This is my first real post. I know the rules have me limited to the "Laid Back Lounge". . . if I could have, I would have posted this in a different thread. But I'm a curious college kid, so here goes. I said I didn't want to argue - I didn't say I'd ask easy questions. Here's my first one.
What do you think of Jesus Christ?
I'm saddened that in some Christian circles, atheists have been stereotyped as thoughtless individuals. I don't believe this is true. Tell me what you think of Jesus.
EDIT: This is a mearged thread so continuity may be a little odd for the first couple of pages. Tank
Hey guys,
Just been reading more of everyone's thoughts. If this question needs to wait for the "big" forums, so be it. I'll wait. And post.
Sorry I didn't catch that rule before posting. Good rule, though! :)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3GKZM.png&hash=d7f190a76c6f3b9bf410fcea7968db2721722aa2) I do like a good Wensleydale.
Caution!
Ed is getting his number thinken pencil out again.
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 12:29:12 AM
This is my first real post. I know the rules have me limited to the "Laid Back Lounge". . . if I could have, I would have posted this in a different thread. But I'm a curious college kid, so here goes. I said I didn't want to argue - I didn't say I'd ask easy questions. Here's my first one.
What do you think of Jesus Christ?
I'm saddened that in some Christian circles, atheists have been stereotyped as thoughtless individuals. I don't believe this is true. Tell me what you think of Jesus.
I am thinking that Jesus is good with multiplication.
Consider this example: In mathematics, if you owe three people $10, then you are negative $30 (3 X -10 = $-30). If the lenders then say, "We forgive you for this debt because we love you," then you are free from that debt by another negative. You have just had three subtractions of -10, making you three positives of $10 (-3 X -$10). Your debt is -30 + 30 = Zero. Jesus died a horrible death to pay our debt, walking us back to a positive value. This is because two negatives multiplied make a positive. This is payment of debt.
I also think that this was the ultimate act of friendship and what a good Father does for a son. Why a Father and son? If God is the Father of Jesus, that makes us grandchildren. We are kinsmen since Jesus took on the form of a man. According to the Jubilee laws, we cannot be transferred to a new master unless the one redeeming us is a kinsmen. This is Leviticus law. God required Himself, by His own laws, to become a man. Payment is required. How did he have enough to redeem the entire human race? God requires our works to others in love as the wage we earn. Sin makes puts us in debt to the master of sin and death. Jesus suffered every step to earn what was necessary to all a change in masters. He redeems us, according to law, and we can allow our kinsmen to redeem our debt. God now sees us in light of our new master, as bond-servants of Christ. As servants, we are to do good works to others in faith. Our service is acceptable when we honor the master.
That's what I think. Glad you asked.
Thanks for your answer, SuperiorEd! I gather that you're not an atheist, right? How long have you held you're current view of Christ?
Hey everyone,
I'm not here to stay.
I said in my introduction that I had a couple questions. They're not easy, but here they are.
What do you think of Jesus Christ? And - whatever your opinion - how long have you had it?
Yes, I'll be honest: this is a class assignment. But I'm sadden to hear that within some circles, atheists have been stereotyped as unthoughtful individuals. I don't think this has to be the case. Prove me wrong.
You know what? I'd rather ask this of someone face-to-face. I don't want to use this site as a place to furnish myself with required research. But thanks for letting me post here. Maybe you will think about my question. I hope so. While you're at it, consider this too.
What is truth? (And remember..."there isn't any" doesn't count: it itself is a truth-claim.)
Know the answer and you'll be free.
First, since you state that atheists don't have to be unthoughtful, proving you wrong means proving that we ARE unthoughtful. I'd rather prove you right.
But, anyway...
- What do you think of Jesus Christ? And - whatever your opinion - how long have you had it?
Jesus Christ the man or Jesus Christ the son of the magical space daddy in the sky? Frankly, I don't think much of either since there's no compelling evidence to support the existence of either one. Jesus Christ the man exists nowhere in history outside of the bible or various other religious documents and the same can certainly be said for Jesus Christ the divine superhero. You might then ask "Well, why isn't the bible a credible source of evidence? It's just loaded with references to Jesus v0.1 the man and Jesus v0.2 the Son of God. Why can't you accept this as overwhelming proof of the truth of both Jesus...es?" Because the bible has hardly proven itself to be a credible source of history or even logic. It's laden with inconsistencies, fallacies, and just plain whacko fantasy. Referencing a greatly outdated book filled with apocryphal and preposterous claims that is clearly a product of its primitive times isn't going to win any arguments among atheists and it certainly isn't going to sway anyone who recognizes the value of rational thought.
