Happy Atheist Forum

I'm curious what you all's thoughts are on the 8 to 1 Supreme Court ruling in favor of Westboro Baptist's right to protest near military funerals.  The judges opinions I read overall were highly critical of what the church members were actually saying, but the strong support for protection of free speech is made apparent by their decision.

Not surprising, really. Freedom of speech is very much a double edged blade. It is kind of unfortunate how they've made such a major scene in the media. They seem to be the real life version of internet trolls, and feed on the attention.

They're probably not going to go away until they stop getting fed.

Oh my, I just did a search on these guys, they really are doing themselves no favours.
Such a shame that the families and loved ones of the decest have to put up with the presence of these guys.

http://journalstar.com/news/state-and-regional/article_985d95f2-7dde-52d4-8859-cfc3e7fbe84c.html

QuoteMembers of the church, based in Topeka, Kan., travel the country protesting at military funerals because they believe U.S. troop deaths are punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality. They carry signs that say "Thank God for dead soldiers" and include gay epithets, among other things.

Surely one day some funeral goers are going to physically attack these protesters. I would certainly be quite keen to rip those signs off them.

Quote from: "Stevil"I would certainly be quite keen to rip those signs off them.

While I would want to do the same.  Doing so is to disregard the right you have to protest that which you disagree with.
Freedom of speech really is a double-edged sword.

I'm only surprised it wasn't unanimous. The term double-edged sword has been used already a couple of times in this thread, and it's what I was thinking as well. We protect the right to free speech of all, not just some, in the U.S. That includes neo-Nazis, Westboro Baptist, and Atheists.
Heart wrenching for the families of the deceased when this happens though, and it's why I support the counter protests that effectively block the WBC people from being seen or heard at funerals.

I completely understand why family members of the fallen soldiers are upset about WBC and how seeing those hurtful words is the last thing a grieving spouse, parent or sibling needs to see.  But, unfortunately, government can't be used to shield us from the thoughts of others no matter how wrong or hurtful.  As long as WBC maintains their distance so that they aren't disturbing the actual event (I believe quite a few states have drawn a 1000 ft buffer around the funerals in which protests are not allowed; similar to how presidential visits have protest zones), there simply isn't a way to say they have legally done something wrong.  Morally...if there were a hell they'd be hard pressed to do enough good to keep out of it at this point.

I am all for freedom of speech, just against using someone's personal funeral becoming the focus of a political/religious agenda especially if it is hurtful.
There is a time and a place for things. A funeral demands respect and dignity at least for those in grief.

Quote from: "Stevil"I am all for freedom of speech, just against using someone's personal funeral becoming the focus of a political/religious agenda especially if it is hurtful.
There is a time and a place for things. A funeral demands respect and dignity at least for those in grief.

This statement(s) is interesting to me.  Just a point I will have to chalk up for now though.

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"

Quote from: "Stevil"I am all for freedom of speech, just against using someone's personal funeral becoming the focus of a political/religious agenda especially if it is hurtful.
There is a time and a place for things. A funeral demands respect and dignity at least for those in grief.

This statement(s) is interesting to me.  Just a point I will have to chalk up for now though.

Yeah... erm... I'm with AnimatedDirt on this one.

This is a completely ridiculous ruling. According to our law now the workplace is more sacred than a funeral. That's right, no hate speech allow in the workplace but a widowed mother trying to bury her dead son in peace.... forget about it.

The UK had the right idea when they banned these perverted creeps. Freedom of speech has always had limits. I don't know of anyone who believes in unbridled freedom of speech. Moreover I think the Phelps family should be allowed to say whatever they want just not wherever they want to. That goes for everyone, myself included. I feel no right to mouth off at another's funeral.

What the Westbro Baptist Church is doing cannot be honestly categorized as protesting. What they're doing is trying to goad people into attacking them, and when that happens, they sue for damages. It's a scam. I believe whole-heartedly in the right to free speech, but what they're doing isn't about freedom of expression, it's about extortion. Extortion is not a Constitutionally protected right.

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"

Quote from: "Stevil"I am all for freedom of speech, just against using someone's personal funeral becoming the focus of a political/religious agenda especially if it is hurtful.
There is a time and a place for things. A funeral demands respect and dignity at least for those in grief.

This statement(s) is interesting to me.  Just a point I will have to chalk up for now though.

