Happy Atheist Forum

What would you do if someone in your social circle claimed to be the Christ Eternal?

I would react the same way most others would, think my friend had gone insane.

Our circle just holds out their glasses for replenishment.

Quote from: "Whitney"I would react the same way most others would, think my friend had gone insane.

Yep - and try to get my friend help.

I would react as I usually do (unless it directly affects me) - not at all.

If it was a close friend, however, unlikely as it is with MY close friends, I'd probably psychoanalyse the guy and act accordingly to my findings.

Now, assuming I know the person is on some sort of medicine to keep him sane, if the person ran out of meds or didn't take them, I'd be video taping his antics and show him what he does when not taking them. But I'm not about to coddle him and make sure he takes his meds. I don't have time for people too stupid or negligent enough not to take their medicine.

On the other hand, people who must take life saving or sanity saving meds are in my social circle. People that are dumb enough not to take them are not.

I would give them a glass of water.    

Quote from: "hingedro"What would you do if someone in your social circle claimed to be the Christ Eternal?

Ask why he/she thinks that.  But that's how I react to anything astonishing.  I ask why.  And boy would this be astonishing, considering my social circle.

Can your friend come over to my house and transform water into wine, I'm awfully low in stock.

I would amuse myself by providing them numerous opportunities for them to prove their godhood. Really, though, a claim of that magnitude is indicative of psychosis. It is a delusion of grandeur that exceeds the limitations of a simple delusional disorder and ascends headlong into the realm of something akin to schizophrenia. I'd be interested to know whether this person displays other odd symptoms.

Clearly the best course of action would be to become this person's agent. Help spread the word that this person is, in fact, the big JC. Help them gain followers, there's plenty of whack jobs out there who'll believe it, I mean, there's still plenty of them who believe the nutjob 2000 years ago. And just look how much money they still get off that guy!
Profit, profit, profit!!
Milk this cashcow for all it's worth, that's what I say.  

If that doesn't work, deem him crazy and move on.

I had a friend that did this after a binge of some sort of hallucinogen (mescaline? not sure) but he went into a state of psychosis for about a month, claiming he was some sort of god, and trying to heal us all, and preform miracles.  He also thought they were flying him to some foreign country to worship him.  It was funny as hell, but if anyone questioned him or implied he was just crazy, he went nuts, and even threatened to kill some of his close friends over the fact they didn't believe him.  I just went along with everything he was saying because I knew it wasn't really him and that soon he'd be back to normal.  I just recommend being careful in what is said around him/her if you have any worries that they will become violent.

Also record all the crazy shit they say, this happened over two years ago yet we still will pull out the old recordings of him, and laugh our asses off.

what is a christ eternal?
Im guessing its some sort of religious fanatics group?
I would say "uh-huh ok,..."
and avoid him foreverafter

Quote from: "hingedro"What would you do if someone in your social circle claimed to be the Christ Eternal?

Have a good laugh and then move onto the next joke  

Seriously though may the Lord have mercy on you both.

A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

If I recall my history correct, Julius Caesar claimed divinity also.  Someone's claim to be divine means nothing.  

Before you go off on that tangent, you need to prove that the Jesus portrayed in your holy book even existed.

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

Formally? No one has introduced me to him yet. I've even invited him to tea several times.

Jesus is a no-show.

OTOH, what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Quote from: "Gawen"

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

Formally? No one has introduced me to him yet. I've even invited him to tea several times.

Jesus is a no-show.

OTOH, what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Appears to be a poorly executed 'bait-and-switch.'  You know, 'You act this way in one situation, why don't you act that way when confronted with the idea of the divine?'

Quote from: "Velma"

Quote from: "Gawen"

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

Formally? No one has introduced me to him yet. I've even invited him to tea several times.

Jesus is a no-show.

OTOH, what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Appears to be a poorly executed 'bait-and-switch.'  You know, 'You act this way in one situation, why don't you act that way when confronted with the idea of the divine?'

I'm seriously wondering how he thought that would work. What, did he think we would actually start to worship one of our friends if he claimed to be the Christ or something?

Actually, this bait and switch tactic would work a hell of a lot better against actual believers. If someone you knew claimed to be Jesus, you would deem him crazy; why don't you do the same with Jesus? I mean, there's no evidence that he even existed, much less did any of the purported miracles.

I have seen it done much better in other places.  Even if it had been well done, he skipped a huge number of intervening logical steps.

Quote from: "Achronos"Seriously though may the Lord have mercy on you both.

If you're serious you're seriously deranged mate. I mean let's face it the Jews were first so they must be right, while the Muslims got the last prophet so they must be right, Hindus are all inclusive so they must be right. At least Judaism, Islam and Hinduism are relatively self-consistent. Christianity is a joke. An omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do, so he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do and then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place. Get real mate, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.

