Hello Everyone! This is a very long post. FEEL FREE TO SCROLL DOWN TO THE VERY BOTTOM WHERE MY REAL QUESTIONS LIE. If you're brave and have spare time, read, and help me with my other questions.
Upbeat, energetic, and a lively person, my smiling face is everywhere- I love to be around people and experience new things.
But recently I've found myself experiencing something very unwelcome. I broke up with my ex-boyfriend who is one of the most depressed and angry people I've ever met. Hates crowds, hates leaving the house, hates noises... on top of that he's been very sick. IMMEDIATELY after I break up with him, he proceeded to tell me he's dying! Stage four Melanoma, fresh from the doctors.
I'm a naturalist who's into positive thinking, organic shit, and healing yourself naturally through powerful herbs... but more importantly: a healthy attitude, thirst for life, and personal responsibility for what you do to your body.
Ah, but I'm all about being honest with yourself as well! I love facing a hard truth. Healthy cynicism!
DEATH sucks in my eyes! As an atheist, I view that THIS IS THE ONLY LIFE WE HAVE! And hopefully we choose to live it with the most PASSION AND VIGOR we can create! Death itself isn't bad in many ways, but for me, I'll be very upset if I DON'T GET MY MONEY'S WORTH! So I'm all about living life to it's awesome brim.
But I find myself extremely angry over his so called death. I hate death and the misgivings people have about death.
Why?
For many reasons- most of them selfish and to simply protect myself. But that aside, I would love your input on other areas.
The first one is the ILLUSION OF LIFE
It seems like a lot of people feel like Life is the natural state of things. When I tell people that my ex-boyfriend is dying, they ask "What is he dying from?" I don't feel like this is the right question. "Why is he NOT DYING?"
He smokes, drinks, hates himself, hates life, hates people, eats NOTHING but over-processed food cooked in a microwave, Dr. Pepper, and chips. This is his diet, I'm not kidding or exaggerating. NO VEGETABLES, NO FRUIT, NOTHING FRESH, GROWN, ANYTHING. Not even anything semi-healthy. Junk food. 100% And an addicted gamer living in his own dirt and filth.
I believe he's killing himself.
He's dying of "cancer" but what caused the cancer? Chris said smoking, an alcohol dependency, and what he ate had nothing to do with it. He believes, as his friends and family, that he's dying from Cancer caused by a single full body-sunburn over 10 years ago. Stage four Melanoma. But seriously, where is the personal responsibility? Where is the honesty? Like it doesn't fester in unhealthy environments.
The illusion of life is that you're SUPPOSED TO LIVE. No, you're not. YOU'LL DIE IF YOU STOP TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF.
He's been dying for YEARS and excuses and lies poured out of his mouth about why he has ongoing pain. "Oh, I just have a cold." "Oh, this is genetic, I can't do anything about it." "The doctors don't know what's wrong with me." More importantly- he didn't honestly seek out medical help or relief from his pain that was slowly crippling him. He would rather stay home and play video games that find out why he was losing his ability to walk.
This leads me to my second question.
IS THIS DARWINISM?
I don't believe Darwinism in a literal, straightforward sense. As a tiny girl who could be raped, beaten, and killed tomorrow... the idea that the "strong" survive scares me. Strength comes in many ways, but my strength comes from my honesty and my WILL to survive... and my need to spread love and happiness (though you won't get an accurate picture of my love from this post, I assure you.)
Even so... it's clear to me that he didn't try "save" himself. He would rather live in pain than find out ways to heal himself. Forget if it's possible or not, or even what caused it, but he didn't even TRY!
Forget if choosing to die is right or wrong because he's ANGRY at dying, and I believe he doesn't want to die. But he's embracing death with a licking happy anger.. like to prove a point how terrible the world is. Like it's a final stone of his shitty life.
Seriously though, there are people diagnosed with terminal illnesses all the time and they FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT and so many them, I mean TONS OF THEM change their ENTIRE LIVES, try things that fail, and find out ways to LIVE! And even the truly dying ones go and LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST or die happily and gracefully.
The human body and mind are SO POWERFUL! We are such AMAZING creatures!
