Hello,
When I'm having bad days, I get depressed by the ultimate fate of the universe (heat death, etc.). I know it's silly to have anything so far in the future affect me, but it still undermines the meaning of life for me (or interferes with cultivating a life of meaning, in positive psychology terms). I don't mind that my life is an eyeblink, or that I am insignificant, but to think that humanity and all life is ultimately doomed to fail to entropy, makes me very sad.
I do appreciate how lucky we are to be animate matter, to possibly uniquely be the very mind of the universe. I appreciate that each story must come to an end, but I am saddened still.
Can anyone relate to this? Does anyone have a tonic?
I do fine with a life of engagement, and a life of enjoyment, but my life of meaning is sorely lacking. Thank you.
Quote from: EdgeWiseInAnnArbor on December 06, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
Can anyone relate to this? Does anyone have a tonic?
Hello there. unfortunately, I cannot offer you a tonic, but I can say that by examining your life and filtering out what it ultimately unnecessary and adding more things that make you feel happy, can at least dull the sense of lacking purpose. What do you love to do? That one thing you can't live without? Do it. Often. That is the only advice I can really offer my friend. And while I'm at it, welcome to HAF. Glad to have you.
*Is proud cuz she beat Tank to it* ;D
Welcome to the forum! I would have to agree with not your typical..., when I feel down, I go do my favorite activity and I will feel loads better. ;D
Hi EWIAA
I think one's feeling of ultimate impotence in the face of nature/reality is the root of superstition and therefore institutionalised superstition (religion).
Welcome to HAF. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg32.imageshack.us%2Fimg32%2F2922%2Fcheersi.gif&hash=d22c932723fd55512134b1ae98b018246ccbb424)
Regards
Chris
Notes for new members.
The Rules. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0)
Users who comply with forum rules will graduate to full membership after 10 posts. Till that time your ability to post is limited to the "Getting to Know You" (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php#2) section of the forum. It is our hope that this small restriction improves the overall atmosphere of HAF.
Some threads you might find interesting.
Where did you get your username from? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0)
10 Things About Yourself (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4940.0)
Tell us A Bit About Where You're From (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8215.0)
Photography (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)
Non-religious pet peeves (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6917.0)
Pets...what do you have? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7.0)
How to tell your family you are an atheist. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5111.0)*
*You will need 10 posts before you can add a post to this thread, but you can read it at any time.
Quote from: EdgeWiseInAnnArbor on December 06, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
Can anyone relate to this?
Welcome to HAF!
To answer your question, no, I can not. My life would more than likely have lost every single shread of significance long before the Universe we know ended, but it would not matter to me in any case, what with me being dead for who knows how many millions of years.
I guess I just don't look for meanings on a cosmic scale... The world we know and the time we live in is depressing enough.
EdgeWiseInAnnArbor,
Glad to see you here and sorry to here that a "Life of Meaning" is lacking.
But...I think I can help. See, years ago I think I discovered the "Meaning of Life", and I can also show you where to find it, too. Yeah...I know that last statement seems arrogant on my part, why not consider it for a moment?
See...I figure the meaning of life is this: to Live, be Happy and Pass on some Goodness - as simple as that. Not very Philosophical, huh? Yep...it ain't.
Life begins and ends with a struggle. We come into this world bald, confused, toothless and without bowl control - and that's how we leave. That's the game of life, and from the game springs "Meaning".
Now...if you want to learn about the game, where do you go? If ya' wanna' learn the Stock Market ya' go to New York, right? Or...If ya' wanna learn how to gamble ya' go to Las Vegas, right? I mean....aren't these the places where the "High-Stakes" games are played?
Consequently...if you want to learn about the "Meaning of Life", then what better place to go than a Hospital - where the "Stakes" are existential!? In a Hospital, the winners get a new lease on life or, in the case of babies, a new life. The losers get...all their chips taken away - forever.
You go to a hospital and see this game - really see it - and it will probably help you see the "Meaning of Life". Personally, when I truly realized the game, it was one of the happiest moments on my life. I was walking out of a Hospital at the time, and I well remember how I felt. I mean, on that partly cloudy day never had I seen the sky so blue. Old people in wheel chairs and homely girls were beautiful. The songs of the grayest sparrows were so sweet melodies. Being alive felt good - for I realized life - a healthy life - was fleeting and so damned precious. And I came to understand Life's Meaning.
