Happy Atheist Forum

So, a random reglious person posted a rude and ignorant comment on God and the Bible on my myspace page (where I clearly state that I am an atheist)... It basically said that she feels bad for my mother, the Bible is "obviously" true, prophecies are being fulfilled, and the head of every woman is a man... and that I should be grateful. My friends and I had a wonderful time flame-spraying her... "Babbling on about prophecies being fulfilled makes you sould like an ignorant, uneducated, medieval peasant." Is probably the best quote I've seen in a long time.  :lol:

But yea, bringing my mom into it REALLY pissed me off.   So, in response to me telling her to go to college and learn to think for herself (basically), I get this:

Yeah, I've heard that before from people like you. I worked with one of you for four years. There are plenty of people in the truth who have gone to college and have a high education. But they are also intelligent enough to realize that there is no way this world and everything in it was an accident.

It seems less intelligent for somebody to say that all of a sudden out of nowhere beings exist who can reproduce perfectly and everything in nature works perfectly together, without a designer, without any sort of intelligence. Yeah that makes sense.

Your thinking comes from not wanting to give in to authority. I don't understand why you think that the truth is a burden. I was raised in the truth and never felt that way. Nobody forced me to do anything or think any way. After reseach, I found for myself what is true. It's logical, everything fits together perfectly and there's overwhelming evidence that it is true.

I think for myself more than you do - you have let "modern day society" mold your thinking. I value "thinking for yourself" and doing your own research one of the privledges of searching out and finding the truth. This is about having a love for Jehovah, not an organization. Nobody is telling me what to do. I do what I want, I have the choice, and I love Jehovah.

One more thing. It sickens me that there are people who are still proud to be part of a society that is getting worse and worse (especially somebody who was raised in the truth). Isn't it obvious that your "thinking" has destroyed society? As long as people trust themselves, not Jehovah, modern day society will continue to get worse. That is what Jehovah said he will prove - that society cannot get better without His help. Maybe if you studied the Bible as much as you went to college, you would realize this.

I know, I am wasting my time. I know exactly what you are going to say, but I have a personality that cannot tolerate people who say things that are unjust. I'm an easy going person, but if something is not right, I cannot keep quiet. Especially if it has to do with Jehovah. But, I'm done now.

I have made my point and you will know that it's the truth some day. Until then, believe what you believe. You have made your choice and that's all you can do.

There is just so much crazy "logic" there, that I didn't know where to begin. It seems like you WOULD say, "I did this and this research and this is what I have concluded" instead of words like "obviously" and stating that there is evidence... but not what that evidence IS! ARGH! Oh, and can I just say one more thing about religion and society? The Dark Ages. There, I'm done.

This part is rich:

Quotebeings exist who can reproduce perfectly and everything in nature works perfectly together

She's obviously never heard of Down Syndrome, encephalitis, autism, malformed limbs, ambiguous genetailia, earthquakes, floods, mudslides, and a host of other ills that are not so "perfect"

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Yes. Someone should really give it to her straight: get thee to a nunnery!

Can I see this crazy bint's myspace please? I only hope it's as packed with vitamins of fun as the gobbledegook she's been regurgitating at you, and I do so crave a bit of entertainment at the moment.

Quote from: "MikeyV"This part is rich:

Quotebeings exist who can reproduce perfectly and everything in nature works perfectly together

She's obviously never heard of Down Syndrome, encephalitis, autism, malformed limbs, ambiguous genetailia, earthquakes, floods, mudslides, and a host of other ills that are not so "perfect"

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

That was the same thing I thought as well... humans don't reproduce perfectly.  Far from it.  Same with animals... and they EAT the ones that don't come out right.  

That woman is as crazy as they come.  She is brainwashed, ignorant and prideful... that's what I got from her post... "I'm right, you're wrong and I can't believe you don't see that you're wrong."  Isn't pride one of the seven deadly sins?

Ugh.  :roll:

Wow, what an illogical idiot. I'm reminded of a quote from Billy Madison:
what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

That is what happen when people choose to look at the world through Jesus colored glasses rather than for what it really is.

Quote from: "Mister Joy"Can I see this crazy bint's myspace please? I only hope it's as packed with vitamins of fun as the gobbledegook she's been regurgitating at you, and I do so crave a bit of entertainment at the moment.

