Happy Atheist Forum

...Other than some imaginary friend in the sky said it's bad?

I've heard people say things like "It destroys our American values/it's the cause of AIDS/the constitution forbids it/etc."

Do you think this is true? Do you think this is bullshit? (I call it bullshit.)

What are some things you hear fundies say is wrong with homosexuality, and what are some retorts to these claims?

Reason I'm asking is I intend on starting a group for Free Thinkers/Atheists/Agnostics/etc. here, and this area is VERY anto-homosexual, and we plan on helping to change that.

I think, like many things, the idiotic myths attributed to homosexuality are primarily driven by fear...which is the result of ignorance and a failure to understand.  Therefore people must have a basis for their behaviors in demonizing and spurning hatred for a group of people - they must rationalize their behavior for the sake of cognitive continuity and you get those stupid things like homosexuality destroys "American values"...bullshit it is...

Their excuse often goes something like...

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg190.imageshack.us%2Fimg190%2F6848%2Fphpy68cglpm.jpg&hash=908b52a12dca1f4cdcf9e5a4ee44f3d223a86a32)

Or is that just me?

I believe the blame rests squarely on the parents who do not properly explain sexuality to their children.
I was always taught that homosexuals are evil individuals who wanted to destroy the sanctity of marriage.
It wasn't until I started surfing the internet and was exposed to differing views that I decided my views for myself.

Luckily I was at the perfect point to shake off the Christian indoctrination, old enough to think for myself, yet young enough to not be completely converted.

I've mostly heard people say that it is not natural, and goes against the natural desire to procreate. I'm quick to point out that there are a lot of cases of homosexuality in the animal world. And also, that there is more likelyhood of a man being gay if they've got lots of older brothers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_order#Sexuality. Seems pretty natural to me

It's a terrible shame that we are required to justify the existence of a type of person. I'm very anxious for us, as a species, to grow up.

Homosexuality is considered different from the norm and thus gay people are mistrusted and hated by the ignorant. The cure to this kind of ignorance is pure intellectual curiosity, that impulse to learn about something you don't understand instead of running from it or attacking it. The best way I know to spark intellectual curiosity is by answering a person's questions as honestly and completely as possible, particularly if that person is younger.

Quote from: "Lost"I've mostly heard people say that it is not natural, and goes against the natural desire to procreate. I'm quick to point out that there are a lot of cases of homosexuality in the animal world. And also, that there is more likelyhood of a man being gay if they've got lots of older brothers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_order#Sexuality. Seems pretty natural to me

Exactly.

Humanity in it's most natural states would probably be living in small orgiastic communities. No marriage, no monogamous pair bonding. And most would probably be bi-sexual.

I'm straight, personally, but I'm absolutely sick of people making all these terrible claims about homosexuals.

Quote

Quote from: "Cecilie"Their excuse often goes something like...

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg190.imageshack.us%2Fimg190%2F6848%2Fphpy68cglpm.jpg&hash=908b52a12dca1f4cdcf9e5a4ee44f3d223a86a32)

Or is that just me?

Ohh yes. Like George Carlin says, there are three things that politicians stand behind, and the same thing that most people stand behind when they've got nothing else to defend their case. The Bible, Education, and the children.

Christianity seems to have a very unnatural and disproportionatly large focus on sex. They feel they get to decide when people can have sex, whom they can have it with, what positions they are to use. It's all a bit weird really. Some of the top clergy keep themselves celibate, for some reason, as if sex is going to corrupt them or something.

Quote from: "Stevil"Christianity seems to have a very unnatural and disproportionatly large focus on sex. They feel they get to decide when people can have sex, whom they can have it with, what positions they are to use. It's all a bit weird really. Some of the top clergy keep themselves celibate, for some reason, as if sex is going to corrupt them or something.

There was probably some idiot wandering the desert a few thousand years ago who couldn't get any. So he started Christianity. "If I can't get laid, NOBODY gets laid!"

I really can't grasp how some people can think that the God of the Universe, an all powerful, all knowing, omni-present being, really cares about what you do with your genitals. Doesn't he have bigger fish to fry, or is he just bored?  

Seems like the roman empire was doing just fine before christianity screwed it all up, we should bring back the bath houses and brothels for a better society. Maybe if people focus less on keeping people from doing what they want with their genitals they'd get more important things done for a change.

Quote from: "ForTheLoveOfAll"...Other than some imaginary friend in the sky said it's bad?

Some peoplke just find same sex relationships distasteful. Many really have little against homosexuality as a sexual orientation, they just don't want to know that two people of the same sex are having... Well, sex.

There are other "wrongs" too, of course, the validity of which is highly subjective.

QuoteI've heard people say things like "It destroys our American values/it's the cause of AIDS/the constitution forbids it/etc."

Oh... You were asking what is wrong with being gay in America..? A whole mob of things, I suppose.

QuoteDo you think this is true? Do you think this is bullshit? (I call it bullshit.)

Never even seen a US constitution, so no opinion there. Never really seen them "American values" either... So still no opinion. As for AIDS, a virus causes it, not homosexuality.

QuoteWhat are some things you hear fundies say is wrong with homosexuality, and what are some retorts to these claims?

"God created a man and a woman. And a man's penis fits perfectly into a woman's vagina" -...And then he gave them free will to screw whomever they would. And that "perfect fit"-thing... Really..? Ever tried having sex with a mother of six..?  

QuoteReason I'm asking is I intend on starting a group for Free Thinkers/Atheists/Agnostics/etc. here, and this area is VERY anto-homosexual, and we plan on helping to change that.

Well, converting a homophobe can be VERY hard indeed, but if you want to try, it's not a bad thing to do.

Quote from: "Cecilie"Their excuse often goes something like...

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg190.imageshack.us%2Fimg190%2F6848%2Fphpy68cglpm.jpg&hash=908b52a12dca1f4cdcf9e5a4ee44f3d223a86a32)

Or is that just me?

To which someone like me would respond... "yeah, but here's the thing, some of those kids are gay."

Quote from: "Sophus"To which someone like me would respond... "yeah, but here's the thing, some of those kids are gay."

There are no gay kids. Only gay parents...

...Or was it bad dogs and bad owners...  :D

What the fuck is wrong with being gay?
It makes those trying to deny their predilection uncomfortable.
It's not much but it's all I could come up with.

