Happy Atheist Forum

I'm writing an essay about atheism and belief in god / religion. I'm not an atheist nor am I a believer in god. Basically I'm on the fence, and until now it's not something that I've given much thought to, hence why I feel the need to ask both sides. For the belief in god / religion part of the essay, I've begun asking believers and religious people about their views, and for the atheism part I'm here to ask about atheism.

So, any input will be appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Gilmore

Before I personally get around to giving you some input I'd like to know which educational institution you attend please.

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

Quote from: "Tank"Hi Gilmore

Before I personally get around to giving you some input I'd like to know which educational institution you attend please.

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

Is that necessary? I don't see why that would make any difference.

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Tank"Hi Gilmore

Before I personally get around to giving you some input I'd like to know which educational institution you attend please.

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

Is that necessary? I don't see why that would make any difference.

Oh it does, believe me! If you require honest and open answers to your questions I would appreciate an equivalent level of openness and honesty on your part please. I just like to know my audience before engaging.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Tank"Hi Gilmore

Before I personally get around to giving you some input I'd like to know which educational institution you attend please.

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

Is that necessary? I don't see why that would make any difference.

Oh it does, believe me! If you require honest and open answers to your questions I would appreciate an equivalent level of openness and honesty on your part please. I just like to know my audience before engaging.

I appreciate the need for honesty and openness, Chris, and I'm glad you value it too. However you're asking me to tell you which college I go to, and some people would be a little bit uncomfortable giving that kind of personal information on an online forum. I'm sure you can respect that.

Hello and welcome to HAF, Gilmore Rabens.  Since it would be easy to get general information on atheism and atheists through websites/blogs and books, you must be seeking some anecdotal personalized information: What does a particular willing responder to your questions think?  I'm willing to answer a question or two.

 I understand Tank's desire for more information, as well as your reluctance to divulge too much specific information online.  Perhaps generalized yet pertinent information would suffice. Such as: What country and or region you're in.  What your current level of study is. What sort of college you're attending (religious, secular, private, public, large, small).

I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here.

Quote from: "Recusant"Hello and welcome to HAF, Gilmore Rabens.  Since it would be easy to get general information on atheism and atheists through websites/blogs and books, you must be seeking some anecdotal personalized information: What does a particular willing responder to your questions think?  I'm willing to answer a question or two.

 I understand Tank's desire for more information, as well as your reluctance to divulge too much specific information online.  Perhaps generalized yet pertinent information would suffice. Such as: What country and or region you're in.  What your current level of study is. What sort of college you're attending (religious, secular, private, public, large, small).

I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here.

No worries, check your inbox.

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"I appreciate the need for honesty and openness, Chris, and I'm glad you value it too. However you're asking me to tell you which college I go to, and some people would be a little bit uncomfortable giving that kind of personal information on an online forum. I'm sure you can respect that.

I can understand not giving out your university if you're using your real name. I ask the question because in the past we have been abused by people who make exactly the claims you do and turn out to be undercover theists who get part of their qualifications by having to submit posts to atheist forums. And it happens around this time of year. Call me paranoid  

What is the essay going to be used for?

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Recusant"Hello and welcome to HAF, Gilmore Rabens.  Since it would be easy to get general information on atheism and atheists through websites/blogs and books, you must be seeking some anecdotal personalized information: What does a particular willing responder to your questions think?  I'm willing to answer a question or two.

 I understand Tank's desire for more information, as well as your reluctance to divulge too much specific information online.  Perhaps generalized yet pertinent information would suffice. Such as: What country and or region you're in.  What your current level of study is. What sort of college you're attending (religious, secular, private, public, large, small).

I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here.

No worries, check your inbox.

I think Recusent's post gets my concerns exactly.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"I appreciate the need for honesty and openness, Chris, and I'm glad you value it too. However you're asking me to tell you which college I go to, and some people would be a little bit uncomfortable giving that kind of personal information on an online forum. I'm sure you can respect that.

I can understand not giving out your university if you're using your real name. I ask the question because in the past we have been abused by people who make exactly the claims you do and turn out to be undercover theists who get part of their qualifications by having to submit posts to atheist forums. And it happens around this time of year. Call me paranoid  

I hear that. No worries.

Quote from: "Whitney"What is the essay going to be used for?

It's just an essay, I'm not planning on doing else anything with it. Not that I'd know how to even if I did.

