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Religion => Religion => Topic started by: Whitney on August 23, 2011, 03:26:36 PM

Title: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: Whitney on August 23, 2011, 03:26:36 PM
Quote
Are Christians per scripture/bible/doctrine allowed to believe that there are other gods?

Are Christians allowed to believe in other gods, if they do not worship them, just believe there are other gods besides the one(resp. the trinity of the) Christian god?

For example. A Christians believes in the Hindu deities, he believes they exist but he does not worship them, for instance because he thinks the Christian god is the right/true one and the Hindu deities are insignificant.

Also what's the difference between scripture(which the bible is, I suppose) and doctrine? I suppose doctrine is the teaching derived from scripture and depends on whatever interpretation of the scripture a particular denomination of e.g. Christianity uses. Is that somewhat correct?
Title: Re: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: Davin on August 23, 2011, 05:10:49 PM
Pretty sure there is nothing against it. So long as they don't come before "god" god, and don't make any engraven images or idols of them. Of course many Christians have statues of Jesus...
Title: Re: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: Medusa on August 24, 2011, 05:14:08 AM
I think you aren't supposed to worship any other god before God. But also that you should know all those gods are false gods. And God is the ONE TRUE GOD. The bible does acknowledge indirectly that other gods were worshiped. But it says they were false.
Title: Re: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: OldGit on August 24, 2011, 09:03:06 AM
That word before intrigues me.  I can't understand the original Hebrew, but the Vulgate uses the word coram, which implies 'in the presence of'.  In the late Middle English of the KJV, before could also mean that.  Luther translates it as vor, which can also mean 'in the presence of', but also 'in front of' or 'ahead of'.

In other words, we once again find that we have an obviously critical biblical utterance which we don't clearly understand.
Title: Re: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: Too Few Lions on August 24, 2011, 04:47:36 PM
I don't think there's anything about it in the gospels, but historically Christian practice has always been to see all other gods as false gods, and to vehemently oppose their worship. As St Ambrose said in the fourth century;

'Salvation is not sure unless everyone worships in truth the same true God, who is to be worshipped from the bottom of the heart; for the "gods of the heathen", as Scripture says, "are devils".'
Title: Re: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: penfold on August 25, 2011, 03:44:30 AM
I don't really see why a Christian can't be a pluralist. I mean scripture prima facie is pretty big on the one true god, but then scripture (as OldGit correctly points out) is a pretty vague guide.

But I would imagine that Christian pluralists would be more of the form that: "there is one god in many guises", rather than the independent existence of each god. Actually it could be said that this is how one should look at 'polytheistic' religions like Hinduism. There are 6 million Gods, but then there are also only three gods (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva), then again there is only one (Brahman).

I think the ultimate unity of a 'divine principle' is probably hard to get away from in Christian thought.
Title: Re: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: Gawen on August 26, 2011, 04:06:44 PM
As usual, ambiguity abounds...

Gods mentioned in the Bible:
Adrammelech-II Kings 17:31   Sepharvite God.
Anammelech-II Kings 17:31   Sepharvite God.
Ashima-II Kings 17:30   Samaritan Moon Goddess.
Ashtoreth-I Kings 11:05    Canaanite Goddess.
Baal-I Kings 18:19    Canaanite God ("Lord") of fertility, vegitation, and storms.
Baal-berith-Judges 8:33      A regional variation/aspect of Baal.                              
Baal-peor-Numbers 25:03    Moabite regional variation/aspect of Baal.
Baal-zebub-Luke 11:19       Philistine/Ekronian regional variation/aspect of Baal.
Baalim-I Kings 18:18    Canaanite Gods ("Lords"), a collective of the different aspects of Baal.
Bel-Isiah 46:01      Assyrian/Babylonian/Sumerian God ("Lord").
Chemosh-I Kings 11:07    Moabite war God.
Dagon-I Samuel 05:02   Philistine/Ekronian/Babylonian God of agriculture.                                      
Diana of the-Acts 19:35       Ephesian moon and nature Goddess, ("Divine/Brilliant").    
Jehovah-Exodus 6:03      Hebrew God
Jupiter-Acts 14:12       Roman (possibly derived from 'Zeus-pater', Father Zeus).                                      
Lucifer-Isiah 14:12      ("Light-Bearer")
Mercurius-Acts 14:12       Otherwise known as the Roman God Mercury, God of communication and travel, and messenger of the Gods...which is probably why Paul was called this at Lystra.
Milcom-I Kings 11:05    Ammonite God
Molech-I Kings 11:07    Ammonite God, also called Moloch,  Baal-Hammon of Carthage.                                      
Nebo-Isiah 46:01  Assyrian/Babylonian/Chaldean God of wisdom and writing, also called Nergal          
Nabu-II Kings 17:30   Cuth/Assyrian/Babylonian war and underworld God, also called Meshlamthea.                                    
Nibhaz-II Kings 17:31   Avites God
Nisroch-II Kings 19:37   Assyrian God
Rimmon-II Kings 05:18   Babylonian/Syrian storm God involved (as Ramman) with the Deluge, according to Hebrew texts; also known as Ramman/Rammon.                                      
Succoth-benoth-II Kings 17:30  Babylonian fertility Goddess ("She Who Produces Seed"), also known as Zarpanitu/Zerpanitum.
Tammuz-Ezekial 8:14     Assyrian/Babylonian God
Tartak-II Kings 17:31   Avites God                                      