Fortunately I don't live in an aggressive theocracy like Saudi Arabia, the USA or Pakistan. I don't have to put up with being abused by nasty, self-centred, arrogant, proselytising, delusional God Botherers. The fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance. My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free. With the birth of my Grandson on the 29th Nov another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.

Regards
Chris

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Achronos"Seriously though may the Lord have mercy on you both.

If you're serious you're seriously deranged mate.

Isn't that like saying "I hope the fascist dictator doesn't give you what you deserve but you and I both know he will"?

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

I would no more bow down to Lard Jebus than I would to Donald Duck, Daffy Duck maybe, Warner Brothers characters always had more balls that Disney. Even if JC existed exactly the way the Bible states I wouldn't bow down to the arrogant cunt. If there is one entity that truly deserved to live for all eternity in hell it would be the Christian God, he has nothing, absolutly nothing, to recommend him as worthy of anything other that absolute derision. He's an incompetent, spiteful, manipulative, murderous, genocidal maniac. He makes Hitler look positively benevolent! If a person behaved like the Christian God they would be put in prison or a mental asylum and the key would be thrown away.

Quote from: "Tank"He makes Hitler look positively benevolent!

Yes.  If either (1) the biblical Jehovah or (2) the God of Providence (or both) genuinely existed, and if there were some sort of antagonist named Satan - pure fantasy, of course - I would be signing up with the Infernal Legions, out of a sense of solidarity with all life, and outrage at the horrific evil of deity, author of torment, maker of misery.

Don't anyone tell Tank what I got him for christmas.
I thought it looked a bit flimsy, but the sales guy said I should have faith.
He also said the warranty would be void if any sign of nail holes could be found.
These things are truly versatile, you can blow them up really big and inspire armies to follow you.
Alternately just blow them up a bit and they look friendly, the kiddies love 'em.
Best thing is, you can say Jesus punching bag says whatever you want, and he wont contradict you.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_jjqlEoLFDNQ%2FS1g8TuZbxPI%2FAAAAAAAABaY%2Fdjj2prNRS2E%2Fs400%2F4321426.0.jpg&hash=37fe9f5c5ff3e2fe0b92ecd83483cac72a103c3b)

Love it!

At least it won't cost a lot in air mail!

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

Oh, come on now. You started this thread and wasted our time just to get to this point? Disappointing, really, but not totally unexpected. I'll consider making this an unofficial warning if you manage to respond and convince us this was not a completely juvenile attempt at bait and switch trolling.

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

I would like to formally admit my divinity right now. Please bow down to me.

Quote from: "Sophus"

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

I would like to formally admit my divinity right now. Please bow down to me.

F*** O** I'm God, bow down to me you heretic!  

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

I see this question as on-topic with the first:

Quote from: "hingedro"What would you do if someone in your social circle claimed to be the Christ Eternal?

Both questions can be answered the same way: because they're most likely just crazy. I'll give you a demonstration:

I am Herbert the Almighty, I am supremely divine.



I'm going to go ahead and assume that I'm not going to get any followers just because I claim I am divine. Jesus is the same way, the only difference is that instead of there being an actual person claiming divinity, a bunch of people starting at least 50 years after he died are claiming it for him.

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

What makes you think our answers would differ for some character in an old book when we wouldn't even believe our friends?

BTW, this is really close to preaching so please make yourself aware of the forum rules before you cross the line and find yourself starting the banning process...giving you fair warning so don't start in with "I'm being persecuted" if it happens  

I apologise for any offence I caused.

Quote from: "hingedro"I apologise for any offence I caused.

I don't see anyone that is offended....annoyed with wasting their time, possibly.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "hingedro"I apologise for any offence I caused.

I don't see anyone that is offended....annoyed with wasting their time, possibly.

Yep. Not offended just extremely fed up with really stupid questions that if the interlocutor thought about what they were typing they would realise how useless and unproductive the question really was. Atheists don't have reason to believe God exists thus any question like the one you asked is just a waste of every bodies time. Hingedro I would find it much more interesting to know what motivated you to ask the question in the first place.

I like how you, Tank, singled out Christianity as your punching bag of all religions, calling all others "self-consistent" but Christianity worst of garbage. I'll take that as a badge of honor. I will take crap from you any day in the name of Christ. On behalf of whatever you experience, all Christians seem to you "abusive, nasty, self-centered, arrogant."  And to that I say, if that's what you saw, then it's understandable why you're an atheist. When you're this angry, let's face it, you're simply in denial of your reasons for atheism. You think it's because of your intelligence that you're atheistic, but really it's because of what you see around you.

Perhaps, you'll never believe. But from what I understand, your grandchildren being raised in an atheist environment may tend to be very open to the idea of God later on, perhaps because he/she might also experience "abusive, nasty, self-centered, arrogant, delusional" atheists. Your reaction and the majority posts I've seen here serve as an example of how bitter atheists can be in their lives, and actually the presence of this board really is a blessing in disguise.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Achronos"Seriously though may the Lord have mercy on you both.

