups and people...in the end it gains me nothing, and I loose nothing too. Neutral ground ;D
As some other people pointed out, I think it would help if you told us something about yourself that didn't revolve around your beliefs/hatred of other (lack of ) beliefs.
What's your favourite food? What's your favourite travel destination? Do you have any pets? Do you like sports? etc, etc.
We're all people at the end of the day :)
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AM
I don't believe the entire Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I believe the New Testament Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are the only works that are the inerrant Word of God. I consider the other books of the King James Bible to be commentary on the Gospels or in the case of the Old Testament, a historical reference for the Gospels.
As a Christian, this part interests me. I no longer consider any of the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God. Instead, I try to look at the various books as simply historical documents that need to be analyzed. I put more stock in the authentic writings of Paul than any of the other books. I put more stock in Mark than Matthew, etc. The King James Bible is just a translation. If I have questions about the meaning of a passage, I usually consult the Greek manuscripts. Welcome to the forum.
Regarding atheism, I'm not an atheist, but I see no reason to hate a particular state of mind. I'm less and less inclined as I grow older to hate anything - takes up too much energy. If you want people to believe, then give them a reason why they should believe. That would solve the problem better than hating the state of mind. By analogy, if a doctor wants to address a particular state of health, he will prescribe some treatment. He won't just write about how much he hates that particular ailment.
Atheists generally don't believe because they see no reason to believe. If you want them to believe, show them something that will cause them to believe. I have no idea what that could be, as my basis for faith is personal subjective experience, which I can't prescribe for anyone else, since it relates only to things that have happened to me. But maybe you can do better than that.
I watched the movie "The Rite"
Atheists are the fools who don't recognise the threat.
I am guilty of yelling wake up Skully, what's with this sceptical shit, didn't you see a vampire jump over the moon last week?
I do have a line drawn here somewhere though, reality is on one side I'm sure, sureish.
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AM
And I would like to make something clear to all--I don't hate atheists as people.
QuoteI'm not looking for peace, and when it comes to atheism the ideas of tolerance and indulgence as love don't work. In fact they are a form of hate in that they allow a person to stay in a state that separates them from God and ensures for them hell as an afterlife.
These seem awfully contradictory to me.
Ya...you are probably right that you won't last long, but not because you won't back down in debate. I don't think you'll be able to debate while minding the civility rule with an attitude like the above....it's borderline as it is; if you had spoken the same way of black people you'd already have been banned...we just give a lot more slack for bigotry against atheist since it is still culturally acceptable to hate us.
Quote from: Whitney on December 10, 2011, 04:41:37 PM
we just give a lot more slack for bigotry against atheist since it is still culturally acceptable to hate us.
...Not everywhere though.
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AM
I'm not looking for peace, and when it comes to atheism the ideas of tolerance and indulgence as love don't work. In fact they are a form of hate in that they allow a person to stay in a state that separates them from God and ensures for them hell as an afterlife.
this kind of talk always worries me when it comes from a Christian. It reminds me a lot of the intolerance that has blighted pretty much the whole of the history of Christianity, and led to the persecution of millions of non-believers and other Christians deemed 'heretics'.
We're not going away, so you ought to learn to tolerate atheism rather than hating it.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 10, 2011, 06:15:13 PM
We're not going away, so you ought to learn to tolerate atheism rather than hating it.
In fact, the number of non believers grows, which is probably what the world could use right now ::)
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 10, 2011, 06:15:13 PM
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AM
I'm not looking for peace, and when it comes to atheism the ideas of tolerance and indulgence as love don't work. In fact they are a form of hate in that they allow a person to stay in a state that separates them from God and ensures for them hell as an afterlife.
this kind of talk always worries me when it comes from a Christian. It reminds me a lot of the intolerance that has blighted pretty much the whole of the history of Christianity, and led to the persecution of millions of non-believers and other Christians deemed 'heretics'.
We're not going away, so you ought to learn to tolerate atheism rather than hating it.
That, and then there is the fact that my separation from god is no business of any one but me.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 10, 2011, 06:32:37 PM
In fact, the number of non believers grows, which is probably what the world could use right now ::)
Amen to that!
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 10, 2011, 07:01:28 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 10, 2011, 06:32:37 PM
In fact, the number of non believers grows, which is probably what the world could use right now ::)
Amen to that!
