Consider Radium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium). When this element was isolated in 1898 it was used in many inappropriate ways. It was added to 'cure all' medicines and killed people. The plight of the Radium Girls being an example of vested interests exploiting others for their own benefit.
Is the Internet our generations 'Radium'? Have we learned how damaging the Internet is yet?
Should there be 'Google' and 'Google Cleaned'? Where only adults can access 'Google' while anybody can access 'Google Cleaned'?
Should sites that allow random individuals of any age anywhere on Earth webcam with each other be banned?
I must say I am very much in a quandary on these issues. I am coming to the conclusion that in some respects the Internet has become a very dangerous thing/place.
As religion loses popularity, morality will go to shit quickly. We'll end up in random piles of flesh in public parks! Damn atheists!
Maybe it's our generation's dynamite? Damn Nobel!
I think the benefits do outweight the negatives. However, I don't have any explanation for that point.
If it all does turn out bad, we can say "damn Al Gore!" Then again if we don't listen to him, we might have a waterworld by 2040 and then we'll be saying "damn developing world not cooperating with global climate change initiatives! I'm looking at you, China and India!"
I am very much against banning of sites on the internet. I think it is up to the site owners to have age verification systems if they are needed. Sure, with the anonymity of the internet, anyone can claim that they are of an age which they are not, but that shouldn't mean banning the site.
I think throughout history of technology there have been things that children or those ill equipped to handle it get involved in that the initial knee jerk reaction is to ban or censor it. Telephone, cell phones, video games, driving, guns etc, etc. The internet is just one of those things, in my opinion.
I have grown up in a time where there was always the internet (essentially). I was about 8 when my dad bought the first modem and we connected to AOL for the first time. I remember the early days of chat rooms and e-mailing lists. I remember downloading booby pictures seemingly one line of pixels at a time. Sure, I may have gotten in to something I shouldn't have, but I turned out all right.
As to the title question of the OP- I think the benefits of the internet (instant search, wikipedia, connecting people all over the world) far outweigh the negatives. Also, there is Google safe search, which when enacted does a surprisingly good job of limiting results. It is set as default on my work computer.
I think I should clarify that I would not ban a webcam site that had appropriate age verification processes, what adults show to each other is up to them. But a site that makes no pretence whatsoever of keeping adults and children apart is asking for trouble and the owners would know it. Site owners are not a group of morally superior people, some will be slimy bastards of the first order.
It is up to parents to know where their children are and what they are doing, not the government.
Parents should install parental control software on their child's (or family) computer which limits usage and blocks access to sites that are not age appropriate and/or that are not safe (though I would caution parents about over-sheltering). Parents should also teach their children about internet safety and that 'stranger danger' rules apply even with online friends.
I don't think the internet being a tool that makes it easier for a few bad men to find children to prey on in any way outweighs all the good internet has done (making knowledge available to everyone, connecting cultures, helping minorities connect, increasing communication etc) .
Quote from: Whitney on June 10, 2011, 05:24:13 PM
It is up to parents to know where their children are and what they are doing, not the government.
True. But what about the kids with bad parents? Shouldn't society accept it has a responsibility to all children, irrespective of the behaviour the child's parents?
Quote from: Whitney on June 10, 2011, 05:24:13 PMParents should install parental control software on their child's (or family) computer which limits usage and blocks access to sites that are not age appropriate and/or that are not safe (though I would caution parents about over-sheltering).
Again I agree except that the webcam site in question is not a 'x' rated site. It would not be blocked unless one did it on a manual basis.
Quote from: Whitney on June 10, 2011, 05:24:13 PMParents should also teach their children about internet safety and that 'stranger danger' rules apply even with online friends.
Agree 100%.
Quote from: Whitney on June 10, 2011, 05:24:13 PMI don't think the internet being a tool that makes it easier for a few bad men to find children to prey on in any way outweighs all the good internet has done (making knowledge available to everyone, connecting cultures, helping minorities connect, increasing communication etc) .
I tend to agree here also. But I still feel that human evolution has not prepared us for the volume of information that the Internet can deliver nor the corrosive nature of some of the content.
It took a while for people to see the damage Radium did, I have a feeling that we have yet to fully comprehend the damage the Internet is capable of inflicting.
Quote from: Tank on June 10, 2011, 08:46:00 PM
True. But what about the kids with bad parents? Shouldn't society accept it has a responsibility to all children, irrespective of the behaviour the child's parents?