So is this Darwinism? Not experimenting with what makes you feel better? Forget everything you know about the medical community, science, philosophy- everything. If you begrudge death, isn't it your personal responsibly to make sure you survive, find out how to survive, and fight for survival? Hopefully to a satisfactory level?
My third musing for you to help me discuss is this:
HOW DEATH IS TREATED- AND HOW WE TREAT THE DYING
Chris' family is treating him like he's already dead. Chris said himself: "I'm going to die." SAYS WHO? A FUCKING DOCTOR???? People who are terminal survive all the time! I told him : FIGHT! HEAL YOURSELF! YOU CAN DO IT! I'LL HELP YOU! YOU DON'T HAVE TO DIE!
But his family and friends say "Oh, he's dying." "He's going to die." And they let him carry on smoking and buy him alcohol... I mean... a lot of alcohol to drown his pain in. I personally feel that they're enabling him to die. As if they're snuffing out any chance he has left. Even if he chooses to die or speed up the process, he doesn't be a dick about it.
So..... should I feel sorry for him? Because everyone is treating him like gold.... like he's a powerless little lamb... and like it's some sort of huge tragedy. He's upset he's dying, and everyone is treating him so well for it, but he's chose not to fight or seek treatment of any kind. And chose to be mean to people on top of it.
Is your death some horrible personal tragedy if you refused treatment all your life and abused your body so willingly?
Why do I have to be nice to you, no matter how sick you are, if you're being an asshole?
Why does dying give you the right to be an asshole?
At your funeral, will everyone lie and say how wonderful you were, when you weren't?
Why do people have to make excuses for people dying of their own hand?
Wouldn't it be more honest to say "I'm sad you're dying, and some of your qualities are awesome, but I wish you didn't help kill yourself. That was a dick move for everyone."
My fourth question, and the most selfish, is SHOULD I FEEL REALLY BAD?
In all honesty, I feel terrible. I cry all the time, but not for him. I cry for me.
I'm so angry because I begged him, bitched at him, lectured him, screamed at him, and even tried to bribe him with sexual favors.. to take care of himself for our entire relationship. Yes, that doesn't exactly motivate people, I know. He's a handsome and intelligent man who loved me very much. But I grew weary of his excuses and inability to take care of himself mentally or physically. He was making me DEPRESSED! I chose to save myself and get away from this incredibly angry, depressed, and sick man.
Note: I was not the perfect girlfriend by any means. As he got sicker and sicker, I got frightened and found him revolting. I distanced myself emotionally and physically from him which only made him more depressed and secluded.
I battled with myself over a year weather to leave him and finally did! And now he's dying. I cut the cord when he supposedly needs me the most.
It's not politically correct to get angry at someone who has cancer.
But why should I visit him, go to his funeral, or humor him at all when it doesn't change the fact that he was a shitty boyfriend? I radiated happiness, love, and excitement. He loved me so much for this. He radiated anger, depression, and smelled like death, and he seemed unwilling to do things for me.. He loved me very much, but what about my happiness? I begged him to get better for me in the very beginning of our relationship to the very end. I begged him to live and be happy because I needed him to be healthy. What if something happened to me? I CAN'T take care of you! Who's going to take care of me if you won't take care of yourself! None of my needs were being met because he chose to life his life this way.
And now I feel like I'm portrayed as the bitch who broke up with him while he's dying on his deathbed.
Yes, I've thought about going back to him. Yes, he wasn't taking care of my needs and did plenty of things to hurt me (which I won't mention because details aren't important) but if he's going to die within a month, why shouldn't I go back to him so I can provide him with unmatched love, support, and comfort? Die with a girlfriend by his side instead of alone and angry?
But what were DYING and you wanted to have sex? If you ou looked terrible, smelled terrible, and the sex would be horrifying for me.... What if you wanted one last ride? Sexual favors? How could I not give that to you- a dying man's wish, no matter how much it would repulse me?
How could I pretend in front of your family that all of this, is... just ok... and it's not your fault that you're dying? That it's fine for you to smoke and drink on your deathbed, for you to talk about killing people and taking them with you, being angry at everyone, and we're just going to accept everything that Chris wants just because he's dying? Who are you to make everyone miserable with your death?