This is her myspace: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... d=45619091 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=45619091) ( didn't find anything particularly crazy on there, though)

and here is her recent email (I get no peace... I should stop responding, but I can't!):

Good. I'm glad you made peace with your mother. It's crazy that you say there is no proof, when the proof was right in front of you your whole life. Prophecies fulfilled proving the Bible is true, scriptures being consistant throughout the Bible even though it was written by many different people who lived during different times, with different experiences and different backgrounds (which would have been completely impossible if it was not inspired by God), things happening right now that were also prophecied in the Bible. Decline in society, decline of false religion, things getting worse and worse, even people like you - you are proof. I did not say what the proof is before because I did not think you wanted a very long message and because I don't think you even care what the proof is, but if you really want me to provide you with more proof I can.

So, things like downs syndrome, etc... that is the result of this worlds imperfection. We are further away from perfection than ever before. Obviously we were not created that way. The Bible fortold that these things would happen, the world would get worse before it gets better. My point was that lifes cycles in general all work together, there are niches sometimes because of imperfection, but the sun continues to come up in the morning, doesn't it? Why? It is perfectly placed to sustain life.

I have obviously studied history. I know what FALSE religion has put society through, make no mistake about that. I think it is poison and will experience a downfall soon. True religion has not ruined our society, but has tried to make it better.

I have no idea where she got the idea that I needed to make peace with my mother! I guess she just assumed that since I don't believe in God?? Geez! Anyways, my response was:

How very, very convenient. LOL! So the world is perfect because God made it... only that it's not because of Satan. If your religion held real proof, you would be in a much different place. However, trying to draw parallels between current events and the Bible prooves absolutely nothing.

I am proof of nothing. I follow the laws, I pay my taxes, and I care about the well-being of other people. I'm doing absolutely nothing wrong and I still don't believe in God. Like my blog said, you can be an atheist and still be a good person.

You have not been around long enough to state ANY sort of decline in society. In my opinion, humans will destroy this earth LONG before total havoc breaks out a la Lord of the Flies, haha!

There is no reason that a woman should not be able to carry the microphones or give speaches. None. I questioned it for years. I held private conversations with elders about it. They quoted out-dated sexist scriptures as if I were supposed to go, "Oh, it all makes sense now!". They acted as if my questions were a bad thing. That's because the goal of religion is to control you and keep you for thinking for yourself. Doubts and questions (you know... using your BRAIN) are frowned upon. For example, take my blog. I said that *I* do not believe in God, but people can believe what they want as long as they don't shove it down your throat. You got all upset about that and I didn't even say anything mean.

Oh, and since my mother and I were never feuding, it was never about making "peace" so much as her finally accepting and respecting me. I was never out to hurt her (if I had really wanted to rebel, all I would have had to do was tell an elder that I didn't believe and get kicked out) and I never told her that she was full of shit... although I wanted to.

Ah, yes... and there you go using that word "obviously" again with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Okay, maybe it's because it's been a few years and I forgot how they rationalized all of that... but did anyone just get completely lost??

Oh, and if someone could give me a stellar argument against the whole, "The Bible is true because it was written by many people over different times and it agrees with itself" thing, that would be wonderful.. I'm sick of hearing that one and "Do you have any idea how many times the Bible has been translated!?" seems to have no effect.

Talk about a nut fuck.  You have my sympathy.

if it makes you feel better...one of the girls where i work is pretty big on chrsitianity and was blabbing on today to another coworker about how lee strobel is going to be a guest speaker at her church.  She was like...he use to be an atheist and then he realized he was wrong when he researched the "journalistic" truth of the bible.

Anyway...I'm glad she didn't decide to bring that up around me.  I plan to keep work and religion separate.

Quote from: "laetusatheos"That is what happen when people choose to look at the world through Jesus colored glasses rather than for what it really is.

Oh, I LOVE that!!!  Did you just make that up?  I'd love that on a tshirt somehow!

rlrose....i did make it up but I'm pretty sure I got the "jesus colored glasses" bit from someone else.  It is rather funny though.

I feel your pain my dear. I had a "discussion" with a fundie that made an ignorant comment on one of my Myspace friends blog, in which he pretty much ignored everything I said, and just kept making declarations about atheists and gays (apparently being atheist somehow makes one gay) and saying incredibly stupid things. He even went as far as quoting a Muslim author (that in the same book attacks Christianity and Judaism) that uses a fundie creationist (Gish, or one of those guys), to make idiotic claims about evolution.

