Happy Atheist Forum

I guess I was due.  Such is my life, and it's nutty.  So, pinkey swear, this happened to me this morning and I figured you guys here would appreciate it.

All I wanted was to get my very pretty Citizen watch I'd received for my birthday fitted, so I took it to the local Kohls and made my way to the jewelry department.  There's already one guy getting his done, so I patiently wait and take a call from my mom.  I tell her about how my older sister had a horrible, nasty date the night before and I had to go pick her up, etc. etc. and then I say goodbye and hangup.  Here's where the good stuff starts.

The man in front of me turns around and says, "Hi, I couldn't help but overhear [to note, I wasn't shouting and standing close to him  :crazy:

You have my sympathies, with a small side order of schadenfreude (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F2438%2Fheheoc.gif&hash=50cf1131f6316b9f48965cce1bfe1877dc8f90e7)

As you say, I have no idea why these people do this sort of thing, I would have been far more direct in my comments, but then I'll probably get thumped one day!

I always like to engage in conversation. I throw verses out of his own bible (I still read, you can't argue with an algebra professor if you don't know basic math) making him look and feel incompetent. However, they sometimes get flustered and shut down. Saying "his ways" are higher than our train of thought. I scoff at the cop out. Horrible debaters.

Is that really harassment?

I would have told him to naff off earlier, but then it's probably different over here.

Questions...throw out the difficult questions...it makes them very uncomfortable. Maybe they'd think you were the devil and leave you alone.

Here's something to try next time.

Oh great, another drunk Christian. Just my luck. What's that, you're not drunk? Really? So, apparently you enjoy creeping out complete strangers, is that it? (That should set the tone so you can just wing it from there.)

Quote from: "Thinkbigger"Here's something to try next time.

Oh great, another drunk Christian. Just my luck. What's that, you're not drunk? Really? So, apparently you enjoy creeping out complete strangers, is that it? (That should set the tone so you can just wing it from there.)

:D

I understand why Christians are so pushy.  I spent a couple years as a member of an evangelical denomination.  The preacher tells them it's their job to spread the word and plant the seed.  Even if they aren't successful, a message of salvation being planted into the head of a non-believer may be watered by the holy spirit and grow into a big tree of faith.  God wants souls, but apparently only under certain very specific circumstances of faith in Jesus/Allah or others, depending on the religion.  It's the job of the believers to help plant and nurture the crop for God to harvest.  They feel it's their duty, otherwise they aren't being good theists.

I do feel it's funny that a stranger will bother me more about it than my own wife, who is Christian.  Does it mean she doesn't care about my soul?  No.  She understands it's my choice whether I go to heaven or hell, and she's fine with me making that choice.  She just loves the man I am here, and isn't willing to allow God to get in the way of a great marriage with a really good husband, which is apparently hard to find.

Quote from: "fester30"I do feel it's funny that a stranger will bother me more about it than my own wife, who is Christian.  Does it mean she doesn't care about my soul?  No.  She understands it's my choice whether I go to heaven or hell, and she's fine with me making that choice.  She just loves the man I am here, and isn't willing to allow God to get in the way of a great marriage with a really good husband, which is apparently hard to find.

That's exactly where I'm at with my wife, friends and family. They like me just as I am and they don't let that little (soul saving thing) get in the way. I am sensitive to their sensibilities on certain things so I will do some accommodating from time to time but it's no big deal.

That's not too bad, but still awkward. A similar thing to thing happened to me at my grandmother's funeral. My aunt took it upon herself to get me saved right after my grandmother was buried. I haven't "come out" to them about being an atheist, but she was pushing hard that I couldn't be a good person until I had accepted the lord jesus christ as my personal savior. Just inappropriate behavior, to be expected by fundies.

Quote from: "Ulver"That's not too bad, but still awkward. A similar thing to thing happened to me at my grandmother's funeral. My aunt took it upon herself to get me saved right after my grandmother was buried. I haven't "come out" to them about being an atheist, but she was pushing hard that I couldn't be a good person until I had accepted the lord jesus christ as my personal savior. Just inappropriate behavior, to be expected by fundies.

By and large these kind of fundies are few and far between. They are the exception and not the rule. Most Christians I know are good hearted people who are socially graceful and wouldn't hurt a fly. It's too bad they have to be judged by the actions of a few weirdos out on the fringes.

Quote from: "Thinkbigger"By and large these kind of fundies are few and far between. They are the exception and not the rule. Most Christians I know are good hearted people who are socially graceful and wouldn't hurt a fly. It's too bad they have to be judged by the actions of a few weirdos out on the fringes.

I would certainly hope so, for society's sake.  

