Happy Atheist Forum

PA. teacher strikes nerve with 'lazy whiners' blog (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110216/ap_on_hi_te/us_teacher_suspended_blog)
I find this comedic and so true of the kids these days... including my own at times.

What do you think?

I think they should send her entire class to boot camp.

But I mean, come on. She's 8 months pregneant? Honestly, I quit reading after that. That's pretty much all the explanation I needed.

Kids are lazy whiners because they can be.

Kids today take for granted a lot of things their parents did not when they were young. It's a sign of a dynamic society, and not necessarilly a bad thing.

Quote from: "Asmodean"Kids are lazy whiners because they can be.

Kids today take for granted a lot of things their parents did not when they were young. It's a sign of a dynamic society, and not necessarilly a bad thing.

I tend to agree and disagree.  Kids ARE lazy and whiners.  What I disagree with is that this dynamic society is not necessarily getting better, but worse.  (not speaking of knowledge as a whole).  Is anything taken for granted a good thing?  I'm not speaking of the sun rising and setting type of taking for granted.  It's the appreciation for a work ethic, pride in your history, pride in your work regardless of what it is...pride in responsibility, pride and devotion to a country that isn't your "home", but is the place that is giving you something more than "home" can...pride in the gaining of knowledge (school), in making a difference, in intelligence...

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"What I disagree with is that this dynamic society is not necessarily getting better, but worse.  (not speaking of knowledge as a whole).  Is anything taken for granted a good thing?  I'm not speaking of the sun rising and setting type of taking for granted.  It's the appreciation for a work ethic, pride in your history, pride in your work regardless of what it is...pride in responsibility, pride and devotion to a country that isn't your "home", but is the place that is giving you something more than "home" can...pride in the gaining of knowledge (school), in making a difference, in intelligence...

Oh, it may seem bad to us, just like I suppose someone who lived in the 1800s would likely be horrified by the state of our society, but it may be that the kids would rather not have it any other way. If we are evolving into chair-shaped amoebas, it is not our place to decide that it's a bad thing. Ask the amoeba if it's happy that way first.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"What I disagree with is that this dynamic society is not necessarily getting better, but worse.  (not speaking of knowledge as a whole).  Is anything taken for granted a good thing?  I'm not speaking of the sun rising and setting type of taking for granted.  It's the appreciation for a work ethic, pride in your history, pride in your work regardless of what it is...pride in responsibility, pride and devotion to a country that isn't your "home", but is the place that is giving you something more than "home" can...pride in the gaining of knowledge (school), in making a difference, in intelligence...

Oh, it may seem bad to us, just like I suppose someone who lived in the 1800s would likely be horrified by the state of our society, but it may be that the kids would rather not have it any other way. If we are evolving into chair-shaped amoebas, it is not our place to decide that it's a bad thing. Ask the amoeba if it's happy that way first.

By "we" I assume you must mean today's kids...as this is the subject.

Do you mean to say that we should ask kids how they feel and if they feel "better" it IS better?  Seems silly to ask kids and thus define the good or bad in it as we adults always seem to mention, "You know, in hindsight..."

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"By "we" I assume you must mean today's kids...as this is the subject.

I am no kid. I'm in the generation between teens and their parents. In this case, "us" is the adults or, on a larger scale, every one alive today, where as "they" (or whatever word I used) is the future generations.

QuoteDo you mean to say that we should ask kids how they feel and if they feel "better" it IS better?

We shouldn't ask them at all, on the scale with which I operate here. By the time the question would become relevant, if asked now, we would be dead. What I AM saying though, is that there are changes from parent to offspring generations. They may seem bad to the old farts, however, given enough time, they lead to new societies with different values and ideals and those, even if the old generations (would) find them repulsive, are all good, as long as holders of those values and ideals deem them so.

QuoteSeems silly to ask kids and thus define the good or bad in it as we adults always seem to mention, "You know, in hindsight..."

I don't. And I know very few others, from a relatively large sample, who would change their way of life to that of an average adult in the time of my childhood, not to mention the sixties or 19th century.

Oh, sure, some people whine about how they skipped school and smoked whatever they could lay hands on and spent time on pleasures and ended up losers, but still, their core values are largely those of the rest of the generation.