People will be comfortable when the subject becomes a non-issue. This happened when Lewis Hamilton joined the McLaren F1 racing team. He is the first black F1 diver, and not one commentator ever mentioned it. The amount of melanin in his skin had become a non-issue, just as it should be.

I was talking with a Christian once. He said, and I'll always remember this, "Most gay people are the way they are because, as children, they were molested by homosexual adults."

I didn't hear the rest 'cause, you know, I was too busy pooping in my pants.

Quote from: "dgmort19"I was talking with a Christian once. He said, and I'll always remember this, "Most gay people are the way they are because, as children, they were molested by homosexual adults."

I didn't hear the rest 'cause, you know, I was too busy pooping in my pants.

I'd have slapped him and said "BITCH, YOU CRAZY!"

So now that you brought it up like that, absolutely nothing is wrong with being gay.

Quote from: "dgmort19"I was talking with a Christian once. He said, and I'll always remember this, "Most gay people are the way they are because, as children, they were molested by homosexual adults."

I didn't hear the rest 'cause, you know, I was too busy pooping in my pants.

...I would have beat him to with in an inch of his miserable life. Not even kidding. As far as the shit I've heard, I've heard most of these, and then one of my favorites is that homosexualiy and homosexual sex is akin to raping your partner. Again, I wanted to beat this fucker. Yea, beng an outspoken activist, I hear a shit ton of things like this, but some are far worse than others.

Quote...I would have beat him to with in an inch of his miserable life.

Might have ruined the family dinner.  

Yup, it's pretty sad how some people will accept the stupidest, silliest "facts" so that they can maintain their beliefs. I always tell people like this how grateful they ought to be that they were "lucky" enough to be born straight.

Usually, though, they say, "You're right, I am lucky."

Kinda missing the point.

Quote from: "ForTheLoveOfAll"...Other than some imaginary friend in the sky said it's bad?

I've heard people say things like "It destroys our American values/it's the cause of AIDS/the constitution forbids it/etc."

Do you think this is true? Do you think this is bullshit? (I call it bullshit.)

That I know of, there is no secular reason to pick on gays. None that couldn't be knocked over very easily at least. The phrase "American values" simply doesn't mean anything / a deadly pathogen is the cause of AIDS. / Change it then.

QuoteWhat are some things you hear fundies say is wrong with homosexuality, and what are some retorts to these claims?

Same old stuff, really. It's 'unnatural' seems to be the common one. I could answer this with examples of homosexuality in animals but that feels a little besides the point. We're animals too, after all. Even if homosexuality only happened in us that would be enough to make it of nature. 'Natural,' in the sense that some people use the word, just seems to be another one of those vacuous transcendental signifiers, even more reliant on vaguery than 'God,' which amounts to nothing more than a blurt of abstract emotion. Describing something as 'unnatural' is another way of saying "it's bad - me no like!"

The other one is that it isn't 'normal.' I often hear/read about people saying "I have nothing against homosexuality - they should have their rights - but I object to my children being taught in school that it's normal behaviour." This is like the 'american/british/french/german values' thing: it appeals to a myopic, idyllic sense of culture being corroded. In a sense they're right: representing homosexuality as normal does readjust the frame of social norms (duh), it does go against convention, and it does morph the cultural context into something new and unfamiliar. National/cultural identity is a fragile thing, which people build in different ways and often hold very strongly. It has a lot to do with how we view ourselves, not just the outside world. So it's not surprising that some egos are going to feel slightly  threatened. But I think it could be a fear of that change, more than a fear of homosexuality itself, that might cause this sort of reaction. Just as irrational, but perhaps more understandably human, I don't know.

QuoteReason I'm asking is I intend on starting a group for Free Thinkers/Atheists/Agnostics/etc. here, and this area is VERY anto-homosexual, and we plan on helping to change that.

Good luck!

Here's how I look at it...

A religion wants to spread like cockroaches and have as many possible members as possible. Easiest way to give power to those starting and running said religion. Best way to add members? Fuck like jackrabbits (only with your married-before-god spouse, of course, so that the odds of successful brainwash goes up) and make large number of babies. Indoctrinate. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Just make sure you're shooting that baby-gravy into a Va-G-Gee, cause otherwise you won't get her baking any little god-biscuits.

Do not do it yourself. Do not shoot it on your chest. Do not shoot it on her chest. Do not let it land in hair, or the carpet, or the dusty ground, or the counter top, or the laptop screen, or the large intestine... As none of these will help bring about more little religobots to train to do the bidding of the almighty skypappy.

And if it's a guy and another dude. Why, that's simply unproductive and god will torture you in hell for all eternity.

So, like many things, it's organized religion's fault.

Personally, I got no beef with it. Long as people aren't harming each other with their flesh-whistles, I say do whatever you want with them.

Quote from: GAYtheist on March 11, 2011, 08:39:01 PM

Quote from: dgmort19I was talking with a Christian once. He said, and I'll always remember this, "Most gay people are the way they are because, as children, they were molested by homosexual adults."

I didn't hear the rest 'cause, you know, I was too busy pooping in my pants.

...I would have beat him to with in an inch of his miserable life. Not even kidding. As far as the shit I've heard, I've heard most of these, and then one of my favorites is that homosexualiy and homosexual sex is akin to raping your partner. Again, I wanted to beat this fucker. Yea, beng an outspoken activist, I hear a shit ton of things like this, but some are far worse than others.

Well.  That's almost as stupid as being willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life for being being a dumbass.

I think part of the problem is that the people who are homophobic (or racist, sexist, etc) that are also religious get their viewpoints and news and such from a very sheltered perspective.  If you only spend time outside the home in church, or spend time in the home watching only Fox News, you will only find support for whatever views you hold.  One aspect of Christianity (I don't know about other religions, but I was a Christian for 33 years) is that most churches demand that you don't even watch questionable movies or hang out with questionable people.  Buy questionable, I mean those people that might lead someone down the "wrong path."  Preachers teach their sheep to stay away from non-Christian influences, saying that you can only spend so much time near the fire before you get burned.

