Title: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious text
Post by: ForTheLoveOfAll on February 14, 2011, 05:41:45 PM
Post by: ForTheLoveOfAll on February 14, 2011, 05:41:45 PM
Every one of them has them. Things that make no sense, things that make sense but are just appalling, scientific errors, timescale errors, self-contradictory verses.
I'm mostly versed in the Bible, so I'll start with it.
Scientific errors.
Three of the ones that are most laughable to me are as follows.
In Genesis, the earth was formed and floreated before the sun even came about. Biochemical problems aside, this directly contradicts the nebular hypothesis of stellar formation. Plants are made on the third day, before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes.
The formation of the Earth as opposed to the stars is a bit confusing to me, as well. It takes God longer to make the Earth than it did for him to make the rest of the Universe. I mean, after all, to a man a few thousand years ago, the stars are only little tiny dots of light, after all. Would've made sense at the time.
Also, in my opinion, denial that we evolved is comparable to saying the Earth is flat and that the Sun revolves around us, instead of vice-versa. Yet in the Bible there is no indication whatsoever what we have evolved, but that we were created one way and have stayed this way.
General horrors.
Ex. 22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
Lev. 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death."
The god of the Bible comes across as a rather insecure fellow, and someone who can't stand anyone even suggesting that he may not be the one and only god. He's jealous and vindictive, and demands the death of anyone who would tempt his followers to follow another god, or who would mock him.
Ex. 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Ex. 21:15 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Ex. 21:17 He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Ex. 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
Lev. 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.
Deut. 25:11-12 If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.
Ex. 21: 20-21
When a man strikes his slave or slave girl with a stick and the slave dies on the spot, he must be punished. But he is not to be punished if the slave survives for one day or two, because the slave is his property
Yeah, try introducing the death penalty today for such crimes. You don't hear Chritians spouting this these days.
There are far more passages in the Bible depicting grusome murders as carried out by God and his followers than of love and good will towards your fellow human being. I wont even bother posting the incalculable number of verses here, but simply invite you to glance through the Old Testament. And, though not quite as frequent, it's in the New, too.
Things that make no sense at all.
Genesis 19: 8
"Look, I have two daughters, virgins both of them. Let me bring them out to you and you could do what you like with them. But do nothing to these men because they have come under the shelter of my roof."
What man would give his daughters to be raped as opposed to a guest?
Genesis 19: 26
But Lot's wife looked back and she turned into a pillar of salt.
Really, god? Looking back was THAT big of a deal?
Leviticus 24: 16
Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death.
JUST for saying his name. Geez.
Anyway, that's enough examples from me for now. Point out what you like about the Bible or anything else.
I'm mostly versed in the Bible, so I'll start with it.
Scientific errors.
Three of the ones that are most laughable to me are as follows.
In Genesis, the earth was formed and floreated before the sun even came about. Biochemical problems aside, this directly contradicts the nebular hypothesis of stellar formation. Plants are made on the third day, before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes.
The formation of the Earth as opposed to the stars is a bit confusing to me, as well. It takes God longer to make the Earth than it did for him to make the rest of the Universe. I mean, after all, to a man a few thousand years ago, the stars are only little tiny dots of light, after all. Would've made sense at the time.
Also, in my opinion, denial that we evolved is comparable to saying the Earth is flat and that the Sun revolves around us, instead of vice-versa. Yet in the Bible there is no indication whatsoever what we have evolved, but that we were created one way and have stayed this way.
General horrors.
Ex. 22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
Lev. 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death."
The god of the Bible comes across as a rather insecure fellow, and someone who can't stand anyone even suggesting that he may not be the one and only god. He's jealous and vindictive, and demands the death of anyone who would tempt his followers to follow another god, or who would mock him.
Ex. 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Ex. 21:15 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Ex. 21:17 He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Ex. 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
Lev. 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.
Deut. 25:11-12 If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.
Ex. 21: 20-21
When a man strikes his slave or slave girl with a stick and the slave dies on the spot, he must be punished. But he is not to be punished if the slave survives for one day or two, because the slave is his property
Yeah, try introducing the death penalty today for such crimes. You don't hear Chritians spouting this these days.
