Happy Atheist Forum

How many atheists here ask other tough questions in life as we know it today? One example, our current war and the events the led us to where we are today.

Quote from: "RyB17"How many atheists here ask other tough questions in life as we know it today? One example, our current war and the events the led us to where we are today.

What are you talking about? What "tough questions"..? There are many questions that may be hard to answer. Are you talking about something specific, beyond your example which does not specify whos (Our means your and someone else's. Who is that someone?) war against what and which events are in question.

Sorry for being vague. I'm just curious if people here question modern conspiracy theories.

Quote from: "RyB17"Sorry for being vague. I'm just curious if people here question modern conspiracy theories.

I haven't come across a conspiracy theory that I yet think holds water. Is there any particular CT you're interested in?

Quote from: "RyB17"Sorry for being vague. I'm just curious if people here question modern conspiracy theories.

While groups of people often conspired the ideas typically referred to as Conspiracy Theories tend to be junk.  In the rare event one seems somewhat compelling I research it, research the mainstream view, and come to my own conclusion.

I've done a lot of research on 9/11 and JFK. I really have a hard time accepting the "official story" we have been fed. I'm not a crazy "truther" but it really interests me because there are a lot of questions that can be answered if evidence that was seized by the FBI was released to the public.

I'm not asking to start a huuuuge pissing contest, I'm asking because I respect your opinions.

Quote from: "RyB17"I've done a lot of research on 9/11 and JFK. I really have a hard time accepting the "official story" we have been fed. I'm not a crazy "truther" but it really interests me because there are a lot of questions that can be answered if evidence that was seized by the FBI was released to the public.

I'm not asking to start a huuuuge pissing contest, I'm asking because I respect your opinions.

Well I'm up to discussing 9/11, but can we do it one step at a time please?

I think if you visited the six floor museum in dallas and walked around the area that would put the conspiracy theories to rest; of course I say this knowing that right now there are at least two guys outside the place at all times trying to sell conspiracy pamphlets to tourists.

As for 9/11 I may not be interested in discussing it in depth but can throw in my 2 cents on the stability of building structures if a discussion occurs.

Quote from: "Whitney"I think if you visited the six floor museum in dallas and walked around the area that would put the conspiracy theories to rest; of course I say this knowing that right now there are at least two guys outside the place at all times trying to sell conspiracy pamphlets to tourists.

As for 9/11 I may not be interested in discussing it in depth but can throw in my 2 cents on the stability of building structures if a discussion occurs.

I also have a friend he spends his time debunking 9/11 stuff who I can ask to join in as well.

Quote from: "Whitney"I think if you visited the six floor museum in dallas and walked around the area that would put the conspiracy theories to rest; of course I say this knowing that right now there are at least two guys outside the place at all times trying to sell conspiracy pamphlets to tourists.

As for 9/11 I may not be interested in discussing it in depth but can throw in my 2 cents on the stability of building structures if a discussion occurs.

Whitney, I assume you have a hard time believing 2 planes dropped 3 buildings too? WTC 1 and 2 fell an 1hr and 1.5hrs after they were hit? WTC7 fell later in the day in the exact same fashion 1 and 2 fell. My opinion, they fell way too fast and way too soon after being hit by a plane for me to buy the official story.

I would love to see that museum! I have watched the video multiple times, and, to me, the shot that he took to his right temple came from the front and to the right. His head rocks back and to the left after he took that fatal shot.

These are the kind of opinions I'm interested in hearing from you all.

Quote from: "RyB17"Whitney, I assume you have a hard time believing 2 planes dropped 3 buildings too? WTC 1 and 2 fell an 1hr and 1.5hrs after they were hit? WTC7 fell later in the day in the exact same fashion 1 and 2 fell. My opinion, they fell way too fast and way too soon after being hit by a plane for me to buy the official story.

No, I think they behaved like buildings that had a good portion of their structure knocked out then heated up by fire.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "RyB17"Whitney, I assume you have a hard time believing 2 planes dropped 3 buildings too? WTC 1 and 2 fell an 1hr and 1.5hrs after they were hit? WTC7 fell later in the day in the exact same fashion 1 and 2 fell. My opinion, they fell way too fast and way too soon after being hit by a plane for me to buy the official story.

No, I think they behaved like buildings that had a good portion of their structure knocked out then heated up by fire.

Lol, oh...I'm sorry Whitney, that's why assumtions are the mother of all f*** ups!

I respectfully disagree, because of the time they took to fall after being hit and how fast they actually fell.

Quote from: "RyB17"I respectfully disagree, because of the time they took to fall after being hit and how fast they actually fell.

How fast would you have expected them to fall?

Are you aware that it takes 1 to 4 hours for fireproofing to be burnt off by the fire and that it's not rated for massive explosions?

