Happy Atheist Forum

I am interested to know what a religious experience is.

Who on this forum has had one?
What was it like?
Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?
How detailed was the experience?
How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?
Was it about something else other than a god?
Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?
Did it make you convert?
Do you still think about it?

How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?
How many religious experiences do individual people have?
Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?
Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?
Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?
Is there peer pressure to have one?
Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?

Hell if I know. I never had one, and I probably never will. I think that's due to my brain not as willing to make up bullshit.

Nothing here.

Although I have witnessed some very extreme human psychological behaviour that could be classify as 'out of body' type stuff. I can confirm it's almost always with people who are very sensitive to their own 'self' and can become incredibly 'inward looking' and divorced from their body fuelled by endorphins and other manipulations of brain chemistry.

Some people have the ability to manipulate perceptions of reality through extreme physicality and go to a 'place' within themselves which is not normally accessible to them. Some do it via meditation some via other routes. It is odd to witness a person 'disappear' into a different realm of consciousness.

Quote from: "Tank"Nothing here.

Although I have witnessed some very extreme human psychological behaviour that could be classify as 'out of body' type stuff. I can confirm it's almost always with people who are very sensitive to their own 'self' and can become incredibly 'inward looking' and divorced from their body fuelled by endorphins and other manipulations of brain chemistry.

Some people have the ability to manipulate perceptions of reality through extreme physicality and go to a 'place' within themselves which is not normally accessible to them. Some do it via meditation some via other routes. It is odd to witness a person 'disappear' into a different realm of consciousness.

Sounds fun. Maybe I should try to do that. Meditating might work.

Quote from: "Tank"It is odd to witness a person 'disappear' into a different realm of consciousness.

What did it look like? Was the person just staring at nothing, or were they making noises, speaking or shaking or other?

Quote from: "Stevil"

Quote from: "Tank"It is odd to witness a person 'disappear' into a different realm of consciousness.

What did it look like? Was the person just staring at nothing, or were they making noises, speaking or shaking or other?

It varies from person to person. Some just go distant and their eyes glaze over. Others can make noises. Others get quite scared and very upset, crying sometimes as they are scared they can't get back into themselves. Some cry when they come back, some are just serene and need to be looked after for a few minutes while they come around from the experience.

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"

Quote from: "Tank"Nothing here.

Although I have witnessed some very extreme human psychological behaviour that could be classify as 'out of body' type stuff. I can confirm it's almost always with people who are very sensitive to their own 'self' and can become incredibly 'inward looking' and divorced from their body fuelled by endorphins and other manipulations of brain chemistry.

Some people have the ability to manipulate perceptions of reality through extreme physicality and go to a 'place' within themselves which is not normally accessible to them. Some do it via meditation some via other routes. It is odd to witness a person 'disappear' into a different realm of consciousness.

Sounds fun. Maybe I should try to do that. Meditating might work.

Hunting Tigers is supposed to fun, but you wouldn't catch me doing it without an experienced guide.

Quote from: "Tank"It varies from person to person. Some just go distant and their eyes glaze over. Others can make noises. Others get quite scared and very upset, crying sometimes as they are scared they can't get back into themselves. Some cry when they come back, some are just serene and need to be looked after for a few minutes while they come around from the experience.

That would be surreal. How come you have witnessed so many? Your meditation instructor must be very good???

Quote from: "Stevil"

Quote from: "Tank"It varies from person to person. Some just go distant and their eyes glaze over. Others can make noises. Others get quite scared and very upset, crying sometimes as they are scared they can't get back into themselves. Some cry when they come back, some are just serene and need to be looked after for a few minutes while they come around from the experience.

That would be surreal. How come you have witnessed so many? Your meditation instructor must be very good???

I was involved in that sort of thing for a few years. Due to the fact that we have minors on the forum I'm not going to go into details in case it give people ideas that they may come to regret.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Stevil"

Quote from: "Tank"It varies from person to person. Some just go distant and their eyes glaze over. Others can make noises. Others get quite scared and very upset, crying sometimes as they are scared they can't get back into themselves. Some cry when they come back, some are just serene and need to be looked after for a few minutes while they come around from the experience.

That would be surreal. How come you have witnessed so many? Your meditation instructor must be very good???

I was involved in that sort of thing for a few years. Due to the fact that we have minors on the forum I'm not going to go into details in case it give people ideas that they may come to regret.