I've held this view for about 20 years now and I came to embrace atheism after I stopped just believing what my religious leaders had been telling me since shildhood and started questioning what they had been telling me instead. Obviously, the answers in support of continued faith came up woefully short.
You need to post your grade here after you get it so we can all see what we got. ;D
I've never met this man. I'd rather not repeat hearsay.
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 05:01:32 AM
You know what? I'd rather ask this of someone face-to-face. I don't want to use this site as a place to furnish myself with required research. But thanks for letting me post here. Maybe you will think about my question. I hope so. While you're at it, consider this too.
What is truth? (And remember..."there isn't any" doesn't count: it itself is a truth-claim.)
Know the answer and you'll be free.
He/She bailed?
I wrote that well thought out response and he/she bailed? Well now I'm even MORE irritated with Xians. ::)
I haven't bailed. Thank you for your response. I'm not here to argue. (I posted elsewhere that I'm doing this for a class assignment.)
Have you read the New Testament?
I understand that you do not believe the Bible to be divinely inspired.
What do you think of my other question? What is truth?
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 05:45:39 AM
I haven't bailed. Thank you for your response. I'm not here to argue. (I posted elsewhere that I'm doing this for a class assignment.)
Have you read the New Testament?
I'm not here to argue either. You asked a direct question and I provided a considered response. You have no follow up questions based on my reply?
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 05:48:58 AMWhat do you think of my other question? What is truth?
Truth is a statement of fact. Now, what do you think truth is?
I think that if there was a historical Jesus (which I'm inclined to think there might have been) the stories about him in the bible are the result partly of his actions and teachings, the actions and teachings of others and part myth/legend. Saying that the bible is true or is a biographical record is a bit of a stretch.
I did ask a follow-up question: Have you read the New Testament?
Truth is what we as humans can rely on, something that is outside the "black box" of our existence. There is both subjective and objective truth. Subjective truth includes stuff like opinions ... "I like chocolate ice cream" for example. Objective truth includes facts that are independent of personal belief or opinion ... "the earth is round" for example.
You guys have answered my questions. Thank you.
I'm out for the night.
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 06:12:11 AM
I did ask a follow-up question: Have you read the New Testament?
Truth is what we as humans can rely on, something that is outside the "black box" of our existence. There is both subjective and objective truth. Subjective truth includes stuff like opinions ... "I like chocolate ice cream" for example. Objective truth includes facts that are independent of personal belief or opinion ... "the earth is round" for example.
Personal beliefs or opinions based on facts are still truth. "I like chocolate ice cream" is true if you like chocolate ice cream. If you say it but don't like chocolate ice cream, it's not a statement of fact and don't complain when you're offered a big bowl of choclate ice cream for dessert. Lies are not a statement of fact so they are not truth. Whether subjective or objective truth still remains a statement of genuine fact.
Your New Testament question had nothing to do with my reply to your initial question so, to me, it's not a follow-up, it's changing the subject. Still, yes, it was required reading in the Roman Catholic school I attented as a child and it was read to us by the nuns and priests that populated the schoool and the attached church and rectory.
Also, I find it amusing that a 2000 year old book is still being called New. By now it should be the Old testament and the Old Testament should be re-titled the Really Old Testament.
Just my $0.02
We're done? See hat felt like sex without an orgasm - unfinished. :(
Jesus Christ is a fictitious archetype, no different from Obi Kanobi in Star Wars. In fact George Lucas carried out archetype research before writing Star Wars to make sure he had characters that 'ticked all the boxes' for people in terms of moral certitude.
If you are interested then the thread 'Why God' (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8210.0) may interest you.
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 12:29:12 AM
What do you think of Jesus Christ?
Most likely fictional, possibly mentally ill and in any case long since dead Palestinian dude. That is pretty much all I thinbk of Jesus.
I think Jesus as he stands is a creation of Christianity, and originally probably a creation of some very Hellenised Jews. If there was a historical figure that the gospels stories were based on, I find it hard to disentangle him from all the mythology contained therein. The figure in the gospels appears to me to be an attempt to create a son of Yahweh similar to the numerous sons of Zeus around at the time, and to also create a Jewish suffering hero and philosopher. These Greek archetypes were then combined with the Jewish concept of the Messiah to create the biblical figure of Jesus.
as for the truth, I'll just stick to the dictionary definition;
1.The quality or state of being true.