If you're serious you're seriously deranged mate. I mean let's face it the Jews were first so they must be right

No, they weren't.

Quotethe Muslims got the last prophet so they must be right,

No, they don't.

QuoteHindus are all inclusive so they must be right.

No, they aren't.

QuoteAt least Judaism, Islam and Hinduism are relatively self-consistent.

No, they aren't. But since you display no knowledge of any of them, assume that an assertion must be taken at face value, and have yet to explain why being first, last or inclusive has any relevance to the Truth, I'm not sure you learning any facts on Judaism, Islam or Hinduism is going to make your thinking any more coherent.

QuoteChristianity is a joke.

Although your credentials as court jester may be in order, your "expertise" has failed you here.

QuoteAn omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do,

Only the seriously deranged condemn the gift of free will as a curse.

Quoteso he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do

He did not say "I will kill you." He said "You will die by death."

Quoteand then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place.

He created them, not the problem.
God pity your grandchildren.

QuoteGet real mate, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.

Earth to Tank!....Earth to Tank!....Earth to Tank!

Even the secular benefits of Christianity have been amply been recognized and secured by history.

QuoteFortunately I don't live in an aggressive theocracy like Saudi Arabia, the USA or Pakistan.

What part of paradise do you call home again?

QuoteI don't have to put up with being abused by nasty, self-centred, arrogant, proselytising, delusional God Botherers.

Oh? is that why you come here, seeking abuse?

QuoteThe fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance.

If you posts are any indication of your skills, they must be piss poor missionaries for you to get the better of them.  I should think that even the dumbest JW could knock you down a notch.

QuoteMy kids are all normal people and completely superstition free.

So are all the children in our Sunday School.

QuoteWith the birth of my Grandson on the 29th Nov another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.

Hopefully your family is better than the "Murray's" (in quotations, because no Murray family, with married husband and father, ever existed:

QuoteIn 1941, she married John Henry Roths. They separated when they both enlisted for World War II service, he in the United States Marine Corps, she in the Women's Army Corps. In April 1945, while posted to a cryptography position in Italy, she began an affair with an officer, William J. Murray, Jr. Murray was a married Roman Catholic, and he refused to divorce his wife. Mays divorced Roths and began calling herself Madalyn Murray, and gave birth to a boy she named William J. Murray and nicknamed "Bill."

In 1949, Murray completed a bachelor's degree from Ashland University.[7] In 1952, she completed a law degree from South Texas College of Law; however, she failed the bar exam and never practiced law.[4] In later writing for American Atheists, she referred to herself as "Dr. O'Hair," likely with regard to her law degree (a juris doctorate), although it is not standard practice for individuals in the United States with law degrees to do so. On November 16, 1954 she gave birth to her second son Jon Garth Murray, fathered by her boyfriend Michael Fiorillo.[3]

She and her two children traveled via ship to Europe with the intention of defecting to the Soviet embassy in Paris and residing in the Soviet Union. The Soviets denied them entry.[4] Murray and her sons returned to Baltimore, Maryland in 1960.[8]

Murray stated that she worked for seventeen years as a psychiatric social worker, and that in 1960 she was a supervisor at the Baltimore city public welfare department.[7]

Worked 17 years as a psychiatric social worker. Says a lot about the system.

There is a ray of light though: William, the one for whom she sued in the US Supreme Court to ban prayer in school, received baptism:

QuoteWilliam J. Murray is the chairman of the Religious Freedom Coalition, a non-profit organization in Washington, D.C., active on issues related to aiding Christians in Islamic and Communist nations.

William is the son of Madalyn Murray O'Hair,[1] an United States atheist activist who came to national attention in Baltimore, Maryland when she filed a lawsuit with the Supreme Court of the United States, saying that compulsory prayer and reading of the Bible in schools was unconstitutional.

Murray converted to Baptist Christianity in 1980. His mother reportedly stated, upon learning of his conversion, "One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times ... he is beyond human forgiveness."[2] He felt similarly negative toward her in his first book, My Life Without God, as he made allegations such as: "She was just evil … She misused the trust of people. She cheated children out of their parents' inheritance."[3] Bill also repudiated his mother upon the occasion of her death, saying "I used to ask people to pray for my mother's salvation. I don't do that anymore…. My mother was an evil person."[2]

William J. Murray is the author of several books including Let Us Pray and The Church Is Not For Perfect People. His most recent book is The Pledge: One Nation Under God, for which the foreword, "A Washington, DC insider", was written by Congressman Todd Akin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Murray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Murray)

QuoteRegards
Chris

An old story is told about a drunk who fell into a pit. The sides of the pit were so steep and he was so inebriated that he could not get out. He cried in alarm to anyone who would hear him.

A Jew walked by, stopped, took out the Psalms and quoted:-

“I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I am a man who has no strength” (Ps 88:4)

“My son,” he said, observe God’s Law and you will not stumble.” With that he walked on by.