But I'm all about honesty. It will kill me when I see him bed ridden, sunken, blind, and sick.. If you didn't want to save yourself, why should I give you the honor? I love you, but I hate you. I really do. It would be all a farce to "see him to the end" or "do what's right." But more importantly, to relieve my own guilt about leaving him. I felt like I had no choice but to leave for my own survival because his depression was driving me crazy. Now it would scar me emotionally for life- watching you die in person while I cried over you, terrified like I've never been terrified before.
Why should I let you scar me... if you didn't want to save yourself?
You can just DIE while I beg you not to for the whole time I've known you, and I'm supposed to be ok with that? I don't feel like I deserve this. I would have done anything for him to live, but he wasn't on board. Even now I would do anything if he only changed his mind. I don't want to, but I feel obligated to try. Help heal him if he only gave it a chance... even if it were a small chance he's survive. (I'm talking about paying for expensive herbs and working on him medicinally- forcing things down his throat if he'd only take them and stop drinkings/smoking.)
I feel like he chose sickness over me. That's not morally a problem, except he's mad at me for it.
I maintain there's a small chance for survival if he FOUGHT WITH EVERYTHING. I could be wrong of course, I that's what I believe. But it seems like he's so willing to die and everyone around him is suffering for it. My mom says he doesn't feel like he has a choice, which might be true. But anyone can just accept death from anything. Do you willingly be kidnapped? Will you lie down and take rape? Allow an animal tear you to pieces once you've let fear sink in? The harder you fight an attacker and the more knowledge you seek increases the chances of you surviving.
"I, I, I, I, me, me, me, me...." Deep down, I know this isn't about me. It's about him and his depression. In death, there are no right answers. I'm scrapping over the fact that depression, anxiety, and addictions are complex issues.... even if one was truly powerless over these...
My final questions:
HOW CAN I BE HAPPY AND POSITIVE THROUGH DEATH?
I always told myself that when the sun rains fire, I'll laugh and sing until I die. I am all about HAPPINESS AND SATISFACTION. Though this is giving me a run for my money, I want to LOVE THE FUCK OUT OF THIS SITUATION and be UNACCEPTABLY HAPPY ABOUT this instead of angry and self-righteous.
You might say, well, grief is part of the natural healing process.
WHY SHOULD I SUFFER? IS SUFFERING REALLY NECESSARY? And why should I feel sad about it when I only feel sad for myself and a searing hatred for him?
I have a few ideas, of course, but they're not getting me very far. They are:
Instead of being angry at his friends and family for accepting his death and his excuses, I should recognize their pain and anguish instead of being selfish.
I should feel lucky that I'm experiencing death of a loved one so soon, and learn from it to help me deal with the next one.
I recognize I need someone who is just as excited about life as I am.
Recognize he was sick before I met him and his isn't something I could have easily helped with.
Recognize that this an exciting new chapter for my life.
BUT WHAT ELSE?
WHY DOES DEATH HAVE TO BE SO BAD? DO WE HAVE TO GRIEF ABOUT IT? HOW DO YOU CELEBRATE DEATH IF HE HAS NO AFTERLIFE? AM I ALLOWED TO BE HAPPY AND CARRY ON WITH MY LIFE WHILE SOMEONE IS DYING?
My mom says I should talk to a psychologist over my grief. I say I need a philosopher.
I'm sure you might disagree with many statements I've made, but please listen to what I'm trying to say. I'm interested in my last questions more than anything.
I've made the conscious choice to be cheerful and happy instead of rolling around on the floor crying (which I've been doing.) Yet, my guilt is holding me down. I'm struggling with the morality of being happy and going on with my life while someone I care about is dying.
WHAT ARE SOME PHILOSOPHIES WHICH POINT TO THE POSITIVE SIDES OF DEATH INSTEAD OF A CRIPPLING SAD ONE? (Because I don't believe in an afterlife) HOW CAN I RESPECT DEATH AND STILL BE HAPPY WHILE IT'S IS GOING ON?