2.That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.
as a Christian, your own personal idea of 'the truth' probably won't comply with point 2!
I reckon there may well have been a historical Jesus. There were scads of odd preachers wandering about in that area. What he actually said and did is probably beyond our reconstructing now, it's been so edited and added to and very likely pruned as well. Not even a christian can claim that we are told much about his life.
The basic concept of a rational, loving god requiring a blood sacrifice to let us off a hook of his own making - that's beyond sick. Even if he did suffer it himself. Whoever bolted that bit onto the story was pretty warped.
He was the good basis of a catchy musical ;D
What do I think of Jesus? I don't have much thought of Jesus any more. I'm not sure when that started, but it's been at least a decade.
What is truth? Truth is reality, it is what happened, how things work and how things are.
I think he may have existed but if so was nothing more than a disciple of John the Baptist and continued to preach those teachings after his death. I do not think he was a son of any kind of god. The Christian version of Jesus is nothing more than mythology that arose well after the time of his supposed death, the teachings were nothing great, in some places fucked up (sermon on the mount I'm looking at you) and actions even though nice don't inspire me in the slightest.
I categorize the Jesus myth the same as I do Heracles, Theseus, Achilles, Hanuman, Garuda, Gilgamesh, Memnon and Cúchulainn, they have all had an effect on culture that remains today; Gilgamesh I could argue has had the most impact on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam due to the epic of Gilgamesh stories that appear in Genesis.
It doesn't really matter if he was a real person or not to me as I have gained nothing from reading about his teachings or actions. In regards to his sufferings well he didn't really suffer that much, sure what was alleged to have happened wasn't nice in the slightest but it was mostly self-inflicted (most likely why certain christian monks hurt themselves). The concept of god sending part of himself to be killed for redemption of sins that he imposed on humanity is beyond stupidity especially considering that the concept of the christian god is all knowing, borrowing Ed's mathematical metaphor the logic equates rather than just forgiving that the person owed him money, he decided to burn some of his own money so he could forgive, so humans: -30 + 30 = 0, god: 30 - 30 - 30 = -30 maybe he wasn't a good mathematician after all because he is now worse off.
Quote from: Davin on December 05, 2011, 04:35:41 PM
What is truth? Truth is reality, it is what happened, how things work and how things are.
...or a personal perception thereof (Just to save me some typing, in case the OP still wants my opinion)
I think Jesus is a mixture of 10% historical persons and 90% myth.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on December 05, 2011, 12:23:34 PM
He was the good basis of a catchy musical ;D
Now I have that song in my head. XD
Didn't he make out with Judas?
Jesus was a dude who probably existed thousands of years ago, before my father and father's father father was even born.
He's not even attractive or interesting, and yet people want me to ask for redemption for a "crime" that happened before I even existed.
Anyway, he's lame.
At least the epic of gilgamesh story has many sexy versions, and even gorgeous fanart.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on December 06, 2011, 03:13:23 PM
At least the epic of gilgamesh story has many sexy versions, and even gorgeous fanart.
Pretty much all religions except Judaism, Christianity and Islam have great fantastical and sexy stories, the only good stuff from those religions comes from the book of enoch and that's not even canonical.
Quote from: Crow on December 06, 2011, 04:43:40 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on December 06, 2011, 03:13:23 PM
At least the epic of gilgamesh story has many sexy versions, and even gorgeous fanart.
Pretty much all religions except Judaism, Christianity and Islam have great fantastical and sexy stories, the only good stuff from those religions comes from the book of enoch and that's not even canonical.
christianity is only sexy cuz of angels, but I call that angel mythology and separate it completely.
So.. XD yeah, I still don't care for christianity, even myth wise.
What do I think of Jesus? He is a character in a religous scripture who may have some historical basis, from either one or numerous "messiahs" that ran around Palestine and Judea during the Roman occupation. What sets him (or this character) apart from most though is his hippie-idealogy, while most other "messiahs" were preaching a more violent way of getting rid of the romans. He also condratics himself, and un-shamefully copy-pastes philosophical ideas that had existed for centuries before the given time of "Jesus's" existance.