A Muslim walked to the edge of the pit, peered over and declaimed: “You are a drunk, an unbeliever. First submit both Allah and to his laws, then you will know Paradise.” In disgust, he also walked away hurriedly.

A Hindu approached, a sage. “Your karma is now set by this deed. There is nothing you can do. Accept death and on your next rebirth perhaps your soul will make more progress.” The sage calmly walked away.

A Buddhist monk approached and with compassion he looked down on the man and tried to teach him to meditate. “Try to extinguish your desires … for earthly freedom, even for life itself. With desire comes suffering. With the right mental attitude you too can attain nibbana.” The monk retreated from the pit with a beatific smile on his face.

The drunk man grumbled noisily to himself in the pangs of his pain that all men were the same. With much difficulty he slumped and forward and fell into a fitful sleep.

Suddenly he was rudely awoken by a rough fellow gently shaking him. This man had let himself down into the pit with a rope.

The descent was so difficult beset with sharp stones, briars and obstacles that his hands and body were bleeding.

He took a spare rope, tied it round the drunken man’s waist who fell silent in disbelief. The drunk felt himself dragged to the side of the pit whereupon his rescuer strapped them both together and raised them up on a pulley fixed into the edge of the top of the pit for that purpose.

As they both stood out of the pit into the sunshine, unshackled, the drunken man, who was now a little more sober, looked round. The stranger had gone but there was a rather odd charge that lingered on in the air. He did not feel alone.

He looked back into the pit and thought thankfully about the great sacrifice this Man had made to save him.

Quote from: "Achronos"I like how you, Tank, singled out Christianity as your punching bag of all religions, calling all others "self-consistent" but Christianity worst of garbage. I'll take that as a badge of honor. I will take crap from you any day in the name of Christ. On behalf of whatever you experience, all Christians seem to you "abusive, nasty, self-centered, arrogant."  And to that I say, if that's what you saw, then it's understandable why you're an atheist. When you're this angry, let's face it, you're simply in denial of your reasons for atheism. You think it's because of your intelligence that you're atheistic, but really it's because of what you see around you.

Perhaps, you'll never believe. But from what I understand, your grandchildren being raised in an atheist environment may tend to be very open to the idea of God later on, perhaps because he/she might also experience "abusive, nasty, self-centered, arrogant, delusional" atheists. Your reaction and the majority posts I've seen here serve as an example of how bitter atheists can be in their lives, and actually the presence of this board really is a blessing in disguise.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "Achronos"Seriously though may the Lord have mercy on you both.

If you're serious you're seriously deranged mate. I mean let's face it the Jews were first so they must be right

No, they weren't.

Quotethe Muslims got the last prophet so they must be right,

No, they don't.

QuoteHindus are all inclusive so they must be right.

No, they aren't.

QuoteAt least Judaism, Islam and Hinduism are relatively self-consistent.

No, they aren't. But since you display no knowledge of any of them, assume that an assertion must be taken at face value, and have yet to explain why being first, last or inclusive has any relevance to the Truth, I'm not sure you learning any facts on Judaism, Islam or Hinduism is going to make your thinking any more coherent.

QuoteChristianity is a joke.

Although your credentials as court jester may be in order, your "expertise" has failed you here.

QuoteAn omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy was so incompetent he created creatures that he allowed to do what he didn't want them to do,

Only the seriously deranged condemn the gift of free will as a curse.

Quoteso he punished them for doing what he had given them the ability to do

He did not say "I will kill you." He said "You will die by death."

Quoteand then turned himself into one of them and had himself tortured to death to fix the problem he had created in the first place.

He created them, not the problem.
God pity your grandchildren.

QuoteGet real mate, Christianity is a waste of time, space, effort and resources. If you really believe in a Christian God you are definitely not really engaging in reality.

Earth to Tank!....Earth to Tank!....Earth to Tank!

Even the secular benefits of Christianity have been amply been recognized and secured by history.

QuoteFortunately I don't live in an aggressive theocracy like Saudi Arabia, the USA or Pakistan.

What part of paradise do you call home again?

QuoteI don't have to put up with being abused by nasty, self-centred, arrogant, proselytising, delusional God Botherers.

Oh? is that why you come here, seeking abuse?

QuoteThe fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance.

If you posts are any indication of your skills, they must be piss poor missionaries for you to get the better of them.  I should think that even the dumbest JW could knock you down a notch.

QuoteMy kids are all normal people and completely superstition free.

So are all the children in our Sunday School.

QuoteWith the birth of my Grandson on the 29th Nov another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.

Hopefully your family is better than the "Murray's" (in quotations, because no Murray family, with married husband and father, ever existed:

QuoteIn 1941, she married John Henry Roths. They separated when they both enlisted for World War II service, he in the United States Marine Corps, she in the Women's Army Corps. In April 1945, while posted to a cryptography position in Italy, she began an affair with an officer, William J. Murray, Jr. Murray was a married Roman Catholic, and he refused to divorce his wife. Mays divorced Roths and began calling herself Madalyn Murray, and gave birth to a boy she named William J. Murray and nicknamed "Bill."