This is just me. I could be wrong.
Why not go find out for yourself - it's don't cost nuthin'?
Quote from: EdgeWiseInAnnArbor on December 06, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
Does anyone have a tonic?
Crystal Meth :P
Hi EdgeWiseInAnnArbor, Welcome to HAF.
(wasn't being serious about the meth just in-case that didn't come across)
I try to have a very "in the moment" philosophy. Present experience is the most "real" of our experiences and most everything else (especially millions of years into the future) is conjecture.
If you want to get "deeper" than that, I'd just keep telling myself that everything that begins has an end and it's a waste of emotional energy to distress about the facts that you can't change.
If life which stems from humans survives to see the last suns darken who knows what escape plans they may develop?
Of course your limitations don't apply to me, I'll just withdraw into pudding space where such limitations don't exist.
Hello
Welcome!
Not that I think this will help, or if it's even possible, but one guy I read about online had an interesting perspective on all of it: that one of our purposes, as the conscious part of the universe, it to eventually create other universes (assuming it can be done, of course).
Though I do see the merits of thinking long term, I'm going to repeat what the others have said so far, it's rather pointless to think that far into the future ;)
Welcome aboard!
I love the title of this post.
When I was an undergrad (a thousand years ago now) I wrote a paper for one of my literary criticism courses titled "Popeye's Ontological Crisis: 'I Yam What I Yam.'" I think I even cited Nietzsche, Heidegger and Derrida in it. Ha! I was very ambitious.
I haven't thought about that paper in quite a while. Thanks! :D
Eat your spinach; you'll be fine.
Quote from: BullyforBronto on December 07, 2011, 02:21:09 AM
Welcome aboard!
I love the title of this post.
When I was an undergrad (a thousand years ago now) I wrote a paper for one of my literary criticism courses titled "Popeye's Ontological Crisis: 'I Yam What I Yam.'" I think I even cited Nietzsche, Heidegger and Derrida in it. Ha! I was very ambitious.
I haven't thought about that paper in quite a while. Thanks! :D
Eat your spinach; you'll be fine.
What grade did you get for it? ;D
Welcome to the forum, I really wouldn't worry about things that will happen so far in the future. Just try to enjoy your life now, and find meaning and pleasure in the things around you.
Quote from: EdgeWiseInAnnArbor on December 06, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
I do fine with a life of engagement, and a life of enjoyment, but my life of meaning is sorely lacking. Thank you.
I don't think life has any meaning other than the one each of us gives it, so you need to get busy on that.
Quote from: EdgeWiseInAnnArbor on December 06, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
Can anyone relate to this? Does anyone have a tonic?
I can relate.
The heat death of the universe would occur billions of years from now. If humanity can avoid destroying itself, and can continue advancing technologically - then my hope is that after billions of years of scientific and engineering advances, we will be advanced enough to control the fundamental forces of the universe and stop a heat death from occurring.
Quote from: mjolnir on December 08, 2011, 04:41:13 AM
Quote from: EdgeWiseInAnnArbor on December 06, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
Can anyone relate to this? Does anyone have a tonic?
I can relate.
The heat death of the universe would occur billions of years from now. If humanity can avoid destroying itself, and can continue advancing technologically - then my hope is that after billions of years of scientific and engineering advances, we will be advanced enough to control the fundamental forces of the universe and stop a heat death from occurring.
Trillions of years would be nearer the mark. The universe is still very early in its life cycle.
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 08:18:01 AM
Quote from: mjolnir on December 08, 2011, 04:41:13 AM
Quote from: EdgeWiseInAnnArbor on December 06, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
Can anyone relate to this? Does anyone have a tonic?
I can relate.
The heat death of the universe would occur billions of years from now. If humanity can avoid destroying itself, and can continue advancing technologically - then my hope is that after billions of years of scientific and engineering advances, we will be advanced enough to control the fundamental forces of the universe and stop a heat death from occurring.
Trillions of years would be nearer the mark. The universe is still very early in its life cycle.
I read a great book once called 'Time' (can't remember the author). This was a story of the death of the universe, spanning Trillions of years and what some advanced humans tried to do to stop it happening. Basically they couldn't, but ended up by 'farming' stars trying to bring about another big bang so that the universe could happen again in a certain way that was more sustainable. A very thought provoking story and requires a massive leap of imagination to comprehend - but massively worthwhile. I credit this book with opening my eyes to the wonderful insignificance of our little
world,
solar system,
galaxy,
galaxy group, galaxy cluster. And the insignificance of our planck-time of existence. Truly wonderful and a nihilistic pleasure!