Also even if he did exist, he might not have been the messiah of the old testament, as pointed out by a YouTube user "ProfMTH", who has a 5 part series about the subject, where he uses the text of the bible to prove this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx5EKaY1B8g&feature=channel_video_title
Other then that, "meh" sums my thoughs quite well.
And "truth"? Well, like "god" it has many defenitions, and it depends upon the person which one is "more correct", so in other words it is subjective.
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 04:00:00 AM
Thanks for your answer, SuperiorEd! I gather that you're not an atheist, right? How long have you held you're current view of Christ?
33 years. Odd to say, but that's the number. For me, the heart knew but the mind had doubt. That was, until I realized that physics in in the first few verses of Genesis. This is no mistake. Light is both a particle and a wave. All particles have associated waves. Why is this important to someone who doubts the Bible? Simple. The observer collapses the indeterminate wave of infinity by changing the states in matter. Do a Google search for wave function collapse. The observer is necessary for matter to change states. Evolution is close, but lacks one thing--information. Why is this critical to Genesis 1? I'll get to that.
Remember this last bit of the story. The oak tree is enfolded into the acorn. If it gains union with the soil around it, it unfolds by design to become the mighty oak. At our essence, we are the information of our designer. We express this body by this essence to form. The essence can be saved or lost. As you look out across the ocean of reality, realize that you are only seeing the surface and the waves. You must dive deep to see what is hidden in the depths.
So dive.
Genesis 1
Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).
Einstein only let us know this in the last century. Random?
Remember, light is both a particle and a wave. That implies that all matter is both. Your body is matter, is it not? What else is key to your substance? Consciousness. Why is this important?
The trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus said that "I and the Father are one." They are a duality? Together, they are "The Great I AM." Catch that? Consciousness.
Why is the wave from light important to this discussion? They are one.
Father (Light / Prima Materia / God)
Son (Word form John 1 / Wave / Force / Laws / Programming of Nature form Image)
Holy Spirit (Consciousness)
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Can you overcome your doubt? I can and did.
Need more evidence?
Quote from: SuperiorEd on December 07, 2011, 12:11:50 AM
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 04:00:00 AM
Thanks for your answer, SuperiorEd! I gather that you're not an atheist, right? How long have you held you're current view of Christ?
33 years. Odd to say, but that's the number. For me, the heart knew but the mind had doubt. That was, until I realized that physics in in the first few verses of Genesis. This is no mistake. Light is both a particle and a wave. All particles have associated waves. Why is this important to someone who doubts the Bible? Simple. The observer collapses the indeterminate wave of infinity by changing the states in matter. Do a Google search for wave function collapse. The observer is necessary for matter to change states. Evolution is close, but lacks one thing--information. Why is this critical to Genesis 1? I'll get to that.
Remember this last bit of the story. The oak tree is enfolded into the acorn. If it gains union with the soil around it, it unfolds by design to become the mighty oak. At our essence, we are the information of our designer. We express this body by this essence to form. The essence can be saved or lost. As you look out across the ocean of reality, realize that you are only seeing the surface and the waves. You must dive deep to see what is hidden in the depths.
So dive.
Genesis 1
Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).
Einstein only let us know this in the last century. Random?
Remember, light is both a particle and a wave. That implies that all matter is both. Your body is matter, is it not? What else is key to your substance? Consciousness. Why is this important?
The trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus said that "I and the Father are one." They are a duality? Together, they are "The Great I AM." Catch that? Consciousness.
Why is the wave from light important to this discussion? They are one.
Father (Light / Prima Materia / God)
Son (Word form John 1 / Wave / Force / Laws / Programming of Nature form Image)
Holy Spirit (Consciousness)
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Can you overcome your doubt? I can and did.
Need more evidence?
All that and yet the jerk creates people that have absolutely no chance to get to the "heavens" (which the authors of the Bible thought were a sort of shell in the sky that had stars, sun, and moon embedded into it, and had floodgates that opened to cause the rain). Apparently the Bible was divinely inspired, which means God, who created all, didn't know about the lack of an actual firmament and the vast expanse of space that he created.
Quote from: SuperiorEd on December 07, 2011, 12:11:50 AM
Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).
I just want to hijack this thread for a a question that relates to the above.
SuperiorEd you say that physics is shown in genesis and have used the above as one of your examples, can you please define your definition of Time, Space, Matter and Energy? I ask this because the definition of these in physics do not equate with the way you have defined them in the example.