Yeah... erm... I'm with AnimatedDirt on this one.

I think I am missing something here, who accuses me of saying something interesting? I only talk waffle and dribble. Please explain! It seems that I have missed the point, yet again. Oh Dear  

Quote from: "Will"What the Westbro Baptist Church is doing cannot be honestly categorized as protesting. What they're doing is trying to goad people into attacking them, and when that happens, they sue for damages. It's a scam. I believe whole-heartedly in the right to free speech, but what they're doing isn't about freedom of expression, it's about extortion. Extortion is not a Constitutionally protected right.

Couldn't agree more. I was just reading this article Does the Westboro Baptist Church make money by suing people? (http://kanewj.com/wbc/) earlier today.

I wonder how many people remember when Buzz Aldrin was let off for punching a We-Faked-The-First-Trip-To-The-Moon conspiracy theorist guy for calling Buzz a fraud and a liar. Either we are making a huge exception for an "American Hero" like Aldrin, or shouting "Hooray! your child is dead!" is less provocative than "you lie!"

As much as I appreciate freedom of speech and how important it is, I think for honor's sake a few people should toss some molotov cocktails into that god forsaken hell hole known as Westboro Baptist Church.

Those people are mentally sick.

Quote from: "Sophus"This is a completely ridiculous ruling. According to our law now the workplace is more sacred than a funeral. That's right, no hate speech allow in the workplace but a widowed mother trying to bury her dead son in peace.... forget about it.

The UK had the right idea when they banned these perverted creeps. Freedom of speech has always had limits. I don't know of anyone who believes in unbridled freedom of speech. Moreover I think the Phelps family should be allowed to say whatever they want just not wherever they want to. That goes for everyone, myself included. I feel no right to mouth off at another's funeral.

This. 100% couldn't agree more.

And for anyone who doesn't know much about these horrible people, google "the most hated family in America", it's a documentary by Louis Theroux. Might even be on YouTube.

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"

Quote from: "Sophus"This is a completely ridiculous ruling. According to our law now the workplace is more sacred than a funeral. That's right, no hate speech allow in the workplace but a widowed mother trying to bury her dead son in peace.... forget about it.

The UK had the right idea when they banned these perverted creeps. Freedom of speech has always had limits. I don't know of anyone who believes in unbridled freedom of speech. Moreover I think the Phelps family should be allowed to say whatever they want just not wherever they want to. That goes for everyone, myself included. I feel no right to mouth off at another's funeral.

This. 100% couldn't agree more.

And for anyone who doesn't know much about these horrible people, google "the most hated family in America", it's a documentary by Louis Theroux. Might even be on YouTube.

[youtube:3kvgemu0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrz5k0jWdU[/youtube:3kvgemu0]

She thinks they're worshipping the dead by mourning over their deceased soldier.

This woman shouldn't have been allowed to reproduce.

Quote from: "Sophus"This is a completely ridiculous ruling. According to our law now the workplace is more sacred than a funeral. That's right, no hate speech allow in the workplace but a widowed mother trying to bury her dead son in peace.... forget about it.

Let me preface by saying I am in NO WAY condoning their actions on a "is it a tasteful action" level, but I think the workplace laws which you mention don't ban hate speech in the workplace, the ban employers from overlooking or condoning hate speech in the workplace. Employer puts in effect a rule and enforces it, problem solved. It doesn't prevent anyone from saying those things, it just prevents them from going unpunished.

In the same way, if I ever see them at a funeral of a loved one of mine, their freedom of speech won't stop my freedom of unleashing 370 pounds of pissed off atheist on that ass. Plus 300 from older bro, 200 from younger bro (if he's dripping wet) and 275ish from pops, and they are in for one bad fucking day.

After watching the documentary, I feel sorry for these people, especially the children.
It is such a shame that Grandpa has such an influence over his family.
It highlights to an extreme how easily people are manipulated and how people can think in such strange ways.

It is sad that their beliefs have victims e.g. those attending the funerals. But really this family is not to be taken seriously. There are many, many people out their with odd beliefs, some are more vocal than others. These guys just need to be ignored, hopefully the authroities keep them at distance from the funerals.

They are certainly not worth going to prison for in retaliation or being sued for retaliating. They seem to be in a misery of their making already. Just ignore them. I hope they don't get paid for these documentaries or apperances on Talk show or Magazine articles. Noone should fund them.