Ell oh ell.

hypnotism?

It's the interpretation of the 'altered state' that's at the root of the issue. The altered state may be hypnotically induced or using a mind altering substance, meditation, whatever. But in a superstitious environment the motivations are often to attribute the effects to external forces such as spirits, jinn or gods of some sort.

I once ate the remains of a flying spaghetti monster... it was good.

Quote from: "Stevil"Who on this forum has had one?

No idea.

QuoteHow do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?

Those who hear voices in their head tend to describe them as seeming real. I don't think it's about knowing, but intuition. Such experiences and their proposed sources can be intuitively obvious to the one experiencing them.

QuoteDid it make you convert?

I suppose it would convert some... Me, I'd just start taking pills.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Stevil"Who on this forum has had one?

No idea.

QuoteHow do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?

Those who hear voices in their head tend to describe them as seeming real. I don't think it's about knowing, but intuition. Such experiences and their proposed sources can be intuitively obvious to the one experiencing them.

QuoteDid it make you convert?

I suppose it would convert some... Me, I'd just start taking pills.

Or possibly stop?  

Quote from: "Tank"Or possibly stop?  :eek:

No, can't stop the pills.   Bad idea.

Quote from: "Stevil"I am interested to know what a religious experience is.

Who on this forum has had one?
What was it like?
Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?
How detailed was the experience?
How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?
Was it about something else other than a god?
Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?
Did it make you convert?
Do you still think about it?

How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?
How many religious experiences do individual people have?
Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?
Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?
Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?
Is there peer pressure to have one?
Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?

I'm not comfortable with the term "religious" experience, but when I had mine it was the most profound thing I've ever experienced. I could see things so clearly, and I could really understand myself, other people, human nature, reality, and my senses were heightened. It was frightening but not in a dangerous kind of way, it's hard to explain. I felt a sense of bliss that I've never experienced before or after. It's like every positive emotion all rolled into one.

Quote from: "pilchardo"

Quote from: "Stevil"I am interested to know what a religious experience is.

Who on this forum has had one?
What was it like?
Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?
How detailed was the experience?
How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?
Was it about something else other than a god?
Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?
Did it make you convert?
Do you still think about it?

How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?
How many religious experiences do individual people have?
Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?
Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?
Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?
Is there peer pressure to have one?
Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?

I'm not comfortable with the term "religious" experience, but when I had mine it was the most profound thing I've ever experienced. I could see things so clearly, and I could really understand myself, other people, human nature, reality, and my senses were heightened. It was frightening but not in a dangerous kind of way, it's hard to explain. I felt a sense of bliss that I've never experienced before or after. It's like every positive emotion all rolled into one.

that was the ecstasy pilchardo.

I've never taken ecstacy.

well then how do you validate your experience as authentic religious experience?

Well, I have different 'situations' I guess.

Just a recent event to adress.

Two weeks ago, I failed for a test, was my own fault.
I didn't study well since it wasn't really my favourite subject, and started too late.
So when I saw my grade, I was a bit dissapointed.

And for a moment I had this thought in my mind, I know it's ridiculous

'Oh God, I could have passed, this is nothing for You, why didn't You help me?'
The thought quickly dissapeared.

So when this happened, I surfed to an Islamic website with the intention to read a debate, there was a debate
about politics. So while I was reading a new reply from an user I didn't know.
I came to the end of that reply, and then I noticed his signature at the bottom.


One day Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it and he asked the Bedouin, “Why don’t you tie down your camel?” The Bedouin answered, “I put my trust in Allah.” The Prophet then said, “Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah” (At-Tirmidhi). DO YOUR PART FIRST

It took a moment before I realised it. From the thought towards reading that reply, I think it was a matter of 10 seconds.
I started to laugh after realising it.
 Could have been coincidence, I don't know.


Some people convert after certain events that cannot be explained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J5_VETwfew&feature=related

Watch it from 1 min 40 seconds, he tells his story then, in case you are interested of course.

Quote from: "pilchardo"I'm not comfortable with the term "religious" experience, but when I had mine it was the most profound thing I've ever experienced. I could see things so clearly, and I could really understand myself, other people, human nature, reality, and my senses were heightened. It was frightening but not in a dangerous kind of way, it's hard to explain. I felt a sense of bliss that I've never experienced before or after. It's like every positive emotion all rolled into one.