Lend me your philosophy!
uhhhhhhhh. Hello?
Edit: Sorry, that may have come across as rude. But for your first post, that was a pretty, um, intense introduction. We've had a few posters who've come in here lately with guns blazings with very large walls of nonsensical texts. My poor brain can only handle so much. ???
As for trying to find the "light" side of death, I don't know that you'll find many answers here. Many people feel that death is just the natural progression of life. I'm one of those people. Death is inevitable and there's nothing we can do about it, and I find that strangely comforting. If you don't believe in an afterlife and you don't feel that way, I'm not sure that we will be able to convince you that it's a "happy" thing.
I'm sorry that you seem to be going through a rough time right now, I would encourage you to read around a little bit and get a feel for the environment here. :) There are some good folk here. :)
Hi!
Death is an inevitable result of life, but for most people it isn't exactly bright nor cheerful.
Watching someone die can often be far worse than dying yourself, not that that is any consolation, I think...
I'm a bit too cold to be easily upset by death, so... Can't really help much.
I love the whole life/death cycle.
Without it we would never have any progress.
People form most of their personality, likes/dislikes, life philosophy in their first 20 years.
Why do you think so many people are stuck in the 80s or 70s etc?
I love 80's music, I like 80's fashion.
Well, my point is that it is great that people with old fashioned ideologies are going to die. With it so will sexism (with regards to the idea that the woman is the homemaker), so will religion.
Without death we would never evolve physically or socially.
Quote from: Stevil on September 26, 2011, 06:26:29 PM
Well, my point is that it is great that people with old fashioned ideologies are going to die. With it so will sexism (with regards to the idea that the woman is the homemaker), so will religion.
Without death we would never evolve physically or socially.
This^
As for you, Octomantis, I don't think I can provide an answer you would like to hear, I've become a bit of a nihilist myself lately.
So you are mad at your ex boyfriend because he can't cure himself of cancer? People can't magically will themselves to heal; positive thinking may help a little but isn't a cure all..lots of positive people die from cancer and lots of non-positive people manage to survive. Life just isn't fair...doesn't seem right to be mad at someone for dying of a disease that kills so easily and that isn't necessarily caused by lifestyle. Sorry.
Hello, and welcome to HAF,
Octomantis. I hope it has helped you to write all of this out, because I'm not sure that I can be any other help. I will respond though.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PM
Hello Everyone! This is a very long post. FEEL FREE TO SCROLL DOWN TO THE VERY BOTTOM WHERE MY REAL QUESTIONS LIE. If you're brave and have spare time, read, and help me with my other questions.
I read your entire post, not because I'm brave, but because I'm curious. Like I said above, I don't know that I'll be any help to you though. I am sympathetic, having had several friends die and having been at the bedside of somebody close to me (I took care of her for the last several months of her life) as they were dying.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMUpbeat, energetic, and a lively person, my smiling face is everywhere- I love to be around people and experience new things.
This is important, and I hope that you hold onto your outlook once you've made it through this period of your life.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMBut recently I've found myself experiencing something very unwelcome. I broke up with my ex-boyfriend who is one of the most depressed and angry people I've ever met. Hates crowds, hates leaving the house, hates noises... on top of that he's been very sick. IMMEDIATELY after I break up with him, he proceeded to tell me he's dying! Stage four Melanoma, fresh from the doctors.
I'm a naturalist who's into positive thinking, organic shit, and healing yourself naturally through powerful herbs... but more importantly: a healthy attitude, thirst for life, and personal responsibility for what you do to your body.
Ah, but I'm all about being honest with yourself as well! I love facing a hard truth. Healthy cynicism!
DEATH sucks in my eyes! As an atheist, I view that THIS IS THE ONLY LIFE WE HAVE! And hopefully we choose to live it with the most PASSION AND VIGOR we can create! Death itself isn't bad in many ways, but for me, I'll be very upset if I DON'T GET MY MONEY'S WORTH! So I'm all about living life to it's awesome brim.
But I find myself extremely angry over his so called death. I hate death and the misgivings people have about death.
Why?
For many reasons- most of them selfish and to simply protect myself. But that aside, I would love your input on other areas.