I wrote him back that I was going to give him a do over on that one, because I was trying to be fair before I demolished his post. And he responded by deleting my post. We went through a couple of more cycles before I gave up. When someone ignores what you say and declares that their mind won't be changed, what's the point?

This guy was one of those vacuous hit and run types that can't back up their attacks, so they just make declarations. And he's also a copy and paste genius as well, because he's too stupid to argue for himself. Like your lady, Bella, he assumed an awful lot and asked the dumbest questions, and no doubt thought that he was using unassailable logic.

If I were you, I'd just tell her to go away and take her hateful insanity with her. You just can't use logic on such people. She could probably convince herself that the bible was true because '68 Oldsmobile's ran V8 engines. Hell, aliens could land and show us how they created the earth and wrote the bible for fun, and she'd still declare that it was all part of God's plan. Some people are beyond help.

Typical response. Blame humanity for deformed children. Fundies disgust me.

She only believes the Buybull to be consistent because she's never read it.

It can't even get simple things right. Trying to cut/copy/paste prophecies on Jesus, that weren't even about some far distant messiah. Confusing virgin (betulah) for young maiden (almah).

Just the absolute absurdity of Genesis and the fall from grace. How can you commit sin if you don't have any knowledge of sin until you eat the fruit that let's you know that you just sinned?

The believer will say that they had freewill, and their sin was disobeying god. But, Adam and Eve were created imperfect, they had no clue what sin was. That knowledge was wrapped up in a fruit.

Once you see Genesis for what it is (a not very good creation story[stories]), the rest of the book sorta falls apart.

But I'd advise against arguing with deeply entrenched fundies. It would be less painfull to repeatedly smash your head against a brick wall. You know what Mark Twain said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig." Fundies are swine.

Quote from: "MikeyV"But I'd advise against arguing with deeply entrenched fundies. It would be less painfull to repeatedly smash your head against a brick wall. You know what Mark Twain said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig." Fundies are swine.

Oh man that's funny!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

It's shocking. I never knew that there were fundamentalists on myspace... never imagined it to be their scene, but I suppose even they get to evolve.

QuoteSo, things like downs syndrome, etc... that is the result of this worlds imperfection. We are further away from perfection than ever before. Obviously we were not created that way. The Bible fortold that these things would happen, the world would get worse before it gets better. My point was that lifes cycles in general all work together, there are niches sometimes because of imperfection, but the sun continues to come up in the morning, doesn't it? Why? It is perfectly placed to sustain life.

I have obviously studied history. I know what FALSE religion has put society through, make no mistake about that. I think it is poison and will experience a downfall soon. True religion has not ruined our society, but has tried to make it better.

This is a revolting argument. Obviously studied history? My arse. The crusades, anyone? The witch hunts? Bloody Mary? Appealing to my own country's history again here because it's what I know most about: Guy Fawkes? Let's have a good bit of Catholic/Protestant conflict shall we:

       

Quote from: "Bonfire Night rhyme"Burn him in a tub of tar.
    Burn him like a blazing star.
    Burn his body from his head.
    Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead.
    Hip hip hoorah!
    Hip hip hoorah hoorah!

I've heard people say similarly stupid things: "100 years ago this was a 'true Christian country' and wasn't it just so much better?" oh yes it was simply fantastic. The gaps between the upper, middle & lower classes were catastrophic (yaaay) and as a special treat for your girlfriend you could take her on a stroll through east end London to take in the starved rotting corpses of children lying in the gutter, ants nests in their eye balls & cheeks chewed off by rats. Wasn't it wonderful. They even had a bloody great war to look forward to!

This woman is ridiculous. She's got her head stuck into the jibes of Fox News: "oh my Gawwwwd there's never ever been terrorism like this before, BE AFRAID AND SUBMISSIVE, the world is going to END if you don't cooperate, they're going to harvest your children like schools of fish with a giant net made of unbreakable adamantium (science has proven that this was in fact the metal used to forge EXCALIBUR ) and do experiments on them OoooOOOOooOO aren't you terrified et cetera". No wonder she thinks the world is getting worse.

Yup, idiots such as us humans are way too advanced to have come into being.
A perfect being who is almighty, all-knowing, etc? Well...

Quote from: "MikeyV"Mark Twain said, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig." Fundies are swine.