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 08:18:01 AM
Trillions of years would be nearer the mark. The universe is still very early in its life cycle.
I agree, the time to total heat death would most likely be measured in trillions of years. However, I should clarify - I believe the furthest humans could survive without gaining mastery over the fundamental forces and dimensions of the universe, would most likely be measured in billions of years.
The time limit to settle other solar systems is somewhere around 5 billion years (due to the lifespan of the Sun).
It is also possible the Milky Way Galaxy and the Andromeda Galaxy will collide in about 3 billion years. This could bring chaos to the Earth, and therefore humans may need to master inter-galactic travel within 3 billion years.
Quote from: mjolnir on December 08, 2011, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 08:18:01 AM
Trillions of years would be nearer the mark. The universe is still very early in its life cycle.
I agree, the time to total heat death would most likely be measured in trillions of years. However, I should clarify - I believe the furthest humans could survive without gaining mastery over the fundamental forces and dimensions of the universe, would most likely be measured in billions of years.
The time limit to settle other solar systems is somewhere around 5 billion years (due to the lifespan of the Sun).
It is also possible the Milky Way Galaxy and the Andromeda Galaxy will collide in about 3 billion years. This could bring chaos to the Earth, and therefore humans may need to master inter-galactic travel within 3 billion years.
Without being too negative (and I'm quite happy to accept a reasonable assertion), one might argue that it's not even possible, given the distances involved and the frailty and infinitesimal lifespan of humans. Faster than light travel, space-folding and hyperspace travel or any other concept that is required to make intergalactic travel feasable (or even inter-star-system travel) may simply not be possible.
It is, however, entirely possible that there have been (and will continue to be) millions of civilisations throughout the universe, but they are spread so far apart in distance and time that the likelihood of EVER meeting one in the same time and part of space is negligable. These civilisations are popping into existence and snuffing out all the time - just like us.
SETI has been active for some 27 years. If we look for even 10,000 years, what are the chances of finding a friend to say HELLO to within our event horizon? Bugger all! Are we really gonna be here in 10,000 years time? I think we're gonna need a sky-daddy...
Quote from: mjolnir on December 08, 2011, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 08:18:01 AM
Trillions of years would be nearer the mark. The universe is still very early in its life cycle.
I agree, the time to total heat death would most likely be measured in trillions of years. However, I should clarify - I believe the furthest humans could survive without gaining mastery over the fundamental forces and dimensions of the universe, would most likely be measured in billions of years.
The time limit to settle other solar systems is somewhere around 5 billion years (due to the lifespan of the Sun).
It is also possible the Milky Way Galaxy and the Andromeda Galaxy will collide in about 3 billion years. This could bring chaos to the Earth, and therefore humans may need to master inter-galactic travel within 3 billion years.
God you are a little ray of sunshine aren't you :D
IMO if humanity makes it past 2,200 and still has a technological capability of functioning beyond scavenging and recycling it'll be nothing short of a miracle.
2200? Blimey, Tank, you're an optimist. :(
welcome to the club. Yes all life will end, humanity will end, the earth will end. This is how things are. This actually gives you permission to enjoy life! eat some ice cream, go look at some trees or birds, hold hands with someone. You will die once, for sure, but don't count the days down in despair, then you are paying for your life twice, don't die twice. The monotheisms want us to suffer, and despair, and feel guilt and shame, don't give in! Wear clothing that is too bright, whistle while you walk, cultivate your reason.
Quote from: OldGit on December 08, 2011, 05:31:16 PM
2200? Blimey, Tank, you're an optimist. :(
We do have younglings here who have got to live through the next 50/60 years. I have no idea what my grandson is going to experience in his lifetime.
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 05:58:26 PM
I have no idea what my grandson is going to experience in his lifetime.
Well, those who claim to see the future are liars, delusional or good with statistics and prone to gambling.
However, I think the changes will come gradually enough that those who live to experience them will still consider them a part of the only world they know... You can't really miss what you've never had. Then again, maybe the future will be a nicer time than the present. Unlikely, but still... In that case, that which we never had is ours not to miss.