The first one is the ILLUSION OF LIFE
It seems like a lot of people feel like Life is the natural state of things. When I tell people that my ex-boyfriend is dying, they ask "What is he dying from?" I don't feel like this is the right question. "Why is he NOT DYING?"
He smokes, drinks, hates himself, hates life, hates people, eats NOTHING but over-processed food cooked in a microwave, Dr. Pepper, and chips. This is his diet, I'm not kidding or exaggerating. NO VEGETABLES, NO FRUIT, NOTHING FRESH, GROWN, ANYTHING. Not even anything semi-healthy. Junk food. 100% And an addicted gamer living in his own dirt and filth.
I believe he's killing himself.
I agree that he was working on killing himself before the cancer, and that his negative attitude made him unhealthy. Now he won't have to work on it any more; the cancer will finish what he started.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMHe's dying of "cancer" but what caused the cancer? Chris said smoking, an alcohol dependency, and what he ate had nothing to do with it. He believes, as his friends and family, that he's dying from Cancer caused by a single full body-sunburn over 10 years ago. Stage four Melanoma. But seriously, where is the personal responsibility? Where is the honesty? Like it doesn't fester in unhealthy environments.
The illusion of life is that you're SUPPOSED TO LIVE. No, you're not. YOU'LL DIE IF YOU STOP TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF.
He's been dying for YEARS and excuses and lies poured out of his mouth about why he has ongoing pain. "Oh, I just have a cold." "Oh, this is genetic, I can't do anything about it." "The doctors don't know what's wrong with me." More importantly- he didn't honestly seek out medical help or relief from his pain that was slowly crippling him. He would rather stay home and play video games that find out why he was losing his ability to walk.
Denial is common among positive people, just as among negative people. Maybe if he had gone to have himself checked up a year or two years ago, something might have been done. Once melanoma is in stage IV though, pretty much all that can be done is to try to alleviate suffering, and to try to make what remains of the person's life as pleasant as possible.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMThis leads me to my second question.
IS THIS DARWINISM?
I don't believe Darwinism in a literal, straightforward sense. As a tiny girl who could be raped, beaten, and killed tomorrow... the idea that the "strong" survive scares me. Strength comes in many ways, but my strength comes from my honesty and my WILL to survive... and my need to spread love and happiness (though you won't get an accurate picture of my love from this post, I assure you.)
Even so... it's clear to me that he didn't try "save" himself. He would rather live in pain than find out ways to heal himself. Forget if it's possible or not, or even what caused it, but he didn't even TRY!
Forget if choosing to die is right or wrong because he's ANGRY at dying, and I believe he doesn't want to die. But he's embracing death with a licking happy anger.. like to prove a point how terrible the world is. Like it's a final stone of his shitty life.
Seriously though, there are people diagnosed with terminal illnesses all the time and they FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT and so many them, I mean TONS OF THEM change their ENTIRE LIVES, try things that fail, and find out ways to LIVE! And even the truly dying ones go and LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST or die happily and gracefully.
The human body and mind are SO POWERFUL! We are such AMAZING creatures!
So is this Darwinism? Not experimenting with what makes you feel better? Forget everything you know about the medical community, science, philosophy- everything. If you begrudge death, isn't it your personal responsibly to make sure you survive, find out how to survive, and fight for survival? Hopefully to a satisfactory level?
No, this has very little if anything to do with the theory of evolution, and I actually don't understand what you mean by "Darwinism" given the context in which you used it.
It doesn't seem to me that his man has lived a good life, and I doubt that he will die a good death. As I said above, at this point it seems he doesn't have very long, and from your description, it seems that he will be wasting what little time he has in anger and self-pity.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMMy third musing for you to help me discuss is this:
HOW DEATH IS TREATED- AND HOW WE TREAT THE DYING
Chris' family is treating him like he's already dead. Chris said himself: "I'm going to die." SAYS WHO? A FUCKING DOCTOR???? People who are terminal survive all the time! I told him : FIGHT! HEAL YOURSELF! YOU CAN DO IT! I'LL HELP YOU! YOU DON'T HAVE TO DIE!