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"

Quote from: "Sophus"This is a completely ridiculous ruling. According to our law now the workplace is more sacred than a funeral. That's right, no hate speech allow in the workplace but a widowed mother trying to bury her dead son in peace.... forget about it.

The UK had the right idea when they banned these perverted creeps. Freedom of speech has always had limits. I don't know of anyone who believes in unbridled freedom of speech. Moreover I think the Phelps family should be allowed to say whatever they want just not wherever they want to. That goes for everyone, myself included. I feel no right to mouth off at another's funeral.

This. 100% couldn't agree more.

And for anyone who doesn't know much about these horrible people, google "the most hated family in America", it's a documentary by Louis Theroux. Might even be on YouTube.

It's on YouTube in 8 parts. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... erica&aq=1 (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+most+hated+family+in+america&aq=1)

I won't be surprised the day news say that members of the Westboro Baptist Church pissed off a squad of marines and got run out of town the hard way(that would be fun to watch ).
If they keep poking people, at some point they are gonna get poked back.

Quote from: "Guardian85"I won't be surprised the day news say that members of the Westboro Baptist Church pissed off a squad of marines and got run out of town the hard way(that would be fun to watch ).
If they keep poking people, at some point they are gonna get poked back.

This seems to be their goal.

If they get a respresentative of the government to violate them then they get to sue the government. Basically they would get handed their own money printing machine. Tax free of course due to their church status.

For me watching the documentary it seemed more like a mockumentary. Too silly to be true, this family is a joke and a bad one at that. Like a linguring fart they are best simply avoided.

This family is a threat to no-one other than themselves. Any retaliation would give them power. They seem so focussed on this path to wealth that they are obviously willing to sacrifice some of their children. And let's not be naiive, people can be and often are dangerous when provoked, Westbro's address is posted on Wiki, I am surprised that something unfortunate has not happened already.

My question...are none of the Westboro parishoners burying any sons/daughters?  Or are the exempt from the barrage of protest?  While I respect free speech, there is a reason you can't yell FIRE in a theater...people get injured.  Should the added psychological wounds inflicted on these families not be regarded as injury???  Aren't the believers all about values and what's sacred?  What could be more sacred then burying your family members?
I really found it hard to believe...that the lone justice that I agreed with was Alito...I am still searching the sky for flying pigs.

Quote from: "unsavioury"My question...are none of the Westboro parishoners burying any sons/daughters?

Nope...the only ones old enough to die a 'natural' death is Fred Phelps or his wife.  If any of the rest die the family will disown them because they believe premature death is caused by living a life of sin and that anyone who dies prematurely; despite how they appeared to act in life is in hell.


That said....I'm all for organizing a Phelps funeral protest when one of them dies.  But I don't think they'll be having a funeral because I think they consider those a practice of worshiping the dead.

Someday one of their leaders will pay a man for sex.  Then they'll be too busy with internal strife to protest homosexuality at funerals of soldiers.

Well, it seems that the kiddies aren't gonna be fornicating, Althought it was OK for mommy and daddy and even grumpy grampy. The kiddies will stay celibate, unless of course God takes a shinning to them and has his way whilst they sleep.

But odds are pretty good that this will be the last generation of that horrid family.

Quote from: "Stevil"But odds are pretty good that this will be the last generation of that horrid family.

Well, we can hope. But if we look at the track record of prominent conservatives who pledge celibacy... well, I'll give you good odds on that one!  

Quote from: "Guardian85"

Quote from: "Stevil"But odds are pretty good that this will be the last generation of that horrid family.

Well, we can hope. But if we look at the track record of prominent conservatives who pledge celibacy... well, I'll give you good odds on that one!  

Those that take a shining for love and human companionship outside the family are disowned. So they may get to know love but the family will no longer direct their own affection (namely, God's hate).

Theroux did a follow up show just recently.

 [youtube:3ldg5wrv]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt8v_x7fWIA[/youtube:3ldg5wrv]

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Xcuc6PMDI&feature=related)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBry1dY8HgU&feature=related)
Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GHZb-4a48A&feature=related)
Part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wjEN7VZx_4&NR=1)
Part 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWb2eCxyNKE&NR=1)
Part 7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7t1zOU1sCM&NR=1)