Right now, there are a lot of people I work with (Air Force) that actually believe that waterboarding led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden.  The former Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, as well as many other sources, have shown this to be wrong.  However, if you get your news from only one place, and if you get your indoctrination from one source, such as church, you will either not see other points of view, or you will discount them as completely wrong.  The more time I spent around the few homosexuals I was exposed to, the more I began to question most of Christianity's view that homosexuality was wrong, or that homosexuals were that way because of some childhood trauma.  If I didn't have that exposure to homosexuals, I might not have come to those realizations.

By the way, I am drinking tonight, so I may not remember this post in the morning.

Quote from: Will37 on May 08, 2011, 04:16:47 AM

Quote from: GAYtheist on March 11, 2011, 08:39:01 PM

Quote from: dgmort19I was talking with a Christian once. He said, and I'll always remember this, "Most gay people are the way they are because, as children, they were molested by homosexual adults."

I didn't hear the rest 'cause, you know, I was too busy pooping in my pants.

...I would have beat him to with in an inch of his miserable life. Not even kidding. As far as the shit I've heard, I've heard most of these, and then one of my favorites is that homosexualiy and homosexual sex is akin to raping your partner. Again, I wanted to beat this fucker. Yea, beng an outspoken activist, I hear a shit ton of things like this, but some are far worse than others.

Well.  That's almost as stupid as being willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life for being being a dumbass.

GAYtheist has been through a lot of crap.  The delivered beating may not improve the other guys worldview, but GAY may find it therapeutic.

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 08, 2011, 06:24:16 AM

Quote from: Will37 on May 08, 2011, 04:16:47 AM

Quote from: GAYtheist on March 11, 2011, 08:39:01 PM

Quote from: dgmort19I was talking with a Christian once. He said, and I'll always remember this, "Most gay people are the way they are because, as children, they were molested by homosexual adults."

I didn't hear the rest 'cause, you know, I was too busy pooping in my pants.

...I would have beat him to with in an inch of his miserable life. Not even kidding. As far as the shit I've heard, I've heard most of these, and then one of my favorites is that homosexualiy and homosexual sex is akin to raping your partner. Again, I wanted to beat this fucker. Yea, beng an outspoken activist, I hear a shit ton of things like this, but some are far worse than others.

Well.  That's almost as stupid as being willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life for being being a dumbass.

GAYtheist has been through a lot of crap.  The delivered beating may not improve the other guys worldview, but GAY may find it therapeutic.

And if he said that had he been told that he would have wanted to beat the individual within an inch of their life that would be one thing.  If he's truely willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life for being ignorant then he has some real shit that he needs to deal with.  Going through 'a lot' doesn't give you a right to beat somebody for holding an opinion or belief that you don't like. 

I appreciate you trying to give context to his claims but no context justifies that.  If he's just talking a big game then that's one thing but if he's serious then he needs to get some help. 

Quote from: Will37And if he said that had he been told that he would have wanted to beat the individual within an inch of their life that would be one thing.  If he's truely willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life for being ignorant then he has some real shit that he needs to deal with.  Going through 'a lot' doesn't give you a right to beat somebody for holding an opinion or belief that you don't like.

I appreciate you trying to give context to his claims but no context justifies that.  If he's just talking a big game then that's one thing but if he's serious then he needs to get some help. 

You don't think you're being a bit literal in how you've interpreted this? When people say things like "I could've killed the guy!" they don't generally mean it. Evidently GAY didn't beat the crap out of this person, so I don't really see the point of what you're saying.

Quote from: Melmoth on May 08, 2011, 07:20:09 PM

Quote from: Will37And if he said that had he been told that he would have wanted to beat the individual within an inch of their life that would be one thing.  If he's truely willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life for being ignorant then he has some real shit that he needs to deal with.  Going through 'a lot' doesn't give you a right to beat somebody for holding an opinion or belief that you don't like.

I appreciate you trying to give context to his claims but no context justifies that.  If he's just talking a big game then that's one thing but if he's serious then he needs to get some help. 

You don't think you're being a bit literal in how you've interpreted this? When people say things like "I could've killed the guy!" they don't generally mean it. Evidently GAY didn't beat the crap out of this person, so I don't really see the point of what you're saying.

The individual didn't say anything to GAY.  GAY was responding to what another person said.  Normally I wouldn't take such talk literally except GAY insisted that I ought to.  "...I would have beat him to with in an inch of his miserable life. Not even kidding."

I do suspect that, despite GAY's claims to the contrary, this is just internet tough talk, but if not he has some serious issues.

Quote from: Will37 on May 08, 2011, 08:30:17 PM

Quote from: Melmoth on May 08, 2011, 07:20:09 PM

Quote from: Will37And if he said that had he been told that he would have wanted to beat the individual within an inch of their life that would be one thing.  If he's truely willing to beat somebody within an inch of their life for being ignorant then he has some real shit that he needs to deal with.  Going through 'a lot' doesn't give you a right to beat somebody for holding an opinion or belief that you don't like.

I appreciate you trying to give context to his claims but no context justifies that.  If he's just talking a big game then that's one thing but if he's serious then he needs to get some help. 

You don't think you're being a bit literal in how you've interpreted this? When people say things like "I could've killed the guy!" they don't generally mean it. Evidently GAY didn't beat the crap out of this person, so I don't really see the point of what you're saying.

The individual didn't say anything to GAY.  GAY was responding to what another person said.  Normally I wouldn't take such talk literally except GAY insisted that I ought to.  "...I would have beat him to with in an inch of his miserable life. Not even kidding."

I do suspect that, despite GAY's claims to the contrary, this is just internet tough talk, but if not he has some serious issues.

I think it's Internet tough talk. Although it does raise an interesting point though. If somebody uses Gay as an insult then maybe the reaction should be 'I didn't know you cared, come here darling and give us a kiss.' Or rather than threatening to beat somebody up to within an inch of their lives offer to be nice to them to within an inch of their lives. I think I could guess which response would give the moron the greatest cause for concern :D

I'm wondering the same thing, too! What is so bad about being gay? Let me give you a bit of a story here.