But his family and friends say "Oh, he's dying." "He's going to die." And they let him carry on smoking and buy him alcohol... I mean... a lot of alcohol to drown his pain in. I personally feel that they're enabling him to die. As if they're snuffing out any chance he has left. Even if he chooses to die or speed up the process, he doesn't be a dick about it.
If your description about him is accurate, he would have to make a huge change in his outlook on life (and death) to "not be a dick about it." I don't know if he has enough time for that, especially since it doesn't sound like he really wants to change. If the cigarettes and alcohol are a comfort to him, I wouldn't begrudge them. You are going to have to come to terms with the fact that, given his attitude, and given the prognosis for stage IV melanoma (http://www.malignant-melanoma.net/stage-4-melanoma.php), this man is going to die. Really the only choice he can make right now is in how he confronts that fact. That is the same choice you have to make.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMSo..... should I feel sorry for him? Because everyone is treating him like gold.... like he's a powerless little lamb... and like it's some sort of huge tragedy. He's upset he's dying, and everyone is treating him so well for it, but he's chose not to fight or seek treatment of any kind. And chose to be mean to people on top of it.
Is your death some horrible personal tragedy if you refused treatment all your life and abused your body so willingly?
Yes, death is a personal tragedy, even if a person helped bring it about, either consciously or unconsciously. I don't think it's a matter of "should" you feel sorry for him. Right now, what you feel is what you feel, and "should" doesn't really come into it.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMWhy do I have to be nice to you, no matter how sick you are, if you're being an asshole?
Why does dying give you the right to be an asshole?
You should treat this person in the way that will allow you to look back on this period of your life without regret. It sounds like he's been pretty much an asshole most of his life, and now that he's dying he's just indulging that tendency. You should only put up with as much of that as you are comfortable with, and don't let him manipulate you too much.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMAt your funeral, will everyone lie and say how wonderful you were, when you weren't?
Funerals are for the survivors. Whatever makes them feel better is what is appropriate, in my opinion, even if the whole thing is a tissue of lies. If you're not comfortable with that, but feel that you should be there, go and show your face and then leave. You don't bear any responsibility to lie about the dead, even if that is the order of the day.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMWhy do people have to make excuses for people dying of their own hand?
Wouldn't it be more honest to say "I'm sad you're dying, and some of your qualities are awesome, but I wish you didn't help kill yourself. That was a dick move for everyone."
I doubt that that kind of honesty will help this person right now, but it might help you. The thing is, his lifestyle may have had nothing to do with this particular cancer. While as I said above, it sounds as if he was slowly killing himself before the cancer, there isn't necessarily a direct causal relation between that self-destructive behavior and his present condition, other than his denial and refusal to get himself checked when symptoms first appeared. Recriminations aren't going to do him any good now, but if you think that being perfectly honest with him about how you feel will help you deal with his dying and death, then let him have it. If he chooses to shut you out of what little remains of his life, I don't think that it will be much of a loss for you, but there is a chance that together you can come to terms with what's going on.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMMy fourth question, and the most selfish, is SHOULD I FEEL REALLY BAD?
In all honesty, I feel terrible. I cry all the time, but not for him. I cry for me.
I'm so angry because I begged him, bitched at him, lectured him, screamed at him, and even tried to bribe him with sexual favors.. to take care of himself for our entire relationship. Yes, that doesn't exactly motivate people, I know. He's a handsome and intelligent man who loved me very much. But I grew weary of his excuses and inability to take care of himself mentally or physically. He was making me DEPRESSED! I chose to save myself and get away from this incredibly angry, depressed, and sick man.
Note: I was not the perfect girlfriend by any means. As he got sicker and sicker, I got frightened and found him revolting. I distanced myself emotionally and physically from him which only made him more depressed and secluded.
I battled with myself over a year weather to leave him and finally did! And now he's dying. I cut the cord when he supposedly needs me the most.
That is the past. I think you made the right choice. You are still part of his life though, which is why you've written this. You can try to help to provide some comfort to him, if you think that will help you cope with the aftermath of all of this. You're not wrong to also think of yourself right now, and you can't help how you feel about him.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMIt's not politically correct to get angry at someone who has cancer.