One could consider us breathing room between various religious zealotries.
AFAIK no atheist ever burned a christian.
Quote from: OldGit on December 10, 2011, 07:11:24 PM
AFAIK no atheist ever burned a christian.
Oh, maybe someone did, but not as a general policy... We aren't all that notorious for burning witches, crosses and witches on crosses either
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 10, 2011, 07:09:52 PM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 10, 2011, 07:01:28 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 10, 2011, 06:32:37 PM
In fact, the number of non believers grows, which is probably what the world could use right now ::)
Amen to that!
One could consider us breathing room between various religious zealotries.
Necessary buffer zones. ;D
That would be ideal ::)
Quote from: Tank on December 09, 2011, 09:34:25 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 09, 2011, 09:11:57 PM
{snip}
Oh for goodness sake, Ed, unclench. You'll find your self-fulfilling prophesies fulfilling themselves a good deal less.
Well said BCE.
I concur
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 07:11:34 AM
Quote from: MadBomr101 on December 09, 2011, 10:45:34 PM
Quote from: Egor on December 09, 2011, 07:16:24 PMI am working on a book about atheism...
This doesn't sound like a good idea.
From what I've read here as Egor's past starts to trickle out little by little, it's sounding to me like he's a very enthusiastic Xian with a fairly well established bias against atheists. This suggests little or no real insight into atheism or atheists as people so writing a book on the subject would be like me writing a book on what its like to be an NFL quarterback and doing so from an irrational position of hating NFL quarterbacks to begin with.
I know what an NFL quarterback is and what he does and I can look up his career stats but I have no idea what it's like to actually be an NFL quarterback but, man, they suck and I want the world to know it!
I'd stick with the Xian sci-fi
You know, you have really got me thinking. I wrote and published a novel; it was a ghost story, and some people really liked it. I've always believed fiction was a better way of telling the truth than non-fiction. And even though I have this outline of this book about fighting atheism, I just don't get good vibes from it. It's like I'm stuck in this mindset telling me to do it, but like God is telling me not to do it, but because I'm stuck in the mindset, it's hard for me to discern the will of God. I have no idea why I'm telling this to an atheist, but it's late and I suppose I'm bored at work.
Nonetheless, it was this post that got me really thinking about it. I even think I have a good idea for a novel. I just don't know. And then I think about it, I already have a blog, why write a non-fiction book? To sell? To who? I even have a novel review site that I maintain. I like literature.
Now I'm babbling. :-X
You should go with your gut on this. An atheist book from your decidedly Christian worldview can't help but be anything but a cover to cover collection of misinformation and biased conclusions. Think of it like this, you don't want me writing a book on Christianity, do you?
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 07:11:34 AM
I've always believed fiction was a better way of telling the truth than non-fiction.
You don't say.
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AM
That means, I'm not going to argue or defend Leviticus or Genesis.
How convenient.
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AM
I believe the New Testament Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are the only works that are the inerrant Word of God.
Inerrant my fat hairy ass... good luck with that one..
Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1
Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1
Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8
John the Baptist was Elias
Matt 11:14
John the Baptist was not Elias
John 1:21
The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
Matt 1:16
The father of Mary's husband was Heli
Luke 3:23
There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:2-6
There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
to Christ.
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
captivity to Christ
Matt 1:12-16
The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
Luke 2:22, 39
Christ was tempted in the wilderness
Mark 1:12,13
Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
John 2:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
Matt 5:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
Luke 6:17,20
John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
Mark 1:14
John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
John 1:43/ John 3:22-24
Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
and sandals
Mark 6:8,9
Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
staffs nor sandals.
Matt 10:9,10
A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
Matt 15:22
It was a Greek woman who besought Him
Mark 7:26
Two blind men besought Jesus
Matt 20:30
Only one blind man besought Him
Luke 18:35,38
Christ was crucified at the third hour
Mark 15:25
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
John 19:14,15
The two thieves reviled Christ.
Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
Luke 23:39,40
Satan entered into Judas while at supper
John 13:27
Satan entered into him before the supper
Luke 22:3,4,7
There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
John 20:1
There were two women who came to the sepulchre
Matt 28:1
There were three women who came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:1
There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
Luke 24:10
It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:2
It was some time before sunrise when they came.
John 20:1
There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
they were standing up.
