Happy Atheist Forum

Hello, everyone.

I'm not typically good at these introduction posts, but I do want to get things off on the right foot.

I'm a 26-year old author and editor, who answers phones and performs data entry to pay the bills. I graduated from Missouri State University in 2008 with a degree in Creative Writing and a minor in religious studies. Until meeting my fiancé, I identified as an agnostic.

I grew up in an odd marriage of secular liberalism and religious indoctrination. My grandfather is a bible-thumping Church of Christ minister. My mother has never been fundamental and enjoyed an on-again-off-again relationship with church. As a single mother, she often couldn't manage a working schedule and looking after me and my younger brother, so we ended up staying with my grandparents more often than not. This resulted in weekly Wednesday night services, Sunday services, and Sunday evening services. My mother could never claim to be an atheist, and still has trouble with the fact I labeled myself as such, but she has always leaned independent-liberal in her ideology, yet likewise never bothered to put a disclaimer on what I learned in the Church of Christ.

For those of you unfamiliar with the Church of Christ, they are an extremely conservative congregation, of the persuasion that not only will non-believers go to Hell, but indeed all congregations that are not Church of Christ, Christian or not. This never made sense to me, and I remember arguing vehemently with my very uncomfortable grandmother that it made little difference where and how church was conducted. Now, more enlightened CoC congregations might be of a different mindset, but the one in which I grew up subscribed to that belief.

When I was eight or nine, I was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. My OCD started in the familiar way of contamination fears, including but not limited to food contamination, poison contamination, germ contamination, and so on. I'd also repeatedly check the locks on the house at night before convincing myself no one would break in to kill my family. I became certain that something would happen to my mother, and would repeatedly page and/or call her at the office to make sure she was all right and hadn't been in an accident. This behavior came to a halt after a few sessions with a therapist, but my OCD resurfaced a few months later with the lesser-known obsessions: these being horrific thoughts about killing your loved ones. I was terrified of these thoughts and did everything I could to not have them, which (if you know anything about OCD) only made the symptoms worse. To exacerbate the issue, I was convinced I was going to Hell because of my thoughts, and would pray over and over again for forgiveness, just knowing if I were struck dead God would want nothing to do with me. For three months, I kept my suffering to myself because I knew I was the only person in the world who had ever had unwanted violent thoughts (which is absolute rubbish:"harm" thoughts about being a danger to others and oneself are among the most common for OCD sufferers (http://www.ocfoundation.org/whatisocd.aspx)). For those months, I routinely prayed for forgiveness, which was, of course, a futile effort. The second I envisioned my inner "slate" as clean, I'd have a violent thought and have to start all over again. One night, unable to live in my head any longer, I confessed my thoughts to my mother....who did not react particularly well, but that's another story. Suffice to say, I reentered therapy and learned my contamination fears had merely assumed a new form. OCD sufferers with these symptoms react so adversely to their thoughts because they know it is absolutely against their core self. I was merely a statistic of one in three.

It was understanding myself as an obsessive compulsive that first had me questioning religion. I began drifting away from the teachings I learned in Sunday school and eventually opted to not attend at all. I believed in God in passing, but not enough to care about the things I cared about when I thought I was damned. I also unknowingly began developing my political belief system. Once while in the car with my father, I saw some protesters outside a pharmacy who were speaking against abortion. Once my father explained what abortion was, I spent a very concentrated car ride home concluding I disagreed with the protesters and thought abortion was a personal decision that didn't involve them. I don't remember when exactly this was, but I was no younger than eight and no older than eleven. Similarly, it never occurred to me that homosexuals were deserving of Hell until I heard it one day in Sunday school. I was appalled that anyone would suggest it, let alone teach it in a church.  

Throughout high school, I maintained a roster of ideologically diverse friends but always ended up arguing liberal viewpoints when confronted with religious or conservative debates. I'm actually not certain when I stopped identifying myself as a Christian. Somewhere between believing gays weren't any different than us heteros and finding myself increasingly irritated that I had ever thought my OCD would land me in Hell, I became an agnostic.

When I entered college, I started taking religion courses because I was genuinely curious about the origins of the most popular belief systems of the day. I took one, then another, then another, and it somehow ended up being my minor. I volunteered for political campaigns, national and local, and wandered through agnosticism until my fiancé told me atheism doesn't mean not allowing for the possibility of a deity, which was what I had always thought. Rather, it's the position of, "Well...there might be a god. I just don't believe it."