I would rather expand laws related to child neglect if that is the concern.
Perhaps you trust your government more than I do mine but, aside from children being the responsibility of their parents, the US gov can't be trusted to know what sites to block. Not to mention that any effective blocking method would require a 'big brother' system that would also carry the ability to track the internet usage of all adults.
It is definitely a slippery slope. I would like to believe that the internet should remain a neutral open portal to all forms of communications. The more litigation gets involved with our information sharing the less of a benefit the internet will be. With answers to virtually every question on the internet out there I cannot imagine a day where tiered or restricted services are offered for a price. As a matter of fact I fell that eventually wireless internet access should be free just like FM is or UHF was. I feel like it is up to us to educate children about the dangers and the benefits of free information sharing, and educate ourselves along the way. The internet will shape the future and in no way should we hand the reigns over to litigators bureaucracies and corporations. It will be the trick to ensure that the internet does not go the way of network television, dummied down and filtered to the point of uselessness.
Quote from: Tank on June 10, 2011, 08:46:00 PM
It took a while for people to see the damage Radium did, I have a feeling that we have yet to fully comprehend the damage the Internet is capable of inflicting.
I'd agree with that, we don't know, I don't anyway.
I don't think the violence from gaming affecting real life thing is settled.
There's the assertion the attitudes of males to females are being distorted by unsavoury porn.
Whether filters or parents should be supervising doesn't change the answer to is the Internet on balance bad.
There is the suggestion/fact/ whatever that use of computers is changing the way we think, brains rewire for lost senses so perhaps sitting in front of a screen does a similar thing. Change isn't necessarily bad though.
The argument that too much cyber relating is deleterious to real life relationship formation.
Internet is not as much full of shit as the people participating in it are. Just like out on the street, you have scientists, stock brokers, plumbers, sexually frustrated pedofiles, criminals, frauds and every other form and shape of human, more or less. And just like on the street, you can't always tell who is who just by looking.
Thus, as far as webcams go, if you do not show your tits to strangers on the street, you shouldn't do it on the Internet either. If you do show your tits to strangers... Then shu'up and stop victimizing yourself. If you don't victimize yourself and are somewhere between 17 and 25... Gimme your url :P (Note: Tits and webcams are an example to illustrate a wider point.)
Even if you are like ten, "don't do what you wouldn't do at school, in the library or while shopping" should be an easy rule to follow, yes?
Quote from: Asmodean on June 11, 2011, 08:08:37 AM
Internet is not as much full of shit as the people participating in it are. Just like out on the street, you have scientists, stock brokers, plumbers, sexually frustrated pedofiles, criminals, frauds and every other form and shape of human, more or less. And just like on the street, you can't always tell who is who just by looking.
Thus, as far as webcams go, if you do not show your tits to strangers on the street, you shouldn't do it on the Internet either. If you do show your tits to strangers... Then shu'up and stop victimizing yourself. If you don't victimize yourself and are somewhere between 17 and 25... Gimme your url :P (Note: Tits and webcams are an example to illustrate a wider point.)
Even if you are like ten, "don't do what you wouldn't do at school, in the library or while shopping" should be an easy rule to follow, yes?
Problem with that idea is there are pedophiles who would otherwise be in a van near a school with a bowl of candy, and now they can do it without having to buy candy. In this case, we don't want them doing at home what they would do on the street.
Quote from: fester30 on June 11, 2011, 10:24:36 AMProblem with that idea is there are pedophiles who would otherwise be in a van near a school with a bowl of candy, and now they can do it without having to buy candy. In this case, we don't want them doing at home what they would do on the street.
The internet is an urban jungle. And every self-respecting jungle has some poisonous snakes in it. Recognising that fact can keep you relatively safe on WWW.
Quote from: fester30 on June 11, 2011, 10:24:36 AM
Problem with that idea is there are pedophiles who would otherwise be in a van near a school with a bowl of candy, and now they can do it without having to buy candy. In this case, we don't want them doing at home what they would do on the street.
Quote from: fester30 on June 11, 2011, 10:24:36 AM
Problem with that idea is there are pedophiles who would otherwise be in a van near a school with a bowl of candy, and now they can do it without having to buy candy. In this case, we don't want them doing at home what they would do on the street.