In 1949, Murray completed a bachelor's degree from Ashland University.[7] In 1952, she completed a law degree from South Texas College of Law; however, she failed the bar exam and never practiced law.[4] In later writing for American Atheists, she referred to herself as "Dr. O'Hair," likely with regard to her law degree (a juris doctorate), although it is not standard practice for individuals in the United States with law degrees to do so. On November 16, 1954 she gave birth to her second son Jon Garth Murray, fathered by her boyfriend Michael Fiorillo.[3]

She and her two children traveled via ship to Europe with the intention of defecting to the Soviet embassy in Paris and residing in the Soviet Union. The Soviets denied them entry.[4] Murray and her sons returned to Baltimore, Maryland in 1960.[8]

Murray stated that she worked for seventeen years as a psychiatric social worker, and that in 1960 she was a supervisor at the Baltimore city public welfare department.[7]

Worked 17 years as a psychiatric social worker. Says a lot about the system.

There is a ray of light though: William, the one for whom she sued in the US Supreme Court to ban prayer in school, received baptism:

QuoteWilliam J. Murray is the chairman of the Religious Freedom Coalition, a non-profit organization in Washington, D.C., active on issues related to aiding Christians in Islamic and Communist nations.

William is the son of Madalyn Murray O'Hair,[1] an United States atheist activist who came to national attention in Baltimore, Maryland when she filed a lawsuit with the Supreme Court of the United States, saying that compulsory prayer and reading of the Bible in schools was unconstitutional.

Murray converted to Baptist Christianity in 1980. His mother reportedly stated, upon learning of his conversion, "One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times ... he is beyond human forgiveness."[2] He felt similarly negative toward her in his first book, My Life Without God, as he made allegations such as: "She was just evil … She misused the trust of people. She cheated children out of their parents' inheritance."[3] Bill also repudiated his mother upon the occasion of her death, saying "I used to ask people to pray for my mother's salvation. I don't do that anymore…. My mother was an evil person."[2]

William J. Murray is the author of several books including Let Us Pray and The Church Is Not For Perfect People. His most recent book is The Pledge: One Nation Under God, for which the foreword, "A Washington, DC insider", was written by Congressman Todd Akin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Murray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Murray)

QuoteRegards
Chris

An old story is told about a drunk who fell into a pit. The sides of the pit were so steep and he was so inebriated that he could not get out. He cried in alarm to anyone who would hear him.

A Jew walked by, stopped, took out the Psalms and quoted:-

“I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I am a man who has no strength” (Ps 88:4)

“My son,” he said, observe God’s Law and you will not stumble.” With that he walked on by.

A Muslim walked to the edge of the pit, peered over and declaimed: “You are a drunk, an unbeliever. First submit both Allah and to his laws, then you will know Paradise.” In disgust, he also walked away hurriedly.

A Hindu approached, a sage. “Your karma is now set by this deed. There is nothing you can do. Accept death and on your next rebirth perhaps your soul will make more progress.” The sage calmly walked away.

A Buddhist monk approached and with compassion he looked down on the man and tried to teach him to meditate. “Try to extinguish your desires … for earthly freedom, even for life itself. With desire comes suffering. With the right mental attitude you too can attain nibbana.” The monk retreated from the pit with a beatific smile on his face.

The drunk man grumbled noisily to himself in the pangs of his pain that all men were the same. With much difficulty he slumped and forward and fell into a fitful sleep.

Suddenly he was rudely awoken by a rough fellow gently shaking him. This man had let himself down into the pit with a rope.

The descent was so difficult beset with sharp stones, briars and obstacles that his hands and body were bleeding.

He took a spare rope, tied it round the drunken man’s waist who fell silent in disbelief. The drunk felt himself dragged to the side of the pit whereupon his rescuer strapped them both together and raised them up on a pulley fixed into the edge of the top of the pit for that purpose.

As they both stood out of the pit into the sunshine, unshackled, the drunken man, who was now a little more sober, looked round. The stranger had gone but there was a rather odd charge that lingered on in the air. He did not feel alone.

He looked back into the pit and thought thankfully about the great sacrifice this Man had made to save him.

Thank you for your considered reply, you have confirmed everything I expected of you. Nice to know I was spot on with my assessment of how you would reply. You can be on your way now.

This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=2&p=94943#p94943 (http://happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=94943#p94943) .

Bringing Tank's grandchildren into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.

btw, that was strike 2.

Quote from: "Whitney"This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: http://happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic. ... 943#p94943 (http://happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=94943#p94943) .

Bringing Tank's grandchildren into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.

btw, that was strike 2.

I think it was Tank who brought up his own grandchildren...

Quote from: "Tank"My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free. With the birth of my Grandson on the 29th Nov another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"

Quote from: "Whitney"This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=2&p=94943#p94943 (http://happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=94943#p94943) .