Sounds very interesting. Did you get any lasting insights to anything? How long did it last for?
Did you change as a person after this incident. I presume some of the insights were regards to yourself, how you behave etc, so maybe you behave differently since???
Did you see this as affirmation of your religious beliefs or unrelated?

Quote from: "iSok"
One day Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it and he asked the Bedouin, “Why don’t you tie down your camel?” The Bedouin answered, “I put my trust in Allah.” The Prophet then said, “Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah” (At-Tirmidhi). DO YOUR PART FIRST

I think the Christians say "God helps those who help themselves"
Most Atheists would encourage this kind of thinking.

Quote from: "Stevil"

Quote from: "pilchardo"I'm not comfortable with the term "religious" experience, but when I had mine it was the most profound thing I've ever experienced. I could see things so clearly, and I could really understand myself, other people, human nature, reality, and my senses were heightened. It was frightening but not in a dangerous kind of way, it's hard to explain. I felt a sense of bliss that I've never experienced before or after. It's like every positive emotion all rolled into one.

Sounds very interesting. Did you get any lasting insights to anything? How long did it last for?
Did you change as a person after this incident. I presume some of the insights were regards to yourself, how you behave etc, so maybe you behave differently since???
Did you see this as affirmation of your religious beliefs or unrelated?

Yes it did, it changed the way I view everything. It's hard to say how long it lasted but I think it may have lasted about 4 days or so, on and off. I now find that I view myself differently and I'm more in touch with my emotions and thoughts, much more than before. When I feel any emotion I feel it more vividly, and intensely, and I feel like I can harness it better. I feel more in control and more at peace with life. One thing I do now that I didn't do before is that I try to avoid clutter. Cluttered thoughts, cluttered actions, I'm more streamlined if you like. And a lot more but if I tried to cover it I'd probably need pages and pages to describe it.

Have you had something similar yourself?

Quote from: "pilchardo"Yes it did, it changed the way I view everything. It's hard to say how long it lasted but I think it may have lasted about 4 days or so, on and off. I now find that I view myself differently and I'm more in touch with my emotions and thoughts, much more than before. When I feel any emotion I feel it more vividly, and intensely, and I feel like I can harness it better. I feel more in control and more at peace with life. One thing I do now that I didn't do before is that I try to avoid clutter. Cluttered thoughts, cluttered actions, I'm more streamlined if you like. And a lot more but if I tried to cover it I'd probably need pages and pages to describe it.

Have you had something similar yourself?

No I haven't had a profound unexplainable experience. I have a friend who I was talking to one day, she was a Christian and although I do not generally talk about religion, the topic came up. I asked her how she came to pick Christianity above other religions, she said that she had had an experience. I didn't delve into it any further as I thought it would have been difficult for her to explain and I may come across too sarcastic in my responses. On this site people have also mentioned religious experiences so I just wanted to get an understanding of what they are.

BTW All the rest of her family are Christians too, and they all belong to the same church. So you can see why it might have been difficult for me to see how objective her experience was

Quote from: "pilchardo"

Quote from: "Stevil"

Quote from: "pilchardo"I'm not comfortable with the term "religious" experience, but when I had mine it was the most profound thing I've ever experienced. I could see things so clearly, and I could really understand myself, other people, human nature, reality, and my senses were heightened. It was frightening but not in a dangerous kind of way, it's hard to explain. I felt a sense of bliss that I've never experienced before or after. It's like every positive emotion all rolled into one.

Sounds very interesting. Did you get any lasting insights to anything? How long did it last for?
Did you change as a person after this incident. I presume some of the insights were regards to yourself, how you behave etc, so maybe you behave differently since???
Did you see this as affirmation of your religious beliefs or unrelated?

Yes it did, it changed the way I view everything. It's hard to say how long it lasted but I think it may have lasted about 4 days or so, on and off. I now find that I view myself differently and I'm more in touch with my emotions and thoughts, much more than before. When I feel any emotion I feel it more vividly, and intensely, and I feel like I can harness it better. I feel more in control and more at peace with life. One thing I do now that I didn't do before is that I try to avoid clutter. Cluttered thoughts, cluttered actions, I'm more streamlined if you like. And a lot more but if I tried to cover it I'd probably need pages and pages to describe it.

Have you had something similar yourself?

May I ask whether you follow a religion or not?