There are far more passages in the Bible depicting grusome murders as carried out by God and his followers than of love and good will towards your fellow human being. I wont even bother posting the incalculable number of verses here, but simply invite you to glance through the Old Testament. And, though not quite as frequent, it's in the New, too.
Things that make no sense at all.
Genesis 19: 8
"Look, I have two daughters, virgins both of them. Let me bring them out to you and you could do what you like with them. But do nothing to these men because they have come under the shelter of my roof."
What man would give his daughters to be raped as opposed to a guest?
Genesis 19: 26
But Lot's wife looked back and she turned into a pillar of salt.
Really, god? Looking back was THAT big of a deal?
Leviticus 24: 16
Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death.
JUST for saying his name. Geez.
Anyway, that's enough examples from me for now. Point out what you like about the Bible or anything else.
Title: Re: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious
Post by: Tank on February 14, 2011, 07:06:18 PM
Post by: Tank on February 14, 2011, 07:06:18 PM
[youtube:5qkmdppe]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk[/youtube:5qkmdppe]
Title: Re: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious
Post by: Guardian85 on February 15, 2011, 05:49:47 PM
Post by: Guardian85 on February 15, 2011, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: "ForTheLoveOfAll"Ex. 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
And to add insult to injury the poor beast is to be slain, too.
Madness, I tell you...
Title: Re: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious
Post by: ForTheLoveOfAll on February 15, 2011, 07:34:20 PM
Post by: ForTheLoveOfAll on February 15, 2011, 07:34:20 PM
Quote from: "Guardian85"I'm not into bestiality, and I'd question the sanity of anyone who is. But it seems rather... overzealous to kill someone for deciding to get busy with a sheep.Quote from: "ForTheLoveOfAll"Ex. 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
And to add insult to injury the poor beast is to be slain, too.
Madness, I tell you...
Title: Re: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious
Post by: JoeBobSmith on February 16, 2011, 06:31:11 AM
Post by: JoeBobSmith on February 16, 2011, 06:31:11 AM
;)
Title: Re: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious
Post by: Guardian85 on February 16, 2011, 07:37:34 PM
Post by: Guardian85 on February 16, 2011, 07:37:34 PM
In Numbers, God commands the Israelites to attack the Medianites. The armies of the Israeiltes made fairly well short work of the Medianite warriors and took their city. But they spared the women and children before burning the cities.
This restraint on the part of the Israelite army infuriated Moses to no end. :shake:
This restraint on the part of the Israelite army infuriated Moses to no end. :shake:
Title: Re: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious
Post by: ForTheLoveOfAll on February 17, 2011, 03:28:47 AM
Post by: ForTheLoveOfAll on February 17, 2011, 03:28:47 AM
Quote from: "Guardian85"In Numbers, God commands the Israelites to attack the Medianites. The armies of the Israeiltes made fairly well short work of the Medianite warriors and took their city. But they spared the women and children before burning the cities.At least he didn't let the poor girls die virgins?
This restraint on the part of the Israelite army infuriated Moses to no end. :shake:
Title: Re: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious
Post by: JoeBobSmith on February 17, 2011, 06:04:21 AM
Post by: JoeBobSmith on February 17, 2011, 06:04:21 AM
Title: Re: Let's find random horrors and errors in every religious
Post by: penfold on February 20, 2011, 02:25:31 PM
Post by: penfold on February 20, 2011, 02:25:31 PM
Samuel 2, 11:1 - 12:25. The story of King David and Bathsheba. The basic plot is horrifying enough; David sleeps with beautiful Bathsheba, wife of Uriah the Hittite. David then conspires to have Uriah killed in war so he can marry Bathsheba, who is now pregnant with his son. The LORD is displeased. He sends Nathan to rebuke David. Originally God will punish David by making his wives sleep with someone else, but David barters him down to a mere killing of his new son. David fasts to try and save his son but God does not relent. David and Bathsheba then have a second son; Solomon (future King), who is named by Nathan "Jeieiah" (loved by the Lord).