Quote from: SuperiorEd on December 07, 2011, 12:11:50 AM
Quote from: Phren-Seeker on December 05, 2011, 04:00:00 AM
Thanks for your answer, SuperiorEd! I gather that you're not an atheist, right? How long have you held you're current view of Christ?
33 years. Odd to say, but that's the number. For me, the heart knew but the mind had doubt. That was, until I realized that physics in in the first few verses of Genesis. This is no mistake. Light is both a particle and a wave. All particles have associated waves. Why is this important to someone who doubts the Bible? Simple. The observer collapses the indeterminate wave of infinity by changing the states in matter. Do a Google search for wave function collapse. The observer is necessary for matter to change states. Evolution is close, but lacks one thing--information. Why is this critical to Genesis 1? I'll get to that.
This is common misunderstanding of the wave function and a gross error used for "evidence" of a conscious being that created everything. There is more than just the faulty usage of the wave function that is wrong here. Even if this meant that nothing happens without an observer, there are some major problems with the creation of something from nothing as a result of an observer: the collapse of a wave function takes time, without time, there is no change in states from multiple possibilities to one possibility. The other problem is that the claimed observer is always observing everything, if that were the case, then humans collapsing the wave function by observation would not happen because it would have already been observed. Both of these problems point more to there not being an omnipotent and/or prime observer.
That being said, things happen at the quantum level without observation, the wave function is only used when we attempt to observe what is going on, not to make things go on.
Quote from: SuperiorEdRemember this last bit of the story. The oak tree is enfolded into the acorn. If it gains union with the soil around it, it unfolds by design to become the mighty oak. At our essence, we are the information of our designer. We express this body by this essence to form. The essence can be saved or lost. As you look out across the ocean of reality, realize that you are only seeing the surface and the waves. You must dive deep to see what is hidden in the depths.
So dive.
Wow, preach much? The assumption that we've not "dived" into the depths of this stuff is more than a little condescending. I assure you that the majority of us have dug in quite deep into many of the things you've brought up. If there is a problem with depth, it is because we tend to go deeper than theists.
Quote from: SuperiorEdGenesis 1
Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).
This looks more like looking back to try and make something fit into what we've discovered than something that was trying to show us what to discover. The origin story of Ra creating himself from the swirling, liquid mass of what he called his father is closer to the big bang theory, than even this modified version of the bible.
Quote from: SuperiorEdEinstein only let us know this in the last century. Random?
Remember, light is both a particle and a wave. That implies that all matter is both. Your body is matter, is it not? What else is key to your substance? Consciousness. Why is this important?
The trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus said that "I and the Father are one." They are a duality? Together, they are "The Great I AM." Catch that? Consciousness.
Why is the wave from light important to this discussion? They are one.
Father (Light / Prima Materia / God)
Son (Word form John 1 / Wave / Force / Laws / Programming of Nature form Image)
Holy Spirit (Consciousness)
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Can you overcome your doubt? I can and did.
This whole part did not make any sense.
Quote from: SuperiorEdNeed more evidence?
Well, any evidence is more than none, so yes.
Quote from: SuperiorEd on December 07, 2011, 12:11:50 AM
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).
Genesis 1.1 - 'In the beginning the god(s) created the heavens and the earth'
The reason why the first thing the god(s) do is separate the heavens from the earth is because the people who first wrote that verse thought that the universe was a flat earth surrounded by a domed heaven, something like this.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg4.imageshack.us%2Fimg4%2F7537%2Fhebrewbibleflatearth.jpg&hash=e26b3922b65583216be11ffe1f8dfd5e9e5c1020) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/hebrewbibleflatearth.jpg/)
hardly compatible with modern conceptions of the universe, and definitely not evidence that the Israelite god(s) created the universe!
Is that a bunch of Asmokin down in that grayness below..? ???
...Cool!
That said, believers do seem to attribute meanings to the words in their books, which are... Just not there.
If they did mean "Space and matter" by "Heaven and Earth", they would have written that. Those are very different concepts.
Additionally, if the supposed god did his first recorded thing "in the beginning", it was done within time, not "before" it. That would mean god does not necessarilly "predate" time, which means god is the Big Bang whih means you are probably a pantheist or something.
Why can't you people just read your book as what it is - a collection of stories by vastly ignorant people living in a vastly unpleasant time in a rather unpleasant place, hearding smelly, unpleasant goats.