Quote from: TankI ask the question because in the past we have been abused by people who make exactly the claims you do and turn out to be undercover theists who get part of their qualifications by having to submit posts to atheist forums. And it happens around this time of year. Call me paranoid  :hide:

Meh, even if this were the case (which the OP has informed me privately it is not), I'm willing to answer a question or two.

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Whitney"What is the essay going to be used for?

It's just an essay, I'm not planning on doing else anything with it. Not that I'd know how to even if I did.

So you are writing a formal essay but it's not for a class, article etc?

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Whitney"What is the essay going to be used for?

It's just an essay, I'm not planning on doing else anything with it. Not that I'd know how to even if I did.

So you are writing a formal essay but it's not for a class, article etc?

Yes it's just for my course. If I was a better writer than I am, I might consider publishing it somewhere (if it goes well), but alas I wouldn't know where to start. Maybe one day in the future, if I become a bit better at writing, I might think about it. Do you know anything about how to get an essay published?

What exactly are you looking for on atheism?

Quote from: "xSilverPhinx"What exactly are you looking for on atheism?

I don't have anything specific in mind, as I'm just trying to get some idea of where to start.

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "xSilverPhinx"What exactly are you looking for on atheism?

I don't have anything specific in mind, as I'm just trying to get some idea of where to start.

The only thing common to all atheists is that they don't believe in any gods.  Past that individual atheists differ in many ways.  Does that get you started?

Well there are plenty of threads here with everything from deconversion stories to anecdotes...

Which class is the essay for?

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "xSilverPhinx"What exactly are you looking for on atheism?

I don't have anything specific in mind, as I'm just trying to get some idea of where to start.

The only thing common to all atheists is that they don't believe in any gods.  Past that individual atheists differ in many ways.  Does that get you started?

That could be an angle. How long have you been an atheist?

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"That could be an angle. How long have you been an atheist?

Um...like 6 or 7 years I guess.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"That could be an angle. How long have you been an atheist?

Um...like 6 or 7 years I guess.

Is it a big part of your life?

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"That could be an angle. How long have you been an atheist?

Um...like 6 or 7 years I guess.

Is it a big part of your life?

At the risk of offending forum members...no.   Being an atheist isn't that important to me, it's just something that labels me correctly.   Things like promoting religious tolerance, freethought, and rational thinking are a rather large part of my life next to career related things.

These two threads would be worth a read,

viewtopic.php?p=74241#p74241 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=74241#p74241)
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=5111 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=5111)

What thoughts crossed your mind as you read those?

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"That could be an angle.

That IS an angle and the most accurate one at that. The only thing two atheists who have never met before know they have in common (apart from physical characteristics and the like) is that both do not believe in gods. One can be a socialist while the other is a liberal democrat. One can be for death penalty, the other against. Etc, etc.

You can not analyse the moral values of atheism, for instance, as it has none. It is nothing more than lack of a belief, like being tumor-free is a lack of tumor (Doesn't say anything about genital warts - just the tumors)

Quote from: "whitney"At the risk of offending forum members...no. Being an atheist isn't that important to me, it's just something that labels me correctly

Same. Atheism is just something that defines a certain aspect of me, like having a tattoo or lacking in skin quality.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"That could be an angle.

That IS an angle and the most accurate one at that. The only thing two atheists who have never met before know they have in common (apart from physical characteristics and the like) is that both do not believe in gods. One can be a socialist while the other is a liberal democrat. One can be for death penalty, the other against. Etc, etc.

You can not analyse the moral values of atheism, for instance, as it has none. It is nothing more than lack of a belief, like being tumor-free is a lack of tumor (Doesn't say anything about genital warts - just the tumors)

Quote from: "whitney"At the risk of offending forum members...no. Being an atheist isn't that important to me, it's just something that labels me correctly

Same. Atheism is just something that defines a certain aspect of me, like having a tattoo or lacking in skin quality.

Are there certain things that atheists tend to have in common?

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"Are there certain things that atheists tend to have in common?

In my experience atheists tend to be very curious, sceptical of all thing supernatural, independent thinkers, distrustful of authority these things come to mind.

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"Are there certain things that atheists tend to have in common?

Lack of a belief in gods.

Beyond that, we have as much or as little in common as random people in a crowd.

Although Atheism means lack of a belief in god/s and other than that there are no teachings or scripture of documented morals I do feel you can derive something much more meaningful.

From my time on this site I have learnt much more about what an Atheist is and what the difference are between Atheists and Theists.
I think it is best to approach Atheism by desribing what it is not about. There are many misconceptions.