Bringing Tank's grandchildren into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.

btw, that was strike 2.

I think it was Tank who brought up his own grandchildren...

Quote from: "Tank"My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free. With the birth of my Grandson on the 29th Nov another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.

SO?

It's never appropriate to use personal attacks to discuss a topic; Tank wasn't using his grandchildren within an example and in turn they were used a ammo for an emotionally charged response....doesn't fly here.

Has it not occurred to you, Achronos, that Tank mostly talks about christianty because it is the religion that has been in his face most of his life?  As his friend, I can tell you that he is not the least bit bitter, but he has seen the harmful effects of religion on the lives of people, including mine.  It's enough to make someone very angry.

Quote from: "Whitney"SO?

It's never appropriate to use personal attacks to discuss a topic; Tank wasn't using his grandchildren within an example and in turn they were used a ammo for an emotionally charged response....doesn't fly here.

Quote from: "Achronos"Perhaps, you'll never believe. But from what I understand, your grandchildren being raised in an atheist environment may tend to be very open to the idea of God later on,

This is "ammo" and a personal attack?  Isn't it the general concensus on this forum that the opposite is true, that being that "you" (an Atheist) came from a Christian family, but to say the opposite or insinuate the opposite is a personal attack?  It's a statement of fact, if we are being honest.  How can that be an attack or inappropriate.  Tank, in fact, did use his grandchild as an example of "normal and completely suprestition free"...to say he wasn't is contradictory to his words.

Quote from: "Achronos"An old story is told about a drunk who fell into a pit. The sides of the pit were so steep and he was so inebriated that he could not get out. He cried in alarm to anyone who would hear him.

A Jew walked by, stopped, took out the Psalms and quoted:-

“I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I am a man who has no strength” (Ps 88:4)

“My son,” he said, observe God’s Law and you will not stumble.” With that he walked on by.

A Muslim walked to the edge of the pit, peered over and declaimed: “You are a drunk, an unbeliever. First submit both Allah and to his laws, then you will know Paradise.” In disgust, he also walked away hurriedly.

A Hindu approached, a sage. “Your karma is now set by this deed. There is nothing you can do. Accept death and on your next rebirth perhaps your soul will make more progress.” The sage calmly walked away.

A Buddhist monk approached and with compassion he looked down on the man and tried to teach him to meditate. “Try to extinguish your desires … for earthly freedom, even for life itself. With desire comes suffering. With the right mental attitude you too can attain nibbana.” The monk retreated from the pit with a beatific smile on his face.

The drunk man grumbled noisily to himself in the pangs of his pain that all men were the same. With much difficulty he slumped and forward and fell into a fitful sleep.

Suddenly he was rudely awoken by a rough fellow gently shaking him. This man had let himself down into the pit with a rope.

The descent was so difficult beset with sharp stones, briars and obstacles that his hands and body were bleeding.

He took a spare rope, tied it round the drunken man’s waist who fell silent in disbelief. The drunk felt himself dragged to the side of the pit whereupon his rescuer strapped them both together and raised them up on a pulley fixed into the edge of the top of the pit for that purpose.

As they both stood out of the pit into the sunshine, unshackled, the drunken man, who was now a little more sober, looked round. The stranger had gone but there was a rather odd charge that lingered on in the air. He did not feel alone.

He looked back into the pit and thought thankfully about the great sacrifice this Man had made to save him.

Am I the only one who's slightly confused at what this story is supposed to illustrate?

Quote from: "Tank"Thank you for your considered reply, you have confirmed everything I expected of you. Nice to know I was spot on with my assessment of how you would reply. You can be on your way now.

I'm not Pavlov's dog, so like our God, I am not at your beck and call.

You came here to spout your prattle. That you are disappointed at my laughter is your problem.

Quote from: "Whitney"This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=2&p=94943#p94943 (http://happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=94943#p94943) .

Bringing Tank's grandchildren into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.

btw, that was strike 2.

No paparazzi here followed him here and brought them into the discussion. He's boasting over the automatons (since he faults God's giving free will, I take it that he tried to deprive his children of it) did that.

Quotewhen accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance. My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free. With the birth of my child another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.

Also his sense of humor seems skewed. (Christianity as a joke)  But let's proceed to the substance of his argument, no?

An omnipotent and omniscient God who has abundant love created people, but instead of creating self-serving robots He created us to have free will, and then to allow us the exercise of free will (what's the point of having it without being able to use it?) He gave us a choice - eternal life, or death. We were tricked into thinking death was life, and we thus chose death. Instead of abandoning us to our choice, forever to be condemned to death as a final ending, He chose to become one of us, suffer, die, and rise, in order to not only save us, but to do so while leaving that free-will (the third gift, after love and life itself) intact and unharmed - to allow us to make that choice again.