Are you aware that steel will bend when exposed to heat and that bending is enough to allow for collapse...it doesn't have to break in half or anything like that?

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "RyB17"I respectfully disagree, because of the time they took to fall after being hit and how fast they actually fell.

How fast would you have expected them to fall?

Not at the speed they fell. The building encountered little resistance on its way down.

Are you aware that it takes 1 to 4 hours for fireproofing to be burnt off by the fire and that it's not rated for massive explosions?

I am aware.

Are you aware that steel will bend when exposed to heat and that bending is enough to allow for collapse...it doesn't have to break in half or anything like that?

I know steel will bend when expose to heat. I don't believe the top of the building could fall through the undamaged part of the building that fast.

Quote from: "RyB17"

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "RyB17"I respectfully disagree, because of the time they took to fall after being hit and how fast they actually fell.

How fast would you have expected them to fall?

Not at the speed they fell. The building encountered little resistance on its way down.

Are you aware that it takes 1 to 4 hours for fireproofing to be burnt off by the fire and that it's not rated for massive explosions?

I am aware.

Are you aware that steel will bend when exposed to heat and that bending is enough to allow for collapse...it doesn't have to break in half or anything like that?

I know steel will bend when expose to heat. I don't believe the top of the building could fall through the undamaged part of the building that fast.

What facts and evidence do you base this belief on?

I've found this website very helpful:
Debunking 9/11 (http://www.debunking911.com/)

It exposes a lot of doctored and misrepresented data and images.

Quote from: "RyB17"Not at the speed they fell. The building encountered little resistance on its way down.

I was trying to google the speed of the collapse so I could calculate it against free fall (don't have a stop watch to try to c   and found this nice little graph.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.debunking911.com%2FCollapse3.jpg&hash=c53d9450d2b55695cae1a6f430f99152d8521313)
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm (http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm)

As the link states, the fall time can't be guaranteed accurate because there was a big cloud of dust in the way; it's just meant to show that there is some pretty good reason to not jump on the building fell too quickly band wagon.

Quote from: "Davin"I've found this website very helpful:
Debunking 9/11 (http://www.debunking911.com/)

It exposes a lot of doctored and misrepresented data and images.

Cool, I'll check it out. Thanks.

Quote from: "RyB17"Whitney, I assume you have a hard time believing 2 planes dropped 3 buildings too? WTC 1 and 2 fell an 1hr and 1.5hrs after they were hit? WTC7 fell later in the day in the exact same fashion 1 and 2 fell. My opinion, they fell way too fast and way too soon after being hit by a plane for me to buy the official story.

As an engineer, I am more prone to accept the USg version of the events surrounding the collapse from material-technical viewpoint alone than any theory stating that the buildings were demolished by strategically placed explosives.

Wow...

I must say, I have been humbled. I'm actually ashamed of myself. I am proud to call myself a free thinker but in this instance, I became obsessed with conspiracy theories. That blinded me to realizing the real truth. I have learned a valuable lesson. Thanks to you all. Its amazing what a few hours of reading can do to your perception.

Thank you, I stand corrected.

Quote from: "RyB17"Wow...

I must say, I have been humbled. I'm actually ashamed of myself. I am proud to call myself a free thinker but in this instance, I became obsessed with conspiracy theories. That blinded me to realizing the real truth. I have learned a valuable lesson. Thanks to you all. Its amazing what a few hours of reading can do to your perception.

Thank you, I stand corrected.

Well not so much corrected as much as better informed, you found the correction yourself, which is I suppose a very good thing for a free thinking individual to do.

Thanks for the link Davin, I have better ammo now for the crazies out here and my mom.....

Quote from: "KDbeads"Thanks for the link Davin, I have better ammo now for the crazies out here and my mom.....

KD, could you show your mom the site and talk through it with her? Or is she unwilling to open her mind? That site is full of great evidence!

It makes me very happy when I see someone who was fairly certain of a view change their mind because they were exposed to new evidence; wish everyone could do that.  

Quote from: "Whitney"It makes me very happy when I see someone who was fairly certain of a view change their mind because they were exposed to new evidence; wish everyone could do that.  

Some free-thinkers do not put free thinking ahead of standing evidence. That is, indeed, comforting. Free thought is, after all, not the same as holding every possible view as equal standing possibility.

Quote from: "RyB17"

Quote from: "KDbeads"Thanks for the link Davin, I have better ammo now for the crazies out here and my mom.....

KD, could you show your mom the site and talk through it with her? Or is she unwilling to open her mind? That site is full of great evidence!

No, she refuses to read anything or look at a computer screen outside of work.  Right now her favorite CT is the pentagon was blown up with a missile to hide misappropriation of funds.  Her 'proof' is the lack of whole dead bodies laying around in the photos.
Plus, even with her affinity for numbers I don't think she'd understand much of the material mechanics calculations on the site.  But that's her problem, not mine.