I'm not referring to any Deities not mentioned by name (the golden calf, etc), or alluded to, or ones I was just too tired to look up. The Bible does not ignore the fact that other nations/peoples did not revere the Jewish/Israelite God and also worshipped other gods. But as you can see, it cleanly refutes any argument that Yahweh was the only God.  That it does so in the 'supposed' word of God is a bonus.  
Some examples:
Yahweh God commanded HIS people never to acknowledge, serve or create images of any other gods (Exodus 20:2, 3).
Elijah challenged the priests of Baal to a contest to see which god would answer with fire (1 Kings 18:16-46).
And then we have Paul, who goes to Athens where he found an altar dedicated to "the unknown god." Paul says the God of Israel is this unknown god. According to Paul, before the resurrection, God was willing to overlook idolatry as an expression of ignorance but that now they should repent and turn to this God (Acts 17:16-34).
There is no other god beside God (Philippians 2:9-11).

There are plenty more examples.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Hath not one God created us? (Malachi 2:10)
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he...Jesus saw that he answered discreetly. (Mark 12: 32, 34)  
And this is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ
whom you have sent. (John 17: 3)
[There is] none other God but one. (1 Corinthians 8: 4)
But to us [there is but] one God. (1 Corinthians 8: 6)
One God and Father of all. (Ephesians 4: 6)
For [there is] one God. (1 Timothy 2: 5)
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
tremble. (James 2: 19)

Note that John 17:3 actually says the word "true". This doesn't necessarily mean that all others are false. It could mean the only true god for a particular gods chosen people. It's really quite subjective. Consider a Christian, from his pov, having reached the point of recognizing the reasonableness of a Supreme Being, he may now note one more (philosophical) argument that bolsters the rest: The Ontological Argument – states that once he understands what God is—the greatest conceivable being or the most perfect being or the most real being—then he shall see that such a being must in fact exist. The One True God. It's one humungous leap of faith from the greatest conceivable being to the other gods are false.

Anyway, as far as I can see, the bible does NOT say that Jews and Christians aren't allowed to believe in other gods. They just can't worship them.











Title: Re: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: Lecter on August 28, 2011, 11:32:47 AM
There are lots of verses in the Bible that clearly say that there is only one god. Therefor I'd say that if a person believes in more than one god, they would be doing something that goes against these verses.

For example:
"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me" Isaiah 45:5

QuoteAlso what's the difference between scripture(which the bible is, I suppose) and doctrine? I suppose doctrine is the teaching derived from scripture and depends on whatever interpretation of the scripture a particular denomination of e.g. Christianity uses. Is that somewhat correct?

Yeah that's correct. Scripture would be the text while doctrine would be the teachings or the beliefs derived from that text.

Hope that was helpful.
Title: Re: TheAnyKey's questions about Christianity
Post by: Cforcerunner on August 28, 2011, 10:34:53 PM
Quote
Are Christians per scripture/bible/doctrine allowed to believe that there are other gods?

Are Christians allowed to believe in other gods, if they do not worship them, just believe there are other gods besides the one(resp. the trinity of the) Christian god?


Hmm...I would say they are "allowed" to believe in others gods, in the same sense that I am allowed to believe the sky is blue but is also navajo white at the time. Or believing a full moon to represent a shape of a circle, but perhaps if the mood strikes, it represents more an octagon.  

In other words, I don't think the question is so much if it "allowed" but rather if there could be such a belief that is logically compatible in the first place. And to that, I'd say all signs point to no. Just as if I asked anyone "Is an atheist allowed to believe in God?" To have "yes" as a possible answer would negate the definition of the subject.

QuoteFor example. A Christians believes in the Hindu deities, he believes they exist but he does not worship them, for instance because he thinks the Christian god is the right/true one and the Hindu deities are insignificant.

I think they "can" believe this. But I don't have reason to believe it can make sense. It would not make sense If I told you that the collapse of the twin towers took place at 9/11, but also 9/10 as well.

To say that BOTH the Judeo-Christian God created the heavens and the earth out of light and also that the god Vishnu grew locus from his navel, broke into three pieces and told his servant Brahman to create the heavens and earth, is completely senseless.  

QuoteAlso what's the difference between scripture(which the bible is, I suppose) and doctrine? I suppose doctrine is the teaching derived from scripture and depends on whatever interpretation of the scripture a particular denomination of e.g. Christianity uses. Is that somewhat correct?

Yes, you are, for the most part, exactly correct. Major tenants of Christianity, such as the holy trinity, Jesus being fully God and fully man, (ect.) are not explicitly stated in Christian scripture, but are essentially theological conceptions/conclusions in which scripture has inferred. While the first two examples of doctrine I gave are universally common among Christians; other doctrines (i.e. purgatory, Calvinism, biblical inerrancy) are commonly what distinct one Christian denomination from another.