Stevil, you don't know what you're missing. If it ever happens to you, count yourself lucky. Of course, some people might call you crazy, stupid, a liar or mentally ill or deluded but that's not how it is. Words can't describe it, it has to be experienced to be understood.

Isok, no but I do believe in something, I don't usually refer to it as god although I don't object to the term. So no, I don't actually follow any religions as such. How about yourself?

I'm going for the 72 virgins in heaven :D
I never understood why Muslims even pray in the streets sometimes, and don't mind getting funny looks.
When you get that feeling, nothing else matters.

Quote from: "iSok"I'm going for the 72 virgins in heaven

Unless you're gay, I hope for your sake they're women.

@Pilchardo: What exactly happened? Can you be more specific?

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"

Quote from: "iSok"I'm going for the 72 virgins in heaven

Unless you're gay, I hope for your sake they're women.

@Pilchardo: What exactly happened? Can you be more specific?

I'm sorry Ls, I don't intend to derail this topic.

While we are on the subject. The myth about suicide and you get 72 virgins is a fabricated lie...
The Qur'an condems suicide, so does the Hadith.
The only source of this myth is the following 'saying'.

Which is considered by Islamic scholars as fabricated (something the Prophet never said, since there are no witnesses).

The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: “The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a [Yemen]“

Quote from: "iSok"I'm going for the 72 virgins in heaven :D
I never understood why Muslims even pray in the streets sometimes, and don't mind getting funny looks.
When you get that feeling, nothing else matters.

True. I don't pray myself, but sometimes I go into a sort of trance. Before this started happening I would have laughed at the idea but now that I've experienced it I know better and I understand now that there's so much more to consciousness than our "everyday" experience. It's like a cross between being hypnotized, stoned, and having an orgasm (I can't believe I'm telling you this but there you go). It's like being fully awake and aware, and at peace with everything. And when it's over and you go back to what we naively call "normal" you realise that "normal" is just a fraction of what there is to perceive. I know that there are dimensions of reality well beyond what we see every day and I know that this life is just a step in a journey. I wish I could experience it all the time but at the same time I'm aware of the need to go through this particular lifetime in a "grounded" state too, if that makes sense. So when people ridicule it (which they do, as you'd expect) I don't find that it bothers me at all because I know what I know and even if I could prove it I would deliberately refrain from doing so because it's an experience to be had, not to be demonstrated.

Quote from: "pilchardo"

Quote from: "iSok"I'm going for the 72 virgins in heaven :D
I never understood why Muslims even pray in the streets sometimes, and don't mind getting funny looks.
When you get that feeling, nothing else matters.

True. I don't pray myself, but sometimes I go into a sort of trance. Before this started happening I would have laughed at the idea but now that I've experienced it I know better and I understand now that there's so much more to consciousness than our "everyday" experience. It's like a cross between being hypnotized, stoned, and having an orgasm (I can't believe I'm telling you this but there you go). It's like being fully awake and aware, and at peace with everything. And when it's over and you go back to what we naively call "normal" you realise that "normal" is just a fraction of what there is to perceive. I know that there are dimensions of reality well beyond what we see every day and I know that this life is just a step in a journey. I wish I could experience it all the time but at the same time I'm aware of the need to go through this particular lifetime in a "grounded" state too, if that makes sense. So when people ridicule it (which they do, as you'd expect) I don't find that it bothers me at all because I know what I know and even if I could prove it I would deliberately refrain from doing so because it's an experience to be had, not to be demonstrated.

Is there any reason why there can't be a natural explanation for those types of feelings, instead of invoking the supernatural?

I'm not denying that these types of experiences don't exist. I'm just saying that it seems a bit childish, primitive, and downright ludicrous to use these as proof for any type of supernatural entity (not that I'm saying you are, as you're obviously not trying to convert anyone).

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"

Quote from: "pilchardo"

Quote from: "iSok"I'm going for the 72 virgins in heaven :D
I never understood why Muslims even pray in the streets sometimes, and don't mind getting funny looks.
When you get that feeling, nothing else matters.

