I can't believe today is ten years since the attacks on 9/11. It still seems so fresh in my mind and yet so much has happened since then. I still watch videos and can feel just what I felt watching the second plane hit live on tv. I can still remember being scared that there would be a draft and I would be forced to go to war. At 19, I was a prime candidate had a draft happened.
What an awful day that was. I just hope I don't see anything else happen that's as bad or worse than that in my lifetime.
There have been way worse terror attacks and tragedies, but I suppose America loves putting their stuff on top. >__>
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 08:42:51 PM
There have been way worse terror attacks and tragedies, but I suppose America loves putting their stuff on top. >__>
I was born in '59 and I don't recall a terrorist attack on anywhere near this scale. In terms of the deaths of British citizens the 9/11 attack is still the worst in British history. In the 25 years of the 'Troubles' in Northern Island no one attack came anywhere near this. I don't think there ever has been such a successful terrorist attack in terms of loss of life or material.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 08:42:51 PM
There have been way worse terror attacks and tragedies, but I suppose America loves putting their stuff on top. >__>
Really? Would love to see you back all of this up with facts. Additionally, you have missed the point of the OP. Perhaps you might dig down and find a little of your humanity before spouting such rubbish.
Welp, it is an aweful thing that happened, but I am not here to get into a quarrel, so..
To each thieir own.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 10:32:27 PM
Welp, it is an aweful thing that happened, but I am not here to get into a quarrel, so..
To each thieir own.
Then you should probably keep inflammatory posts that have no basis in fact off the forum. Consider this an unofficial warning, as what you've posted comes very close to trolling.
I understand it is to be the last annual whatchacallit (EDIT: The word I was looking for was "memorial") this year..?
If so, I applaude that. Dwelling can easily backfire as hatred and intolerance if you do enough of it... Individual brains shaping memories and opinions and re-shaping them countless times while thinking about the act in question and some - many - just spiral downward... In my experience, little good comes of it.
Quote from: McQ on September 11, 2011, 10:36:12 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 10:32:27 PM
Welp, it is an aweful thing that happened, but I am not here to get into a quarrel, so..
To each thieir own.
Then you should probably keep inflammatory posts that have no basis in fact off the forum. Consider this an unofficial warning, as what you've posted comes very close to trolling.
Are you serious? I am just posting my opinion. It was a terrible event, but I think americans dwell on it every year, so it's kinda annoying. I'm sorry if you think my opinion is trolling. I've been here long enough to know not to troll. :(
Quote from: Asmodean on September 11, 2011, 10:40:07 PM
I understand it is to be the last annual whatchacallit (EDIT: The word I was looking for was "memorial") this year..?
If so, I applaude that. Dwelling can easily backfire as hatred and intolerance if you do enough of it... Individual brains shaping memories and opinions and re-shaping them countless times while thinking about the act in question and some - many - just spiral downward... In my experience, little good comes of it.
I agree with this -- dwelling is hardly ever useful, and I'd rather see more time, attention and money spent on the survivors of 9/11 than on memorials.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 10:44:02 PM
Are you serious? I am just posting my opinion. It was a terrible event, but I think americans dwell on it every year, so it's kinda annoying. I'm sorry if you think my opinion is trolling. I've been here long enough to know not to troll. :(
Sensitive matter, you see... Sensitive enough that you should use caution in wording even if your name happens to be Asmodean and you are not exactly known for sensitivity. :P
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 10:44:02 PM
Quote from: McQ on September 11, 2011, 10:36:12 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 10:32:27 PM
Welp, it is an aweful thing that happened, but I am not here to get into a quarrel, so..
To each thieir own.
Then you should probably keep inflammatory posts that have no basis in fact off the forum. Consider this an unofficial warning, as what you've posted comes very close to trolling.
