Happy Atheist Forum

I am conducting a survey for an essay I am writing about the existence or non existence of personal/ situational ethics in the lives of Atheists. Please answer the following question with only yes or no,  please.
1. As an atheist, do you find an inner resource of strength and discernment? Yes or no.
2. Where does this inner strength come from? Is it a personal/rational resource? Yes or no.
3. Is it something unexplainable? Yes or no.
4. From birth to death, do ALL people have a potential chance of realizing this inner resource of strength? Yes or no.


Thank you for taking my survey.

yes
yes
no
no

1. yes
2. Strength comes from experience and rationality.
3. no
4. no

yes
yes
no
no

#1--YES.

#2-- YES, and ditto to Momma Squid's answer.  My own inner convictions, and the peace of mind that following them gives me, give me strength.

 My 'internal compass' is very powerful and based largely on things i have been through, learned from interacting and watching others go through their lives, read, etc = experience.  Compassion, logic, understanding, reason and kindness form the basis of my own personal set of ethics.
 
#3--NO

#4---sadly, no....

EDIT--
ah, you've changed the questIon AFTER we answered!!   Looking over the relatives and coworkers i have, even some of my social gang, i think i will still stick with "no" for question #4.....POTENTIAL chance....hmm.  maybe at birth!!!  but are we talking about grown ups who are already messed up???  ha ha!!

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. No.
4. Yes.

Okay, I'm game:

Short version, as requested,

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
4. Yes

Long version (Qualifications):
1. Yes - I consider my "inner strength and discernment" to be my consciousness.
2. Yes - Consciousness is a brain function, so this comes from my brain.
3. No - See #2.
4. Yes, but with qualification.  This is far and away the most difficult question on the survey!  I answered "yes" because I read "all people" to mean "all people with nominal brain function" because I felt that was most inline with the intent of the survey (maybe I'm incorrect).  If somebody suffers from serious mental health disease or disorder, then presumably they might not possess this ability while they are sick, although if they could be "cured" then they surely would.  I would consider some sort of "disassociative" disorder to be the kind that would affect them in this regard.  It would have to be something truly insane.  Presumably I could only answer "yes" to the first two questions because I'm not insane, so I had to assume sanity was presumed by the questions.

Good luck with your survey - perhaps you will come back and share the results with us?

Quote from: "zeromiles"I am conducting a survey for an essay I am writing about the existence or non existence of personal/ situational ethics in the lives of Atheists. Please answer the following question with only yes or no,  please.
1. As an atheist, do you find an inner resource of strength and discernment? Yes or no.
2. Where does this inner strength come from? Is it a personal/rational resource? Yes or no.
3. Is it something you cannot explain? Yes or no.
4. Do all people have the ability to find an "inner resource of strength?" Yes or no.

Thank you for taking my survey.

Do we get to see your essay after completion?  If this is for an essay, why do you only want yes/no answers?  What are the result of your findings and how many people did you poll?  Did you also ask the same of theists?

Anyway, I'm going to answer your questions.  Please answer mine as well.

1. Yes
2. Personal and rational/Ratinal respectively (this really wasn't a yes no question)
3.  no
4. Yes (as long as they are mentally healthy)

I think I'll wait this one out. I would like an introduction first. I would like to see you answer all of laetusatheos's questions as well.

wow, all you people who can honestly answer "yes" to #4, you have relatives and coworkers that are way  COOLER , more evolved people than mine!!!   :lol:

i personally know people, some for decades, that certainly seem completely incapable of finding inner strength to even deal with any drama at all...  very high maintenance.....yet they are sane, but so out of touch with their own psyche !!!  so weak, so helpless -- some even develop hypochondria as a last resort coping method... :roll:

okay, sorry, we're losing the thread...back to the 4  questions...

EDIT: AS the wording on #4 is now asking about potential, i'd say maybe at birth, before so many people learn twisted habitual ineffective coping mechanisms that prevent them from ever realizing their full potential..... sane, -yes they are, but yet unable to tap into their inner selves in any meaningful way.  But maybe FROM BIRTH...... there could be potential.  But there ARE an inordinate number of "NO to #4" type people running around, ha ha!!

