I want to find out what people think of this. Its an excerpt from the flood myth in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is from sometime between 3,000 BCE and 2,000 BCE.
It's startlingly similar to the OT story of Noah's Ark, but the story has a few differences (oh, and the hero isnt Noah, its Utnapishtim:
'So the gods agreed to exterminate mankind. Enlil did this, but Ea because of his oath warned me in a dream. He whispered their words to my house of reeds...'Tear down your house, I say and build a boat. These are the measurements of her barque as you shall build her: let her beam equal her length, let her deck be roofed like the vault that covers the abyss; then take up into the boat the seed of all living creatures.'
When I had understood I said to my lord 'behold, all that you have commanded i will honour and perform, but how shall i answer the people, the city, the elders?'. Then Ea opened his mouth and said to me, his servant, 'Tell them all this, i have learnt that Enlil is wrathful against me, i dare no longer walk in his land or live in his city; i will go down to the gulf to dwell with Ea my lord...
On the fifth day I laid the keel...the ground space was one acre, each side of the deck measured 120 cubits, making a square. I built six decks below, seven in all...on the seventh day the boat was complete...
...the Rider of the storm sent down the rain. I looked out at the weather and it was terrible...I handed the tiller to Pazur-Amurri the steersman, with the navigation and the care of the whole boat.
With the first light of dawn a black cloud came from the horizon; it thundere
d within where Adad, lord of the storm was riding. In front, over hill and plain Shullat and Hanish, heralds of the storm, led on. Then the gods of the abyss rose up; Nergal pulled out the dams of the nether waters, Nunurta the war-lord threw down the dykes, and the seven judges of hell, the Annunaki, raised their torches, lighting the land with their livid flame. A stupor of despair went up to heaven when the god of the storm turned daylight to darkness...even the gods were terrified at the flood..when the seventh day dawned the storm from the south subsided...
...Fourteen leagues distant there appeared a mountain, and there the boat grounded; on the mountain of Nisir the boat held fast...when the seventh day dawned i loosed a dove and let her go. She flew away, but finding no resting place she returned. Then i loosed a swallow, and she flew away, but finding no resting place she returned. I loosed a raven, she saw that the waters had retreated, she ate, she flew around, she cawed, and she did not come back.
...Thus the gods took me and placed me here to live at the mouth of the rivers'
So what do people think about different cultures having the same myth, but with different characters and theological standpoints?
Since alot of cultures and traditions have the same narrative (even the Mayans, I think [wil have to research this again] had a similar ark story) kind of leads me to believe the event occured in history. Compared to the Genesis account, basically Genesis is a book the demythologizes certain myths and traditions going on at the time. Whoever authored it is saying that God is doing this rather than gods or some other interpretation.
But the Flood story itself prefigures Christ, so that holds more meaning to me than if it was a factual account or if it derived itself from a cultural source. It's an interesting passage you show, but you have a link to that?
Hmmm..interesting what you said about the Mayans having a flood myth. Looked it up. Maya Creation Myths at www.crystalinks.com (http://www.crystalinks.com) says:
'The Popol Vuh, the sacred book of the Maya, contains within its creation story a tale of the destruction of the first beings by a flood. This flood differs from others in that it is not a punishment, but rather a remedy for a faulty creation. The Feathered Serpent first created man from mud. These creatures were a failure; they couldn't see, they dissolved when it rained, etc. So the god broke them up and tried again. "This time he made men out of wood. They were better than the mud-men. They could walk and talk; they had many children, built many houses, but they had no minds nor souls nor hearts. The Feathered Serpent - Quetzalcoatl was disappointed with what he had created, so he sent a great flood to cleanse the earth of his mistake. '
Clearly, this story has none of the correlative details of the Mesopotamian myth and the biblical one. The only things in common are a flood and that one of the gods decided it should be so.
Im much more interested in how you would explain the similarity of the stories of the middle east, with different characters and gods.
Besides, accepting the Mayan myth in argument entails believing in a worldwide flood, and that the descendents of Noah/Utnapishtim travelled to South America sometime after it.
So much for the Mayans. But in what sense is the OT demythologising anything? Havent you said before you believe in only some of the bible, and therefore see it all as potential myth?
I havent got instant messenger or anything, but thanks for the offer, ill look into it.