Are you serious? I am just posting my opinion. It was a terrible event, but I think americans dwell on it every year, so it's kinda annoying. I'm sorry if you think my opinion is trolling. I've been here long enough to know not to troll. :(
Yes, I'm serious, and if you have been here long enough, then you should have known better than to even ask that. I told you your post was missing the point of the OP and that it was inflammatory and baseless. You have yet to prove otherwise. If your post was inflammatory about
any subject, it would be called out, just as this one.
Any further issues can be directed to me or any of the moderating staff via PM.
Quote from: Asmodean on September 11, 2011, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 10:44:02 PM
Are you serious? I am just posting my opinion. It was a terrible event, but I think americans dwell on it every year, so it's kinda annoying. I'm sorry if you think my opinion is trolling. I've been here long enough to know not to troll. :(
Sensitive matter, you see... Sensitive enough that you should use caution in wording even if your name happens to be Asmodean and you are not exactly known for sensitivity. :P
Asmo speaks words of wisdom.
Quote from: Tank on September 11, 2011, 10:52:46 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on September 11, 2011, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 11, 2011, 10:44:02 PM
Are you serious? I am just posting my opinion. It was a terrible event, but I think americans dwell on it every year, so it's kinda annoying. I'm sorry if you think my opinion is trolling. I've been here long enough to know not to troll. :(
Sensitive matter, you see... Sensitive enough that you should use caution in wording even if your name happens to be Asmodean and you are not exactly known for sensitivity. :P
Asmo speaks words of wisdom.
Alright , sorry. :(
Thing is, and this is an answer to your first post in this thread, Sweetdeath, that you can't really blame people for dwelling on an event like 9.11 - even if this very dwelling is not only not constructive, but potentially harmful. It is still fresh in memories of survivors, families, friends and coworkers of those who didn't make it and many others who feel directly or otherwise touched by the tragedy. Nor can you blame Americans for potentially blowing this event out of proportion - it hit them on their soil. It's different when that happens.
Sure, more people died in pretty much any war deserving of the name you can think of but I suppose for many Americans those wars seem distant - even some wars US troops take part in, just like most wars of today seem distant to me. 9.11 was not distant to them at all.
As stated, I think dwelling is wrong and I think ending organised annual memorials here is a good idea, but I also think it is important to recognize the emotions at work here.
Some people get worked up over this...others do not. It is no different than any other tragic terror event. Consider when JFK was killed, or Reagan shot or MLK killed. Some felt those losses deeply, others not...and many in between.
If one considers the London Blitz as terror bombing (as I do because the target was switched from military targets to civilian targets) then one can say that over 76 nights of terror, 40,000 were killed.
If one considers the bombing and fire bombing of Dresden (and other German cities) as terror bombing - which is exactly what the Bomber Barons and higher-ups in the American and British governments had in mind - by the RAF and the USAAF between 13 February and 15 February 1945 in the Second World War. More than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices were dropped on the city in three days resulting in a firestorm that destroyed 15 square miles (39 square kilometres) of the city. One must remember that German defense of the air was nearly dead at this point. At any rate, revised estimates of the death toll does not go over 25,000. And to let you all know, it did nothing to shorten the war and only served to harden German civilians against the Allies.
9/11 death toll surpasses Pearl Harbour by 650 persons (68 were civilians) or thereabouts. I consider Pearl Harbour a terror attack as well because there was no formal declaration of war.
Some may say the above instances are different; during time of war. But are they? And if they ARE considered acts of terror, then there are "way worse terror attacks and tragedies".
Now, I wasn't part of either raid (above). But I have to ask, to bring home the points - after 10 years, what did the Londoners and British people in general and the people of Germany and Dresden think of these raids? What did they do ten years later? How many dwelt on it and in what way?
Trying to put this in perspective...well, it's difficult at times. Just thinking of "terror" in this way - if one considers these Heads of State as terrorists, here's the death tolls (all averaged from several sources)...
