Happy Atheist Forum

Looking for a little advise and help here. I'm no longer a Christian, I don't want to classify my beliefs as anything in particular (athiest, Agnostic, Diest etc..) but I do not believe in the Judeo-Christian god. The mythology in the bible makes little or no logical sense to me.

My girlfriend is a Christian, however she doesn't seem to be devoutly religious. She accepts the theory of evolution, and the scientific age of the Earth. However she has made comments about me going to church with her. This is something I don't particularly mind, so long as nobody expects me to take it too seriously. I don't think she takes is completely seriously as she has told me that the bible must be taken with a grain of salt and interpreted according to the cultural context of the time in which it was written.

I know the logical thing to do is to try to discuss the matter. She is very smart and rational, and I think a well thought out logical argument would if not convince her, at least help explain my views. But how would you suggest I go about this?

As a Christian who is in a relationship with someone who is not a Christian I may be able to give you some things to think about

One:  The book that through history as been a powerful infulence in peoples lives is not myth.

http://www.allabouttruth.org/bible-trut ... th-faq.htm (http://www.allabouttruth.org/bible-truth-or-myth-faq.htm)

If you are an honest seeker of truth then don't close the book on the possibility of things beyond your current level of understanding.

If she is a marginal or as I call it a cultural Christian then the typical emotional arguments with appeal to strawmen like Flying Spaghetti Monsters and Santa Clause should do the trick.  Also the religious regard some have for science may work when you talk of the non empirically demonstrable parts of the evolutionary hypothesis.

See Links

http://www.skepdic.com/scientism.html (http://www.skepdic.com/scientism.html)

http://atheism-analyzed.blogspot.com/20 ... nists.html (http://atheism-analyzed.blogspot.com/2009/03/challenge-to-evolutionists.html)

You may also want to consider the issue of why women tend not to be atheists.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_ap ... g_to_women (http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_appears_to_be_significantly_less_appealing_to_women)

So be ready if this issue returns later in life and as always be a fearless seeker of truth because not only is it stranger then fiction it can be discovered in a multitude of ways.

Regardless of all the above all relationships should be based on honesty and truth for we are all only as sick as our secrets.

Simply tell her that you respect her and her beliefs and you hope that she can respect you and yours. I hope she simply wants you in church so that she can have some company/ spend time with you. Hopefully she is not harbouring hopes in conversion as it may lead to disappointment.

Try not to discuss controversy around the bible with her, this will only highlight your differences. You can focus on your similarities. No doubt, values and morally wise you agree about most things.

When I decided to "quit" religion, I started much the same way as your girlfriend. I had a firm belief in science and accepted the bible as a moral guidebook. I later read up on deism, and thought it made a lot more sense than religion. From there I gradually transitioned to atheism. I think I was under a lot of pressure from friends and family to conform to the religious majority, but eventually the want for things to make sense outweighed the want to fit in.

I think if you want her to consider your ideas, the best way to go about it would be to present her with your own personal reasons why you believe what you believe, encourage her to learn about different world views, including varying degrees of theism, and determine if any of them better fit with her own ideas. Sometimes, just having that knowledge that wasn't available to you before can make you think about things you never would have thought about. In the end, it doesn't really matter what she believes, as long as she's being honest with herself about why she believes it.

My wife is Christian.  I think you have a chance since your gf seems to not be one of the Bible-bashers.  My wife is Christian really in name only.  She doesn't believe in church, and only loosely holds on to belief, more out of default.  She fears having nothing supernatural to believe in.  When bad things happen, she likes to think of it as God's will.  She wants to believe in God because she wants to believe in heaven, that her 21 year old cousin had a heaven to go to when she died, that it didn't just end for her.  It helps her deal with things she would otherwise feel are unfair.  I don't mind that.

She doesn't consider my lack of belief to be a big issue.  She loves me for the man I am, not for beliefs I hold or don't hold.  I used to treat her well when I was Christian, but I treat her even better now, and I think she realizes that.  I wouldn't mind going to the Bible studies, but I wouldn't want to go to church itself.  It's just too boring to be good use of my time.  However, if my wife really wanted to go and really wanted me to go with her, I would.  She wouldn't want that to convert me, but more so that she doesn't lose out on spending time with me.  But again she has lost faith in church completely, so not much chance of that.

As long as you both understand each others' beliefs and aren't making it your life mission to convert each other, it can work out.  Keep cynicism to a minimum, and let her have her beliefs if she wants them.  Many people just want to believe in magic, and that's not necessarily evil.  I used to tell my wife how Chris Angel mindfreak and other magicians, as well as all the ghost hunters and such, weren't real.  She knew that deep down, but she doesn't want me to ruin those things for her.  She enjoys it, and when I do ruin them for her, it's just taking some of the magic out of her life.  It's harmless, really, so I bite my lips about such things now and just enjoy them with her.