I am an atheist with an opinion of religion that changes from day to day. I have seen the good it does: my grandparents and I do not agree on anything politically or ideologically, but they are very good people who have, to my observation, always lived by their beliefs. I have also seen the bad: anti-science education, religious arguments to restrict the freedom of all persons from enjoying the rights of others, protests, condemnation, judgment, and so on.

As for the rest...I'm a writer, mostly of paranormal romances (not a Twilight fan. I hail from the days of Buffy). I'm also an editor for Mundania LLC, and I do enjoy conversation, debate, and overall communication with both like-minded individuals and those who might not agree with me. I'm all for raising the level of debate, which means listening to differing viewpoints rather than talking over them. I look forward to getting to know users of this forum as well as learning better ways to explain myself to those who don't quite understand how an atheist can be moral and happy.

To those who read until the end, my thanks.

Peace,
Holly

Hello and welcome to HAF, hollyda! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif) Thank you for that extensive intro; I've always had a touch of OCD myself, but fortunately not enough for it to be a real problem. I sympathize with you though.
Wow, that's two writers joining here in as many days.  It must be that time of year.

I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here.

Quote from: "Recusant"Wow, that's two writers joining here in as many days.  It must be that time of year.

Yes it is good, but the highly articulate do make some us of look shabby by comparison.
Anyway welcome Holly, Recusant has done the thing so I'll just say grrrrr argh.

Heh. As I said, I don't like intros, but I know myself well enough to know that once I start, stopping is a little difficult. Thanks!

@The Magic Pudding - Re: Grrr, argh. BUNNIES, BUNNIES IT MUST BE BUNNIES!! ... or maybe midgets.

Welcome!  I hope you enjoy your stay.  Fell free to bring your fiancee!

Thanks!

I've told him about the forum, and he might drop by. He loves a spirited debate. Heh heh.

Well then he'll be sorely disappointed.  There isn't much debating going on here.  We expect our members to read and repeat our dogma.  There will be no freedom of thought or speech here.  The only thing allowed is regurgitation.

I think I took the wrong turn at Albuquerque....

Welcome to you, as well! Sounds like you had a bit of a rough child hood, and I hope you have healed from that.

Yeah, childhood was rough (and actually, I've blocked most of it out. Therapist says my brain is protecting me from the stuff that really hurt). But I believe I have healed. I'm marrying my best friend, I love what I do, and I'm very content with where I am.

Thank you! I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone here!

Hi holly

Makes note:- Beware if holly ever prefixes a post with 'long'  

Welcome to HAF!

Regards
Chris

Welcome, hollyda!

Thanks for the introduction. My reaction to the difficulty you've had was to think to myself, "Holy shit!"  Mainly because I don't know how I would have dealt with what you've had to deal with. Probably not as well as you have.

Glad to have you here, and I hope you fiancé decides to join too.

¡sɯnɹoÉŸ ǝɥʇ oʇ ǝɯoÉ"lǝʍ

Quote from: "Tank"Makes note:- Beware if holly ever prefixes a post with 'long'  ;) I went with "somewhat brief" because it was me in a nutshell, so it wasn't as long as it could've been. (You have been warned!)

Thanks!

Quote from: "Davin"¡sɯnɹoÉŸ ǝɥʇ oʇ ǝɯoÉ"lǝʍ

I really thought that was Greek for a moment. *fail*  

Quote from: "McQ"Welcome, hollyda!

Thanks for the introduction. My reaction to the difficulty you've had was to think to myself, "Holy shit!"  Mainly because I don't know how I would have dealt with what you've had to deal with. Probably not as well as you have.

Glad to have you here, and I hope you fiancé decides to join too.

Thank you.

It wasn't the best time, I'll be honest, and I had a lot of really dark days, but my story to date has a happy ending. What I took from it was: the closer I tried to get to religion, the more miserable I became. The second I stopped considering myself spiritually ill and actually ill is when I saw the light at the end of the tunnel.

At any rate, I appreciate it, and thanks again!