Apart from the appallingly random nature of God's wrath; the thing that is really, deeply, horrible about this story is the position of Bathsheba in it.
First David "sleeps" with her, though from the text it appears she had little say in the matter:
Having been kidnapped by a gang of thugs, "purified" by washing, and raped by the King; Bathsheba then finds out she's pregnant. At this point things change for David, the rape victim is now carrying his child, a-flush with royal blood. So he decides the best solution is to kill her husband. David can then take her as his own legally:
So the LORD sends Nathan to tell David off. Nathan goes along and then, in a surprisingly witty manner, shows David the error of his ways:
So the LORD is angry because Bathsheba, who had been legally "bought" by Uriah, had been taken by David to be one of his "sheep and cattle". And what exactly is the LORD's punishment for this shady transaction of a human being?
Lucky Bathsheba! She may have been egregiously wronged by David, but the LORD is here to fight her corner! Apparently by forcing her to be raped in public by yet another man. (Not to mention all David's other 'legal' wives who will be forced to do the same). Actually Bathsheba needn't worry, because David says to Nathan he is very sorry and God relents, instead he will kill Bathsheba's son:
David is naturally upset and fasts to try and save his son but to no avail. He seems okay about it all though:
Poor old David. You win some, you loose some. Ah well, once you've calmed the bitch down you can always rape her again, and if that doesn't work you've got other cattle. As for Bathsheba, she gets another son, a lovely boy, one day to grow up and be a man. A man who can trade and rape his own cattle with the impunity of a King.
Apart from the appallingly random nature of God's wrath; the thing that is really, deeply, horrible about this story is the position of Bathsheba in it.
First David "sleeps" with her, though from the text it appears she had little say in the matter:
QuoteFrom the roof he [David] saw a woman bathing.The woman was very beautiful, [...]
Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.)
- II Samuel 11:2-4 N.I.V. trans.
Having been kidnapped by a gang of thugs, "purified" by washing, and raped by the King; Bathsheba then finds out she's pregnant. At this point things change for David, the rape victim is now carrying his child, a-flush with royal blood. So he decides the best solution is to kill her husband. David can then take her as his own legally:
QuoteWhen Uriah's wife heard that her husband was dead, she mourned for him. After the time of mourning was over, David had her brought to his house , and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing David had done displeased the LORD - ibid. 11:26-27
So the LORD sends Nathan to tell David off. Nathan goes along and then, in a surprisingly witty manner, shows David the error of his ways:
Quote... Nathan ... said, "There were two men in a certain town one rich and the other poor. The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb that he had bought. [...]
Now a traveller came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking of his own cattle to prepare a meal for the traveller who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb of the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him."
David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, "[...] the man who did this deserves to die [...]".
Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man!"- ibid. 12:1-7
So the LORD is angry because Bathsheba, who had been legally "bought" by Uriah, had been taken by David to be one of his "sheep and cattle". And what exactly is the LORD's punishment for this shady transaction of a human being?
Quote"This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight [...] before all of Israel. - ibid. 12:11-12
Lucky Bathsheba! She may have been egregiously wronged by David, but the LORD is here to fight her corner! Apparently by forcing her to be raped in public by yet another man. (Not to mention all David's other 'legal' wives who will be forced to do the same). Actually Bathsheba needn't worry, because David says to Nathan he is very sorry and God relents, instead he will kill Bathsheba's son:
QuoteThe David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD"
Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin [...] but [...] the son borne to you will die." - ibid. 12:13-14
David is naturally upset and fasts to try and save his son but to no avail. He seems okay about it all though:
Quote"Is the child dead?", he asked.
"Yes", they replied, "he is dead."
Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshipped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food and he ate.
His servants asked him, "why are you acting in this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"
He answered "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.' But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and he went to her and lay with her. She gave birth to a son, and they named him Solomon, the LORD loved him..."
- ibid. 12:19-24
Poor old David. You win some, you loose some. Ah well, once you've calmed the bitch down you can always rape her again, and if that doesn't work you've got other cattle. As for Bathsheba, she gets another son, a lovely boy, one day to grow up and be a man. A man who can trade and rape his own cattle with the impunity of a King.