Oh, and what do you mean 'prefigures'? Sounds to me that you see if you see the OT as a literary work, there really isnt much stopping you from considering the NT as an extension of that literary work.
Best wishes
I really do like this forum. It's so much more civilised than the one with the baying masses on the Richard Dawkins site.
QuoteIt's an interesting passage you show, but you have a link to that?
I actually misread this as 'have you a link to chat' (i really must stop being on this forum at 6am...)
The answer is no, its from a book (yes, i can hear the gasping and 'well i never's from here')
Its called 'the epic of gilgamesh', penguin classics, translation and introduction by NK Sandars, 1972 edition. It really is excellent and you are free to borrow it since you only live down the road.
So it rained everywhere on earth for 40 days and nights, but where did the water come from, and where did it go?
Did god point his [strike:38ay599c]heavy[/strike:38ay599c] deity duty hair-dryer at the poles to cause the rain?
I don't know how he got the water back to the poles so quick though.
My theory is he put a big balloon in the ocean and tied it down with god string.
To compensate for the displaced water he sucked water into balloons in the sky, you can call them clouds.
Then he did his forty days and nights thing, and oceans rose.
When he was sure everything was good and drowned, he poked a hole in his ocean balloon allowing sea levels to fall.
I'm planning an expedition to find remnants of the lost balloons, if anyone wants to contribute just let me know.
I wonder if I could get a job at Ark Park.
Here's a very long list of flood accounts (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html).
Quote from: "Voter"Here's a very long list of flood accounts (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html).
So that's how many people not mentioned in the bible that received divine revelation to build a boat because of a huge world ending flood? I mean wasn't the bible pretty clear that eight people were the only righteous ones worth saving?
What sounds more reasonable to me is that some floods happened, people over exaggerated a flood into a world wide event (despite no one from then actually knowing how big the world was or how much water it would take to do so), and let cook for several centuries/millennia.
Quote from: "Davin"Quote from: "Voter"Here's a very long list of flood accounts (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html).
So that's how many people not mentioned in the bible that received divine revelation to build a boat because of a huge world ending flood? I mean wasn't the bible pretty clear that eight people were the only righteous ones worth saving?
What sounds more reasonable to me is that some floods happened, people over exaggerated a flood into a world wide event (despite no one from then actually knowing how big the world was or how much water it would take to do so), and let cook for several centuries/millennia.
This. Floods happen everywhere, stories get told about the local flood, as time passes the story gets more and more exaggerated, and eventually it is a world wide flood. Throw in the question of why the flood happened and it becomes a warning or judgment sent by the local deity or deities.
Quote from: "Davin"Quote from: "Voter"Here's a very long list of flood accounts (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html).
So that's how many people not mentioned in the bible that received divine revelation to build a boat because of a huge world ending flood? I mean wasn't the bible pretty clear that eight people were the only righteous ones worth saving?
You seem to be ignorant of Genesis. After the flood, all people were descended from Noah, and all lived in the same place. So, they all had knowledge of the flood. After the tower of Babel, God scattered the people around the world and confused their languages. Then, the flood account was modified over time in each culture, and lost in some. So, the ubiquity of flood legends is consistent with Genesis.
QuoteWhat sounds more reasonable to me is that some floods happened, people over exaggerated a flood into a world wide event (despite no one from then actually knowing how big the world was or how much water it would take to do so), and let cook for several centuries/millennia.
I find it hard to accept that flood myths arose independently in so many cultures, including many where flooding was not a real threat.
Quote from: "Voter"Quote from: "Davin"Quote from: "Voter"Here's a very long list of flood accounts (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html).
So that's how many people not mentioned in the bible that received divine revelation to build a boat because of a huge world ending flood? I mean wasn't the bible pretty clear that eight people were the only righteous ones worth saving?
You seem to be ignorant of Genesis. After the flood, all people were descended from Noah, and all lived in the same place. So, they all had knowledge of the flood. After the tower of Babel, God scattered the people around the world and confused their languages. Then, the flood account was modified over time in each culture, and lost in some. So, the ubiquity of flood legends is consistent with Genesis.
You seem to be ignorant of when the stories can be verified vs. when the earliest copy of Genesis can be verified. Another thing you seem to be ignorant on is the cultures that existed outside of what the bible talks about, cultures that predate the bible, cultures with their own history and fairy tales.