What Asmo said. And I love the Asmo ghosts!!
That is my biggest issue, us that people take the bible and use it as facts, which is not only pathetic, but shows how little you are willing to think or argue.
And even if God created /is the big bang, that means he made an enviorment and people to live in it, but then abandoned the area, because as far as I have observed in life, he /she/it has yet to step in and actually intervine in anyone's life; to stop a rapist or murderer, or an innocent child from being trafficked. So yeah, I don't believe in a god, because even if one does exists, it is not worthy of my time or worship.
Quote from: Asmodean on December 07, 2011, 04:40:59 PM
Is that a bunch of Asmokin down in that grayness below..? ???
I think it is! That or the hattifatteners...
QuoteWhy can't you people just read your book as what it is - a collection of stories by vastly ignorant people living in a vastly unpleasant time in a rather unpleasant place, hearding smelly, unpleasant goats.
Unfortunately hearding wasn't the only thing the Israelites used to do with those smelly unpleasant goats (http://bible.cc/leviticus/18-23.htm) in between making up myths to try and explain their very simplistic view of the universe!
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 07, 2011, 05:05:34 PM
I think it is! That or the hattifatteners...
Oh! They related. They all Asmo's Swede-Finnish cousins.
Quote
Unfortunately hearding wasn't the only thing the Israelites used to do with those smelly unpleasant goats (http://bible.cc/leviticus/18-23.htm) in between making up myths to try and explain their very simplistic view of the universe!
Yeah... I did try to skip the less pleasant parts of what they did to smelly unpleasant goats... Come to think of it, they weren't all too pleasant with their daughters either, were they, those smelly hearders..? ???
I would like to meet your cousins, Asmo. XD
Quote from: Sweetdeath on December 07, 2011, 05:15:24 PM
I would like to meet your cousins, Asmo. XD
Just be carefull, Sweetdeath. Hattivatit (or hattifatterns or whatever..) create elecricity, so remember to keep your distance ;)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_uK-1AnOaRL4%2FTL6q-pu7CMI%2FAAAAAAAAAGs%2FYIDIFJkav2k%2Fs320%2FScreenshot_hattivattien_salaisuus-hattivatteja.jpg&hash=8ff5100778cf44885fb3c9b73c075553dc98d180)
Maaaaan, it's been such along time since I saw Muumit on tv....*sees what today passes as "childrens cartoons"*....ffffffuuuuuuuuu-
Quote from: Asmodean on December 07, 2011, 04:40:59 PM
Is that a bunch of Asmokin down in that grayness below..? ???
Asmokin in the grayness... otherwise known as dark matter? Some theists ask if God is in the dark matter. Perhaps that is where Asmo really resides?
What do I think of Jesus? I'm not really convinced the guy existed. It seems more likely that he was simply another myth that was taken too seriously by the wrong people.
What do I think of the character in the Bible? He seems like a Jewish kid that got into Buddhism in college. He's nice enough, but he's still a pretty arrogant dude and, while some of what he taught seems nice enough, a lot of what he said is pretty outlandish and even highly unethical by today's standards.
I think Jesus was probably one of the many rabbis of the time separating themselves from the establishment and preaching against the Roman occupation. Yeshua was a pretty common name, so perhaps there were more than one. The gospel writers went to great lengths to make an apparently real person fit the prophesies. He was Jesus of Nazareth, yet he was born in Bethlehem through a census that actually didn't happen. He had to be born in Bethlehem to fit the prophesies, so why not just make him Jesus of Bethlehem if you are going to make up a completely fictional story? I think there was a real Jesus of Nazareth whose followers turned into a messiah figure through the passing on of stories.
This Jesus figure has many modern-day examples of people who break from society to set up communes... David Koresh, Warren Jeffs, Tony Alamo. I'm not saying Jesus was a child-molesting religious cult leader. I'm not saying that.
Quote from: history_geek on December 07, 2011, 06:59:03 PM
Maaaaan, it's been such along time since I saw Muumit on tv....*sees what today passes as "childrens cartoons"*....ffffffuuuuuuuuu-
Moomin was amazing. *Goes to look on amazon*
I really like that explination, fester. XD
Yay, moomin! *__*
Fester30's explanation is also pretty much what I think. There is probably some infinitesimal sliver of reality, but anything beyond his name and the fact he was a preacher has been so distorted and bent to fit certain notions that there is no way of teasing out what he may or may not have said or done, so all we are left with is myths that sprang up around an itinerant preacher (or compilation of itinerant preachers).