Here's her new one... I thought if I'd stopped responding, she would go away...

You like posting my comments I guess so here's one:

Regarding a college education. That is great to have and all, but I chose not to. I am making more money right now than probably most people on here, doing what I want to do AND being able to stay at home with my daughter (oh yeah, and without having to pay off any student loans). That said, I never had anything against people who go to college - my best friend is in college, as well as many other witnesses that I know - that has nothing to do with our faith, what we believe and our reasoning, so I don't know why that is being brought out so much in this case (especially when, like I said, many who go to college have the same views as I do).

Also, I cannot understand why you wanted to hold the microphone so much. I always felt relieved that I didn't have that responsibility! I am spared that, as well as having to get up in front of people to give 45 minute talks (not to mention the time spent researching and having to write those talks). My husband has told me in the past that he would much rather have the privledges of women who give 5 minute talks and get to work on it with somebody else. I guess the grass is greener on the other side for some people. In my opinion though, it is much harder for men! Thank God I do not have those responsibilities.

You got the opinion, somehow, that the religion teaches men to dominate women. That is so far from the truth. It teaches them to honor the role of women in the congregation and to show appreciation for all that the women do. I don't know if you just came to a quick conclusion, or you weren't provided with the right information, or you weren't listening, or what - but you seem to have misunderstood "how it is". We are encouraged to ask questions, not to blindly follow any teaching, but do research (and yes, my research was a hoot!) You said the elders you spoke to acted like asking questions was a bad thing. That is very strange to me because like I said, I was always encouraged ask questions - to question the Bible's teachings and prove to myself whether or not they are true. I'm sorry that whoever you spoke to made you feel that way and that was not right on their part.

Here is proof of "how it is". This is from many publications regarding how women should be viewed, respected, honored and not dominated, published by the same people that you think are doing the exact opposite - please consider their intentions before coming to false conclusions:

“The advice of godly women was valued. When God-fearing Abraham hesitated to heed the advice of his godly wife, Sarah, on one occasion, Jehovah told him: “Listen to her voice.” (Genesis 21:10-12) The Hittite wives of Esau “were a source of bitterness of spirit to Isaac and Rebekah.” In time, Rebekah expressed the distress she would experience if their son Jacob was to marry a Hittite. What was Isaac’s reaction? “Consequently,” says the account, “Isaac called Jacob and blessed him and commanded him and said to him: ‘You must not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan.’” Yes, even though Rebekah had not offered formal advice, her husband made a decision that took her feelings into account. (Genesis 26:34, 35; 27:46; 28:1) King David later avoided bloodguilt because he listened to the plea of Abigail.â€"1 Samuel 25:32-35.”

“Women had a measure of authority in the family. Children were urged: “Listen, my son, to the discipline of your father, and do not forsake the law of your mother.” (Proverbs 1:8) The description of the “capable wife” in Proverbs chapter 31 reveals that an industrious married woman not only managed a household but might also handle real-estate transactions, establish a productive field, operate a small business, and be known for her words of wisdom. Most important of all was the praiseworthy woman’s reverential fear of Jehovah. No wonder the value of such a wife was “far more than that of corals”! Precious red coral was highly prized for jewelry and decorative purposes.â€"Proverbs 31:10-31.”

“Jehovah’s regard for women was reflected in the special favor he bestowed upon some of them in Bible times. Angels who communicated divine direction to them visited Hagar, Sarah, and the wife of Manoah. (Genesis 16:7-12; 18:9-15; Judges 13:2-5) There were “women servants” at the tabernacle and female singers in Solomon’s court.â€"Exodus 38:8; 1 Samuel 2:22; Ecclesiastes 2:8.”

“Several times in Israel’s history, Jehovah used a woman to represent him or to speak for him. Regarding the prophetess Deborah, we read: “The sons of Israel would go up to her for judgment.” (Judges 4:5) Following Israel’s defeat of Canaanite king Jabin, Deborah had a truly special privilege. She was evidently the composer, at least in part, of the victory song that eventually became part of Jehovah’s inspired record. (Judges, chapter 5) Centuries later, to inquire of Jehovah, King Josiah sent to the prophetess Huldah a delegation that included the high priest. Huldah could authoritatively reply: “This is what Jehovah the God of Israel has said.” (2 Kings 22:11-15) On that occasion the king commanded the delegation to go to a prophetess, but this was done to receive direction from Jehovah.â€"Compare Malachi 2:7.”