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 05:58:26 PM
Quote from: OldGit on December 08, 2011, 05:31:16 PM
2200? Blimey, Tank, you're an optimist. :(
We do have younglings here who have got to live through the next 50/60 years. I have no idea what my grandson is going to experience in his lifetime.
You never know, we could end up like the people in WALL-E that just live in a huge spaceship ;D
Quote from: Asmodean on December 08, 2011, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 05:58:26 PM
I have no idea what my grandson is going to experience in his lifetime.
Well, those who claim to see the future are liars, delusional or good with statistics and prone to gambling.
However, I think the changes will come gradually enough that those who live to experience them will still consider them a part of the only world they know... You can't really miss what you've never had. Then again, maybe the future will be a nicer time than the present. Unlikely, but still... In that case, that which we never had is ours not to miss.
Asmolosophy at its finest.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 08, 2011, 06:04:19 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 05:58:26 PM
Quote from: OldGit on December 08, 2011, 05:31:16 PM
2200? Blimey, Tank, you're an optimist. :(
We do have younglings here who have got to live through the next 50/60 years. I have no idea what my grandson is going to experience in his lifetime.
You never know, we could end up like the people in WALL-E that just live in a huge spaceship ;D
Could be. WALL-E is one of my favourite films ever. The space dance with the fire extinguisher is just wonderful.
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 08, 2011, 06:04:19 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 05:58:26 PM
Quote from: OldGit on December 08, 2011, 05:31:16 PM
2200? Blimey, Tank, you're an optimist. :(
We do have younglings here who have got to live through the next 50/60 years. I have no idea what my grandson is going to experience in his lifetime.
You never know, we could end up like the people in WALL-E that just live in a huge spaceship ;D
Could be. WALL-E is one of my favourite films ever. The space dance with the fire extinguisher is just wonderful.
We watched it in my agriculture science class last year. I really enjoyed it, and it made me think about trying to help cut back unneeded waste.
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 06:04:57 PM
Asmolosophy at its finest.
Well... The Asmo is actually much wiser than he normally appears to be. :P
Quote from: TankI have no idea what my grandson is going to experience in his lifetime.
I have that worry, too.
Quote from: Scissorlegs on December 08, 2011, 05:16:02 PM
Without being too negative (and I'm quite happy to accept a reasonable assertion), one might argue that it's not even possible, given the distances involved and the frailty and infinitesimal lifespan of humans. Faster than light travel, space-folding and hyperspace travel or any other concept that is required to make intergalactic travel feasable (or even inter-star-system travel) may simply not be possible.
Interstellar travel is not possible with our current technology, but it may be possible with future technology.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 08, 2011, 06:07:49 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 08, 2011, 06:04:19 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 05:58:26 PM
Quote from: OldGit on December 08, 2011, 05:31:16 PM
2200? Blimey, Tank, you're an optimist. :(
We do have younglings here who have got to live through the next 50/60 years. I have no idea what my grandson is going to experience in his lifetime.
You never know, we could end up like the people in WALL-E that just live in a huge spaceship ;D
Could be. WALL-E is one of my favourite films ever. The space dance with the fire extinguisher is just wonderful.
We watched it in my agriculture science class last year. I really enjoyed it, and it made me think about trying to help cut back unneeded waste.
It made me think about hitting the gym.
Thank you for your responses. I think the epic scope of the universe's timeline in comparison to the transience of all life in the universe, not just mine, was what got to me. Counterbalancing it with the scope of our achievements seems to help.
One of the things that helped was watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos (on hulu.com). Season 1 Ep 13 "Who speaks for Earth?" He hand-waves some math and concludes it is very likely that the world will end in the next hundred years. Either through nuclear exchange, or climate change, or several other scenarios. You would think that would be even more depressing to me, but the ending helped a lot.
From single celled creatures to what we are now, is also epic in scope. Whether we wipe ourselves out relatively soon, or persist for as long as the universe supports life, we have accomplished a lot when you factor in where we came from. Yes, there's a lot of stupid, pointless suffering and waste, but some pretty impressive stuff too.
Who knows, maybe xSilverPhinx is right and someday we will create new universes. Or as mjolnir said we somehow sustain this one. Or humanity can escape to a parallel universe, or time travel or some such.
Thanks again for helping cheer me up.