But why should I visit him, go to his funeral, or humor him at all when it doesn't change the fact that he was a shitty boyfriend? I radiated happiness, love, and excitement. He loved me so much for this. He radiated anger, depression, and smelled like death, and he seemed unwilling to do things for me.. He loved me very much, but what about my happiness? I begged him to get better for me in the very beginning of our relationship to the very end. I begged him to live and be happy because I needed him to be healthy. What if something happened to me? I CAN'T take care of you! Who's going to take care of me if you won't take care of yourself! None of my needs were being met because he chose to life his life this way.
And now I feel like I'm portrayed as the bitch who broke up with him while he's dying on his deathbed.
It doesn't matter what you're portrayed as. His family are going through a rough time, and if putting some blame on you, even if it isn't warranted, helps them feel a little better about themselves, then that's what they'll do. Why should you care? It sounds like your being part of his life brought something into it that was positive, but you can't force people to change who don't want to change. Consider the good times that you had together as something he probably wouldn't have had without you there. That alone is a good thing, but his family weren't there then, and only see what's going on now. They'll think what they want to think; you should try to keep your positive outlook by remembering the good things that you shared with this person.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMYes, I've thought about going back to him. Yes, he wasn't taking care of my needs and did plenty of things to hurt me (which I won't mention because details aren't important) but if he's going to die within a month, why shouldn't I go back to him so I can provide him with unmatched love, support, and comfort? Die with a girlfriend by his side instead of alone and angry?
But what were DYING and you wanted to have sex? If you ou looked terrible, smelled terrible, and the sex would be horrifying for me.... What if you wanted one last ride? Sexual favors? How could I not give that to you- a dying man's wish, no matter how much it would repulse me?
How could I pretend in front of your family that all of this, is... just ok... and it's not your fault that you're dying? That it's fine for you to smoke and drink on your deathbed, for you to talk about killing people and taking them with you, being angry at everyone, and we're just going to accept everything that Chris wants just because he's dying? Who are you to make everyone miserable with your death?
But I'm all about honesty. It will kill me when I see him bed ridden, sunken, blind, and sick.. If you didn't want to save yourself, why should I give you the honor? I love you, but I hate you. I really do. It would be all a farce to "see him to the end" or "do what's right." But more importantly, to relieve my own guilt about leaving him. I felt like I had no choice but to leave for my own survival because his depression was driving me crazy. Now it would scar me emotionally for life- watching you die in person while I cried over you, terrified like I've never been terrified before.
Why should I let you scar me... if you didn't want to save yourself?
You can just DIE while I beg you not to for the whole time I've known you, and I'm supposed to be ok with that? I don't feel like I deserve this. I would have done anything for him to live, but he wasn't on board. Even now I would do anything if he only changed his mind. I don't want to, but I feel obligated to try. Help heal him if he only gave it a chance... even if it were a small chance he's survive. (I'm talking about paying for expensive herbs and working on him medicinally- forcing things down his throat if he'd only take them and stop drinkings/smoking.)
I feel like he chose sickness over me. That's not morally a problem, except he's mad at me for it.
I don't think you would do yourself any good by "going back to him." And probably it wouldn't do him much good either. So do what you can, and provide some company to him, but there's no point in acting as if your decision to leave him wasn't justified, and that you've changed your mind about that.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMI maintain there's a small chance for survival if he FOUGHT WITH EVERYTHING. I could be wrong of course, I that's what I believe. But it seems like he's so willing to die and everyone around him is suffering for it. My mom says he doesn't feel like he has a choice, which might be true. But anyone can just accept death from anything. Do you willingly be kidnapped? Will you lie down and take rape? Allow an animal tear you to pieces once you've let fear sink in? The harder you fight an attacker and the more knowledge you seek increases the chances of you surviving.
From what I know about stage IV melanoma, I think that you would do better to accept that he's dying, and make your decisions based on that acceptance.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMMy final questions:
HOW CAN I BE HAPPY AND POSITIVE THROUGH DEATH?