"God’s concern for the welfare of women is evident from the instances in which he acted in behalf of some of his female worshipers. Twice he intervened to protect Abraham’s beautiful wife, Sarah, from being violated. (Genesis 12:14-20; 20:1-7) God showed favor to Jacob’s less-loved wife, Leah, by ‘opening her womb’ so that she bore a son. (Genesis 29:31, 32) When two God-fearing Israelite midwives risked their lives to preserve Hebrew male children from infanticide in Egypt, Jehovah appreciatively “presented them with families.” (Exodus 1:17, 20, 21) He also answered Hannah’s fervent prayer. (1 Samuel 1:10, 20) And when the widow of a prophet faced a creditor who was prepared to take her children to pay off her debt, Jehovah did not leave her in the lurch. Lovingly, God enabled the prophet Elisha to multiply her supply of oil so that she could pay the debt. Thus she preserved her family and her dignity.â€"Exodus 22:22, 23; 2 Kings 4:1-7.

Far from encouraging a disparaging view of women, therefore, the Hebrew Scriptures present a balanced picture of their lot among God’s servants. Women were treated with dignity and respect by godly men who followed Jehovah’s example and heeded his Law.”

“Illustrating that Jehovah does not require a wife to be blindly submissive to her husband is the case of Abigail. Her husband was a wealthy man, with large flocks of sheep and goats. But he was “harsh and bad in his practices.” Abigail refused to follow her husband in his bad course. Showing discretion, good sense, humility, and quick-mindedness, she prevented a situation that could have been disastrous for her household, and she was richly blessed by Jehovah.â€"1 Samuel 25:2-42.”

“A few women were even prophetesses. Such was the case with Deborah, during the time of the Judges. (Judges, chapters 4 and 5) Huldah was a prophetess in Judah, shortly before the destruction of Jerusalem.”

“Statistics show that “the women telling the good news are a large army,” making up the major part of the army of Witnesses that Jehovah is using in this time of the end. (Psalm 68:11) These hardworking Christian women have earned a fine name for themselves as they struggle to fulfill their role of wives, mothers, homemakers, breadwinners, as well as Christian ministers.”

“The father was to be the head of the household, but this would not be to the detriment of the wife. Rather, it would be to her advantage because she would have someone to back her up when she wielded her God-given authority over her children.”

“God has not given to man absolute authority over woman; man must answer to his head, Jesus Christ, and to God for the way that he exercises such headship. (1 Cor. 11:3) Furthermore, husbands are commanded “to be loving their wives as their own bodies” and to ‘assign honor’ to their wives. (Eph. 5:28; 1 Pet. 3:7) The sexual needs of a husband are not put above those of his wife in God’s arrangement for married couples. (1 Cor. 7:3, 4) The role of a capable wife, as outlined in the Bible, emphasizes her value to the household and the community. It allows a broad field in which she can use initiative while demonstrating her appreciation for her husband’s headship. (Prov. 31:10-31) The Bible commands children to honor not only their father but their mother as well. (Eph. 6:1-3) It also gives special attention to caring for the needs of widows. (Jas. 1:27) Thus among true Christians, women can find great security, true appreciation for themselves as individuals, and personal satisfaction in their activity.”

“God went on to say: ‘It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.’” (God does not here describe the man as being a better person than the woman. Rather, God indicated that woman would possess qualities that would complement those of man within God’s arrangement. A complement is one of two mutually completing parts. Thus women as a group are outstanding in certain qualities and abilities; men, in others).”

“May women be preachers, proclaimers, ministers of the good news, outside the congregation meetings? At Pentecost of 33 C.E. holy spirit was poured out on both men and women. In explanation, the apostle Peter quoted Joel 2:28, 29, saying: “‘In the last days,’ God says, ‘I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams; and even upon my men slaves and upon my women slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.’” (Acts 2:17, 18) In like manner today, women properly share in the Christian ministry, preaching from house to house and conducting home Bible studies.”


So, please don't judge people by the responsibilites that they agree to take on to establish some sort of order in any group or organization. Especially those who are serving others by doing so, making life easier for others. It is hard work and takes a kind, loving person to sacrifice so much time and so much effort for the sake of others. I'm thankful that I do not have to do what they do for the congregation.