Quote from: "Voter"QuoteWhat sounds more reasonable to me is that some floods happened, people over exaggerated a flood into a world wide event (despite no one from then actually knowing how big the world was or how much water it would take to do so), and let cook for several centuries/millennia.
I find it hard to accept that flood myths arose independently in so many cultures, including many where flooding was not a real threat.
What you have difficulty accepting does not matter to me. Floods happened pretty much everywhere, even where I am in a desert it's not too many years between floods. People very often exaggerate. People get things wrong and people make things up to fill in gaps. All these things are common and do happen. I do not see how anyone can deny that these things are common occurrences.
What is uncommon, what is extraordinary and requires extraordinary evidence, is a world wide flood. For which there is no supporting evidence.
There atually was an interesting documentary about this a little while back.
The basic conclusion of it was that the "world flood" might be an event that happned in stone age, at Black Sea. Actually, it was the birth of the Blacl Sea. You can find a more detailed explenation about it in here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory).
In the documentry they concluded that
a) there was evidence that the Black Sea was formed in a large flood like event that without a doubt effected all the people in the area.
b) there was evidence of stone age habitaion in the are where this all happened.
Also, I couldn't find any vids about it, but there was this blog (http://billboushkacf.blogspot.com/2008/05/noahs-great-flood-history-channel-mega.html) that tells about the program.
Oh, and Atlantis? Ever heard about Santorini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini)?
[youtube:231q4wl2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5jUJh42qYE[/youtube:231q4wl2]
[youtube:231q4wl2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR9BjZcInr0[/youtube:231q4wl2]
[youtube:231q4wl2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-qEMwZu2eI[/youtube:231q4wl2]
[youtube:231q4wl2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRIXMxA4UxI[/youtube:231q4wl2]
[youtube:231q4wl2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHJ7n4whPjw[/youtube:231q4wl2]
Voter wrote:
QuoteI find it hard to accept that flood myths arose independently in so many cultures, including many where flooding was not a real threat.
'What then are the origins of a political society and how does it first come into being? From time to time, as a result of floods, plagues, failures of crops or other similar causes, there occurs a catastrophic destruction of the human race, in which all knowledge of the arts and social institutions is lost. Such disasters, tradition tells us, have often befallen mankind, and must reasonably be expected to recur. Then in the course of time the population renews itself from the survivors as if from seeds, men increase once more in numbers and, like other animals, proceed to form herds.'
Polybius, On the Forms of States, from his book 'The Rise of the Roman Empire'.
Oddly enough, this was written not in modern times, but in the 2nd Century BCE.
I'm really impressed by the level of debate my first topic has produced.
Quote from: "Voter"After the flood,
Which, by the way, never happened.
Quoteall people were descended from Noah, and all lived in the same place.
That would be a bit problematic, since that would constitute a catastrophic (i.e. terminal) population bottleneck, in which diversity would be reduced beyond the ability of the species to survive beyond a few generations, as all alleles would very rapidly go to fixation, and you'd end up with duelling banjos in short order and extinction not long after that. A brief perusal of the scientific literature regarding minimum viable population should be enough to knock that nonsense on the head.
QuoteSo, they all had knowledge of the flood. After the tower of Babel, God scattered the people around the world and confused their languages. Then, the flood account was modified over time in each culture, and lost in some. So, the ubiquity of flood legends is consistent with Genesis.
What they aren't consistent with, however, is reality.
I have a question:
What were the Egyptians doing digging canals when they were under 9 km of water?
Quote from: "Davin"What is uncommon, what is extraordinary and requires extraordinary evidence, is a world wide flood. For which there is no supporting evidence.
It's worse than that. There is overwhelming evidence falsifying the idea of a global flood, not least in the form of the cichlid fish populations in lakes Victoria, Malawi and Tanganyika. The fact that they even exist makes the idea of a global flood laughable in the extreme, as they simply couldn't survive such an event, yet there they are.
There is a wealth of other evidence as well.
If you want to research some of that, as well as being subject to one of the most truly hilarious threads in the history of internet fora, allow me to introduce you to the Great Flud Debate Peanut Gallery Thread (http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=10678) from the, now sadly defunct, Richard Dawkins forum.
WARNING: This is 8,611 posts of some mind-numbing stupidity, along with some genuinely side-splitting but informative rebuttals. If you have the stomach for it, you should settle down with a bottle of your favourite tipple and enjoy.