HI everyone. Thanks for your input. From some of your comments, I can see that my survey could be a little more concise. Anyways, it is what it is and the responses are very helpful for my work. Also, I would like to wait a bit longer before I tell you anymore about the survery, because I don't want to influence the results; however, I can understand some of your distrust. So I will let you know where I stand. I am not a Christian. I am not an Atheist either. I am a Miles. (that's my name) And through whatever circumstances unfold in life, I am interested in being what I am. Who I am is a whole can of worms that would be really fun to open after the survey is complete. Until then, I want to remain as neutral as possible so as not to screw anything up, and once it is all done, I would love to share my findings and my essay with all of you.
-miles :roll:

ALso,
I really hate to do this, but I wish I could re-word question #4. It is misleading. So I am going to edit it to the following.

From birth to death, do ALL people have a potential chance of realizing this inner resource of strength? Yes or no.

Sorry for any invonvenience. For those who may have already answered #4, feel free to reconsider.

Thanks for the clarification - I'll let my answer to #4 stand.

Quote from: "zeromiles"I am not a Christian. I am not an Atheist either. I am a Miles.

Okay - and I am most definitely a "Steve".

What I'm getting at, just a comment, is that being an atheist says more about what you are not than about what you are.  I believe almost all of the atheists on this board would say that being an atheist means they do not have a belief in god.  That's all.  This is not the same as asserting that we "know" god is false - we just don't believe in god.  Opposite of theist (one who believes) would be atheist (one who does not believe).

Just wanted to clarify this as it is a somewhat misunderstood topic among non-atheists (and since you are writing something on the subject).  Forgive me if you already knew this, I'm certainly not trying to "lecture" - just want to make sure I'm being represented fairly.

Anyway - happy essaying/surveying!

tigerlily - I certainly agree there are a lot of people out there that would seem to qualify for "No to #4".  But - having the ability to do something doesn't mean you are going to be successful.  My point is that I don't think anybody truly has to rely on something outside of themselves to know themselves.  I think when they make ethical or moral decisions they are relying on internal guidance, even if they do not realize it.  This would explain why religious morals have changed during the ages, even though the scriptures themselves have not (seems to imply that they aren't really relying on the scriptures - its more as though they are a product of what Richard Dawkins calls the "Changing Moral Zeitgeist").

Eh, put me in for another 2 cents.....
 :wink:

Quote from: "zeromiles"HI everyone. Thanks for your input. From some of your comments, I can see that my survey could be a little more concise. Anyways, it is what it is and the responses are very helpful for my work. Also, I would like to wait a bit longer before I tell you anymore about the survery, because I don't want to influence the results; however, I can understand some of your distrust. So I will let you know where I stand. I am not a Christian. I am not an Atheist either. I am a Miles. (that's my name) And through whatever circumstances unfold in life, I am interested in being what I am. Who I am is a whole can of worms that would be really fun to open after the survey is complete. Until then, I want to remain as neutral as possible so as not to screw anything up, and once it is all done, I would love to share my findings and my essay with all of you.
-miles :roll:

Miles, I don't find that you are not being concise, but you are being vague. And you haven't yet answered the questions posed to you that would clarify anything. I'm not asking you to skew the results of your survey. I'm asking you for clarification on the purpose behind it. As well as who it is being conducted for. Is this something assigned to you, as in a class project, or some such thing? Will the results be published? What is the sample size going to be? Who will interpret the findings?

In other words, is this a meaningful, scientifically conducted survey, or something less stringent? My guess (since you are in here asking the survey questions), is that it is not the former. Knowing these things has a bearing on whether or not I answer the survey, but not on my answers themselves, so it does not skew the potential results.

Hi McQ,
I plan to contrast the answers I find on this website, with the answers I find on a Christian Website. http://foru.ms (http://foru.ms) Hopefully the essay will be published, perhaps in a literary quarterly or some other periodical that publishes thought inspiring articles. In otherwords, I have no publisher yet. The sample size will be as many responses as I can gather. So far I only have 8 I think, and I'd like it to be much bigger than that. But there will be the same amount of christians as there will be Atheists. I will interpret the findings, since I am the writer. By all means, don't answer the questions if you don't want to.
-all the best.
miles

zero...for more christians (and a good mix of denominations) go to www.christianforums.com (http://www.christianforums.com).  Atheists and agnostics also post there if you use the general area (which is open to non-christians).