It doesn't matter what you do with a crazy person they are still crazy. Problems like pedophilia and predation don't happen because of the internet. The internet is not a cause it's a symptom of a much larger mental illness or behavioral problem. There is an ongoing debate as to whether pedophilia itself is a "Clinical" mental illness. And while I can't say that it is or isn't either way I think that there are behavioral issues that can be managed if these types of mental states are discovered and treated early. This would require society to stop leaning on law makers and encourage open dialogue about all types of mental illness and where treatment can be found. Parents need to take responsibility to educate themselves and not be afraid to have children evaluated if they show early signs of a certain behavioral type.
I think we all came here to discuss these types of issues from the perspective of our world view. Most of which is steeped deeply in evolutionary theory. We can gain considerable insight into these types of mental states by asking ourselves how the development for the propensity for various sexual preferences evolved in early hominid species. If you are familiar with the hawks and doves game theory then clearly you can see how early sexual predation could have been evolved as a way of subverting the societal norms of waiting for a woman to be of "marrying age". If this behavior or mental proclivity were evolved then it may beyond the fault of the individual and of their parenting it may simply be an evolutionary tool honed by natural selection. If you are able to whittle down the social aspects of a behavior you can sometimes see a remote purpose for its existence and I think that these cases should be treated as such. I feel that a lot of what society calls deviant behavior or antisocial behavior could all be evolutionary spandrels hardwired into some individuals brains. Finding the genetic root for the expression of these behaviors could be the key to treating them and allowing these individuals to exist comfortably in modern society. To some degree we all still have caveman brains.
All I'm saying is that internet restriction, or restrictions of any sort aren't solving the problem. These types of personality and behavior problems need to be solved at the very least at the psychiatric level but I think ultimately we will find the genetic key for almost all personality types.
The South African Association of Evangelical Christians has the answer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E07oLgW3Rw8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E07oLgW3Rw8) (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg826.imageshack.us%2Fimg826%2F4195%2Flolbymissbangles.gif&hash=a459a670b2fef67538964246ce892a4b5f7d96e2)
The good definitely outweighs the bad. With the internet, almost anything is possible. ;)
The internet may be the only thing that brings the world together. Communication between people of the world should be encouraged. What a better way to build understanding and thwart misconceptions. This should be made available, not for adults living in the past and set in their ways, but for children who are taught to dream, imagine and create. I believe the internet will prove to be one of the best tools ever devised. It has only just begun.
Yes children do stupid things with their webcams, but that is not the internets fault. Parents need to educate themselves, and install nanny systems on their computers if they would like to make sure their children aren't doing inappropriate things on the internet. Why should adults be punished because parents can't properly look after their children?
Also, I believe the webcam sites you speak of have age verification as well as moderators. Im sure there are young people doing inappropriate things, but that is the parents who should be better monotering their children, not the sites.
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on July 11, 2011, 07:01:10 AM
Yes children do stupid things with their webcams, but that is not the internets fault. Parents need to educate themselves, and install nanny systems on their computers if they would like to make sure their children aren't doing inappropriate things on the internet. Why should adults be punished because parents can't properly look after their children?
Also, I believe the webcam sites you speak of have age verification as well as moderators. Im sure there are young people doing inappropriate things, but that is the parents who should be better monotering their children, not the sites.
Unfortunately the sites I am discussing have neither age verification nor any evidence of moderation, intended or otherwise. If the sites concerned did make a reasonable attempt to ensure that only adults accessed their services then I would not have an issue with them, however in these cases no such attempt is made.
The 'it's the parents responsibility' is true, but only up to a point. That point comes when an adult is aware of children being abused and does nothing about it because it's not their kid. To my mind an adult that stands by while abuse happens really does have to take a serious look at their own moral compass.
Quote from: Tank on July 11, 2011, 08:26:30 AM
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on July 11, 2011, 07:01:10 AM
Yes children do stupid things with their webcams, but that is not the internets fault. Parents need to educate themselves, and install nanny systems on their computers if they would like to make sure their children aren't doing inappropriate things on the internet. Why should adults be punished because parents can't properly look after their children?
Also, I believe the webcam sites you speak of have age verification as well as moderators. Im sure there are young people doing inappropriate things, but that is the parents who should be better monotering their children, not the sites.
Unfortunately the sites I am discussing have neither age verification nor any evidence of moderation, intended or otherwise. If the sites concerned did make a reasonable attempt to ensure that only adults accessed their services then I would not have an issue with them, however in these cases no such attempt is made.