Edit: The link in the OP of the peanut gallery thread is broken, so here's a link to the actual debate (http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10675).
Thanks, hackenslash, I've never come across an actual debate on the matter, just lots of unrelated information the shows that there could not have been a world wide flood, let alone one about 4000 years ago. I'll be reading through that debate.
QuoteThanks, hackenslash, I've never come across an actual debate on the matter, just lots of unrelated information the shows that there could not have been a world wide flood, let alone one about 4000 years ago. I'll be reading through that debate.
Same here.
Mt Everast would have to have been submerged, after all we don't want any Nepalese escaping.
7000 metres divided by 40 days, that's 175 metres of rain each day.
8,700 inches if you prefer.
I probably should knock off 5% for land above sea level, but still that's serious rain.
There's a reason why Flood myths exist from all over the world, even from places where flooding never occurred, and it's that the Flood myths are allegorical. They're to do with the movement of the stars in the heavens over long periods of time, maybe linked to the idea of the Great or Platonic Year. It may be that the ancients believed that this Great Year of the movement of the stars due to precession had a summer and a winter, just like our years. During the summer the world was cleansed or destroyed by a great conflagration, and during the winter by a great flood. All people share the night sky, hence the same allegorical myth could be found in places where floods didn't historically occur.
Although the earliest flood myths known are from Mesopotamia, the Greek variants are very useful for decoding the myth. The two main Greek flood myths were that of Deucalion (very similar to the Noah account) and Atlantis (the flood myth created by Plato). I always wonder why people try to find a historical basis for Atlantis (like the eruption of Thera) as Plato makes it clear the story is allegorical / mythological, and not historical. He clearly mentions the cycle of Flood and Conflagration;
‘There have been and will be many different calamities to destroy mankind, the greatest of them by fire and water…Your story of how Phaethon, child of the sun, harnessed his father’s chariot, but was unable to guide it along his father’s course and so burnt up things on the earth and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt, is a mythical version of the truth that there is at long intervals a variation in the course of the heavenly bodies and a consequent widespread destruction by fire of things on the earth…on the other hand the gods purge the earth with a deluge.’
The 2nd Century philosopher Celsus also mentioned this cycle in his brilliant critique of Christianity called 'On the True Doctrine' (which should be compulsory reading for all atheists) when talking about the Christians belief in the Second Coming / Final Judgement;
'They postulate, for example, that their Messiah will return as a conqueror on the clouds, and that he will rain fire upon the earth in his battle with the princes of the air, and that the whole world, with the exception of Christians, will be consumed with fire. An interesting idea â€" and hardly an original one. The idea came from the Greeks and others â€" namely, that after cycles of years and because of the fortuitous conjunctions of certain stars there are conflagrations and floods, and that after the last flood, in the time of Deucalion, the cycle demands a conflagration in accordance with the alternating succession of the universe. This is responsible for the silly opinion of some Christians that God will come down and rain fire upon the earth.’
The cycle of Flood and Conflagration is also mentioned in the Corpus Hermeticum;
‘God the creator, when he looked upon the things that happened, established his design, which is good, against the disorder. Sometimes he submerged it in a great flood, at other times he burned it in a searing fire.’
I'm really amazed that people still try to explain the Flood by looking for an actual historical event. It seems the modern mind isn't imaginative enough to think in terms of mythology and allegory!
Reprinted here for your viewing pleasure...from the Noah's Ark sticky in this forum.
Written by Marty Leipzig:
First - the global flood supposedly (Scripturally) covered the planet and Mount Everest is 8,848 meters tall. The diameter of the Earth at the equator, on the other hand, is 12,756.8 km. All we have to do is calculate the volume of water to fill a sphere with a radius of the Earth plus Mount Everest; then we subtract the volume of a sphere with a radius of the Earth. Now, I know this won't yield a perfect result, because the Earth isn't a perfect sphere, but it will serve to give a general idea about the amounts involved.
So, here are the calculations:
First, Everest:
V = 4/3×pi×r3
= 4/3×pi×6387.248 km3
= 1.09151×1012 km3
Now, the Earth at sea level:
V = 4/3×pi×r3
= 4/3×pi×6378.4 km3
= 1.08698×1012 km3
The difference between these two figures is the amount of water needed to just cover the Earth: 4.525×109 Or, to put into a more sensible number, 4,525,000,000,000 cubic kilometres. This is one helluva lot of water.
