Happy Atheist Forum

This story has made mainstream news about Kentucky shelling out "$37 million in tax incentives" for a Creationist/Noah's Ark Theme Park (http://arkencounter.com/). I know a lot of atheists like to visit Creationist Museums for kicks and giggles (I'll admit, although I've never gone I do fancy the idea of riding a robotic triceratops), though if there has to be a place to draw the line I think I'd draw it here. Not just because the money payed for an entrance ticket to see a big fake boat could be better spent on a theme park that's actually fun and equally as factual with talking mice or masked men with spider DNA, but because this monstrous amount of money for this monstrous amount of nonsense is too ridiculous, and shouldn't get a tax break like museums from any sane society. Even without us visiting they'll probably hurt enough. Eventually Creationists will prefer to visit Mickey over Noah.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Fpharyngula%2Fupload%2F2010%2F12%2Fark.jpeg&hash=ac30eaed9c6c6ba83e76bc0461e51b897ada6be9)

I'm not paying, but if you want to share a cow suit, we could just stand around until they herd us onto the ark, but I do have to be at the eating end.
Ark Park has a ring to it, but Park Ark sounds even better, I think I could train a chook to say that.

Yeah - saw a note on Gizmodo about this:
http://gizmodo.com/5704576/yes-there-wi ... -noahs-ark (http://gizmodo.com/5704576/yes-there-will-be-dinosaurs-on-this-full+scale-noahs-ark)

So, gonna have live animals and dinosaurs?

Maybe they'll let the predators roam freely.  That way god can protect his people and they can prove this whole "natural selection" thing is nonsense...

"Who's a good lion?  I've got some carrots for you!"

No, really? Oh well, can't say I'm surprised. What I wanna know is, will this be a water park?

"Come for the dinosaurs, stay for the flood!"  

Instead of fireworks at the end of the night, they could flood the entire park. Any survivors get a free pass for the next day.

Cheers,
Holly

As of this post there are nine votes for no and only my vote for yes. Wow. I am seriously in the minority here! Lol!

I figured it'd be worth the money to access the place and learn about it. Maybe shoot some video and see fist hand, rather than rely on second hand info about the place.

A couple of things I noticed on the website for this inspiring project. (Yes, I said "inspiring," but I didn't say what it inspired in me.) :verysad:

Quote from: "Recusant"A couple of things I noticed on the website for this inspiring project. (Yes, I said "inspiring," but I didn't say what it inspired in me.) roflol That is too beautiful an observation.  

I am wondering when we will see the first Experience HELL theme park. It would be very popular come late October.

I'd pay to go see it, just to see how in the hell they present the whole thing.

I mean, if they built it to the specifications in Scripture, and went through laying out the inside of the thing for all the animals, it could be interesting. Interesting to see how many animals they have to leave out, or how little room they have for food, or how you dispose of so much animal waste, or the numerous other problems with the ark story. I'd be curious to see if anyone visiting ark park would notice the problems themselves, once the ark is there for them to comprehend its actual size.

I'd really like to see the freshwater aquariums on board, myself.

Oh yeah, and I checked out the webpage as well - amusing, to say the least.  

I'm thinking that by building this ark they might actually get the opposite results they want. It'll put it into perspective for some folks that every animal in the world simply couldn't fit on that boat.

By the way, they are apparently only loading it up with young animals. If they're wanting to keep them "young" they'll have to go through a lot of replacements.

QuoteAnimals including giraffes -- but only small, young giraffes -- will be kept in pens on board.

"We think that God would probably have sent healthy juvenile-sized animals that weren't fully grown yet, so there would be plenty of room," said Mr. Zovath, a retired Army lieutenant colonel heading the ark project. "We want to show how Noah would have taken care of them, taken care of waste management, taken care of water needs and food needs."

Riiiiigghht. 'Cause you want to make this as realistic as possible.

What about the dinosaurs? How did Noah care for them?

Quote from: "Sophus"I'm thinking that by building this ark they might actually get the opposite results they want. It'll put it into perspective for some folks that every animal in the world simply couldn't fit on that boat.

By the way, they are apparently only loading it up with young animals. If they're wanting to keep them "young" they'll have to go through a lot of replacements.

QuoteAnimals including giraffes -- but only small, young giraffes -- will be kept in pens on board.

"We think that God would probably have sent healthy juvenile-sized animals that weren't fully grown yet, so there would be plenty of room," said Mr. Zovath, a retired Army lieutenant colonel heading the ark project. "We want to show how Noah would have taken care of them, taken care of waste management, taken care of water needs and food needs."

Riiiiigghht. 'Cause you want to make this as realistic as possible.

What about the dinosaurs? How did Noah care for them?

Yeah, that's what I think would be the interesting part - how much stuff do they have to leave out to make it seem plausible? I totally think it'll have the opposite effect than what they want. It's easy to shrug off any quibbles about the ark, since it's just in writing - "You don't know how big it was!" - but once they build it to the exact size, and people can really see...

I'd love to see the cost sheets for this thing, for just the ark. How much wood it would take, how far they'll have to transport it, the cost of the sealants and whatnot. For real authenticity, they should have only a half dozen people build it, by hand - no cranes or any of that useful modern stuff.

As for the 'juvenile' thing, well...
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH512_1.html

I don't really have any interest in driving that far and paying a lot of money to see a half-ass replica or a mythological ark.  So, I voted no.