The 'it's the parents responsibility' is true, but only up to a point. That point comes when an adult is aware of children being abused and does nothing about it because it's not their kid. To my mind an adult that stands by while abuse happens really does have to take a serious look at their own moral compass.
Did you mention previously what sites your referring to? I understand if you don't want to for obvious reasons. I never understood the dateline episodes that advertise how to get the things they are demonizing. For example, when they show you how to make a bomb and put a "censor" label on the Bleach.
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on July 11, 2011, 08:53:24 AM
Quote from: Tank on July 11, 2011, 08:26:30 AM
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on July 11, 2011, 07:01:10 AM
Yes children do stupid things with their webcams, but that is not the internets fault. Parents need to educate themselves, and install nanny systems on their computers if they would like to make sure their children aren't doing inappropriate things on the internet. Why should adults be punished because parents can't properly look after their children?
Also, I believe the webcam sites you speak of have age verification as well as moderators. Im sure there are young people doing inappropriate things, but that is the parents who should be better monotering their children, not the sites.
Unfortunately the sites I am discussing have neither age verification nor any evidence of moderation, intended or otherwise. If the sites concerned did make a reasonable attempt to ensure that only adults accessed their services then I would not have an issue with them, however in these cases no such attempt is made.
The 'it's the parents responsibility' is true, but only up to a point. That point comes when an adult is aware of children being abused and does nothing about it because it's not their kid. To my mind an adult that stands by while abuse happens really does have to take a serious look at their own moral compass.
Did you mention previously what sites your referring to? I understand if you don't want to for obvious reasons. I never understood the dateline episodes that advertise how to get the things they are demonizing. For example, when they show you how to make a bomb and put a "censor" label on the Bleach.
No, I have not mentioned the sites names as I do not think they should be promoted and we do have kids as members here.
Quote from: Tank on July 11, 2011, 09:01:16 AM
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on July 11, 2011, 08:53:24 AM
Quote from: Tank on July 11, 2011, 08:26:30 AM
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on July 11, 2011, 07:01:10 AM
Yes children do stupid things with their webcams, but that is not the internets fault. Parents need to educate themselves, and install nanny systems on their computers if they would like to make sure their children aren't doing inappropriate things on the internet. Why should adults be punished because parents can't properly look after their children?
Also, I believe the webcam sites you speak of have age verification as well as moderators. Im sure there are young people doing inappropriate things, but that is the parents who should be better monotering their children, not the sites.
Unfortunately the sites I am discussing have neither age verification nor any evidence of moderation, intended or otherwise. If the sites concerned did make a reasonable attempt to ensure that only adults accessed their services then I would not have an issue with them, however in these cases no such attempt is made.
The 'it's the parents responsibility' is true, but only up to a point. That point comes when an adult is aware of children being abused and does nothing about it because it's not their kid. To my mind an adult that stands by while abuse happens really does have to take a serious look at their own moral compass.
Did you mention previously what sites your referring to? I understand if you don't want to for obvious reasons. I never understood the dateline episodes that advertise how to get the things they are demonizing. For example, when they show you how to make a bomb and put a "censor" label on the Bleach.
No, I have not mentioned the sites names as I do not think they should be promoted and we do have kids as members here.
I assumed you hadn't, and that's what I was getting at. Well out of respect for you (the thread creator) and Whitney, I will refrain from using names, in case they are one of the culprits.
Actually, I don't even think it is necessary... I have just registered for Skype in order to talk to my grandma, but I imagine that could be abused in the way you are talking about. If they asked for age, it was just the simply select your b-day and your in. I imagine that could be used in negative ways, though I imagine it would be less likely than what your talking about.
I think if the sites were blatantly allowing that kind of behavior for profit, it's wrong, but I still maintain the parents are mostly to blame. As for other adults not condoning the behavior. I know most sites have a report button. I'm sure there are people clicking it, and yes, it may simply be the sites not doing anything about it.
Ultimately, though I think the first line of defense are the parents.
I don't think it's possible to truly monitor the internet from any angle. You may stop people accessing certain sites but its easy to sidestep these measures if you really want to.
In terms of age verification the current online systems are easy to bypass. It may be possible to implement a Japanese style cigarette machine facial recognition software (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7395910.stm) using webcams for certain sites, but there are problems with recognition software as you can use pictures to bypass this, if people who want to access something will always find ways to access the content.
When an institution starts to decide what is and isn't acceptable on the internet you have to be extremely careful of who is in charge and why there motivated, as I certainly do not want a digital version of book burning.