Luckily, I don't see a lot of educated people matching "good hearted Christians" with the acts of fundamentalists who would like to fire-bomb said flies if they don't accept Flysus Christ as their personal savior. But certainly, skeptics have merit to question how these same people have aligned themselves with a seemingly (based on texts they cherish) malevolent (to use the simplest word possible) god.

Quote from: "Ulver"

Quote from: "Thinkbigger"By and large these kind of fundies are few and far between. They are the exception and not the rule. Most Christians I know are good hearted people who are socially graceful and wouldn't hurt a fly. It's too bad they have to be judged by the actions of a few weirdos out on the fringes.

I would certainly hope so, for society's sake.  

Luckily, I don't see a lot of educated people matching "good hearted Christians" with the acts of fundamentalists who would like to fire-bomb said flies if they don't accept Flysus Christ as their personal savior. But certainly, skeptics have merit to question how these same people have aligned themselves with a seemingly (based on texts they cherish) malevolent (to use the simplest word possible) god.

Umm.. fire-bombing? Are you sure you're not thinking of Muslims? Also, why would an educated person match good hearted Christians with raving fundamentalist Christians anyway?

Certainly, skeptics do have merit to question everything. However, what you perceive as malevolent, another may see as beneficent. Your personal judgments are to guide you in your life but not so much the lives of others. Indeed, this is the main beef against Christians is it not? When Christians seek to interfere with our lives we find that repugnant. So why in the world would this same behavior be appropriate for us in regards to them? Beware the hypocrites critique.

We must all avoid stereotyping and keyhole observations else the nature of reality shall surely escape us.

I had a similar situation in AZ recently. I was at one of the few outdoor malls in AZ walking with my pug and I take a seat on a bench. I didn’t notice right away but there was this group of three guys two of which were fairly young I would say early twenties. The other guy was easily flirting with 50 and he decided that he wanted to chat me up. I had said nothing, done nothing or in any way advertised that I was interested in chatting. Nonetheless this guy approaches me. It’s not until this point that I notice that he is rocking a “youth for Prayer” T-shirt. This is when I know that this fella is going to be sorely disappointed that he chose me. He starts off of course by doing the friendly bit, you know where are you from, cute dog the whole 9 and then he gets into it with me asking me about true love and telling me that if I believe in love then I have to believe in Christ because Christ is the embodiment of true love.  He gets to the point of god and to make this story short I explained to him my ideas of the possibility of a multi dimensional universe, the possibility of multiple realities coexisting simultaneously and asked him if his version of god was the god of all realities, of all consciousness in every dimension, all the time. To which he could have said ”of course” which is what I was expecting. But in a surprise moment of honesty. A moment that I could tell from his face was difficult for him he simply said “I  don’t know”.
For the most part these predatory proselytizers have their arguments pretty locked down. But it was nice in this one instance to see this man consider something completely outside his realm of belief.
He went on for a bit more, refocusing on love and the teachings of Christ, before my girlfriend emerged from Charlotte Russe or Bed Bath and Beyond or whatever to rescue me. Even still I am amazed at the level of arrogance and audacity it takes to engage a complete stranger and try to bully them into believing what you believe in.

I remember my senior class party after graduating high school â€" the girl who hosted it was obligated to invite her weird home-schooled cousin who was the same age as us. (I'm not suggesting that all home-schooled kids are weird, I've met some really amazing people who were home-schooled, but this one had a severe lack of social skills.)

I had just grabbed a drink and sat down on a bench and he swooped down like a buzzard that smelled fresh roadkill. It was the usual 20 questions spiel (do they memorize a script or something?) and it just gets more and more awkward because they always have that look in their eyes that you just know question number 21 is going to be "Have you found Jesus?"

To my own detriment, I have always been too polite to cut somebody off mid-conversation. Plus the girl who hosted the party was a good friend of mine (who did apologize later for the guy's behavior), and I didn't want to offend her by getting into it with her cousin, so I just told him it wasn't the time or place to talk about it and walked off. It just kind of bums me out that when I think about my high school graduation party it is always connected with this awkward encounter, which was my first of many evangelical assaults.

I'm still to this day too polite to cut people off mid-stream so I just let them ramble on and then tell them I have to get going.

:brick:

Quote from: "Thinkbigger"Umm.. fire-bombing? Are you sure you're not thinking of Muslims?

What, Christians can't fire bomb flies? ;)

Quote from: "Thinkbigger"Also, why would an educated person match good hearted Christians with raving fundamentalist Christians anyway? Certainly, skeptics do have merit to question everything. However, what you perceive as malevolent, another may see as beneficent. Your personal judgments are to guide you in your life but not so much the lives of others. Indeed, this is the main beef against Christians is it not? When Christians seek to interfere with our lives we find that repugnant. So why in the world would this same behavior be appropriate for us in regards to them? Beware the hypocrites critique. We must all avoid stereotyping and keyhole observations else the nature of reality shall surely escape us.