Mussolini: 300,000
Idi Amin Dada: 300,000
Sadaam Hussein: 600,000
President of Indonesia Suharto: 800,000
Genghis Khan: 2.5 million
King Leopold The II of Belgium: 8 million (most in the Congo)
Stalin: 23 million (I think this toll is much too small)
Hitler: 23 million
Mao: 60 million
Compare the above with a fundy religious leader-
Osama Bin Laden: 4,000
So what's this to do with 9/11? Hell, I don't know. All I know is that people will deal with it in their own way, whether it's a single one person incident, terror bombing through war, attack without declaration of war, gas attacks in the subway or something as unique and sinister as 9/11. And when remembering 9/11, try to remember all the dead millions from days past that died horribly through terror and those that will die in the future. It ain't just us Americans....it's all over the world.
Gawen, that made more sense than anything I have heard on the subject in 10 years. Thank you.
A death is a death. Wether it be in Europe 1945, Hawaii 1941, London 2005 or New York 2001. I'm not going to live waiting and watching the sky for the one that's gonna get me. In the immortal words of Ronnie Van Zant: If it's my time to go, it's my time, Let's go.
I agree with Gawen (pardon me if I squeeze onto page2.)
I think there is NO PROBLEM with honoring or remembering a loved one. I dislike that the 9/11 event has become a spectacle of sorts, with the public being forced to listen to it all week, and even today.
I think it's sad to force people who are trying to move on with their lives to listen to the same thing every year. I was affected too, so i'd rather just stop hearing about it entirely.
Aside from that, the biggest priblem I have is how the gov is spending SO MUCH MONEY on a memorial, but wont help the victims/first responders who got cancer and are fighting for their lives! That doesnt make sense. We need to help the living, not the dead. That's like neglecting a starving dog to buy oranges for a shrine offering. It just makes no sense, so I find this whole situation really hypocritical...and sad.
it's become political posturing. sigh.
On a stark turn of the topic, what was everyone doing that day?
I was in *GULP* basic training. Talk about shock. The Drill Sarg's all laughed and joked, "prepare for war, boys!" We weren't able to see any media coverage. Everything we knew was from speculation. Mail was stopped (anthrax scares), so no words from family. No phone calls. Nothing. I didn't see any footage regarding the towers until sometime in 2003 when a nice lady in Queens NY showed be her collection of recorded news feeds.
I was working in Cape Town, South Africa.
Quote from: Tank on September 12, 2011, 08:04:48 PM
I was working in Cape Town, South Africa.
Missionary work? :)
Quote from: fyv0h on September 12, 2011, 08:11:05 PM
Quote from: Tank on September 12, 2011, 08:04:48 PM
I was working in Cape Town, South Africa.
Missionary work? :)
Working at Dimension Data, Tygerberg Hills on a multinational marketing analysis database.
Sleeping, woke up to having my flatmate unusually watching TV first thing in the morning.
Wow. Didn't realize I'd start such a hot debate by simply saying I couldn't believe 10 years has already gone by. Hardly dwelling.
Oh well, some people are just hotheads over the most trivial things sometimes, I guess.
Quote from: Ihateyoumike on September 12, 2011, 10:14:07 PM
Wow. Didn't realize I'd start such a hot debate by simply saying I couldn't believe 10 years has already gone by. Hardly dwelling.
Oh well, some people are just hotheads over the most trivial things sometimes, I guess.
The one thing one can guarantee on forums is miss-communication and miss-interpretation of other people's intent, it's absolutley tied on.
I was driving back from taking trash to the landfill, heard the news come over the radio and got home just in time to see the 2nd plane hit. I sat and watched tv the rest of the day in complete shock.
Quote from: Xjeepguy on September 12, 2011, 11:24:04 PM
I was driving back from taking trash to the landfill...
Odd that you mention it, I was in trash department at the time and picking up trash. Our truck pulled up to a residence and this guy who looked like a meth-head comes running out. "Didja hear?! Didja hear?!" He told us, we didn't believe him. Got back to the station to offload the trash and heard from others in the department. Saw the towers fall and went back to work.