Atheism is not:
- the denial or rejection of god/s.
 - anti religion.
 - a position that there are definately no god/s

Atheism does not have a scripture, does not have a common set of "morals".

Atheists are not evil (be default) and are not motivated by a desire to get away with sinful acts.

Atheism is the natural state of everything that exists, be it living or not (My car, my neighbor's dog and myself are all Atheists).
All Theists were born as Atheists, they were subsequently introduced to the concept of a god and was taught to believe in their flavour of god/s.

In General:
Atheists do not
 - ascribe to life having an objective purpose
 - agree to there being an objective morality
 - have a dependancy on static scripture with regards to understanding what is wrong or right.
 - state that there are definately no gods

Atheists are likley to
 - Have a humanistic view of the world
 - require proof or evidence of theories
 - engage critical thought to ideas and theories
 - be tolerant of others regardless of race, religion, gender, culture, lifestyle, sexual preference...
 - be for equal rights

You could say that if there were such a thing as objective morality then Atheists are more likely to be in tune with this objective morality than Theists. This is because they do not have the bias of scripture dictating what the moralities should be.
You could say that only Atheists are capable of being selfless, since Atheists have no expectation of going to heaven or being reincarnated as some prefered creature due to performing good acts during this life time.

But for the most part Atheists do not think about god/s or lack of god/s. Atheists do not have daily rituals supporting the stance of Atheism. To an Atheist, the label of being an Atheist is a very minor label amongst the multitude of labels that a person has.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"Are there certain things that atheists tend to have in common?

In my experience atheists tend to be very curious, sceptical of all thing supernatural, independent thinkers, distrustful of authority these things come to mind.

In what ways are atheists independent thinkers?

Quote from: "Stevil"Although Atheism means lack of a belief in god/s and other than that there are no teachings or scripture of documented morals I do feel you can derive something much more meaningful.

From my time on this site I have learnt much more about what an Atheist is and what the difference are between Atheists and Theists.
I think it is best to approach Atheism by desribing what it is not about. There are many misconceptions.

Atheism is not:
- the denial or rejection of god/s.
 - anti religion.
 - a position that there are definately no god/s

Atheism does not have a scripture, does not have a common set of "morals".

Atheists are not evil (be default) and are not motivated by a desire to get away with sinful acts.

Atheism is the natural state of everything that exists, be it living or not (My car, my neighbor's dog and myself are all Atheists).
All Theists were born as Atheists, they were subsequently introduced to the concept of a god and was taught to believe in their flavour of god/s.

In General:
Atheists do not
 - ascribe to life having an objective purpose
 - agree to there being an objective morality
 - have a dependancy on static scripture with regards to understanding what is wrong or right.
 - state that there are definately no gods

Atheists are likley to
 - Have a humanistic view of the world
 - require proof or evidence of theories
 - engage critical thought to ideas and theories
 - be tolerant of others regardless of race, religion, gender, culture, lifestyle, sexual preference...
 - be for equal rights

You could say that if there were such a thing as objective morality then Atheists are more likely to be in tune with this objective morality than Theists. This is because they do not have the bias of scripture dictating what the moralities should be.
You could say that only Atheists are capable of being selfless, since Atheists have no expectation of going to heaven or being reincarnated as some prefered creature due to performing good acts during this life time.

But for the most part Atheists do not think about god/s or lack of god/s. Atheists do not have daily rituals supporting the stance of Atheism. To an Atheist, the label of being an Atheist is a very minor label amongst the multitude of labels that a person has.

How does an atheist's tolerance of others' religion tie in with a sense of being more moral?

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"How does an atheist's tolerance of others' religion tie in with a sense of being more moral?

Who said anything about being more moral? Define moral?

Quote from: "Tank"In my experience atheists tend to be very curious, sceptical of all thing supernatural, independent thinkers, distrustful of authority these things come to mind.

...And they only apply to a group of atheists. Yes, most out-spoken atheists would probably be able to identify with what you said, yet there are those who, despite being atheists, believe in reincarnation and then there are those who really just don't care about the more "supernatural" matters. Then there are small children... So much for distrusting authority there...

...You see what I'm saying, yes? Can you, for instance, say what non-blond people have in common except the color of their hair..? Even in general terms? Am I curious because I'm an atheist or am I an atheist because I'm curious? Or maybe the corelation is so weak it isn't actually significant?

Quote from: "Tank"In my experience atheists tend to be very curious, sceptical of all thing supernatural, independent thinkers, distrustful of authority these things come to mind.