First: I'm a n00b so I hesitate to debate at all, just getting my feet wet here and feeling out the rules. My original post didn't make generalizations about all Christians, just my aunt and fundies. It was an innocent, on-topic reply.

Second: I am up for being lectured about hypocrisy only when I'm being a hypocrite (which I am sometimes, go figure). To insinuate, for instance, commanding the stoning to death of gay people can somehow logically be perceived as beneficent is scary.

Quote from: "Tank":brick: Paragraphs! dammit! Paragraphs! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph)  

Is this an indictment on the incorrect use or lack thereof of paragraphs. Or the fact that the previous 2 posts were long. Just wondering what caused the headbanging...I imagine it was not Judas Priest

Just the two long posts

Sorry ha.. Paragraph'd mine for virtually painless visual readability. The painfulness of reading the message contained remains unchanged.

Quote from: "Ulver"

Quote from: "Thinkbigger"Umm.. fire-bombing? Are you sure you're not thinking of Muslims?

What, Christians can't fire bomb flies? ;)

One keyhole observation is as good as another, I guess.

Quote from: "Ulver"

Quote from: "Thinkbigger"Also, why would an educated person match good hearted Christians with raving fundamentalist Christians anyway? Certainly, skeptics do have merit to question everything. However, what you perceive as malevolent, another may see as beneficent. Your personal judgments are to guide you in your life but not so much the lives of others. Indeed, this is the main beef against Christians is it not? When Christians seek to interfere with our lives we find that repugnant. So why in the world would this same behavior be appropriate for us in regards to them? Beware the hypocrites critique. We must all avoid stereotyping and keyhole observations else the nature of reality shall surely escape us.

I am up for being lectured about hypocrisy only when I'm being a hypocrite (which I am sometimes, go figure). To insinuate, for instance, commanding the stoning to death of gay people can somehow logically be perceived as beneficent is scary.

I assure you that I insinuated no such thing. I hope it's not asking too much for you to respond to my actual words and not some inventive abstraction of my words. Clever in a tricky sort of way but not particularly helpful in the advancement of this discussion. Plus, I don't think you are scared at all.

My main point, which you breezed right past, was that all persons, including the Christians, should obey the golden rule and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is a fundamental in moral behavior and not doing so might be construed as being a little... well, hypocritical.

Ironically, the actual and real onus to obey the golden rule should be, first and foremost, upon the Christians themselves as the adage is a direct extraction from the sermon on the mount. It has some other roots too but none as well know as the sermon. Therefore the next time a Christian accosts you at the mall you can lay that on them. You might say; "I'm not going to speak to you because I want you to do unto me as I'm doing unto you, and that is, ignoring you, thank you and good-day."  

In Orlando (Florida) they're real heavy on the pamphlets and flyers.

.......I know this isn't nice or polite and I'm not sorry or remorseful for what my behavior has become.

When they reach to hand me a sheet I reach for the stack and drop them all.

I used to try to talk to these people but they don't understand words just as I don't understand bothering a stranger who is texting/talking/has headphones on.

Quote from: "TheWilliam"In Orlando (Florida) they're real heavy on the pamphlets and flyers.

.......I know this isn't nice or polite and I'm not sorry or remorseful for what my behavior has become.

QuoteOne of the few mentioned human members of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch. Visit is a modern Omnian and therefore an evangelical preacher. His full name is Visit-The-Infidel-With-Explanatory-Pamphlets, which is a mouthful in Ankh-Morporkian (it is reputedly much simpler to say in the Omnian language), and describes an action that annoys his neighbors and colleagues. This approach is, however, much more peaceful than the traditional `visit-the-infidel-with-swords-and thunderbolts' approach.

http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Visit-the-I ... -Pamphlets (http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Visit-the-Infidel-with-Explanatory-Pamphlets)

At least the pamphlets are better than swords and thunderbolts.
I suspect the thunderbolts are really rocks and stones pretending to be thunderbolts.

I thought zues and his boys had a copywrite on thunder and lightening.

Quote from: "TheWilliam"I thought zues and his boys had a copywrite on thunder and lightening.

I think he's got rights on inseminating woman when their husbands aren't about as well.  That christian god better get himself a lawyer.  That's probably why they do that holy trinity thing, to avoid litigation.  Na na na, it wasn't me did it, I'm the holy ghost, you're looking for the father.

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 25, 2011, 11:01:16 AM
That christian god better get himself a lawyer.  That's probably why they do that holy trinity thing, to avoid litigation.  Na na na, it wasn't me did it, I'm the holy ghost, you're looking for the father.

hahahaha! That's a good one... I was laughing about it so hard that my aunt asked me what was so funny, (note that she is what would be considered a 'strict' Christian.) When I told her she said that those were the words of the devil to which I responded, "Then I'm following them straight to hell."