For those who think it might come from the polar ice caps, please don't forget that water is more dense than ice, and thus that the volume of ice present in those ice caps would have to be more than the volume of water necessary. Some interesting physical effects of all that water, too. How much weight do you
think that is? Well, water at STP weighs in at 1 gram/cubic centimetre (by definition), so:
4.525×109 km3 of water,
×109 (cubic meters in a cubic kilometer),
×106 (cubic centimetres in a cubic meter),
×1 g/cm3 (denisty of water),
×10-3 (kilograms),
(turn the crank)
equals 4.525×1021 kg
Ever wonder what the effects of that much weight would be? Well, many times in the near past (i.e., the Pleistocene), continental ice sheets covered many of the northern states and most all of Canada. For the sake of argument, let's say the area covered by the Wisconsinian advance (the latest and greatest) was
10,000,000,000 (ten million) km2, by an average thickness of 1 km of ice (a good estimate... it was thicker in some areas [the zones of accumulation] and much thinner elsewhere [at the ablating edges]).
Now, 1.00×107 km2 times 1 km thickness equals 1.00×107 km3 of ice.
Now, remember earlier that we noted that it would take 4.525×109 km3 of water for the Flood? Well, looking at the Wisconsinian glaciation, all that ice (which is frozen water, remember?) would be precisely 0.222% [...do the math] (that's zero decimal two hundred twenty two thousandths) percent of the water
needed for the flood.
Well, the Wisconsinian glacial stade ended about 25,000 YBP (years before present), as compared for the approximately supposedly 4,000 YBP flood event.
Due to these late Pleistocene glaciations (some 21,000 years preceding the supposed flood), the mass of the ice has actually depressed the crust of the Earth. That crust, now that the ice is gone, is slowly rising (called glacial rebound); an this rebound can be measured, in places (like northern Wisconsin), in centimetres- per-year. Sea level was also lowered some tens of meters due to the very finite amount of water in the Earth's hydrosphere being locked up in glacial ice sheets (geologists call this glacioeustacy).
Now, glacial rebound can only be measured, obviously, in glaciated terranes, i.e., the Sahara is not rebounding as it was not glaciated during the Pleistocene. This lack of rebound is noted by laser ranged interferometery and satellite geodesy [so there], as well as by geomorphology. Glacial striae on bedrock, eskers, tills, moraines, rouche moutenees, drumlins, kame and kettle topography, fjords, deranged
fluvial drainage and erratic blocks all betray a glacier's passage. Needless to say, these geomorphological expressions are not found everywhere on Earth (for instance, like the Sahara). Therefore, although extensive, the glaciers were a local (not global) is scale. Yet, at only 0.222% the size of the supposed flood, they have had a PROFOUND and EASILY recognisable and measurable effects on the lands.
Yet, the supposed flood of Noah, supposedly global in extent, supposedly much more recent, and supposedly orders of magnitude larger in scale; has exactly zero measurable effects and zero evidence for it's occurrence.
Golly, Wally. I wonder why that may be...?
Further, Mount Everest extends through 2/3 of the Earth's atmosphere. Since two
forms of matter can't occupy the same space, we have an additional problem with the
atmosphere. Its current boundary marks the point at which gasses of the atmosphere
can escape the Earth's gravitational field. Even allowing for partial dissolving of
the atmosphere into our huge ocean, we'd lose the vast majority of our atmosphere
as it is raised some 5.155 km higher by the rising flood waters; and it boils off
into space.
Yet, we still have a quite thick and nicely breathable atmosphere. In fact, ice
cores from Antarctica (as well as deep-sea sediment cores) which can be
geochemically tested for paleoatmospheric constituents and relative gas ratios; and
these records extend well back into the Pleistocene, far more than the supposed
4,000 YBP flood event. Strange that this major loss of atmosphere, atmospheric
fractionation (lighter gasses - oxygen, nitrogen, fluorine, neon, etc. - would
have boiled off first in the flood-water rising scenario, enriching what remained
with heavier gasses - argon, krypton, xenon, radon, etc.), and massive
extinctions from such global upheavals are totally unevidenced in these cores.