I always told myself that when the sun rains fire, I'll laugh and sing until I die. I am all about HAPPINESS AND SATISFACTION. Though this is giving me a run for my money, I want to LOVE THE FUCK OUT OF THIS SITUATION and be UNACCEPTABLY HAPPY ABOUT this instead of angry and self-righteous.
I've never managed to feel happy about somebody dying. There was one person whose death would have pleased me, but I left that situation behind me, and I don't know if they're alive or dead now. Once your ex-boyfriend has died, you will be free to go on with your life, which will be something to be happy about.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMYou might say, well, grief is part of the natural healing process.
WHY SHOULD I SUFFER? IS SUFFERING REALLY NECESSARY? And why should I feel sad about it when I only feel sad for myself and a searing hatred for him?
Self-pity seems to be a theme here. Leave it behind if you can. You shared something with this person, but now that's over. If you feel the desire to be part of his life now, and give him some company, by all means do it, but I don't think you'll be able to do that without feeling some emotional pain. (It's not like you'll escape pain by cutting him completely out of your life right now, either.) One question you might ask yourself: Will you feel better about yourself for having shared some of this person's remaining time with him?
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMI have a few ideas, of course, but they're not getting me very far. They are:
Instead of being angry at his friends and family for accepting his death and his excuses, I should recognize their pain and anguish instead of being selfish.
I think this sounds reasonable. Whether you're capable of it, I don't know.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMI should feel lucky that I'm experiencing death of a loved one so soon, and learn from it to help me deal with the next one.
That may be true. I'm not sure that it's worked like that for me, but knowing that eventually the emotional pain recedes a bit can be a help.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMI recognize I need someone who is just as excited about life as I am.
At least somebody who has a more positive view of life than this person has!
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMRecognize he was sick before I met him and his isn't something I could have easily helped with.
True, and again, remember that his time with you was probably one of the nicer things in his life.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMBUT WHAT ELSE?
WHY DOES DEATH HAVE TO BE SO BAD? DO WE HAVE TO GRIEF ABOUT IT? HOW DO YOU CELEBRATE DEATH IF HE HAS NO AFTERLIFE? AM I ALLOWED TO BE HAPPY AND CARRY ON WITH MY LIFE WHILE SOMEONE IS DYING?
His suffering will end when he dies.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMMy mom says I should talk to a psychologist over my grief. I say I need a philosopher.
A grief councilor might help. A psychologist friend of mine told me once that psychologists often are taking the place of friends, when a person doesn't feel that they can burden their friends with their problems.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMI'm sure you might disagree with many statements I've made, but please listen to what I'm trying to say. I'm interested in my last questions more than anything.
I've made the conscious choice to be cheerful and happy instead of rolling around on the floor crying (which I've been doing.) Yet, my guilt is holding me down. I'm struggling with the morality of being happy and going on with my life while someone I care about is dying.
You don't have any choice about whether he dies or not. You can however choose to try to enjoy your own life. I don't think you have much to feel guilty about, at least from reading what you've written. That doesn't mean you can just discard the guilt, but keeping it in mind that it's a normal reaction to death may help. I felt guilt about the person that I mentioned before, even though I really didn't have anything to feel guilty about. It does fade with time, though.
Quote from: Octomantis on September 26, 2011, 03:57:16 PMWHAT ARE SOME PHILOSOPHIES WHICH POINT TO THE POSITIVE SIDES OF DEATH INSTEAD OF A CRIPPLING SAD ONE? (Because I don't believe in an afterlife) HOW CAN I RESPECT DEATH AND STILL BE HAPPY WHILE IT'S IS GOING ON?
Lend me your philosophy!
Maybe exploring some of the Buddhist ideas about death will help. Some types of Buddhism are religious, but at its heart Buddhism is a philosophy, and not a religion. "The Meaning of Death in Buddhism" (http://www.cyberpat.com/shirlsite/essays/death-budd.html) Also, the person I was caring for who died stayed in the house rather than going to a hospital. Hospice workers came to help with the process, and they gave us something very similar to "A Guide to Grief" (http://www.hospicenet.org/html/grief_guide.html). Maybe it will be of some help to you.