Believe what you believe, be an athiest, whatever.... but just please consider the fact that these men are not trying to "dominate" women, but are helping them and allowing them to take care of their own responsibilites by sparing them of having to handle the microphone, prepare and give speeches, be an on call helper for others, sometimes staying up all hours of the night for the sake of those responsibilities, not getting paid for it, then having to get up the next day and go to their regular job, etc., etc., etc. It is a loving arrangement, and should be seen as such, regardless of your status when it comes having a religion or not.

I hope this makes up for whoever did not answer your questions in the past.

Geez, I'd said she should go to college to "learn something" not to make more money.

I guess I'm a bad woman since I'm not stepping down and fitting into my role, gah!!! I guess I've spent too much time around strong women at work and school that coming across someone who actually believes this just...

Bella, you're wasting your valuable my dear.  This person will not ever consider listening to reason.  From the two pieces you posted I've counted numerous fallacies, direct contradictions in argumentation, perceptual bias, mischaracterization of theories such as the big bang and evolution et cetera.  This conversation will on serve to infuriate you and let to further frustration.  You could probably circumvent the entire think by just telling them to "fuck off" and they'll walk away gloating about how they "won" and are "right all along about atheists" just as if you continue to try and impart knowledge and critical thinking through well reasoned and thought out messages.  The end will still be the same.

I received an invitation to a group.  The owner of it sent it to me.  The group is called Christians Bash Atheists or something to that effect.  What do I do?  Don't even look at the site and deleted the message.  Nothing productive can come from my joining that group.

I will admit that there have been times I've gotten caught up in debates and made posts that could almost be a review paper published in a scientific journal and what was the outcome?  They never changed their mind let alone understood why they were wrong.  It has nothing to do with the information being exchanged.  It is a personal preference based upon many things for them - a majority it was simply introduction at a young age through the family.  Some grow up and change their mind, some don't.  The view becomes close to them and is almost seen as a personality trait therefore attacking or questioning their belief becomes attacking them personally.  Not to mention doubt and questioning isn't allowed in a religion based upon believing without proof or any evidence.  Such people are walking contradictions but manage to rationalize anything that opposes their view away because to entertain the idea that they may be wrong causes all sorts of anxiety which is through what they have been taught - blind faith, no questioning, and so forth and then with the threat of punishment - burning in hell for eternity.  Their fear keeps them from questioning their beliefs.

I'd simply just delete this person's messages and end it.  You'll only be ultimately pissed off and nothing will ever be resolved.

Squid, you are absolutely right (and I think I'm going to have to quote you later one) and I know that it IS a waste of time... But, I will never cease to be amazed at the purposeful disregard for rational thought that some people have. What is entertaining is that, by trying to prove me wrong, she is only strengthening what I have said... and she still can't see it. My response:

Actually, I'm a little tired of it... that's why I didn't post your other emails.

I didn't tell you to go to college so that you could make more money (although that was sure sweet of you to try to compare your income with the income of my friends... they'll love that). I told you to go to open your eyes. You "OBVIOUSLY" don't know your history. Geez. It says your highest level of education was HIGH SCHOOL! Go at least take some classes at your local community college (e.g. history, psychology, philosophy... WOMEN'S STUDIES!!!)

You seemed to have missed the point... again. It is not about holding microphones, it is about how I should have been able to do that. Giving speeches sucked (well, from the ones I wrote where could only go up there and speak to another women in front of the men... which is a whole other level of crazy). You had said that it's "people like me" who are making the world a bad place... what about people like YOU?! Are you really so unmotivated and lazy that you're glad someone gets to lead you around by the nose because then you don't have to worry about yourself? Ugh.

It absolutely DOES teach it to dominate women. Listen carefuly:
It teaches roles. The roles include men as "the head" of women (that's a quote from you). This means that it's teaching men to dominate women. No, they don't get to beat them with sticks... is THAT your idea of domination?? Maybe the root of your problem is that you think women NEED men to "help" them.

Another thing... Did you ever consider that those "roles" should be filled by people who want to do them, have the time to do them, are good at them, etc. instead of based on their sex? Isn't it doing EVERYONE there a great disservice if the person giving the speech is a less-skilled speaker... but is still given that "role" because they are male?

