I've got to confess that these sort of people make my shit itch. Apparently the Synagogue Church of All Nations (SCOAN) , which is based in Southwark, south London, is claiming it can cure HIV, cancer and all other illnesses through the power of 'God'. They believe their leader TB Joshua is a prophet with magical healing powers ::)
Sky News in the UK have done an expose on them and also found that at least six people have died in the UK after being told by churches that they had been cured by god. One of the pastors told the Sky News reporter, who is a genuine HIV sufferer, they had a 100% success rate, "We have many people that contract HIV. All are healed." Apparently patients are told to stop taking their medication and pray to god for forgiveness, which will supposedly cure them.
Apparently Sky News approached the church for a statement concerning their healing claims, and they said,
"We are not the Healer; God is the Healer. Never a sickness God cannot heal. Never a disease God cannot cure. Never a burden God cannot bear. Never a problem God cannot solve."
Fucking nutters, you can read the story here,
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16117269
and see the crazy fools in action here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd9oNTd7iyI
the hymn they sing is truly weird, 'I am covered by the blood of Jesus'...WTF!
We had this loon visit us earlier in the year, sponsored by mining companies he explained carbon is our friend, ridiculed respectable scientists and some people lapped it up. It's really annoying seeing idiots talking absolute shit and laughing about how stupid and corrupt climate scientists are.
QuoteMonckton states that "patients have been (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley) cured of various infectious diseases, including Graves' Disease, multiple sclerosis, influenza, and herpes simplex 6. Our first HIV patient had his viral titre reduced by 38% in five days, with no side-effects. Tests continue.
You guys seem to be producing all kinds of wonder cures these days, praise the lord.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F7%2F7a%2FMonckton-washington-09.jpg%2F180px-Monckton-washington-09.jpg&hash=5b1c9047498b858a69330e59704be2d38bd78010)
I've never heard of Christopher Monckton before, but after looking at the wikipedia page I can confirm that he does indeed look like a grade A tosser.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on November 25, 2011, 10:25:08 AM
I've got to confess that these sort of people make my shit itch. Apparently the Synagogue Church of All Nations (SCOAN) , which is based in Southwark, south London, is claiming it can cure HIV, cancer and all other illnesses through the power of 'God'. They believe their leader TB Joshua is a prophet with magical healing powers ::)
Over here, it's called Christian Science. I have a relative who's into that, one of his daughters has epilepsy and he blames her for taking medication to contol the seizures. If she had enough faith, she'd be able to become non-epileptic thru prayer.
Telling a HIV patient "stop taking your meds, cuz God made you all better" and then letting said person slowly die, completely unawares and unprepared for their death is seriously one of the most evil things I can think of.
If I was a family member of someone who actually followed this loony advice and died because of it, I'd be suing their asses.
They should be criminally prosecuted. Short and simple.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 26, 2011, 01:18:39 AM
They should be criminally prosecuted. Short and simple.
I couldn't agree more.
I thought we did have laws in that area. I know you can't make medicinal claims for stuff you sell. Maybe religious freedom trumps that - I don't understand this legal stuff. But something certainly needs to be done.
This is the problem with religious lunatics! They think they are above the law. "If you pray hard enough, you'll be cured."
That really burns me up!
OK, has anyone actually tested their claims? Have they given an example of an HIV healing, or has anyone refuted one of their alleged healings? Just askin'.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on November 28, 2011, 03:02:21 AM
This is the problem with religious lunatics! They think they are above the law. "If you pray hard enough, you'll be cured."
That really burns me up!
Hey religious lunatics, stop burning Sweetdeath up!
That's our job.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on November 26, 2011, 12:13:18 AM
Telling a HIV patient "stop taking your meds, cuz God made you all better" and then letting said person slowly die, completely unawares and unprepared for their death is seriously one of the most evil things I can think of.
Oh, let them..! If an HIV patient is dumb enough to trust some twat with a cross over a doctor with seven or eight years of education, he deserves whatever is coming for him in my book.
HIV is no longer a death sentence, so as I see it, if you don't want to live with the virus and take your meds, your alternatives are pretty much fuck the meds and die.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on November 28, 2011, 08:02:47 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on November 28, 2011, 03:02:21 AM
This is the problem with religious lunatics! They think they are above the law. "If you pray hard enough, you'll be cured."
That really burns me up!
Hey religious lunatics, stop burning Sweetdeath up!
That's our job.
Exactly! XP
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 28, 2011, 04:06:16 AM
or has anyone refuted one of their alleged healings? Just askin'.
6 fuckers dead = healing claims refuted.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 28, 2011, 04:06:16 AM
OK, has anyone actually tested their claims? Have they given an example of an HIV healing, or has anyone refuted one of their alleged healings? Just askin'.