I see your point, Asmodean.  I disagree, but I do see it.  
(btw, I didn't mean to infer you were a kid)

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"(btw, I didn't mean to infer you were a kid)

Nobody seems to since I got the beard...  

/Gerascophobia

This seems to be thee result of a series of failures.

The first, and probably the most important failure is that of parents. Not all parents, mind you, but collectively parents want teachers to raise their kids for them. As a new teacher myself, this has been a rude awakening. My parents were far from perfect in raising me, but they did raise me. This is due in no small part to the fact that my mother worked from home and my father made it a point to have reasonable work hours so we could have time as a family. I wonder if, for the majority of families, that's even financially feasible anymore. Regardless, responsibilities like teaching morality, critical thinking, and motivation are left to overworked, underpaid teachers who are not equipped to be surrogate parents to dozens of children a day.

The second failure is that of the school system itself. Since the creation of a centralized school system, we've gone back and fourth between factory models and models based on a bad understanding of John Lock's behaviorism (the so-called Lockean Child system). Our school system is not set up for the way children think or behave. Children are forced to become unthinking, memorizing workers; drones. The problem is that from a psychological standpoint this is not natural or healthy. There are alternative theories of teaching which have been scientifically proven to yield in more successful children in that they are capable of wanting to learn, they understand how to learn, they can be self-directed in their learning, they are critical thinkers, and they think scientifically naturally. It's assumed children should be bored in school and it's natural to rebel, but this is a byproduct of a poor system more than it is a child's individuation or laziness.

The third failure is that of popular culture, particularly the media, in not accepting that there's a social responsibility to entertaining and marketing. I cannot imagine something more destructive to a young person's mind than marketing, creating a population of needy, mindless consumers who have built their egos on the sand of consumerism. The latest iPod or PC or car is sought with great tenacity by children while a good education and healthy lifestyle fall by the wayside.

The final failure, of course, is that of the children themselves. Yes, the rules are set against you, but it is not impossible to grow up without being a spoiled, shallow brat. One can buckle down and study, learn to answer your own questions, etc. even in the toxic environment you're growing up in. HAF is full of folks who developed critical thinking skill on their own and had the testicular or ovular fortitude to apply it even to the most sacred of their preconceptions.

All that having been said, that blog isn't helping anyone. That teacher should find a healthier way to vent her frustrations and might want to put her energies into exploring with ways to motivate students.

Quote from: "Will"All that having been said, that blog isn't helping anyone. That teacher should find a healthier way to vent her frustrations and might want to put her energies into exploring with ways to motivate students.

I can agree with what you stated.  However, as that teacher mentioned in the video interview, she's not sorry (or proud) for her words.  She spoke her feelings.  If anything, they will spark discussion on the problem and hopefully something is done to one or all the points you mention.  I for one, find her words ringing more truth than a simple rant.

13 should still be the age of majority, IMO.

There was a day when a 13 year old commanded a war ship, was sulf sustainable, etc. Mind you, not all were, and I'd be willing to bet most wouldn't of been capable of sustaining themselves, but they were certainly MORE capable than most kids these days.

Too much "entertainment" and too many creature comforts has made a lazy generation of human beings.

Quote from: "ForTheLoveOfAll"13 should still be the age of majority, IMO.

There was a day when a 13 year old commanded a war ship, was sulf sustainable, etc. Mind you, not all were, and I'd be willing to bet most wouldn't of been capable of sustaining themselves, but they were certainly MORE capable than most kids these days.

Too much "entertainment" and too many creature comforts has made a lazy generation of human beings.

Evidence?

I get tired of hearing this, it's nothing new, the older generation thinks the next generation will be the end of civilization, they're lazy degenerates, they suck, etc. Thing is, every generation in it's twilight years says this and have done so as far back as human history goes, the "lazy" generation will have as many if not more accomplishments than the previous generation and then the process will repeat, the "lazy" generation will say the next generation is "lazy" but they won't be, they will be adjusting to what they have been given by the previous generation so they can improve humanity in their own way. People think today's youth are lazy good for nothings but I bet a large amount of them can reprogram your phone, computer, watch, etc in comparison to all you old folks could when you were the lazy good for nothing generation as well. I'm in my 20s but i'm counted in with this "lazy" generation as well; I can see the cycle if I look at my own family. My great grandmother though her daughter was a lazy good for nothing yet my grandmother was a powerful player in Chicago unions during the 50s and 60s. She thought her kids were lazy yet my uncle has had a wealth of success. My dad thought I was a lazy twat who played video games all day yet here I am going to school to make video games and I've saved the family thousands when it comes to buying or repairing computers.  Ultima Jr. will do the same i'm sure, hopefully I will remember not to make the mistake of thinking that my child is a lazy good for nothing because he doesn't behave exactly like my generation.