My problem was not that there weren't enough scriptures in the Bible that men have authority over women... it was that they HAD authority over women for absolutely no reason. There are plenty of men less intelligent than me in this world and there is no way that I will let them speak at me just because they have a penis.

I'm going to save some time and just pick apart a FEW of the quotes:

"Statistics show that "the women telling the good news are a large army," making up the major part of the army of Witnesses that Jehovah is using in this time of the end. (Psalm 68:11) These hardworking Christian women have earned a fine name for themselves as they struggle to fulfill their role of wives, mothers, homemakers, breadwinners, as well as Christian ministers."

What statistics? I see no statistics. Where did they get these statistics? How are they defining "large"? What the hell kind of religious paraphernalia is this that you're trying to quote as truth? That is just a meaningless claim with nothing to back it up. Try to look at things more objectively.


"Jehovah's regard for women was reflected in the special favor he bestowed upon some of them in Bible times. Angels who communicated divine direction to them visited Hagar, Sarah, and the wife of Manoah. (Genesis 16:7-12; 18:9-15; Judges 13:2-5) There were "women servants" at the tabernacle and female singers in Solomon's court.—Exodus 38:8; 1 Samuel 2:22; Ecclesiastes 2:8."

OMG! HE LET WOMEN BE SERVANTS! YAY! HE REALLY *DOES* CARE! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"The father was to be the head of the household, but this would not be to the detriment of the wife. Rather, it would be to her advantage because she would have someone to back her up when she wielded her God-given authority over her children."

Guess what? In this society, husbands and wives are supposed to be equal... but they STILL back each other up and work together when raising the kids. But yes... the husband's bigger so he's much better at beating the kids, if that's what you're getting at.



Anyways, my stance is the same... Believe what you want to. That is your business. However, don't try to impose it on other people. If you believe that evey animal on the planet was within walking distance to Noah's house or that some guy blew a horn and knocked down city walls, or that a loving God killed numerous people and let poor Job suffer to prove to Satan how cool he was... whatever. But, you are not going to be able to provide any sort of proof... EVER. You are not going to rationally argue its contents... EVER. So, find whatever joy in your belief system... but don't impose your private relationship with God onto other people.

My friends response as well:

Isn't it funny how fanatical fundamentalist believers tend to get when they hear someone with a different opinion. Here is the thought of the day: "Maybe it isn't the path that we walk, but how we walk that path that really matters."

If you are a good Christian, then good for you. If you are a good Atheist, good for you too. If you have nothing better to do than spend your time spouting hate speech about why you are right and everybody else is wrong, do me a favor and first slap yourself, then go enroll in a community college world theology class.

It is all the same, just everyone looks at it from a slightly different angle. It doesn't matter if you call him, god, jesus, allah, buddah, whoever... what makes a difference is how you go about your beliefs in whoever you believe in, even if it's nothing. We can't prove one right from wrong, we weren't there 2000 years ago, and history is notoriously twisted. But we do know one thing... What is the one thing that comes up in EVERY religion? It's love. Plain and simple. That's how you show and share with people your beliefs. Not telling someone how much more money you make than them, and then try to base that previous statement around religion? That has to be the most ignorant, unthoughtful, and uneducated bullshit that I have heard spewed on myspace in a while.

I know that there is no way that she's going to have some realization from what I say... but debates with stupid people always make me feel smart.  

oh holy crap this thread and so many others have sparked so many things I want to talk about.  okay wait I need to regather myself and come back...sorry I just joined this morning and I'm so f-n relieved to be somewhere where people are like "Oh okay that's what ya think, that's what I think too"  Seriously how many FACTUAL events need to take place in the past and present to get people to see that some things just don't make any damn sense?  I didn't read entirely through this thread but my thinking is that there have been some amazingly strong female leaders from Celtic warrior women to Queen friggen Elizabeth...but oh they were (for lack of a better phrase) the exception to the rule....WELL IF GOD IS SO DAMN INFALABLE WHY THE HELL ARE THERE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE!!!!  