My husband's family are super religious. He has two cousins, let's call them "C" and "G". C is one of the leaders at his church. His brother is G, who is also a super religious christian, and was best buds with his brother. Well G decided to come out a few years ago, which caused a lot of drama. C didn't want to talk to him, didn't want anyone in the family to talk to him. Told him he needed to find god, blah blah. C has finally started talking to G, but it definitely isn't what it used to be. Recently C's wife called G to make sure he knew where the line was, by telling him when they have kids G is not allowed to come to their house.


Now, here is the kicker. We just found out that C's new best friend is a registered sex offender, where from what I read is from raping 12-16 year olds. They do everything together, and they know all about his past. Yet, his gay brother is the bad guy?! My mind is blown.

Quote from: missedtheboat on May 11, 2011, 04:27:58 PM
I'm wondering the same thing, too! What is so bad about being gay? Let me give you a bit of a story here.

My husband's family are super religious. He has two cousins, let's call them "C" and "G". C is one of the leaders at his church. His brother is G, who is also a super religious christian, and was best buds with his brother. Well G decided to come out a few years ago, which caused a lot of drama. C didn't want to talk to him, didn't want anyone in the family to talk to him. Told him he needed to find god, blah blah. C has finally started talking to G, but it definitely isn't what it used to be. Recently C's wife called G to make sure he knew where the line was, by telling him when they have kids G is not allowed to come to their house.


Now, here is the kicker. We just found out that C's new best friend is a registered sex offender, where from what I read is from raping 12-16 year olds. They do everything together, and they know all about his past. Yet, his gay brother is the bad guy?! My mind is blown.

Some Christians get virtually orgasmic with joy if they have a ex-evil friend who turns to Jesus. My Sister and Brother-in-law were ecstatic when a murderer joined their congregation! That's not to say criminals can't reform, some can. But my mind has been equally 'blown' by the hypocritical behaviour of my sister.

Quote from: Tank on May 11, 2011, 05:36:04 PM

Quote from: missedtheboat on May 11, 2011, 04:27:58 PM
I'm wondering the same thing, too! What is so bad about being gay? Let me give you a bit of a story here.

My husband's family are super religious. He has two cousins, let's call them "C" and "G". C is one of the leaders at his church. His brother is G, who is also a super religious christian, and was best buds with his brother. Well G decided to come out a few years ago, which caused a lot of drama. C didn't want to talk to him, didn't want anyone in the family to talk to him. Told him he needed to find god, blah blah. C has finally started talking to G, but it definitely isn't what it used to be. Recently C's wife called G to make sure he knew where the line was, by telling him when they have kids G is not allowed to come to their house.


Now, here is the kicker. We just found out that C's new best friend is a registered sex offender, where from what I read is from raping 12-16 year olds. They do everything together, and they know all about his past. Yet, his gay brother is the bad guy?! My mind is blown.

Some Christians get virtually orgasmic with joy if they have a ex-evil friend who turns to Jesus. My Sister and Brother-in-law were ecstatic when a murderer joined their congregation! That's not to say criminals can't reform, some can. But my mind has been equally 'blown' by the hypocritical behaviour of my sister.

Wow, that's crazy! I think that is what C thinks he is doing, helping him find god and turning his life around. However, he has already caused a lot of flare ups with our family(before we knew he was a sex offender) so I don't really see him as a someone who has turned around, he just comes off as a horrible person all together.

It just bothers me that his gay brother(who wouldn't hurt a fly) isn't allowed around their kids, but an sex offender is totally cool!

So have you tried to talk with your sister about how weird her situation is, or just leave it be?

Quote from: missedtheboat on May 11, 2011, 06:08:52 PM

Quote from: Tank on May 11, 2011, 05:36:04 PM

Quote from: missedtheboat on May 11, 2011, 04:27:58 PM
I'm wondering the same thing, too! What is so bad about being gay? Let me give you a bit of a story here.

My husband's family are super religious. He has two cousins, let's call them "C" and "G". C is one of the leaders at his church. His brother is G, who is also a super religious christian, and was best buds with his brother. Well G decided to come out a few years ago, which caused a lot of drama. C didn't want to talk to him, didn't want anyone in the family to talk to him. Told him he needed to find god, blah blah. C has finally started talking to G, but it definitely isn't what it used to be. Recently C's wife called G to make sure he knew where the line was, by telling him when they have kids G is not allowed to come to their house.


Now, here is the kicker. We just found out that C's new best friend is a registered sex offender, where from what I read is from raping 12-16 year olds. They do everything together, and they know all about his past. Yet, his gay brother is the bad guy?! My mind is blown.

Some Christians get virtually orgasmic with joy if they have a ex-evil friend who turns to Jesus. My Sister and Brother-in-law were ecstatic when a murderer joined their congregation! That's not to say criminals can't reform, some can. But my mind has been equally 'blown' by the hypocritical behaviour of my sister.

Wow, that's crazy! I think that is what C thinks he is doing, helping him find god and turning his life around. However, he has already caused a lot of flare ups with our family(before we knew he was a sex offender) so I don't really see him as a someone who has turned around, he just comes off as a horrible person all together.

It just bothers me that his gay brother(who wouldn't hurt a fly) isn't allowed around their kids, but an sex offender is totally cool!

So have you tried to talk with your sister about how weird her situation is, or just leave it be?

I don't talk to my sister, she's a complete bitch.  ;D

Quote from: Tank on May 11, 2011, 06:33:01 PM

Quote from: missedtheboat on May 11, 2011, 06:08:52 PM

Quote from: Tank on May 11, 2011, 05:36:04 PM

Quote from: missedtheboat on May 11, 2011, 04:27:58 PM
I'm wondering the same thing, too! What is so bad about being gay? Let me give you a bit of a story here.

My husband's family are super religious. He has two cousins, let's call them "C" and "G". C is one of the leaders at his church. His brother is G, who is also a super religious christian, and was best buds with his brother. Well G decided to come out a few years ago, which caused a lot of drama. C didn't want to talk to him, didn't want anyone in the family to talk to him. Told him he needed to find god, blah blah. C has finally started talking to G, but it definitely isn't what it used to be. Recently C's wife called G to make sure he knew where the line was, by telling him when they have kids G is not allowed to come to their house.


Now, here is the kicker. We just found out that C's new best friend is a registered sex offender, where from what I read is from raping 12-16 year olds. They do everything together, and they know all about his past. Yet, his gay brother is the bad guy?! My mind is blown.