Luke 24:4
There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
Matt 28:2,5
There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
John 20:11,12
There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
Mark 16:5
Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go into Galilee
Matt 28:10
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
Luke 24:49
Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
Jerusalem
Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
Matt 28:16,17
Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5
The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19
Christ's mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ's mission was not peace
Matt 10:34
Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27
Blimey - good collection, squidfetish!
Quote from: Asmodean on December 10, 2011, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: OldGit on December 10, 2011, 07:11:24 PM
AFAIK no atheist ever burned a christian.
Oh, maybe someone did, but not as a general policy... We aren't all that notorious for burning witches, crosses and witches on crosses either
That would be so wasteful
I hate it when someone leaves the toaster on high and my toast gets burnt.
You can try to scrape the black off but it's not the same.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on December 13, 2011, 06:17:07 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 10, 2011, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: OldGit on December 10, 2011, 07:11:24 PM
AFAIK no atheist ever burned a christian.
Oh, maybe someone did, but not as a general policy... We aren't all that notorious for burning witches, crosses and witches on crosses either
That would be so wasteful
I hate it when someone leaves the toaster on high and my toast gets burnt.
You can try to scrape the black off but it's not the same.
Precisely. >:( Ruin nice snacks like that!
Quote from: Norfolk And Chance on December 12, 2011, 12:42:48 PM
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 07:11:34 AM
I've always believed fiction was a better way of telling the truth than non-fiction.
You don't say.
yeah, I thought that was a rather ironic comment from a Christian
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AM
I believe the New Testament Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are the only works that are the inerrant Word of God.
All written anonymously decades after the supposed lifetime of Jesus. We don't know by whom, where or even when they were first written. We have no copies of the original gospels, what we have is copies made centuries later.
Plus there are also over 400,000 variations in the known New Testament manuscripts dating from the 2nd to 15th centuries, which is more than the number of words in the New Testament, so it's hardly inerrant!
And the gospels were originally written in Koine Greek. If they are the inerrant word of your deity, your god chose to speak to us in an obscure dead language.
All of this hardly seems like the best way for the creator of the universe to converse with his most prized creations...
Quote from: OldGit on December 12, 2011, 08:58:40 PM
Blimey - good collection, squidfetish!
Thankyou, good sir! ;D
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 13, 2011, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 04:17:41 AM
I believe the New Testament Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are the only works that are the inerrant Word of God.
All written anonymously decades after the supposed lifetime of Jesus. We don't know by whom, where or even when they were first written. We have no copies of the original gospels, what we have is copies made centuries later.
Plus there are also over 400,000 variations in the known New Testament manuscripts dating from the 2nd to 15th centuries, which is more than the number of words in the New Testament, so it's hardly inerrant!
And the gospels were originally written in Koine Greek. If they are the inerrant word of your deity, your god chose to speak to us in an obscure dead language.
All of this hardly seems like the best way for the creator of the universe to converse with his most prized creations...
This sounds gross but I really really love this post.
Quote from: xm1 on December 13, 2011, 04:35:30 PM
This sounds gross but I really really love this post.
thanks xm1 :D
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 13, 2011, 11:29:08 AM
Quote from: Norfolk And Chance on December 12, 2011, 12:42:48 PM
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 07:11:34 AM
I've always believed fiction was a better way of telling the truth than non-fiction.
You don't say.
yeah, I thought that was a rather ironic comment from a Christian
I don't even think OP believes his own words
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 13, 2011, 11:29:08 AM
Quote from: Norfolk And Chance on December 12, 2011, 12:42:48 PM
Quote from: Egor on December 10, 2011, 07:11:34 AM
I've always believed fiction was a better way of telling the truth than non-fiction.
You don't say.
yeah, I thought that was a rather ironic comment from a Christian
LOL
You have to be vigilant, Egor. :D
Hello Egor, thank you for your pity and your hate. Of course I mean that sarcastically, but really, lets not start with " I pity you, well, no, I pity you" it is boring and useless.
You say you joined to learn. I don't believe you. Learning means having an open mind and being able to change your opinion. Honestly, are you able to objectively take in information and digest in rationally, without the "god filter"?
As a christian you believe that hindus are wrong, and they return the favour.
As an atheist I admit that the future of my beliefs is open to change as more information comes in. But I limit the incoming information to the realm of the rational. I don't let literature decide how I feel about the world.
Jose AR
^^^^ well said! :)
Testify brother!