Thank you for sharing your story. It is a long and turbulent one, not unlike many of our stories. Many of the basics are probably fairly universal, growing up religious, discovering religious diversity of your own, becoming educated and ultimately finding more comfort in rationality than in blind faith. With that I say welcome, I am fairly new here as well and as of yet have been warned twice for “raising the level of debate” prior to acquiring my mandatory 50 posts. But I’m working on it. Hopefully soon we will be able to fully engage in conversations that will be enlightening to us both. In the mean time I would like to share the name David Sloan Wilson with you, I first heard him on a Big Ideas podcast about a month ago. His talk consisted of outlining the idea of meaning systems and how religion evolved along with various other meaning systems. The concept that struck me most powerfully was the idea that from an evolutionary standpoint, a meaning systems truth content is irrelevant, a meaning system will persist based solely on what it causes you to do, or what behaviors it promotes. Now by looking at it one could postulate that this is a group evolution idea but in essence it is at the genetic level that we are able to form such powerful belief systems, the belief system itself that we eventually adopt can be attributed to culture and nurture. In the same regard that we have evolved a system for digestion, yet the foods we eat are our choice, barring those that are toxic. Our capacity for and our level of indulgence in a belief system is evolved yet we get to culturally choose which belief system we subscribe to, even if that belief system is a belief in non belief i.e. atheism. The genetic coding is the same, the context and content hold no meaning and any belief system will be populated by moderates and fundamentalists in equal proportions to the populations that are in them. It really got me thinking, especially considering the fact that I am still unsure how far genetic selection reaches into our everyday behavior and how much we are able to overwrite our genetic coding by free will.

Quote from: "fester30"Well then he'll be sorely disappointed.  There isn't much debating going on here.  We expect our members to read and repeat our dogma.  There will be no freedom of thought or speech here.  The only thing allowed is regurgitation.

I fail to see how in your sarky reply you have helped elevate the level of discussion in this forum, in particular this topic. Perhaps instead of offering your regurgitated dreary complaints you could have enlightened us all with your profound insight. Instead all we get is this haughty jibe. It is clear that you would prefer a forum that was rich with original thought and insight. Tell me then how did your post contribute to or detract from that ideal?

That was a really interesting introduction, Holly. Welcome to the forum.

Do you mind if I ask how you're doing with your OCD?

Quote from: "Twentythree"Thank you for sharing your story. It is a long and turbulent one, not unlike many of our stories. Many of the basics are probably fairly universal, growing up religious, discovering religious diversity of your own, becoming educated and ultimately finding more comfort in rationality than in blind faith. With that I say welcome, I am fairly new here as well and as of yet have been warned twice for “raising the level of debate” prior to acquiring my mandatory 50 posts. But I’m working on it. Hopefully soon we will be able to fully engage in conversations that will be enlightening to us both. In the mean time I would like to share the name David Sloan Wilson with you, I first heard him on a Big Ideas podcast about a month ago. His talk consisted of outlining the idea of meaning systems and how religion evolved along with various other meaning systems. The concept that struck me most powerfully was the idea that from an evolutionary standpoint, a meaning systems truth content is irrelevant, a meaning system will persist based solely on what it causes you to do, or what behaviors it promotes. Now by looking at it one could postulate that this is a group evolution idea but in essence it is at the genetic level that we are able to form such powerful belief systems, the belief system itself that we eventually adopt can be attributed to culture and nurture. In the same regard that we have evolved a system for digestion, yet the foods we eat are our choice, barring those that are toxic. Our capacity for and our level of indulgence in a belief system is evolved yet we get to culturally choose which belief system we subscribe to, even if that belief system is a belief in non belief i.e. atheism. The genetic coding is the same, the context and content hold no meaning and any belief system will be populated by moderates and fundamentalists in equal proportions to the populations that are in them. It really got me thinking, especially considering the fact that I am still unsure how far genetic selection reaches into our everyday behavior and how much we are able to overwrite our genetic coding by free will.

Wow, that was intense. LOL. Thank you for the welcome, and I definitely look forward to reaching the 50 mark. Thank you for the rec; my fiancé and I are going on a road trip in a bit and we're looking for material to listen to on the way.

Quote from: "Will"That was a really interesting introduction, Holly. Welcome to the forum.

Thanks!

Quote from: "Will"Do you mind if I ask how you're doing with your OCD?