Some Christians get virtually orgasmic with joy if they have a ex-evil friend who turns to Jesus. My Sister and Brother-in-law were ecstatic when a murderer joined their congregation! That's not to say criminals can't reform, some can. But my mind has been equally 'blown' by the hypocritical behaviour of my sister.

Wow, that's crazy! I think that is what C thinks he is doing, helping him find god and turning his life around. However, he has already caused a lot of flare ups with our family(before we knew he was a sex offender) so I don't really see him as a someone who has turned around, he just comes off as a horrible person all together.

It just bothers me that his gay brother(who wouldn't hurt a fly) isn't allowed around their kids, but an sex offender is totally cool!

So have you tried to talk with your sister about how weird her situation is, or just leave it be?

I don't talk to my sister, she's a complete bitch.  ;D

HA! totally understandable!

Sexual orientation is a ridiculous concept to begin with. If the proles weren't accosted with exclusively mixed-gender imagery from birth, the term wouldn't even be topic worthy. People need people; we are all more than capable of satisfying each others needs – gender preference is just another invasive tentacle belonging to the octopus of indoctrination.

For the american values thing, what they mean is that children will get gender roles confused. (I myself find it stupid for hating gays in any way, it is something they are not able to control) If a man in a homosexual relationship does what a woman does in a heterosexual relationship, some people think that their children will be confused with what the role of the man or woman is. Its a stupid reason but really it all points to one thing, that a
god" created man to love woman and vice versa. It is a stupid reason but sadly people tend to believe it.

I was in a Lesbian relationship from the ages of 19-27. I was truly in love with this woman. And we wanted to share our lives together. I finally figured out I was just frightened of men. But I still hold to a lot of lesbian and gay friends and support them 100% in their fight for equality!

Quote from: Medusa on July 30, 2011, 11:06:59 AM
I was in a Lesbian relationship from the ages of 19-27. I was truly in love with this woman. And we wanted to share our lives together. I finally figured out I was just frightened of men. But I still hold to a lot of lesbian and gay friends and support them 100% in their fight for equality!

Lol! I cannot imagine you  being frightened of anybody  :D

Quote from: Tank on July 30, 2011, 01:42:16 PM

Quote from: Medusa on July 30, 2011, 11:06:59 AM
I was in a Lesbian relationship from the ages of 19-27. I was truly in love with this woman. And we wanted to share our lives together. I finally figured out I was just frightened of men. But I still hold to a lot of lesbian and gay friends and support them 100% in their fight for equality!

Lol! I cannot imagine you  being frightened of anybody  :D

Well. At one point I was a victim of men at a very young age. Took me a while to get these claws.  ;)

Quote from: fester30 on May 08, 2011, 06:07:15 AM
I think part of the problem is that the people who are homophobic (or racist, sexist, etc) that are also religious get their viewpoints and news and such from a very sheltered perspective.  If you only spend time outside the home in church, or spend time in the home watching only Fox News, you will only find support for whatever views you hold.  One aspect of Christianity (I don't know about other religions, but I was a Christian for 33 years) is that most churches demand that you don't even watch questionable movies or hang out with questionable people.  Buy questionable, I mean those people that might lead someone down the "wrong path."  Preachers teach their sheep to stay away from non-Christian influences, saying that you can only spend so much time near the fire before you get burned.

Right now, there are a lot of people I work with (Air Force) that actually believe that waterboarding led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden.  The former Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, as well as many other sources, have shown this to be wrong.  However, if you get your news from only one place, and if you get your indoctrination from one source....

Doesn't this work both ways? If one only gets their info from indroctrinating liberal or secular sources, they will then be influenced towards those views, no?

Quote from: Black36 on August 20, 2011, 03:57:43 PM
Doesn't this work both ways? If one only gets their info from indroctrinating liberal or secular sources, they will then be influenced towards those views, no?

What is indoctrinating about getting news from non-religious sources aka secular?  One can be conservative or liberal and prefer secular news sources.

Anyway...I agree on the liberal part; that's why I cross reference important news against all major sources...it tends to weed out the fluff.

But American conservative new.... ::cough:: FOX ::cough:: ....is pretty insane as far as pushing right wing view go.  Though I have noticed that CNN is getting worse...recently they purposefully ignored covering a live speech of Ron Paul's in favor of yapping about other candidates.   I wish there was more just pointing the camera and recording news and less commentary across the board.

Hey, Whitney, WE AGREE!

Quote from: Whitney on August 20, 2011, 04:03:58 PM...But American conservative new.... ::cough:: FOX ::cough:: ....is pretty insane as far as pushing right wing view go.  Though I have noticed that CNN is getting worse...recently they purposefully ignored covering a live speech of Ron Paul's in favor of yapping about other candidates.   I wish there was more just pointing the camera and recording news and less commentary across the board.

Off Topic: Jon Stewart Scolds Media For Ignoring Ron Paul (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-scolds-media-for-ignoring-rep-ron-paul-i-mean-fck-that-guy-right/)

It's not just CNN. Fox is just as guilty in this particular case.


As for "liberal media," my opinion is that bigotry should not be promoted by any media, left or right.  And by the way, there are "conservatives" who realize that there is nothing wrong with being gay. As well, there are "liberals" who find gay people disgusting. Just because the more vociferous anti-gay element in US society happens to be mostly affiliated with the right doesn't mean that it is necessarily a tenet of right-wing thinking that gay people are "deviant" and should be treated as such. I know for a fact that there are conservatives who support the right of gays and lesbians to marry.

I remember in the days after 9/11 seeing Jerry Falwell on either faux news or 700 club blaming homosexuals and the ACLU for the attacks. He obviously, as usual, was looking for another excuse to spread his bigotry, and found one regardless of it's absurdity. That guy is a jackass.

The best connection I see out there is when the homophobes claim being gay is directly connected to being a pedophile. As if there's any logical connection between the two. Those are the people I would indulge in violence against, if I were to beat anyone up for their beliefs... but I won't. But to claim some link between an action you disagree with and the most abhorrent type of criminality, blows my mind and disgusts me.

On a separate note, the fact that Ron Paul was demonized as a conspiracy nut in 2008 and is being ignored by the media now speaks volumes to me about how bad off this country is. I thought in '08 that he was the only candidate I could actually agree with and believe in, and he didn't even make it as far as Hillary, for cryin out loud. Just sad.