I have posted my final draft of what I believe as a Christian on my blog, I figured, I should let you all know about it, but I don't know that I should post it in here lest I'm accused of preaching.
Quote from: Egor on December 23, 2011, 09:01:16 AM
I have posted my final draft of what I believe as a Christian on my blog, I figured, I should let you all know about it, but I don't know that I should post it in here lest I'm accused of preaching.
Feel free to post it here if you want. If it had been the first thing you'd posted and you'd preached continuiously it could have been a problem.
Thanks, Tank.
Okay, here they are. There are only six, and they're pretty standard, but for the rest of my life I will stand by these and defend these. They literally shape who I am today. It has taken 40 years of religious travel to get to this point. Some Christians would say I just moved in one big circle. My hope is that I can be effective at convincing others of the truth of these beliefs, even as I have been convinced by the Holy Spirit. Here they are:
1. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of all things seen and unseen, the Ultimate Power, the Sustainer of all that exists.
2. I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, The Word of God, The Way, the Truth, and the Life who came to earth by the Holy Spirit through the Virgin Mary and suffered death by crucifixion under Pontius Pilate for the salvation of mankind.
3. I believe He rose again after three days and ascended into heaven where He sits at the right hand of God in Glory and will return again to reign forever on earth even as He does in heaven.
4. I believe in salvation through the confession of sin, repentance of the heart, and faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ, to be saved from hell and moved from death to eternal life to live forever with Christ in His Kingdom according to the promises of His everlasting Word.
5. I believe in the sixty-six books of the King James Bible as the written record of Gods inspired Word, nothing to be added, nothing removed.
6. I believe in the Divine Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, being one in substance and three in person.
Quote from: Egor on December 23, 2011, 07:26:18 PM
5. I believe in the sixty-six books of the King James Bible as the written record of God's inspired Word, nothing to be added, nothing removed.
So everyone has to learn Elizabethan English in order to read the Word of God? What if I learn Classical Hebrew and Koine Greek and read it in the original language - would that be the Word of God, too?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 23, 2011, 08:40:08 PM
Quote from: Egor on December 23, 2011, 07:26:18 PM
5. I believe in the sixty-six books of the King James Bible as the written record of God's inspired Word, nothing to be added, nothing removed.
So everyone has to learn Elizabethan English in order to read the Word of God? What if I learn Classical Hebrew and Koine Greek and read it in the original language - would that be the Word of God, too?
Sure! just not the
correct word of the
correct god. The bestest, strongest, biggest and onliest god there is. Oh, and my public forum-acceptable euphemism for wiener is bigger than yours.
:P
Quote from: Egor on December 23, 2011, 07:26:18 PM
Thanks, Tank.
Okay, here they are. There are only six, and they're pretty standard, but for the rest of my life I will stand by these and defend these. They literally shape who I am today. It has taken 40 years of religious travel to get to this point. Some Christians would say I just moved in one big circle. My hope is that I can be effective at convincing others of the truth of these beliefs, even as I have been convinced by the Holy Spirit. Here they are:
1. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of all things seen and unseen, the Ultimate Power, the Sustainer of all that exists.
2. I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, The Word of God, The Way, the Truth, and the Life who came to earth by the Holy Spirit through the Virgin Mary and suffered death by crucifixion under Pontius Pilate for the salvation of mankind.
3. I believe He rose again after three days and ascended into heaven where He sits at the right hand of God in Glory and will return again to reign forever on earth even as He does in heaven.
4. I believe in salvation through the confession of sin, repentance of the heart, and faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ, to be saved from hell and moved from death to eternal life to live forever with Christ in His Kingdom according to the promises of His everlasting Word.
5. I believe in the sixty-six books of the King James Bible as the written record of God's inspired Word, nothing to be added, nothing removed.
6. I believe in the Divine Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, being one in substance and three in person.
Oy vey. ::)
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 23, 2011, 08:40:08 PM
So everyone has to learn Elizabethan English in order to read the Word of God? What if I learn Classical Hebrew and Koine Greek and read it in the original language - would that be the Word of God, too?
Not in my opinion. I realize the King James was translated from Greek, into Coptic, and then into Latin and then into Old (er) English. But in my opinion, because of the influence the KJV has had in the world, I am convinced it was particularly blessed to reveal God's Word to us. I don't think anyone is going to hell over reading other versions. It's just that I think that is our source document now. And it really isn't that hard to read, and even if it is a bit harder, it's good for the education of young minds. In my opinion. It's a rather minor point.