I've read the entire bible through at least three times. I was a believer at the time, but looking back now, I laugh that I ever bought into such a book filled with such contradictions, hate, anger, and exclusion.
Jesus was a historical figure who lived long ago who got arrested and persecuted for blasphamy. He was quite the motivational speaker and had a knack for drawing crowds in & relating to people.
Quote from: fester30 on December 08, 2011, 03:05:57 PM
He was Jesus of Nazareth, yet he was born in Bethlehem through a census that actually didn't happen. He had to be born in Bethlehem to fit the prophesies, so why not just make him Jesus of Bethlehem if you are going to make up a completely fictional story? I think there was a real Jesus of Nazareth whose followers turned into a messiah figure through the passing on of stories.
I'm not saying that.
Yeah I always wondered that too... I never understood why he was called Jesus of Nazreth when he wasnt even born there
What do I think of Jesus? Well, he mows my neighbours yard reasonably well and at a fair price.
Seriously?
Christ Jesus never existed.
What do I think of what the authors have Christ Jesus say in the Gospels? The guy is morally bankrupt.
QuoteSo what DO you think of Jesus?
I see him as an imaginary person that wasn't even original in his teachings and sometime seven cruel
Right, Maria!
Also, they never point out that if the Jesus story is true, he never had sex. Not ever. Not even jerkin his gherkin.
What a loser that bloke was. No wonder his paid workers are a bit ... well ... funny in that department.
Quote from: OldGit on December 11, 2011, 02:49:18 PM
Right, Maria!
Also, they never point out that if the Jesus story is true, he never had sex. Not ever. Not even jerkin his gherkin.
What a loser that bloke was. No wonder his paid workers are a bit ... well ... funny in that department.
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that he never had sex?
Well, he wasn't married, so far as we're told, and he couldn't have ..... well ... surely he couldnt. That's a sin.
Quote from: OldGit on December 11, 2011, 03:35:54 PM
Well, he wasn't married, so far as we're told, and he couldn't have ..... well ... surely he couldnt. That's a sin.
Ah! So we are assuming he never had a shag or a wank then?
Exactly! Mind you, I suspect theologians would dress that statement up a bit. ;D
Quote from: Tank on December 11, 2011, 03:38:06 PM
Ah! So we are assuming he never had a shag or a wank then?
Maybe it was made a sin because he couldn't and didn't want others to have that kind of fun either..? *Jack Sparrow* He wasn't a eunuch, was he? */Sparrow*
Quote from: OldGit on December 11, 2011, 03:40:31 PM
Exactly! Mind you, I suspect theologians would dress that statement up a bit. ;D
maybe he was horribly disfigured and had Jeremy Beadle hands.
Aaagh! No - not the Beadle! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.venganza.org%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fth_FSMShocked-2.gif&hash=33e20a7783aff5c1afd00ece622bb6a9ebe108e2)
maybe he just couldn't get it up, or maybe like many of his followers down the ages, he just liked little boys. It was a lot more acceptable back then, and we do have possible evidence of it in the gospels;
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 9.14)
Maybe 'the kingdom of heaven' was a bit of a euphemism for JC!
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 11, 2011, 05:47:01 PM
maybe he just couldn't get it up, or maybe like many of his followers down the ages, he just liked little boys. It was a lot more acceptable back then, and we do have possible evidence of it in the gospels;
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 9.14)
Maybe 'the kingdom of heaven' was a bit of a euphemism for JC!
hahaha. Enough evidence for me, Jesus was a pedophile. hahaha... :D
Quote from: Too Few Lions on December 11, 2011, 05:47:01 PM
maybe he just couldn't get it up, or maybe like many of his followers down the ages, he just liked little boys. It was a lot more acceptable back then, and we do have possible evidence of it in the gospels;
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 9.14)
Maybe 'the kingdom of heaven' was a bit of a euphemism for JC!
This thread makes my week btw. <3
Quote from: Sweetdeath
This thread makes my week btw. <3
That's only cause I posted in it...*winkin atcha*
Quote from: Gawen on December 12, 2011, 12:25:36 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath
This thread makes my week btw. <3
That's only cause I posted in it...*winkin atcha*
^__~