Sex is very important to Christians, especially Catholics

Infact, it seems to be quite a neurotic obsession with them.  The principle of celibacy in the clergy only fuels this obsession.  Who was it said "Public celibacy is private sin"?

Celibacy is of course not normal behaviour, or if you want to argue that infact it is, then it is no more absurd than homosexuality.

Being a celibate priest must make for an extraordinarily disfunctional world view.  Some have an unhealthy and unnatural view based on abstinence, whereas other have the same unhealthy and unnatural view based on illegal and immoral child rape.

Sex is similar to food in the pleasure it can bring - humans seek out pleasure as part of their make up.

The only people who are obsessed, one way or another, with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese.  In sexual terms this sums up the Catholic church.

There is nothing wrong with being gay because it is a natural occurance in nature. Dr. Dean Hamer discovered the gay-gene; meaning that people are born gay.

Religious people, however, argue that all people are born heterosexual and for those who are "gay" are just the unsaved ones.

Religion is bullshit and drives hatred.

I am heterosexual and I often find homosexual men and women to be more open minded with their ideas and opinions.

We are all Natures Children, not "God's" children, so we all should love eachother and treat eachother equally.

God didn't create men and women; men and women created him.

It's an overstimulation in the right temporal lobe, if I am correct. A way to releave the anxiety of death.

Take Care

Quote from: Free-Being on September 07, 2011, 08:26:08 AM
There is nothing wrong with being gay because it is a natural occurance in nature. 

Well, actually, you don't need the because clause on this statement. Regardless of whether it is natural, there is nothing wrong with being gay
If a hetrosexual wants to experiment, then who are we to say there is something wrong with that?
Is it natural to fly in a plane, to eat with a fork, to watch tv...
Just don't ask the armish!

Quote from: Stevil on September 07, 2011, 11:38:40 AM

Quote from: Free-Being on September 07, 2011, 08:26:08 AM
There is nothing wrong with being gay because it is a natural occurance in nature. 

Well, actually, you don't need the because clause on this statement. Regardless of whether it is natural, there is nothing wrong with being gay
If a hetrosexual wants to experiment, then who are we to say there is something wrong with that?
Is it natural to fly in a plane, to eat with a fork, to watch tv...
Just don't ask the armish!

Hahaha, I won't ask the armish. Anyways, you are correct. . . I didn't need to add the, "because clause on the statement." I'm just very offended when others put down people for their sexual orientation.

You simply corrected my error- lol

Take care

What the fuck is wrong with being gay?

Fuck if I know!

Unless you have an agenda, and if you do you are not looking at it objectively, there is no problem with being gay.

LGTB, need help?

When somebody debates you, ask them to do some "researches".

1-Compare the number of Christians in jail with the number of LGTB in jail. Then compare the percentage of the total Christian population with the percentage of the Christians in jail. Do the same with LGTB population. Christians in USA: Let say 80% circa, convicts who are Christians over 98%!! LGTB in USA >3%, convicts who are LGTB <0,5%.  ;D

This is just a beginning.

2-Ask them to mention one singular LGTB serial killer ever. Then ask them to mention one singular serial killer who was NOT a Christian. ;)

It is getting funny. Then we end with:

3-Ask them to mention one singular persecution made from LGTB against Christians. Then ask them if they have any idea how many persecution has been done from Christians against LGTBs.

:D

When they will look at you as fools of what they are, tell them that LGTB are much better persons than Christians. Tell them to go in jail, to be a serial killer or a persecutor of much better people than them.

And the trolling continues... ;D

Quote from: Stevil on March 03, 2011, 07:28:25 AM
Christianity seems to have a very unnatural and disproportionatly large focus on sex. They feel they get to decide when people can have sex, whom they can have it with, what positions they are to use. It's all a bit weird really. Some of the top clergy keep themselves celibate, for some reason, as if sex is going to corrupt them or something.

I agree completely. I disagree with most of the 'sex rules' of the Bible. I remember once in Christian school, we were told that oral was against the Bible. I said, "If you think that 69 is against the Bible, you can go to hell." That remark didn't go over too well.

Their is nothing wrong with being gay and I agree with you that fundies use weak and bullshit excuses. I really don't understand America's whole issue with gay marriage and gay rights in general, like you pointed out the bigots using excuses like "it destroys American values" that's a bunch of nonsense. I live in Canada and gay marriage is legal here and I have seen a few openly gay couples walk around etc. guess what ? IT HAS CHANGED NOTHING. It hasn't destroyed our values, it is still the lovely place I know it to be, we don't have an AIDS epidemic because of it and the sky didn't fall.

This idea that the sky will fall if the LGBT community gets rights makes these religious folks sound like chicken little  ::) ...

Quote from: Free-Being on September 07, 2011, 08:26:08 AM
Dr. Dean Hamer discovered the gay-gene; meaning that people are born gay.

I googled this and unfortunately the consensus is one of debunking:
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AqOWMaOM62BMzjHOvOCN3e.xulI6?p=dr.+dean+hamer+gay+gene&fr=ush-mailn

I wonder, what does it matter if people are born homosexual or not? They are who they are. A big, fat, fucking period.  ???

Quote from: Asmodean on November 20, 2011, 04:55:28 PM
I wonder, what does it matter if people are born homosexual or not? They are who they are. A big, fat, fucking period.  ???

I've never thought it did.  To me the main point is, is it harmful?  Granted harmful homosexual things can be done, but the same is true of heterosexuality.  Neither of them is harmful in and of themselves, unless people subscribe to religious superstitions. 

Quote from: Asmodean on November 20, 2011, 04:55:28 PM
I wonder, what does it matter if people are born homosexual or not? They are who they are. A big, fat, fucking period.  ???

Aauuugghh this this this.

I see people argue over this point from both sides, and I used to, and I realized how inane it was. I mean, yeah, it's completely unjustified to discriminate against someone based on their biology, and that's a valid point. But even if it were a choice, there's still really no reason to go batshit over it. I should be more careful; I don't want to end up implying that I think homosexuality is only okay because it's not a choice.

