Happy Atheist Forum

iSoK

What is your opinion from the Muslim perspective of the terrorist activities carried out in the name of Islam? I ask here as it's not the sort of question I would feel comfortable asking the people that I know at college as it could muddy the waters in my relationship with them, but here you can provide me with a Muslim perspective with no repercussions in the real world.

What do you feel motivates people to take such extreme actions? What do you think people who do this sort of thing feel they will/would/could gain from doing such activities? How would you stop it?

To the other members reading/contributing to this thread I would appreciate it if the thread remained on-topic and does not become a 'Muslim bashing' thread as we are very unlikely to be able to address this issue in real life.

Regards
Chris

I want to add one:

Why don't you(impersonal, refering to majority) let your Allah stand up for itself? (This question would apply to other religious groups as well, but one step at a time...) Why do you think your god needs you to defend its interests?

And while at it: why is it wrong to exercise one's freedom of speech/expression(/thought) in regard to Muhammed? Or rather, why is it more wrong than exercising the same rights against any given living person?

Quote from: "Asmodean"I want to add one:

Why don't you(impersonal, refering to majority) let your Allah stand up for itself? (This question would apply to other religious groups as well, but one step at a time...) Why do you think your god needs you to defend its interests?

And while at it: why is it wrong to exercise one's freedom of speech/expression(/thought) in regard to Muhammed? Or rather, why is it more wrong than exercising the same rights against any given living person?

Ha! I'm first! One question at a time please or iSoK won't know whether he's coming or going!

Well, let me give a small introduction.
There's a verse in the Qur'an often quoted by two groups, to take it as an argument that they are right.

1- The group of people known as terrorists.

2- The group of people diagnosed with Islamophobia.

This is the verse.

[Qur'an - 2:191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

This verse is very controversial, but it's simple to explain. This however, I will do next time, I'm studying for my finals...


@Asmodean, can you be more specific? I'll try to answer your question too at the same time.

Quote from: "iSok"Well, let me give a small introduction.
There's a verse in the Qur'an often quoted by two groups, to take it as an argument that they are right.

1- The group of people known as terrorists.

2- The group of people diagnosed with Islamophobia.

This is the verse.

[Qur'an - 2:191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

This verse is very controversial, but it's simple to explain. This however, I will do next time, I'm studying for my finals...


@Asmodean, can you be more specific? I'll try to answer your question too at the same time.

Thanks for the starter, now go swat for your finals. If you want Whitney can suspend your account until you have finished your finals just drop her a PM with the date you want to be un-banned. The questions here will keep, we aren't going any where  

Quote from: "iSok"@Asmodean, can you be more specific? I'll try to answer your question too at the same time.

Question one:

You* believe your god to be all-powerful (Or at least immensely powerful), yes..? Then why the need to try to, for instance, convince others of its existence? Why not let the big man do the job himself? Do not answer the example, please; I want a general answer. Why does your god need its followers to stand up for it/do its job for it?

Question two:

Some time ago, a newspaper printed some caricatures of Muhammed, which pretty much caused more uproar than a collection of pictures should when presented to sensible people. In the publication's wake, attempts have been made on the lives of the newspaper staff, flags were burned and a lot of hatred was let lose. Additionally, in several Islamic countries, blasphemy against the prophet is punishable by long jail sentences and death.

Why does Muhammed deserve that, exactly? Why is it more wrong to draw him as a pig or with a bomb in his turban than, say, me or the guy next door? (Also, refer to question one in answering this one: why not leave this thing for your god to fix?

*You here refers to Muslims (or other religious groups) in general and is, as such, impersonal.

Quote from: "Asmodean"*You here refers to Muslims (or other religious groups) in general and is, as such, impersonal.

Ah, the impersonal "you." It is one of the worst features of the English language, I think. People always think that I'm talking about them personally. Maybe we should make a new word to replace it.

Quote from: "iSok"Well, let me give a small introduction.
There's a verse in the Qur'an often quoted by two groups, to take it as an argument that they are right.

1- The group of people known as terrorists.

2- The group of people diagnosed with Islamophobia.

This is the verse.

[Qur'an - 2:191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

This verse is very controversial, but it's simple to explain. This however, I will do next time, I'm studying for my finals...


@Asmodean, can you be more specific? I'll try to answer your question too at the same time.

That's understandable. Full context is...

Quote2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

This is probably one reason why Malcom X's approach to the civil rights movement differed so much from Martin Luther King.

Quote from: "Tank"Thanks for the starter, now go swat for your finals. If you want Whitney can suspend your account until you have finished your finals just drop her a PM with the date you want to be un-banned. The questions here will keep, we aren't going any where  

Yup, I even already offered (though more as an ultimatum than the nice way you just put it)

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

Quote from: "Asmodean"*You here refers to Muslims (or other religious groups) in general and is, as such, impersonal.

Ah, the impersonal "you." It is one of the worst features of the English language, I think. People always think that I'm talking about them personally. Maybe we should make a new word to replace it.

Some Maoris I know would say "yous" or "yous fellas", evidently they saw the issue with the English language here as well.

Quote from: "Stevil"Some Maoris I know would say "yous" or "yous fellas", evidently they saw the issue with the English language here as well.

I think that may be a common thing, people of Greek ethnicity often use it, their own comedians seem to emphasise it.

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"Ah, the impersonal "you." It is one of the worst features of the English language, I think. People always think that I'm talking about them personally. Maybe we should make a new word to replace it.

That's the reason for the disclaimers when talking to someone who is not a native English speaker... Some natives don't get it either sometimes, actually.

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

Quote from: "Asmodean"*You here refers to Muslims (or other religious groups) in general and is, as such, impersonal.

Ah, the impersonal "you." It is one of the worst features of the English language, I think. People always think that I'm talking about them personally. Maybe we should make a new word to replace it.

That's been done, it's "y'all"

Quote from: "DJAkuma"

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

Quote from: "Asmodean"*You here refers to Muslims (or other religious groups) in general and is, as such, impersonal.

Ah, the impersonal "you." It is one of the worst features of the English language, I think. People always think that I'm talking about them personally. Maybe we should make a new word to replace it.

That's been done, it's "y'all"

That's not necessarily impersonal, though. It's just plural.

@Tank & Asmodean,

Of course I condemn the terrorists that are doing this.
Killing innocent civilians is absolutely wrong.
Every religion in the world condemns this....

But my answers consists out of mutual understanding and
the explanation WHY it is happening right now.

I shall see whether I'll answer this...the reason might look stupid to you.

But in times like these I don't really feel comfortable discussing a topic like this...while Big Brother is watching.
I might get back to this in the future...
I hope you understand.