Quote from: "Ultima22689"I get tired of hearing this, it's nothing new, the older generation thinks the next generation will be the end of civilization, they're lazy degenerates, they suck, etc. Thing is, every generation in it's twilight years says this and have done so as far back as human history goes, the "lazy" generation will have as many if not more accomplishments than the previous generation and then the process will repeat, the "lazy" generation will say the next generation is "lazy" but they won't be, they will be adjusting to what they have been given by the previous generation so they can improve humanity in their own way. People think today's youth are lazy good for nothings but I bet a large amount of them can reprogram your phone, computer, watch, etc in comparison to all you old folks could when you were the lazy good for nothing generation as well. I'm in my 20s but i'm counted in with this "lazy" generation as well; I can see the cycle if I look at my own family. My great grandmother though her daughter was a lazy good for nothing yet my grandmother was a powerful player in Chicago unions during the 50s and 60s. She thought her kids were lazy yet my uncle has had a wealth of success. My dad thought I was a lazy twat who played video games all day yet here I am going to school to make video games and I've saved the family thousands when it comes to buying or repairing computers.  Ultima Jr. will do the same i'm sure, hopefully I will remember not to make the mistake of thinking that my child is a lazy good for nothing because he doesn't behave exactly like my generation.

^This

I'm not sure what to think about a teacher blogging like this.  On the one hand, I know enough teachers to know that they all complain about their students to their friends and family (though some more than others).  On the other hand, I think it was a bad move for two reasons 1) Like it or not, teachers have to worry about their public image because that affects how the students will view them and bitching about the students where the students can find it can only serve to hurt feelings. 2) Professionals don't make public record of anything they couldn't or wouldn't say about their profession, clients, co-workers in a professional setting even if they are doing so during their free time.

If I was a teacher and wanted to blog about my students I'd create a pen name, not mention where I taught and make my who is private because I wouldn't want the students to find out I was talking behind their backs...then I'd use that blog as a method to point out the problems with our education system in order to effect change.  If I had students who were a big problem I'd approach them and ask why they act that way then try to adjust my teaching to accommodate them ...maybe they are troubled kids who just needs someone to care or maybe they are bored.

In my experience with today's youth (and from remembering how it was when I was in school), those who come from stable households and are challenged in school don't act out.  It's the poor kids who's parents have to work all the time just to make ends meet, parents who are dysfunctional, or the kids who are bored that end up being problems (in general).

QuoteIt's the poor kids who's parents have to work all the time just to make ends meet, parents who are dysfunctional, or the kids who are bored that end up being problems (in general).

"Dysfunctional" is a very broad description. I think it needs to be further refined. Kids who have parents that are abusive (mentally or physically), divorced (especially if it was a nasty divorce during a kid's early adolescent period), actively participating in illegal activities (drugs, theft, fraud, etc.), completely self-centered and who largely ignore their children are MUCH more to turn out as problem kids IMO.

However, this is not always the case. I have seen plenty of "exceptions to the rule" within my generation. My were divorced, both participated in some mildly illegal activities, and both worked quite a bit (my Dad I only got to see every 2 or 3 months, as he was always off doing Army stuff). Yet I turned out...wait...nevermind. I think it just proved the rule.  

I think the only mistake she made was being found out. As Whitney pointed out, if she felt she had to bitch about her students, at least do it where it can't be traced to her. On her blog...not so smart.

I spoke loads about a teacher I had (I've never loathed anyone as much as I loathe the woman), but not to anyone who had any contact with her or online. That teacher, on the other hand, spoke ill of me to people who were directly involved with me (other teachers) poisoning their minds against me with unfounded rubbish which they themselves were too stupid to see through, effects which I felt. I can see why the students and school reacted as they did.

I think she should be transferred.