Very good, actually. I've been on medication since high school to help balance out the serotonin levels, and exposure therapy to addresses the psychological aspects. I'm pretty active in OCD support groups and have accepted I'll always have OCD and the cure is learning how to manage it. There are bad days, but the good far outweigh the bad. I visit a therapist, but only as needed, and mostly we talk about how awesome I'm doing. Hehe. Admittedly, it does wonders that my fiancé has made a point to learn about it, and is patient and supportive when I need to lean on him.

Really, all I can do is admit I'm allowed to be obsessive and not worry when I spike, try not to fight the thoughts as they come, and just let them be in my head as I let time pass.

Quote from: "Twentythree"

Quote from: "fester30"Well then he'll be sorely disappointed.  There isn't much debating going on here.  We expect our members to read and repeat our dogma.  There will be no freedom of thought or speech here.  The only thing allowed is regurgitation.

I fail to see how in your sarky reply you have helped elevate the level of discussion in this forum, in particular this topic. Perhaps instead of offering your regurgitated dreary complaints you could have enlightened us all with your profound insight. Instead all we get is this haughty jibe. It is clear that you would prefer a forum that was rich with original thought and insight. Tell me then how did your post contribute to or detract from that ideal?

Ooops! Irony detection failure  :)

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Twentythree"

Quote from: "fester30"Well then he'll be sorely disappointed.  There isn't much debating going on here.  We expect our members to read and repeat our dogma.  There will be no freedom of thought or speech here.  The only thing allowed is regurgitation.

I fail to see how in your sarky reply you have helped elevate the level of discussion in this forum, in particular this topic. Perhaps instead of offering your regurgitated dreary complaints you could have enlightened us all with your profound insight. Instead all we get is this haughty jibe. It is clear that you would prefer a forum that was rich with original thought and insight. Tell me then how did your post contribute to or detract from that ideal?

Ooops! Irony detection failure  :)

Fair enough, it is difficult to read irony. I may have overreacted but that may be because I have found experiences in other forums before to be laden with dagger tossing, nonsense and blatant cruelty. It is my goal to add something worthwhile to any discussion I engage in so to hear comments disparaging the integrity of the forum was disappointing. I also felt as though I had to be somewhat protective of the new member. I offer a sincere apology for being so sharp with my response. In rereading it I can see how the comment could have been made tongue in cheek. I am clearly still learning the nuances of the culture here.

Quote from: "Twentythree"Fair enough, it is difficult to read irony. I may have overreacted but that may be because I have found experiences in other forums before to be laden with dagger tossing, nonsense and blatant cruelty. It is my goal to add something worthwhile to any discussion I engage in so to hear comments disparaging the integrity of the forum was disappointing. I also felt as though I had to be somewhat protective of the new member. I offer a sincere apology for being so sharp with my response. In rereading it I can see how the comment could have been made tongue in cheek. I am clearly still learning the nuances of the culture here.

Oh, I understand perfectly. This place is different from all other forums I have visited. I had to read to fester30's comment twice and put it into context of the thread and my experience of fester30 to realise it was very much 'tongue in cheek'.

Welcome!

Thank you!

Quote from: "Tank"Oh, I understand perfectly. This place is different from all other forums I have visited. I had to read to fester30's comment twice and put it into context of the thread and my experience of fester30 to realise it was very much 'tongue in cheek'.

So what would have made it easier to interpret, one of these?  

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: "Tank"Oh, I understand perfectly. This place is different from all other forums I have visited. I had to read to fester30's comment twice and put it into context of the thread and my experience of fester30 to realise it was very much 'tongue in cheek'.

So what would have made it easier to interpret, one of these?  ;)

Welcome Holly!

My husband also has a mild form of OCD - and you know, I've never thought to ask him if it's ever had something to do with his turning away from religion? (He was raised Catholic) It's interesting, especially since there are a number religious people I've met who don't "believe" in OCD as an actual medical condition. I've never really thought about the potential connection before.  

So thanks for the food for thought! And it sounds like you are in a much happier place in your life

Quote from: "DeterminedJuliet"It's interesting, especially since there are a number religious people I've met who don't "believe" in OCD as an actual medical condition

This was especially true in the environment in which I grew up, which is the reason I kept praying for forgiveness. I thought there was something evil inside me that was trying to get me to think/do bad things, and the only way to quiet it was to beg God for forgiveness. It's very frustrating to see so many people afflicted with such a common ailment and think there's something wrong with them beyond the chemical imbalance in the brain. I'm active over on the Christian Forums as well, and there's a section there devoted to people with OCD. I keep trying to tell them that if God exists, he will not punish them for a disease he gave them. I've had at least one member PM me with questions and advice requests.