In the past few years, two of my wife's grown sisters have revealed that they are lesbian (or perhaps b-sexual?).  One was married 6 times to 5 different men before she hooked up with her current female partner.  That one was curious to us all, as she never exhibited any such leanings before, and she was in her 40's when her current relationship began. The other one we've always suspected, but she was in a straight marriage so we weren't sure. Now she's come out - late 40's. 

I use to think that the problem with being gay is that if you have children you are possibly passing along a genetic condition.

And if this was true, then homophobe policies from the church has actually caused the numbers of homosexuals in western society to increase artificially over the past thousand years.  Because if you were gay, you would hide it by having a wife and kids and keep your gay hiding in the closet.

And additionally if you were openly gay, and the church converted you back to making children you were again passing along genes that favored homosexuality instead of heterosexuality.

Had this homophobic trend never occured in human history, the numbers of homosexuals would remain a stable small minority.  Because when you just let gay people do what gay people want to do, there are no children.  This is how it occurs in nature and why most of the time balance is the rule.

But all of this only means something when the population is desperate for reproduction.  We are clearly beyond that danger and our tolerance for non reproduction should be extremely high.  If you do not persecute opposite sex couples for not having children, you have no reason to persecute same sex couples who cannot produce children.  And you should definitely respect same sex couples who adopt children from opposite sex couples when their relationship doesn't hold together long enough to be parents.

And regardless of all of these things, we need a society that treats each of its members with equality, no matter what their genetics may be.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 22, 2011, 05:03:14 PM
In the past few years, two of my wife's grown sisters have revealed that they are lesbian (or perhaps b-sexual?).  One was married 6 times to 5 different men before she hooked up with her current female partner.  That one was curious to us all, as she never exhibited any such leanings before, and she was in her 40's when her current relationship began. The other one we've always suspected, but she was in a straight marriage so we weren't sure. Now she's come out - late 40's. 

Sad, is it not, that some people live half their lives - sometimes more - pretending to be something they are not..?

I don't really see the big issue with coming out either... A friend of mine did a very good job coming out to me. It just came up as relevant in casual conversation and he neither hesitated nor flaunted it. Just said something very close to: "Meh... I'm gay, so I wouldn't know" at an appropriate point and we carried on the convo. No drumrolls, no "we needta' talks", no avoiding nor showing off. Much like saying "I don't wear underpants" when its appropriate. It is a generally hidden characteristic, but when of relevance in conversation, why would a person expect to be judged based on it?

Well, one reason could be that far too many people are religious and most of those are idiots and another could be that some parents tend to turn asshole when their kids don't live up to expectations, but still... You are who you are. And to my opinion of a person, their sexual orientation matters as little as whether or not they wear undies, unless I'm trying to get into those, which is another story.

Quote from: Asmodean on November 22, 2011, 08:29:47 PM
Sad, is it not, that some people live half their lives - sometimes more - pretending to be something they are not..?

I don't really see the big issue with coming out either... A friend of mine did a very good job coming out to me. It just came up as relevant in casual conversation and he neither hesitated nor flaunted it. Just said something very close to: "Meh... I'm gay, so I wouldn't know" at an appropriate point and we carried on the convo. No drumrolls, no "we needta' talks", no avoiding nor showing off. Much like saying "I don't wear underpants" when its appropriate. It is a generally hidden characteristic, but when of relevance in conversation, why would a person expect to be judged based on it?

Well, one reason could be that far too many people are religious and most of those are idiots and another could be that some parents tend to turn asshole when their kids don't live up to expectations, but still... You are who you are. And to my opinion of a person, their sexual orientation matters as little as whether or not they wear undies, unless I'm trying to get into those, which is another story.

Interesting way of putting it Asmo, and I agree. Who cares if someone's not straight. They're still a person. (Except in my case, we're still not sure what species a Becca is.) ;)

The anti-gay sentiment out there because of religion is one of the big things that has caused me to go Atheist.  So much friggin hate, prejudice, and deliberately degrading treatment toward human beings over something that is no big deal at all. 

Religious fanatics hate gay people just because a book tells them to; they have absolutely no personal views on the topic aside what they've been brainwashed to believe and if they could just open their eyes and stop drinking the hate causing kool-aid they would see that gay is just another form of love and companionship between two consenting adults, may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's about love end of story.  The world could benefit from having as much love in it as possible....hate or love....hate or love....gee what would a good person choose? 

Gay couples are not living in their household, making out in front of them, trying to convert them to their lifestyle.  They're just living their own lives and to be honest are better people morally than religious people because they are not weighed down by all that imposed hate and prejudice which religion forces on their shoulders. 

See, this is one of the nice thing about Sweden and other Scandinavian countries. The reason homosexuality isn't a big deal is because most of us couldn't give two shits about your sexual orientation. If you're gay, great for you. In the US, it gets a lot of media attention, and I guess that stirs up hate.

Quote from: IcyBabe on December 08, 2011, 02:48:09 PM
The anti-gay sentiment out there because of religion is one of the big things that has caused me to go Atheist. 

It was one of my big reasons as well as far as the christian religion goes.  Strictly because of the whole dislogic of it.  The "creator" would be responsible for allowing gay to happen through his design, then allowed to be quoted on the record in his own book as stating gay people are an abomination, knowing full well the long term consequences this statement in the bible would have on the lives of so many innocent people.  The contradiction of a god who can be aware of everything and at the same time this irresponsible was just too much for me to overlook.

Quote from: xm1 on December 08, 2011, 03:40:55 PM

Quote from: IcyBabe on December 08, 2011, 02:48:09 PM
The anti-gay sentiment out there because of religion is one of the big things that has caused me to go Atheist. 

It was one of my big reasons as well as far as the christian religion goes.  Strictly because of the whole dislogic of it.  The "creator" would be responsible for allowing gay to happen through his design, then allowed to be quoted on the record in his own book as stating gay people are an abomination, knowing full well the long term consequences this statement in the bible would have on the lives of so many innocent people.  The contradiction of a god who can be aware of everything and at the same time this irresponsible was just too much for me to overlook.

In the most simplest terms, would you object to a God that said:

"I have created you flawed, and for this I shall damn you....yet I command you to get better!"

Yeah...I hate this BS, too!

Xm1...you are not alone.  A lot of people feel as you do.  I do!