Back on the job, one of our stops was at a friend's house. She was putting last minute trash out at the curb when we drove up. I asked her if she heard and she said she did. Then she said...every fracking Muslim ought to be nuked. Of course, she didn't say "frackin"....but the F-bomb. And it took me by surprise because I had never heard her use it before. And the "turn the other cheek" and "Love your enemies" Christianity of this Cumberland Presbyterian girl flew right out the window.
I was in highschool, in the middle of a physics class when another teacher interrupted us to tell our teacher what was going on. I remember I wrote down "September 11th" so that I'd remember the date (seems silly that I'd have to do that, now).
I was working at my desk, in my home, when my wife called me downstairs. She had been watching the Today Show already when they broke in with the news. We watched it all unfold, live. It was surreal. I lost one classmate in the towers, and two friends and former Army colleagues in the Pentagon.
I was a junior in college. I played football collegiately and our school didn't start until the end of September, but the football season started middle of August. So during the first few weeks of September our daily schedule was team breakfast, meetings/film, walkthrough practice, lifting, break, regular practice, dinner, meetings. It really was the best time of the year for a student-athlete because you didn't have to worry about being a student.
On September 8th we played a road game against New Mexico. It was a late game to avoid the heat, and then our plane had to land in Vegas because it had a flat tire. It turns out that there was no fix-a-flat guy on duty so they had to call someone in to fix it, which took a long time. Incidentally, I found out that I react oppositely from just about everyone else who takes muscle relaxer pills. I get jacked up like I snorted red bull, and everyone else crashed out.
Anyway, I told you that story to tell you this story. Once we got airborn heading back to home, everyone was asleep except me and the flight attendants. This is a chartered jet, mind you, so some of the typical rules don't apply, and they allowed me to spend time upfront in the cockpit. I specifically remember asking them if they were regular flight attendants or if they only did charters and they all were regular. I also asked what, if any, training they got regarding hijackings. They said it was only briefly covered and they were basically told to do exactly what the hijackers said to do.
Weird that I would ask those questions in light of what happened a couple days later.
So the morning ofthe 11th I went in for team breakfast. Usually the tvs in our food hall were all tuned to MTV or BET and there were rap videos blaring. There really was no better way to get guys in and out oft ere than that, but this morning the news was on. Out of the corner of my eye I saw the news ribbon read "America Under Attack". I remember thinking that was just Fox news being sensationalistic again. I grabbed my food, sat down, looked up and saw them cut to a hole in the Pentagon. And then they showed the footage of the towers and the first collapse. I saw the second collapse live, I think.
I didn't really understand the gravity of it until our coach came to the meeting and two things happened I had never before witnessed with him: he was crying and he didnt say one word about football. That's when I knew something bad was going down.
We split into our position groups and my redneck offensive line coach spouted off about nuking the sand niggers back to the stone age (his exact words- lost A LOT of respect for him as a person) and then they cancelled practice. It turns out our head coach was awaiting word from his nephew who worked in one of the towers (he made it out safely).
A bunch of us went back to my house and watched the news all day. It was so surreal. There were a couple of us that if it wasn't for the season we would have road tripped to ground zero to help dig.
Our game the following weekend was cancelled, but we didn't find out for sure until Thursday of that week. The authorities were scared of getting tens of thousands of people in one small area, rightly so.
That's what I remember of that day.
Quote from: McQ on September 23, 2011, 06:31:37 PM
I was working at my desk, in my home, when my wife called me downstairs. She had been watching the Today Show already when they broke in with the news. We watched it all unfold, live. It was surreal. I lost one classmate in the towers, and two friends and former Army colleagues in the Pentagon.
That is horrible, so sorry :(
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on September 23, 2011, 11:18:03 PM
Quote from: McQ on September 23, 2011, 06:31:37 PM
I was working at my desk, in my home, when my wife called me downstairs. She had been watching the Today Show already when they broke in with the news. We watched it all unfold, live. It was surreal. I lost one classmate in the towers, and two friends and former Army colleagues in the Pentagon.
That is horrible, so sorry :(
Thanks. Much appreciated. :)