Honestly, I'm not sure how one's view towards the existance of a god would affect how these questions are answered.  I guess theists would be likely to answer "god" to number 2.

OK, thanks, Miles.

1. As an atheist, do you find an inner resource of strength and discernment?

Yes to strength....see number two.

2. Where does this inner strength come from? Mitochondria.
Is it a personal/rational resource? Yes

3. Is it something unexplainable? No.

4. From birth to death, do ALL people have a potential chance of realizing this inner resource of strength? Yes.

No such thing as "inner strength". It's a philosophical term and is thus simply a matter of perceiving your mind.

since you changed one of the questions, I have to change one of my answers:

4. From birth to death, do ALL people have a potential chance of realizing this inner resource of strength?  YES, They all have the potential of realizing, but not all are actually able to do so in the long run.

Quote from: "Willravel"No such thing as "inner strength". It's a philosophical term and is thus simply a matter of perceiving your mind.

That was one of the things about the question which wasn't so direct.  If it had been more than yes/no answers the above is something I would have touched on in my answer.

Zero...what do you mean by "inner strength" in the context of your questions?  I may have to change my answers.

leatusatheos
Whatever you interpret a resource of inner strength and discernment to be.  It could be that ""a resource of inner strenght is just a philisophical term" and therefore doesn't exist because it is only a mental perception. As willravel says. In which case I guess your answer might be "no." this may or may not mean then that you can explain it. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. (not to be able to explain something. It may actually even be more realistic.) Just because we can explain something doesn't bmean it is true. the Christians can "explain" thunder and lightning. THey can "explain" inner strenght and discernement." What do you think?
-miles

There are no right and wrong answers to these questions. the point is to be honest, becuasse whatever your answers are, you have your own reasons for them, which then leads to yes or no. I understand that these are vast questions, open to much interpretation, but that is the point of the survery. That is the talent of the brain, and what you bring to these questions is the very content in which I am interested. Something I am learning about atheism and atheists is that something can have a completely different meaning from one person to the next. This indicates free thinking. Interestingly, most of the christians are all answering the same as each other. Do you see what I'm getting at here? That is why these questins are open to interpretation. To test for different behaviours according to groups of people. I am not giong to say what I mean by "Inner resource of strength." because I would be telling you what it is.) I'd beinterested to see how willravel answers the next three.
All right yall. Have fun.
peace.
Miles

Food for thought, I answered "yes" to "inner strength and discernment", because I was thinking like the last part of Willravel's statement: "a matter of perceiving your mind".  I think I have this - I can perceive my mind.  Although, it's not always a source of inner strength, sometimes its a source of inner weakness  :wink:

Steve S
With respect to willravel's statement, I say the answer MIGHT be "no" because that may or may not be one's answer. By no means am I implying that the answer IS no; however, one might deduce that they do not know an inner resource of strength because it is only a philisophical term, thus only a mental formation, and something they can't really know for sure. Just a hypothetical resonse though. This COULD be one's answer. If not then fine. I don't want to influence how other's answer this question too much. My interest is what you bring to these questions.
-miles

This is what happens when you ask atheists a question that is not completely finite.  You'll get questions and more questions and more questions rather than answers.   :lol:

This is why we can't organize (or don't WANT to organize) to fight the religious injustices in this country.  While the religious folks can agree on all of the big issues and just agree to disagree so they can rule, the non-believers are busy debating the TINIEST details in some esoteric argument that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Not criticizing... I'm just as guilty as the rest... but it's kind of amusing to be on the sidelines, watching.  

zeromiles - understood, and agreed.  If Willravel (or anyone else, for that matter) decided to answer "no" on this basis I would certainly understand.

Further food for thought (and because I want to keep rlrose328 fully entertained :wink: ), I find the idea of "inner discernment" to be more or less equivalent to moral/ethical judgment, both "conscious" and "subconscious".  With this aspect of the question, I certainly find my own moral/ethical judgments to be internal.  I don't always readily know why I feel something is right or wrong, but I feel it strongly --- I take this as prompting from my subconscious mind.  One thing that is a fascinating aspect of being human is that while we cannot seem to control what our subconscious hits us with, it is never the less available to scrutiny by our conscious mind (especially if we're given to self reflection and thought), which allows us to perform a regulatory function on our own uncommanded thoughts - fascinating!  I think this is a part of what I mean by "perceiving your own mental function".  I regard self questioning to be a critical aspect of maturity in a human being.