There have been plenty of studies done on the healing abilities of prayer, with the results all over the place. In other words, about the same as what could be expected from doing nothing at all. If N&C is right, this religious group hasn't managed to change those findings.
Quote from: Asmodean on November 28, 2011, 09:11:38 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on November 26, 2011, 12:13:18 AM
Telling a HIV patient "stop taking your meds, cuz God made you all better" and then letting said person slowly die, completely unawares and unprepared for their death is seriously one of the most evil things I can think of.
Oh, let them..! If an HIV patient is dumb enough to trust some twat with a cross over a doctor with seven or eight years of education, he deserves whatever is coming for him in my book.
HIV is no longer a death sentence, so as I see it, if you don't want to live with the virus and take your meds, your alternatives are pretty much fuck the meds and die.
I get your point, but there's a reason why doctors need a license to give out medical advice - as a society we want people to actually know what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to life and death situations. These asshats obviously didn't and once they start using their authority to tell people what they should be doing with their physical bodies, as opposed to their "spiritual bodies" (or whatever), I think they should be as legally culpable as someone selling placebos who claim it can cure cancer.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on December 01, 2011, 12:04:08 AM
I get your point, but there's a reason why doctors need a license to give out medical advice - as a society we want people to actually know what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to life and death situations. These asshats obviously didn't and once they start using their authority to tell people what they should be doing with their physical bodies, as opposed to their "spiritual bodies" (or whatever), I think they should be as legally culpable as someone selling placebos who claim it can cure cancer.
Then there's the issue of sick kids whose parents go in for healing prayer exclusively, as opposed to tossing it in along with medical treatment. They don't have a choice, and I've heard people defend the parents on the grounds of both religious freedom and parental authority. I find it very hard to remain calm when explaining why I think a child's health, and possibly life, matter more than the parents "rights".
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 01, 2011, 12:33:39 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on December 01, 2011, 12:04:08 AM
I get your point, but there's a reason why doctors need a license to give out medical advice - as a society we want people to actually know what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to life and death situations. These asshats obviously didn't and once they start using their authority to tell people what they should be doing with their physical bodies, as opposed to their "spiritual bodies" (or whatever), I think they should be as legally culpable as someone selling placebos who claim it can cure cancer.
Then there's the issue of sick kids whose parents go in for healing prayer exclusively, as opposed to tossing it in along with medical treatment. They don't have a choice, and I've heard people defend the parents on the grounds of both religious freedom and parental authority. I find it very hard to remain calm when explaining why I think a child's health, and possibly life, matter more than the parents "rights".
Holy shit, I didn't even think of that. Yeah. That makes me sick. And angry.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 01, 2011, 12:33:39 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on December 01, 2011, 12:04:08 AM
I get your point, but there's a reason why doctors need a license to give out medical advice - as a society we want people to actually know what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to life and death situations. These asshats obviously didn't and once they start using their authority to tell people what they should be doing with their physical bodies, as opposed to their "spiritual bodies" (or whatever), I think they should be as legally culpable as someone selling placebos who claim it can cure cancer.
Then there's the issue of sick kids whose parents go in for healing prayer exclusively, as opposed to tossing it in along with medical treatment. They don't have a choice, and I've heard people defend the parents on the grounds of both religious freedom and parental authority. I find it very hard to remain calm when explaining why I think a child's health, and possibly life, matter more than the parents "rights".
Reminded me of an article in Pediatrics some years ago:
QuoteObjective. To evaluate deaths of children from families in which faith healing was practiced in lieu of medical care and to determine if such deaths were preventable.
Design. Cases of child fatality in faith-healing sects were reviewed. Probability of survival for each was then estimated based on expected survival rates for children with similar disorders who receive medical care.
Participants. One hundred seventy-two children who died between 1975 and 1995 and were identified by referral or record search. Criteria for inclusion were evidence that parents withheld medical care because of reliance on religious rituals and documentation sufficient to determine the cause of death.
Results. One hundred forty fatalities were from conditions for which survival rates with medical care would have exceeded 90%. Eighteen more had expected survival rates of >50%. All but 3 of the remainder would likely have had some benefit from clinical help.
Conclusions. When faith healing is used to the exclusion of medical treatment, the number of preventable child fatalities and the associated suffering are substantial and warrant public concern. Existing laws may be inadequate to protect children from this form of medical neglect.
Asser, S. & Swan, R. (1998). Child Fatalities From Religion-motivated Medical Neglect.
Pediatrics, 101(4), 625-629.
That article broke my heart...
There clearly needs to be a line and law drawn when it comes to "religious rights."