Christianity teaches us to combat the real problems of the world (hunger, poverty, disease, abandonment, etc.) head-on, not out of feeling superior or empowered, but out of humble love for the other people; to give without expectation of repayment, or expectation of conversion.  Those who do not practice this are not Christian, and those who practice it imperfectly are, well, human.

So Tank admits to being a sadist?  What's the explanation for having "fun" by accosting "well meaning" people?  Your grandkids may be "superstition free" (which, by the way, we are, too), but they're not getting much of a lesson in interpersonal relationships.

We're really not called to "worry about" paradise or hell - we're supposed to care for people in the world, to pray for them and for us, grow in our relationship with God, and to gather together in thanksgiving for the blessings of life. If you find that objectionable, I'm interested in hearing why.

Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument is free to ask another one of the mods to explain it to them...I'm not going to bother.

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"This is "ammo" and a personal attack?  Isn't it the general concensus on this forum that the opposite is true, that being that "you" (an Atheist) came from a Christian family, but to say the opposite or insinuate the opposite is a personal attack?  It's a statement of fact, if we are being honest.  How can that be an attack or inappropriate.  Tank, in fact, did use his grandchild as an example of "normal and completely suprestition free"...to say he wasn't is contradictory to his words.

Brother I appreciate you defending me, but I wouldn't waste your time. You are trying to rationalize with someone who clearly wants me banished from the forum. Let their bitterness pervade.

QuoteAnyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument is free to ask another one of the mods to explain it to them...I'm not going to bother.

If I recall correctly he tried to use them as a "weapon" in this discussion:

QuoteThe fun thing about that is that when accosted by well meaning street missionaries I can take the piss out of them mercilessly and have a real laugh at their ignorance. My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free.

With the birth of my Grandson on the 29th Nov another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.

I'm perfectly willing to leave them out of any further discussion, if he's willing to stop using them to attempt to "score points."  (Which, personally, I don't think his use of them accomplished much in this discussion.)

When I sing about love and war
I don't really know what I'm saying
I've been in love and I've seen a lot of war
Seen a lot of people praying
They pray to Allah and they prey to the lord
But mostly they pray about love and war
Pray about love and war

I've seen a lot of young men go to war
And leave a lot of young brides waiting
I've watched them try to explain it to their kids
And seen a lot of them failing
They tried to tell them and they tried to explain
Why daddy won't ever come home again.
Daddy won't ever come home again
I said a lot of things that I can't take back
But I don't really know if I want to
There've been songs about love
I sang songs about war
Since the backstreets of Toronto
I sang for justice and I hit a bad chord
But I still try to sing about love and war
Sing about love and war

The saddest thing in the whole wide world
Is to break the heart of your lover
I made a mistake and I did it again
And we struggled to recover
Then I sang in anger, hit another bad chord
But I still try to sing about love and war
I've been in love and I've seen a lot of war
Seen a lot of people praying
They pray to Allah and they prey to the lord
But mostly they pray about love and war
Pray about love and war.

Achronos, your persecution complex is showing.

I do have to say, though, that while contemplating Whitney's complaint here, a thought has come to mind: Tank had brought a sword to this discussion, and has attempted to use it freely, and yet Whitney complains when others have attacked him with swords, too. You should either treat this like an "appropriate discussion," and thus change your tone and approach, or you should be mindful that, just as you are permitted to make controversial claims and statements here in the "Religion" Forum, others are, too.

I can't be everywhere at once and I point out things when I see them...there is a report button either use it or don't complain.  Not going to entertain persecution complexes especially when I've recently gotten after an atheist poster for acting like a troll.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"

Quote from: "Whitney"This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: http://happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic. ... 943#p94943 (http://happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=94943#p94943) .

Bringing Tank's grandchildren into this is way past the line where appropriate discussion ends.

btw, that was strike 2.

I think it was Tank who brought up his own grandchildren...

Quote from: "Tank"My kids are all normal people and completely superstition free. With the birth of my Grandson on the 29th Nov another generation of the superstition free has arrived and they may actually be able to deal with the real issues humanity faces rather than worrying about what an imaginary, mythological issues like going to paradise or hell.

SO?

It's never appropriate to use personal attacks to discuss a topic; Tank wasn't using his grandchildren within an example and in turn they were used a ammo for an emotionally charged response....doesn't fly here.

Quote from: "Achronos"I do have to say, though, that while contemplating Whitney's complaint here, a thought has come to mind: Tank had brought a sword to this discussion, and has attempted to use it freely, and yet Whitney complains when others have attacked him with swords, too. You should either treat this like an "appropriate discussion," and thus change your tone and approach, or you should be mindful that, just as you are permitted to make controversial claims and statements here in the "Religion" Forum, others are, too.

What Whitney warned you for and what you claim you were warned for don't match up.  Like I said, your persecution complex is showing.  I'd have that checked if I were you.