Just my thoughts, I'm a solid amateur in psych/neuro stuff - but I find this to be an interesting and engaging topic.

SteveS, thanks for explaining your views.  back on page one....i hadn't noticed this second page !!!     I think after mulling it over, and the way the question has now been rephrased to include POTENTIAL, i guess i will withdraw my NO TO #4 to be a

YES for #4.

SteveS, I guess you ARE correct, even lamos ARE relying on an their own internal guidance.  Even if it is a very poor one, they DO have one.  An internal compass that includes "strength" i don't know.... i don't know.  but you are right   they DO at least possess one, don't they?  , i hadn't thought of it that way.


rlrose, i did chuckle out loud reading your post!!       We DO ask a lot of questions, don't we???

I love when I come across a religious counter-argument saying that atheists can just break laws and hurt others because they have no god to answer to.... um, hello, I have a conscience!  I have a consideration of other people!  I don't need a promise of heaven to have good morals!

On another note, I was on an atheist mailing list a few years ago and a guy there took an unnecessary pot shot at my father, who had just died.  I told him I wanted an apology... and he told me that he doesn't apologize to anyone for anything because that would mean he felt guilt and "guilt is a religious concept" to which he didn't subscribe.  Yes, I was flabbergasted... but I was even more so when several other members of the mailing list AGREED with him.

That, to me, is what the religious folks are talking about.  He said something very hurtful and I felt an apology would be nice... not some sort of flagelation, but a simple "I'm sorry that hurt your feelings."  I was stunned that these atheists felt guilt was something reserved for religion.  I guess you can call it something other than guilt... maybe a conscience?  I dunno... I left that mailing list immediately... it was poisonous after that.

Well rlrose, i totally agree, about atheists can be bad cuz they have no god.  BAH HA HA!  Like religious people are sooooo kind!!  How do they explain all those priests?  

I know all us atheists are different, we should strive to avoid lumping people (like i just did in the line above..) but honestly, the few atheists i know are so kind and moral...

My own moral guide is very intense, ooh, it'll bite me if i don't behave.

I DON'T THINK I AGREE GUILT is a religious concept!!!  I feel guilt for derailing this thread...i don't need no god to cringe when i am bad.  i can do THAT all by myself.

I think when one finds their own moral compass, it may work better than those store-bought ones...but we are probably gonna get spanked now for derailing the thread.  hee hee

Sorry that happened rlrose - I certainly experience guilt and I'm not religious in the least.  For the record, my wife also knows I feel guilt --- I think she exploits it even more effectively than the church would!

I'm exaggerating, my wife is sweet and I love her deeply.  I exploit her guilt, too  :badgrin:

EDITED:
Everyone - please don't change your answers on my account - I just can't help blabbing my fat mouth!  I don't necessarily disagree with the answers that differ from mine - as long as you've got a reason, well, you've got a reason, I don't necessarily disagree with your reason.  Problem with simple yes/no to complex questions - depends on how you read them, how many assumptions you make, what context you employ, blah blah blah.  "Tiniest details", as rose said  :wink:

rlrose...yes, I have met one or two atheists who have said they don't think they should have to apologize to anyone for similar reasons those mailing list people stated.  Unfortunately, being an atheist does not automatically grant a good moral compass. socail skills, nor intelligence.  On the other hand, it seems that most of us do have our heads on straight and our 'hearts' in the right place.

Lae, yes, I agree... i have run into more social-positive atheists in the intervening two years.  But I had to lay off mailing lists and forums for almost that entire duration.  I LOVE to chat about atheist, god, religion, etc., but not when the crowd is doing their best to argue just to argue and disagree just to disagree.  There is so much negative stuff in the world (and my life, with a 7 year old on the premises) that I just can't deal with like-minded people being so nasty.  :-(

Quote from: "SteveS"Sorry that happened rlrose - I certainly experience guilt and I'm not religious in the least.  For the record, my wife also knows I feel guilt --- I think she exploits it even more effectively than the church would!