True. I don't pray myself, but sometimes I go into a sort of trance. Before this started happening I would have laughed at the idea but now that I've experienced it I know better and I understand now that there's so much more to consciousness than our "everyday" experience. It's like a cross between being hypnotized, stoned, and having an orgasm (I can't believe I'm telling you this but there you go). It's like being fully awake and aware, and at peace with everything. And when it's over and you go back to what we naively call "normal" you realise that "normal" is just a fraction of what there is to perceive. I know that there are dimensions of reality well beyond what we see every day and I know that this life is just a step in a journey. I wish I could experience it all the time but at the same time I'm aware of the need to go through this particular lifetime in a "grounded" state too, if that makes sense. So when people ridicule it (which they do, as you'd expect) I don't find that it bothers me at all because I know what I know and even if I could prove it I would deliberately refrain from doing so because it's an experience to be had, not to be demonstrated.

Is there any reason why there can't be a natural explanation for those types of feelings, instead of invoking the supernatural?

I'm not denying that these types of experiences don't exist. I'm just saying that it seems a bit childish, primitive, and downright ludicrous to use these as proof for any type of supernatural entity (not that I'm saying you are, as you're obviously not trying to convert anyone).

That's the thing, I'm not trying to prove anything nor would I if I could. It simply doesn't matter whether others believe it or not. By the way are you saying that you don't deny that these experiences exist, or don't exist?

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"

Quote from: "pilchardo"

Quote from: "iSok"I'm going for the 72 virgins in heaven :D
I never understood why Muslims even pray in the streets sometimes, and don't mind getting funny looks.
When you get that feeling, nothing else matters.

True. I don't pray myself, but sometimes I go into a sort of trance. Before this started happening I would have laughed at the idea but now that I've experienced it I know better and I understand now that there's so much more to consciousness than our "everyday" experience. It's like a cross between being hypnotized, stoned, and having an orgasm (I can't believe I'm telling you this but there you go). It's like being fully awake and aware, and at peace with everything. And when it's over and you go back to what we naively call "normal" you realise that "normal" is just a fraction of what there is to perceive. I know that there are dimensions of reality well beyond what we see every day and I know that this life is just a step in a journey. I wish I could experience it all the time but at the same time I'm aware of the need to go through this particular lifetime in a "grounded" state too, if that makes sense. So when people ridicule it (which they do, as you'd expect) I don't find that it bothers me at all because I know what I know and even if I could prove it I would deliberately refrain from doing so because it's an experience to be had, not to be demonstrated.

Is there any reason why there can't be a natural explanation for those types of feelings, instead of invoking the supernatural?

I'm not denying that these types of experiences don't exist. I'm just saying that it seems a bit childish, primitive, and downright ludicrous to use these as proof for any type of supernatural entity (not that I'm saying you are, as you're obviously not trying to convert anyone).

That's true Pilchardo, I've tried to convert Legendarysandwich. And it will happen, he just doesn't acknowledge it

I think scientists would say, that there are certain chemicals doing that, which causes those feelings.
That those chemicals at particular time are injected into your blood, and cause certain reactionsin your brain.

Quote from: "pilchardo"That's the thing, I'm not trying to prove anything nor would I if I could. It simply doesn't matter whether others believe it or not. By the way are you saying that you don't deny that these experiences exist, or don't exist?

Whoops, typo. I meant to say that I don't deny they exist.

What I'm asking is: do you believe your experiences have anything at all to do with something supernatural?

Quote from: "iSok"That's true Pilchardo, I've tried to convert Legendarysandwich. And it will happen, he just doesn't acknowledge it :P  I don't think I'm going to become a Muslim anytime soon.

QuoteI think scientists would say, that there are certain chemicals doing that, which causes those feelings.
That those chemicals at particular time are injected into your blood, and cause certain reactionsin your brain.

Well, everything in your brain is chemicals and reactions.

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich":D


I'm curious about the combination of those chemicals.
For example how does the brain create 'hope' or 'ambition'.

Quote from: "iSok"

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich":D


I'm curious about the combination of those chemicals.
For example how does the brain create 'hope' or 'ambition'.

The same way it does everything else. I'm not a scientist, so I can't explain the specifics, but if you really want to know how, I can try to find an article for you.

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"

Quote from: "iSok"

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich":D


I'm curious about the combination of those chemicals.
For example how does the brain create 'hope' or 'ambition'.

The same way it does everything else. I'm not a scientist, so I can't explain the specifics, but if you really want to know how, I can try to find an article for you.

Sure, that would be kind.


However, someone needs to bann me, and my IP.
I have an important exam on friday, I promised myself I would get up at 06:00, while it's 03:00 now.

Don't just bann my account, also bann my IP if that's possible..
This forum is killing me

sleep well.