...And they only apply to a group of atheists. Yes, most out-spoken atheists would probably be able to identify with what you said, yet there are those who, despite being atheists, believe in reincarnation and then there are those who really just don't care about the more "supernatural" matters. Then there are small children... So much for distrusting authority there...

...You see what I'm saying, yes? Can you, for instance, say what non-blond people have in common except the color of their hair..? Even in general terms? Am I curious because I'm an atheist or am I an atheist because I'm curious? Or maybe the corelation is so weak it isn't actually significant?

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"How does an atheist's tolerance of others' religion tie in with a sense of being more moral?

Who said anything about being more moral? Define moral?

Gilmore...do you think that when people ask you questions you could respond to them?  I think that will help you get better answers to your own questions.

mainly posting to see if the posting function is working (it's not very happy when I try to delete things right now so I'll have to try that later).

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"Are there certain things that atheists tend to have in common?

In my experience atheists tend to be very curious, sceptical of all thing supernatural, independent thinkers, distrustful of authority these things come to mind.

In what ways are atheists independent thinkers?

They tend to be more imaginative and think outside the box, compared to theists that I have come across online. However that may be a factor in the sort of atheists and theists that go online as much as the general population. The atheists I have met online and in real life don't keep referring back to their dogma seeing what it will allow them to think about and how to think about it. As there is no atheist dogma/scripture atheists tend to take an idea and reference it to what they already know with one less huge biasing factor built into their world view. Atheists also know they don't know anything for certain, which is not the case with some theists that I have met. This lack of certainty gives a world view where independent personal thought is the rule, not the exception. I cannot trust anything as absolutly as a fundamentalist theist can.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Tank"In my experience atheists tend to be very curious, sceptical of all thing supernatural, independent thinkers, distrustful of authority these things come to mind.

...And they only apply to a group of atheists. Yes, most out-spoken atheists would probably be able to identify with what you said, yet there are those who, despite being atheists, believe in reincarnation and then there are those who really just don't care about the more "supernatural" matters. Then there are small children... So much for distrusting authority there...

...You see what I'm saying, yes? Can you, for instance, say what non-blond people have in common except the color of their hair..? Even in general terms? Am I curious because I'm an atheist or am I an atheist because I'm curious? Or maybe the corelation is so weak it isn't actually significant?

Personally I think that atheism is an effect not a cause. I'm an atheist as a result of my understanding of how the world works and the lack of any reliable evidence for the existance of the supernatural. Any person could possibly come to my point of view. But my true hair colour is determined by my genes and is immutable from that respect. As you say is there a causal link between curiosity and atheism? Well there could be, but there are many curious theists, so I doubt the link is significant.

Quote from: "Stevil"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"How does an atheist's tolerance of others' religion tie in with a sense of being more moral?

Who said anything about being more moral? Define moral?

I was just asking if it did.

Quote from: "Whitney"Gilmore...do you think that when people ask you questions you could respond to them?  I think that will help you get better answers to your own questions.

mainly posting to see if the posting function is working (it's not very happy when I try to delete things right now so I'll have to try that later).

Sorry but the forum was down for a couple of days so I couldn't even view anything. What do you want to know?

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Whitney"Gilmore...do you think that when people ask you questions you could respond to them?  I think that will help you get better answers to your own questions.

mainly posting to see if the posting function is working (it's not very happy when I try to delete things right now so I'll have to try that later).

Sorry but the forum was down for a couple of days so I couldn't even view anything. What do you want to know?

Other people asked you questions before the forum started having issues...those are the ones I was referring to.

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"

Quote from: "Stevil"

Quote from: "Gilmore Rabens"How does an atheist's tolerance of others' religion tie in with a sense of being more moral?

Who said anything about being more moral? Define moral?

I was just asking if it did.

It was a strange way that you worded your question. I would have expected it as "Do you think an atheist's tolerance of others' religion ties in with a sense of being more moral?"

Really, I think it is difficult to say that someone is more moral than another person without defining a set of morals as the measuring stick. The problem with this is that there are no universally agreed morals.
If you have your own set of morals and you see someone else not adhering to them, then that does not mean that you are more moral than them. Their morals maybe different to yours, so you are plying by different rules.
I would say that it is more likely for an Atheist to be humanistic than it is for a theist. For example when scripture states that it is immoral for someone to be homosexual then it is difficult for a theist to treat a homosexual person as an equal and to give them and their relationships the respect that they deserve. Especially if that homosexual is their own son or daughter.
An Atheist does not have such a static prescribed demand with regards to a stance on this position, hence an Atheist could choose to be non judgmental.