I think this depends on your level of mutual respect and specific communication styles, because it appears that neither of you are leaning so strongly in either direction that middle ground cannot be found. This is lucky, I'd say, as being strongly atheist and discussing these things with someone very religious is...well...not something I would want to do every day.

If you both express your beliefs and try to find commonalities, things can go smoothly. If you're looking to discuss ideas you're throwing around, change her mind, or have her go on your journey of finding out what you believe, it's going to get ugly.

The only thing you can do is be open, honest, and understanding and hope that she is able to do the same in return.  

Btw, it's not that women are less likely to be atheists...they are just not that interested in the old white man clubs that many atheist groups had become (and those old white man groups know it and are trying to be more appealing to women and minorities).  There are a lot of women in the free thought groups which incorporate social, family and recreational activities in addition to the philosophical presentations that are common to the older groups.  FoF has more women on the board than men and the crowd always looks to be about 50/50 on gender ratios.

Quote from: "Whitney"Btw, it's not that women are less likely to be atheists...they are just not that interested in the old white man clubs that many atheist groups had become (and those old white man groups know it and are trying to be more appealing to women and minorities).  There are a lot of women in the free thought groups which incorporate social, family and recreational activities in addition to the philosophical presentations that are common to the older groups.  FoF has more women on the board than men and the crowd always looks to be about 50/50 on gender ratios.

There's a pervasive and unfortunate belief in the social sciences (my professor was just banging on about this very thing) that women are so emotionally oriented they are therefore less likely to be skeptical, and more likely to embrace dogma without question and are generally more prone to the "loving nature of religion". Pshaw.

I think the most important thing about keeping my wife and I not only together, but incredibly happy with each other and incredibly in love... is the fact that her religious views aren't important to me, and my religious views are not important to her.  What is important to us is how we look at each other, respond to each other, have fun together, and stick through hard times by working together.

That's certainly admirable. I consider myself extremely lucky to have found an atheist, because I know I couldn't be with a religious person.

May I weigh in?  I am NOT freeservant (who IS a Xn), but his gf (a non-Xn).

What comes to my mind is this: has she asked for such a conversation?  Perhaps the ball should be in her court...

Quote from: "freeservant"May I weigh in?  I am NOT freeservant (who IS a Xn), but his gf (a non-Xn).

Really?
I don't know freeservant in the real world, but on here he seems very evangalistic. You must be having to defend your position with him alot.

Thanks for all the insight! I had a feeling that the issue would need to be discussed eventually. I've decided that instead of trying to bring it up I'll just sit back and allow it to come up when it will. I'll simply state my doubts and the reasons I have them and hope she can accept that. Like I said I'm perfectly content to go to church to keep her company, but I'm not going to be taking it seriously.

Quote from: "Ulver"

Quote from: "Whitney"Btw, it's not that women are less likely to be atheists...they are just not that interested in the old white man clubs that many atheist groups had become (and those old white man groups know it and are trying to be more appealing to women and minorities).

So this. Plus, women (especially in traditional set ups) are often pegged as "culture carriers". A woman might actually identify as atheist, but she feels the need to appear religious for the "children's sake" or to fulfill some kind of traditional role in the family.

Well that ended badly, the topic came up and I told her I was not a Christian. She kept telling me I was lost, and that I needed to grow up and join the real world.... The relationship pretty much fell apart right afterwards.

Quote from: "Laser Sailor"Well that ended badly, the topic came up and I told her I was not a Christian. She kept telling me I was lost, and that I needed to grow up and join the real world.... The relationship pretty much fell apart right afterwards.

Sorry to hear, but it is better you find out sooner than later. Some Christian's are pretty intolerant, they get taught that the whole world should be Christian.

Quote from: "Laser Sailor"Well that ended badly, the topic came up and I told her I was not a Christian. She kept telling me I was lost, and that I needed to grow up and join the real world.... The relationship pretty much fell apart right afterwards.

Bummer. Sorry to read that.

Quote from: "Laser Sailor"Well that ended badly, the topic came up and I told her I was not a Christian. She kept telling me I was lost, and that I needed to grow up and join the real world.... The relationship pretty much fell apart right afterwards.

That sucks.  

It's also unfortunate that she couldn't be respectful about your differences. I don't see anything inherently "grown-up" about being religious.  

Sorry about that.

At least you'll be better off in the long run.

I feel bad for you man.  Sorry it didn't work out.