I've often wondered about how a non-theist marries a theist and makes it work...  I've read a few things about your struggle (??) and it's very interesting to me.  My hubby was raised Catholic and had a Catholic education but it was Jesuit and apparently, they are much more liberal than your average Catholic.  They actually did in-depth bible study, never once told the kids the bible is historical fact, and encouraged free-thinking.  He doesn't remember ever believing, so he was much further along in his trip to Atheism that I was.

Quote from: "SteveS"EDITED:
Everyone - please don't change your answers on my account - I just can't help blabbing my fat mouth!  I don't necessarily disagree with the answers that differ from mine - as long as you've got a reason, well, you've got a reason, I don't necessarily disagree with your reason.  Problem with simple yes/no to complex questions - depends on how you read them, how many assumptions you make, what context you employ, blah blah blah.  "Tiniest details", as rose said  :wink:

Hey, sometimes, the tiniest details are the BEST details.   :wink:   It's not the size of the argument that counts... wait... Um...  :oops:

Hey rose.  My wife isn't really a typical theist - she is a very sarcastic ex-catholic, and she does not attend or wish to attend church.  I don't think she's comfortable with being called an atheist, though - I can't really get her to talk about it at all.  Mostly she just makes "off color" comments about the church.  We get along fine - there are a few other members with more actively theistic spouses, though.

Oh - and I agree, the tiniest details are the best - that's why I can't stop from blabbing my mouth.

Yes to the first three, and no to the last one. Evolution easily explains where it comes from. But some people aren't wired right. Evolution isn't a perfect process.

Quote from: "zeromiles"I am conducting a survey for an essay I am writing about the existence or non existence of personal/ situational ethics in the lives of Atheists. Please answer the following question with only yes or no,  please.
1. As an atheist, do you find an inner resource of strength and discernment? Yes or no.
2. Where does this inner strength come from? Is it a personal/rational resource? Yes or no.
3. Is it something unexplainable? Yes or no.
4. From birth to death, do ALL people have a potential chance of realizing this inner resource of strength? Yes or no.


Thank you for taking my survey.

As much as I know that vague questions tend to be incredibly fishy, I'll answer anyways. Do NOT misinterpret my answers, and ask if you have any questions about it, or I will hunt you down and set the Invisible Pink Unicorn on you.
1. Yes, it's called a BRAIN. You could also call it muscles if you were talking about physical strength, but yeah...
2. From parts of the human anatomy that are scientifically proved, the brain, nerves, the rest of the Nervous system and muscles (Again, muscles for physical strength)
3. No, it isn't unexplainable. We aren't that bad that we still haven't figured that out after ages of biology.
4. ...Yes?

Now seriously, what kind of inner source are you implying? A 'soul' doesn't exist, using the religious definitions (And not the music one. )
However, a nervous system should be sufficient, or do you have any objections? After all, conscience and morals are all only remembered by the brain. I mean, when you are taught etiquette, and what is accepted as morals, you wouldn't be able to discern if something is against them without your nervous system.

I don't think the OP plans on returning.

This will fix the real Churchworker by now who comes on our atheist forums else where and trolls. I'm really an atheist myself having fun at the expense of the Xians. As for having inner strength I wouldn't be making fun of theist here if I didn't.

In fact now I am going on some theist sites and really have fun dragging Churchworker's name there too. That will fix him for good.

Signed Oldjew at Ex-ChristianNet.forums

...that is really lame...


An Atheist pretending to be a Christian Fundamentalist, trolling on an Atheist forum.



To be honest, the last time I saw something like this, was when I was back in the states, and attacking Myspace Nazi/Racist groups, and they would make fake profiles of African American people, and act like fucking idiots in their own groups, fanning the racist flame.

I fucking hate Nazis and I fucking hate idiots.


We must not use these tactics, ladies and gentlemen.

Probably false prophets lead by Satan.

Quote from: "Churchworker"Probably false prophets lead by Satan.

I got tired of the false prophets, they became annoying middle management (always gossiping around the water cooler) so I just deal directly with Satan now.

I simply am Satan.

Isn't that special?

And I am the biggest false prophet of all and Satan said so and he never lies except to me.

yes
yes
no
yes