I don't know much about Catholicism, but I definitely wouldn't put it passed any religious person with OCD to list that as a reason their faith was shaken. OCD attacks those things we care most about (relationships, family, and so on). If someone is really religious (as I was), an obsessive attack on one's faith can be absolutely crippling.

Thank you for your input. I hope your husband's doing well.

I think I should leave my irony off the intro boards.  My bad.  I apologize hollyda, no offense intended.  I'm actually nice, I promise.

Oh, don't sweat it. I wasn't upset at all. Internet tone can be hard to hear. We've all been there, done that, and likely have a stack of t-shirts.  

hayy!!

Quote from: "JoeBobSmith"hayy!!

so are you still OCD?

Yes. There's no medical cure for OCD -- rather, the cure is in how you manage it. I have good days and bad days, but with my coping mechanisms, it's a lot easier.

Quote from: "hollyda"

Quote from: "JoeBobSmith"hayy!!

so are you still OCD?

Yes. There's no medical cure for OCD -- rather, the cure is in how you manage it. I have good days and bad days, but with my coping mechanisms, it's a lot easier.

As Good as it Gets is one of my absolutly favourite films. If you have seen it what do you think about its portrayal of OCD?

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "hollyda"

Quote from: "JoeBobSmith"hayy!!

so are you still OCD?

Yes. There's no medical cure for OCD -- rather, the cure is in how you manage it. I have good days and bad days, but with my coping mechanisms, it's a lot easier.

As Good as it Gets is one of my absolutly favourite films. If you have seen it what do you think about its portrayal of OCD?

Most portrayals of OCD bother me because the obsessions are either misrepresented or ignored for the complexity of compulsion rituals. In the case of As Good As It Gets, there was more of the obsessions (though understated) and a large amount of the compulsions (checking, stepping over cracks, counting the light switches, etc). Bearing that in mind, for someone with checking, counting, contamination fears, I thought it was fair. It was a lot better than some of the other portrayals I've seen.

I suffer from Pure O. I used to have physical compulsions, but I haven't had those in fifteen years now. Pure O is obsessional OCD wherein the compulsions are limited to asking for reassurance, guilt trips, and confessing things the sufferer perceives to be a wrong committed on their part; ie, not things you typically see a person doing over and over. What I'd really like to see is a portrayal of OCD wherein the obsessions themselves are addressed, because without the obsession you can't have a compulsion. You have to first have that terrifying "Unless I do X,Y will happen" fears. Mostly what I see is people washing hands, checking, counting, and while that's fine I also think it makes part of the disorder too stereotypical to the point where someone who likes to keep a clean work station feels she's OCD. The "O" is what makes the "C" possible, and it's more than just being picky or anal. It's something that gives you the sensation you're falling from an airplane without a parachute, but the ground never comes. You just keep falling.

My biggest pet peeve is when people with OCD are portrayed as completely being out of touch with reality. The fact is most people with OCD are completely aware their obsessive fears don't make sense. In fact, knowing their fears aren't based in reality is what causes most of the anxiety.

Interesting, thank you for the response. I won't ask more here but when you get your 50 I'd really like to hear more on the main forum.

QuoteTo exacerbate the issue, I was convinced I was going to Hell because of my thoughts, and would pray over and over again for forgiveness, just knowing if I were struck dead God would want nothing to do with me.

I also suffer from OCD, and experienced this identical issue. Like, to the letter. As someone who knows what it's like to be a child terrorized by the concept of a fiery afterlife, I'm sorry that you had to deal with this.

Quote from: "dgmort19"

QuoteTo exacerbate the issue, I was convinced I was going to Hell because of my thoughts, and would pray over and over again for forgiveness, just knowing if I were struck dead God would want nothing to do with me.

I also suffer from OCD, and experienced this identical issue. Like, to the letter. As someone who knows what it's like to be a child terrorized by the concept of a fiery afterlife, I'm sorry that you had to deal with this.

Thank you, and to you as well. It's a terrible sensation. I hope you're doing well with life and OCD management.