Seriously...I am on your side.

Love.

Quote from: xm1 on December 08, 2011, 03:40:55 PM

Quote from: IcyBabe on December 08, 2011, 02:48:09 PM
The anti-gay sentiment out there because of religion is one of the big things that has caused me to go Atheist. 

It was one of my big reasons as well as far as the christian religion goes.  Strictly because of the whole dislogic of it.  The "creator" would be responsible for allowing gay to happen through his design, then allowed to be quoted on the record in his own book as stating gay people are an abomination, knowing full well the long term consequences this statement in the bible would have on the lives of so many innocent people.  The contradiction of a god who can be aware of everything and at the same time this irresponsible was just too much for me to overlook.

None of the anti-gay Christians I knew believed anyone was created or even born gay. Thats why they send gay people to those crazy gay camps or try to "Pray the Gay Away". Being gay was seen as a life style choice, some kind of perversion that could be fixed.

Quote from: Happy_Is_Good on December 13, 2011, 07:18:32 AM

In the most simplest terms, would you object to a God that said:

"I have created you flawed, and for this I shall damn you....yet I command you to get better!"

I think most Christians do believe everyone was born flawed. (Adam and Eve were the only "Created" people and they were created perfect.)

But this is the whole Christian concept of Original Sin. Everyone born after Adams fall is born flawed, a sinner. Christians don't blame God for mans sin. God made man and woman perfect "In God's Image". It was mankind who chose sin. Being gay is like cancer, not a creation of God per se but more like a mutation that only happened after the fall of mankind.

I used to think this way too. When I finally realized there was no good reason to believe in the Christian God was the first time I knew it was stupid to hate gays because God did.

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with being guy.  While I'm heterosexual, some of the nicest people I have ever met are guy.  People should let others live their lives the way they want to live them without the fear of persecution.

Has anybody else heard about this:  One Million Moms protest JC Penney hiring Ellen Degeneres as spokeswoman (http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2012/02/03/jc-penney-stands-by-ellen-degeneres-as-spokeswoman/).  One Million Moms is a division of the American Family Association, a conservative Xtian group that sees itself as a watchdog on immorality in the media and entertainment.  If Penney's doesn't lose its spine and cave in to the OMM, I'll start shopping there.

Well, it IS well-known that gays are out to turn our kids to their twisted, wicked ways. And that's bad. Because... Because...

Eh... WHY is that bad, exactly, were one to assume that it held water in the first place?

Quote from: Asmodean on February 04, 2012, 08:56:52 PM
Well, it IS well-known that gays are out to turn our kids to their twisted, wicked ways. And that's bad. Because... Because...

Eh... WHY is that bad, exactly, were one to assume that it held water in the first place?

Why, they might learn to dance properly, and carry a tune!  As everyone who is a decent human being knows, dancing and singing are characteristics of mud people (i.e., non-whites) which would be sufficient to condemn said kids even without the sexual degeneracy (opinion courtesy of one of my stepfathers *shudder*).

Quote from: Asmodean on February 04, 2012, 08:56:52 PM
Well, it IS well-known that gays are out to turn our kids to their twisted, wicked ways. And that's bad. Because... Because...

Eh... WHY is that bad, exactly, were one to assume that it held water in the first place?

Yeah, my little girl's developing strange, evil fascinations with rhyming words, nature of all sorts (especially leaves and bugs, sigh), the colour green, photography, artwork, tricycle riding, and taking long afternoon naps in the sun next to my pet cat, who very clearly sees A. as "her kitten".  ;D

Twisted and wicked indeed. ;)

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 04, 2012, 09:06:46 PM

Quote from: Asmodean on February 04, 2012, 08:56:52 PM
Well, it IS well-known that gays are out to turn our kids to their twisted, wicked ways. And that's bad. Because... Because...

Eh... WHY is that bad, exactly, were one to assume that it held water in the first place?

Why, they might learn to dance properly, and carry a tune!  As everyone who is a decent human being knows, dancing and singing are characteristics of mud people (i.e., non-whites) which would be sufficient to condemn said kids even without the sexual degeneracy (opinion courtesy of one of my stepfathers *shudder*).

Learn to dance? not from Ellen I hope.
My daughter likes Ellen quite a lot, her attitude to gays wasn't that great a while back, I hope Ellen has made her think.
In a way I welcome conservatives attacking popular figures, I think their side will loose by it.
I'm usually opposed to Americans marrying beautiful Australian women, I suppose I can make a grudging exception for Ellen.  She is less objectionable than Tom Cruise.

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on February 04, 2012, 08:38:21 PM
Has anybody else heard about this:  One Million Moms protest JC Penney hiring Ellen Degeneres as spokeswoman (http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2012/02/03/jc-penney-stands-by-ellen-degeneres-as-spokeswoman/).  One Million Moms is a division of the American Family Association, a conservative Xtian group that sees itself as a watchdog on immorality in the media and entertainment.  If Penney's doesn't lose its spine and cave in to the OMM, I'll start shopping there.

Those One Million Moms assholes are too much.  I think they literally scour the internet and TV and what not for things to be offended by.  Last time I heard of them, they were threatening to boycott Ben & Jerry's because they had a new ice cream flavor named after an SNL skit..."Schweddy Balls" ;D.  I guess the name One Million Humorless Self Righteous Shrews must have already been taken.   :-\

Quote from: Ali on February 05, 2012, 12:57:09 AM
"Schweddy Balls" ;D. 

Must find this ice cream!

QuoteI guess the name One Million Humorless Self Righteous Shrews must have already been taken.   :-\

That would be my guess.

technically speaking, a more restricted range/repertoire of potential suitable partner/targets
straights come close second next
Bi's open the circle significantly

and pansexuals including objects and animals arre potentially immune to limits

we are all of pansexual potential, let's not kid ourselves

Quote from: ForTheLoveOfAll
I've heard people say things like "It destroys our American values/it's the cause of AIDS/the constitution forbids it/etc.Do you think this is true? Do you think this is bullshit? (I call it bullshit.)

You need exhaustive analysis to list NON BULLSHIT items on your planetary ruler list

they are there, but hidden from view

Just to add my two cents: I don't judge on matters of personal taste, and that includes sexuality.