Quote from: "Achronos"I do have to say, though, that while contemplating Whitney's complaint here, a thought has come to mind: Tank had brought a sword to this discussion, and has attempted to use it freely, and yet Whitney complains when others have attacked him with swords, too. You should either treat this like an "appropriate discussion," and thus change your tone and approach, or you should be mindful that, just as you are permitted to make controversial claims and statements here in the "Religion" Forum, others are, too.

You are being treated as fairly as every other member on this forum. If you don't think so, then send Tank a PM and ask him privately, since you seem to think he is getting the kid glove treatment. Stop your own complaining, and don't attempt to tell Whitney how to run her forum. You are the last person who needs to be telling someone else here to make an adjustment in tone or approach, Achronos. You've been fairly warned already.

Quote from: "hingedro"What would you do if someone in your social circle claimed to be the Christ Eternal?

I'd probably laugh first.

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

Because, like many other myths, it is a story made by humans.

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"

Quote from: "Achronos"Perhaps, you'll never believe. But from what I understand, your grandchildren being raised in an atheist environment may tend to be very open to the idea of God later on,

This is "ammo" and a personal attack?  Isn't it the general concensus on this forum that the opposite is true, that being that "you" (an Atheist) came from a Christian family, but to say the opposite or insinuate the opposite is a personal attack?  It's a statement of fact, if we are being honest.  How can that be an attack or inappropriate.  Tank, in fact, did use his grandchild as an example of "normal and completely suprestition free"...to say he wasn't is contradictory to his words.

Whoa, sorry Dirt, but if you're going to quote his words quote all of them:

Quote from: "Achronos"Perhaps, you'll never believe. But from what I understand, your grandchildren being raised in an atheist environment may tend to be very open to the idea of God later on, perhaps because he/she might also experience "abusive, nasty, self-centered, arrogant, delusional" atheists. Your reaction and the majority posts I've seen here serve as an example of how bitter atheists can be in their lives, and actually the presence of this board really is a blessing in disguise.

Quote from: "Whitney"Anyone who doesn't understand why it is not appropriate to use "I feel sorry for your grandchildren" etc as part of an argument is free to ask another one of the mods to explain it to them...I'm not going to bother.

Not an exact quote.  I believe the quote is;

Quote from: "Achronos"He created them, not the problem.
God pity your grandchildren.

I've read in a few threads of Atheists not liking, but appreciating the concern and well wishes from Christians that say, "Bless you".  I don't see this as any different or mean spirited from Achronos towards Tank or Tank's grandchildren.  Even if "God" isn't, the blessing is still meant for good and not harm.  To have pity is not a curse, but a call for abundant love to be shown.

AD, this really isn't up for discussion..esp not in thread.  If you still have a problem with someone else being told to not use family as a tool to debate someone then you need to PM one of the other moderators.  If you continue this discussion in thread I'll just ban you for a week to help you get it.

Quote from: "Sophus"Whoa, sorry Dirt, but if you're going to quote his words quote all of them:

Quote from: "Achronos"Perhaps, you'll never believe. But from what I understand, your grandchildren being raised in an atheist environment may tend to be very open to the idea of God later on, perhaps because he/she might also experience "abusive, nasty, self-centered, arrogant, delusional" atheists. Your reaction and the majority posts I've seen here serve as an example of how bitter atheists can be in their lives, and actually the presence of this board really is a blessing in disguise.

Thank you Sophus.  You are correct that is the whole quote.  However the point of Whitney's contention is not with the latter, where it speaks simply of the apparent bitterness of atheists, but with the former wehre it speaks of Tanks grandchildren specifically.

To further specify her point of contention, if you would refer to her last post (mis) quoting Achronos specifically.

Thanks though.  The whole quote is helpful.

[strike:27x158fs]AD is on a one week ban for ignoring my post (he couldn't have posted without seeing it due to the new posts warning message).[/strike:27x158fs]

Quote from: "hingedro"What would you do if someone in your social circle claimed to be the Christ Eternal?

"So...wanna play xbox?"

Quote from: "hingedro"A second (if slightly off-topic) question; why do atheists refuse to bow before the Lord Jesus, when he has formally admitted his divinity?

He needs to tell me in person.

AD's ban has been reversed after finding out that he missed my post and understands what I was asking him to do.

Quote from: "Whitney"AD's ban has been reversed after finding out that he missed my post and understands what I was asking him to do.

Yes.  Thank you.  

Folks, why can't we all just get along?

Quote from: "hingedro"Folks, why can't we all just get along?

Why do you think we can't?

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "hingedro"Folks, why can't we all just get along?

Why do you think we can't?

No reason, that's why I'm asking.

Quote from: "hingedro"

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "hingedro"Folks, why can't we all just get along?

Why do you think we can't?

No reason, that's why I'm asking.

Then I see no reason whatsoever why we can't get along  

Quote from: "Tank"Then I see no reason whatsoever why we can't get along  :devil:



 

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Tank"Then I see no reason whatsoever why we can't get along  :devil:



 

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