Quote from: Egor on December 24, 2011, 05:40:34 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 23, 2011, 08:40:08 PM
So everyone has to learn Elizabethan English in order to read the Word of God? What if I learn Classical Hebrew and Koine Greek and read it in the original language - would that be the Word of God, too?
Not in my opinion. I realize the King James was translated from Greek, into Coptic, and then into Latin and then into Old (er) English. But in my opinion, because of the influence the KJV has had in the world, I am convinced it was particularly blessed to reveal God's Word to us. I don't think anyone is going to hell over reading other versions. It's just that I think that is our source document now. And it really isn't that hard to read, and even if it is a bit harder, it's good for the education of young minds. In my opinion. It's a rather minor point.
It's had an important literary importance, that can't be disputed, but religious? ::)
"If the King's English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for the children of Texas!" - Miriam "Ma" Ferguson, the state's first woman governor. (circa 1920-something)
How....parochial.
Quote from: Egor on December 24, 2011, 05:40:34 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 23, 2011, 08:40:08 PM
So everyone has to learn Elizabethan English in order to read the Word of God? What if I learn Classical Hebrew and Koine Greek and read it in the original language - would that be the Word of God, too?
Not in my opinion. I realize the King James was translated from Greek, into Coptic, and then into Latin and then into Old (er) English. But in my opinion, because of the influence the KJV has had in the world, I am convinced it was particularly blessed to reveal God's Word to us. I don't think anyone is going to hell over reading other versions. It's just that I think that is our source document now. And it really isn't that hard to read, and even if it is a bit harder, it's good for the education of young minds. In my opinion. It's a rather minor point.
There's no question about it's influence. (There's a good article about the KJV in the most recent National Geographic, BTW). But it's not even the best translation from a literal point of view, as it was based mainly on the Textus Receptus, which was a relatively late Byzantine text. There have been many other transcripts discovered since that time, which is why recent translations are based on more eclectic texts such as the Nestle-Aland/United Bible Societies text. If you are going to have a "source document," it should be one that is closer to the actual originals, as much as can be determined, anyway. And it shouldn't be in English - it should be in the original language. That makes it equally accessible for people whose native tongue is not English, much less 1611 English. Making the KJV the ultimate source document for Christianity reflects a very inflated Anglo-centric perspective.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 24, 2011, 02:26:11 PM
Making the KJV the ultimate source document for Christianity reflects a very inflated Anglo-centric perspective.
Hmmm. I never cared for the KJV because of the thees and thous and damsels and such things (I kept expecting knights and dragons to appear), but the bible I finally selected was the Revised English Bible since I figured if anyone could pick out the best English word to translate a Greek or Hebrew word, it would be a bunch of clerics from the UK. But it strikes me their perspective might inevitably be too Anglocentric as well. If you were going to recommend an English language bible (since I haven't got a hope of learning either Greek or Hebrew), which one would it be?
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 24, 2011, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 24, 2011, 02:26:11 PM
Making the KJV the ultimate source document for Christianity reflects a very inflated Anglo-centric perspective.
Hmmm. I never cared for the KJV because of the thees and thous and damsels and such things (I kept expecting knights and dragons to appear), but the bible I finally selected was the Revised English Bible since I figured if anyone could pick out the best English word to translate a Greek or Hebrew word, it would be a bunch of clerics from the UK. But it strikes me their perspective might inevitably be too Anglocentric as well. If you were going to recommend an English language bible (since I haven't got a hope of learning either Greek or Hebrew), which one would it be?
The New American Standard Bible is based on more recent textual scholarship, and attempts to stay as close to the original Greek/Hebrew as possible. You might try it alongside your Revised English for comparison. You're going to get a pretty accurate translation from all of them, in any event, except for the more loosely translated paraphrases like the Living Bible of a few decades ago.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 24, 2011, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 24, 2011, 02:26:11 PM
Making the KJV the ultimate source document for Christianity reflects a very inflated Anglo-centric perspective.
Hmmm. I never cared for the KJV because of the thees and thous and damsels and such things (I kept expecting knights and dragons to appear),
LOL
I like the language style in the KJV especially because I see your point :P