Even further, let us take a realistic and dispassionate look at the other claims
relating to global flooding and other such biblical nonsense.
Particularly, in order to flood the Earth to the Genesis requisite depth of 10
cubits (~15' or 5 m.) above the summit of Mt. Ararat (16,900' or 5,151 m AMSL), it
would obviously require a water depth of 16,915' (5,155.7 m), or over three miles
above mean sea level. In order to accomplish this little task, it would require
the previously noted additional 4.525×109 km3 of water to flood the Earth to this
depth. The Earth's present hydrosphere (the sum total of all waters in, on and
above the Earth) totals only 1.37×109 km3. Where would this additional
4.525×109 km3 of water come from? It cannot come from water vapour (i.e., clouds)
because the atmospheric pressure would be 840 times greater than standard pressure
of the atmosphere today. Further, the latent heat released when the vapour
condenses into liquid water would be enough to raise the temperature of the
Earth's atmosphere to approximately 3,570 C (6,460 F).
Someone, who shall properly remain anonymous, suggested that all the water needed
to flood the Earth existed as liquid water surrounding the globe (i.e., a "vapour
canopy"). This, of course, is staggeringly stupid. What is keeping that much water
from falling to the Earth? There is a little property called gravity that would
cause it to fall.
Let's look into that from a physical standpoint. To flood the Earth, we have
already seen that it would require 4.525×109 km3 of water with a mass of
4.525×1021 kg. When this amount of water is floating about the Earth's
surface, it stored an enormous amount of potential energy, which is converted to
kinetic energy when it falls, which, in turn, is converted to heat upon impact
with the Earth. The amount of heat released is immense:
Potential energy: E=MgH, where
M = mass of water,
g = gravitational constant and,
H = height of water above surface.
Now, going with the Genesis version of the Noachian Deluge as lasting 40 days and
nights, the amount of mass falling to Earth each day is 4.525×1021 kg/40 24-hr.
periods. This equals 1.10675×1020 kilograms daily. Using H as 10 miles (16,000
meters), the energy released each day is 1.73584×1025 joules. The amount of energy
the Earth would have to radiate per m2/sec is energy divided by surface area of the
Earth times number of seconds in one day. That is:
e = 1.735384×1025/(4×3.14159×((63862)×86,400))
e = 391,935.0958 j/m2/s
Currently, the Earth radiates energy at the rate of approximately 215 joules/m2/sec
and the average temperature is 280 K. Using the Stefan-Boltzman 4th-Power Law to
calculate the increase in temperature:
E (increase)/E (normal) = T (increase)/T4 (normal)
E (normal) = 215
E (increase) = 391,935.0958
T (normal) = 280.
Turn the crank, and T (increase) equals 1,800 K.
The temperature would thusly rise 1,800 K, or 1,526.84 C (that's 2,780.33 F...
lead melts at 880 F...). It would be highly unlikely that anything short of fused
quartz would survive such an onslaught. Also, the water level would have to rise
at an average rate of 5.5 inches/min; and in 13 minutes would be in excess of six
feet deep.
Finally, at 1800 K water would not exist as liquid.
It is quite clear that a Biblical Flood is and was quite impossible.
Personally I find it pointless to try to fit a supernatural event into natural terms, but if you're going to try, at least think it through a little better. For instance:
QuoteFirst - the global flood supposedly (Scripturally) covered the planet and Mount Everest is 8,848 meters tall.
The true first is to consider whether Mt. Everest existed, and at its current height, prior to the flood in a Biblical model. The height of mountains and depth of the oceans before, during and after the flood could change your calculations drastically.
Again, I don't really see the point, but if you're gonna do it, do it right.
Quote from: "Voter"Personally I find it pointless to try to fit a supernatural event into natural terms, but if you're going to try, at least think it through a little better. For instance:
QuoteFirst - the global flood supposedly (Scripturally) covered the planet and Mount Everest is 8,848 meters tall.
The true first is to consider whether Mt. Everest existed, and at its current height, prior to the flood in a Biblical model. The height of mountains and depth of the oceans before, during and after the flood could change your calculations drastically.
Again, I don't really see the point, but if you're gonna do it, do it right.
Oh, Everest was very much present 4-5000 years ago. The imperfections of the model presented are far below the margin of error with regard to the possibility of a global flood. Even if Everest was shorter, the Biblical flood would still be impossible.