I was raised in a very vvvvvveeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyyyyy Mormon family and women being less than men is one of their biggest things....and the insulting thing about it all is that the fricken women act totally fantastically satisfied with that.  Let's just say for the sake of arguement here that God is real and great grand and wonderful - Do you think he's alone?!  Hell no the man's got a woman who makes the whole thing work...My husband would be dick without me as I would be without him...I just don't get why religions can ignore history and say that women need to be put on the back burner, like we were just put on the planet to eat the fuckin apple!!!  whoa got a little excited there sorry...I'm an in the closet atheist still so bear with my outbursts :-))

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/atrocities.html (http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/atrocities.html)

I hear ya , Bella,above is a site to post to her.  It is about all the horrible things in the bible, like god ordering enemy women to have their uteruses cut open and the fetuses destroyed (god is apparently not a pro-lifer..)  I have some more, but i will have to post in a second note here......

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/fundy.html (http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/fundy.html)

Debating fundies is a futile effort, but the above site might give you a chucke about debating fundies.  Below is one of hundreds available on the net re: bible contradictions.

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm (http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm)

I'm a big question asker when it comes to overwhelming responses like she's giving you. The more you break down her tirade, the easier it is to break down her logic.

Why not ask her in what era(s) she thought the world was not deteriorating? What time was better than the present to be alive? You'll be able to easily refute her choice with even a passing familiarity with history. There are enough plagues, wars, famine, etc for any time.

As for the women issue, ask her why, if Jehova allowed women to speak for him, they aren't good enough to speak in a modern church? What has changed in the last two millenia? Aren't exceptions to the rules allowed anymore?

http://www.goatstar.org/peculiar-bible-verses/ (http://www.goatstar.org/peculiar-bible-verses/)

the above one is cute enuff...somebody stop me!!!

 :roll:

"i was wonder if you yourself knew that darwin disowned his theroy in his last days knowing that fossils show species suddenly appering not sight mutations made over long periods of time. the fact is eveolution is total improvible."

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

As soon as I started throwing out examples from history books and the bible, she went away. She either crawled back into her oblivious hole or she's looking for something to "prove" me wrong with. Lol, in either scenario, she's gone for good. One point for the Atheists.

it's gonna be a never ending battle I think.  It sort of reminds me of the never ending battle with dog shit I've got in my yard.  I mean as long as I have dogs living with me I'm gonna have to scoop up the shit.  and I'm not gonna be gettin' rid of my dogs cause no matter how much the crap bugs me they're still good dogs ya know?  So I've equipped myself with a really great pooper scooper and it makes the job a little easier....ha, that's a damn good metaphor if I do say so myself.   This website, other atheists, and just knowledge in general being the pooper scooper I guess...and the shit...well that part wasn't a metaphor it's still crap.

Great metaphor, jayne!    I love it!

Quote from: "SabineMaia"Why not ask her in what era(s) she thought the world was not deteriorating? What time was better than the present to be alive? You'll be able to easily refute her choice with even a passing familiarity with history. There are enough plagues, wars, famine, etc for any time.

Everything I asked her, she ignored. Like with those quotes she posted, she just came back after days of ignoring the sexist stuff and focusing on how the bible is "obviously" true and i just didn't understand it. I'm sure she's gone... but I posted this just to be mean:

I would also like to add that your "fulfilled prophecies" generally... suck. Since I can't speak for all religions, I'll focus on JW since that is what I absolutely know... If you sit in at a JW meeting, you will hear them talk the usual talk, praise themselves on how wonderful they are, point out who is doing what wrong (dude, you DON'T want to fuck up when you're a JW. If the rest of the congregation finds out... they are all after you like a spider monkey and you better shed some real tears, :) Honestly, I remember hearing those violent Bible stories when I was little and thinking, "Geez... God sure has a short fuse... What is his PROBLEM?! Why can't he just let them go off and be bad? Isn't the whole reason we are suffering in this imperfect world because we are supposed to chose him of our own free will?" Lol, I was wise beyond my years.

Arguing with a religious person is like arguing with a conspiracy theorist (is that a word?)  They've got a stupid answer for everything and it always comes back to the fact that you've gotta believe.  Doesn't she think that people have been saying the apocolypse is nigh forEVER!!  There's always been things happening that were "revealed" in Revelations and all that, now we just hear more of it cause there's a bazillion news channels, hell even one covering just the weather.  Like the person you quoted said point out the Holocaust or the Inquisition?  There was this thing on the history channel the other day about a meteor that exploded over siberia a hundred years ago and it turned the night to day for like a week in places as far away as England...what the hell did those people think was happening?  Anyway you said she's probably gone which always sucks cuz they just pop up and LOUDLY put in their two cents but never listen to anything else if it comes remotely close to contradicting them.