However, I would reconsider if I knew I could enter the park with a group of various scientific experts (preferably theists) all wearing shirts saying "ask me how I know the Noah story is a myth."  Then it would be worth paying.

Croaker brings up a point that I am almost willing to bet the park doesn't even bother addressing: the freshwater aquariums. Or, if they do think of them, they'll make up all sorts of shit reasons why they weren't needed. It's funny, in the ark story in the bible, there is little mentioned about all kinds of issues that biblical apologists have simply been making up shit in order to address, not the least of which is dinosaurs.

All of the bullshit could have been avoided if all of these douchebags had just had the intellectual honesty to admit it's just a story. But after a small group of people decide they are going to lie and then are willing to perpetuate that lie over and over until lots of people believe it we now have all of this manure.

And the sad bottom line is the same old story...follow the money.

Jerkoffs. All of them.

No... My money is better spent on smokes and gasoline.

They're building an ark?

Quote from: "Cecilie"They're building an ark?

First one, I wonder if they'll try to place two of every animal in it... and not clean it out for seven months, just give it that authenticity.

Voted No.  It's going to be a building - not an Ark.

I would go if they built a large enough lake to float it on - fully laden with animals and the Noachian family members.  

I would pay for admission if they could get it to float, untethered, on a relatively calm 'sea' - say - a 2 metre or 8 foot swell (that should be enough  :evil:

Quote from: "Atrax Robustus"I'd definitely pay to attend the trial for the manslaughter and animal cruelty charges after the thing capsized or simply broke up, drowning everything on board. :P

Are there going to be live animals there? If so, what's the difference between ark park and a regular zoo?
And they'll probably have a gift shop selling little Noah dolls. That's the guy who built the ark, right?  

Quote from: "Sophus"I am wondering when we will see the first Experience HELL theme park.

This is an incredibly pertinent point.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "Sophus"I am wondering when we will see the first Experience HELL theme park.

This is an incredibly pertinent point.

True.  It would have to be HELL though as there appears to be some agreement amongst theists on what it would be like.  An Experience Heaven theme park would (other than being extremely boring) result in violence, protests and potential fundamentalist attacks because theists appear to have great difficulty defining or agreeing on what heaven is, let alone what heaven is like.

Quote from: "Cecilie"Are there going to be live animals there? If so, what's the difference between ark park and a regular zoo?
And they'll probably have a gift shop selling little Noah dolls. That's the guy who built the ark, right?  :D

Quote from: "Atrax Robustus"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "Sophus"I am wondering when we will see the first Experience HELL theme park.

This is an incredibly pertinent point.

True.  It would have to be HELL though as there appears to be some agreement amongst theists on what it would be like.  An Experience Heaven theme park would (other than being extremely boring) result in violence, protests and potential fundamentalist attacks because theists appear to have great difficulty defining or agreeing on what heaven is, let alone what heaven is like.

Love the points you made in this thread. Yep, it's just going to be a big building in a somewhat ark shape, based on whoever decides what that is. I would love to see them try and float a real ark. Just the logistics of building the damn thing should be enough to sink this stupid myth. It would go way over budget and over time, and at some point, someone would have to say that there's no way some old guy and a couple of his sons built this boat.

With some good physics-based 3D modeling, knowledge of the details of the ark story, and a decent ability to tell a story, we could come up with a video showing how absurd this would be in real life. We could build this in a virtual model, showing all the pitfalls we've talked about. The literal gathering of every life form, the storage, the food, the building of the boat, all by a few people, none of whom were specialized in training or education to do any of it.

Ok, so they'd just come back and claim miracle. But, guess what? It doesn't say miracle in the story anywhere. Hah! Take that, dipsticks!

Quote from: "McQ"Ok, so they'd just come back and claim miracle. But, guess what? It doesn't say miracle in the story anywhere. Hah! Take that, dipsticks!

This is exactly what they would do. Any problems with such stories in the Bible are shrugged off as 'miracles,' whether the original story mentions such miracles or not. Which then begs the question, if God is going to have to put his hand in for every step of the ark, why not save himself some trouble and just kill everyone but Noah and his family overnight? Hell, he killed all the firstborn sons in the Moses story - I can't imagine it'd be too hard to tell the angel of death to be a little less discriminatory.

Quote from: "McQ"Love the points you made in this thread. Yep, it's just going to be a big building in a somewhat ark shape, based on whoever decides what that is. I would love to see them try and float a real ark. Just the logistics of building the damn thing should be enough to sink this stupid myth.

It'll never happen McQ.  The Ark is a common 'feasibility' test that many 2nd year Naval Architects and Marine Engineers are given as an assignment. What the bible describes is a wooden vessel of at least 450 feet on length; it would leak as quickly as the proverbial sieve, capsize and sink even if it was placed on a dead calm sea/lake.  Even if it did stay intact long enough to float, the slightest swell would break the thing into planks within minutes as the hog and sag stresses would splinter the longitudinal structural members from stem to stern.

Noah's "Ark" Checklist:

1) Lots of wood for structure - check!
2) Nails and pegs to hold wood together - check!
3) Pitch and tar for waterproofing - check!
4) 2 or 7 of every animal on the planet for cargo - check! (gotta figure out the whole "clean/unclean" thingy)
5) Family to crew and care for animals- check! (except for Uncle Bob... we're leaving him)
6) God to make it float, hold all the animals, keep it waterproof, etc. (gotta work on this last one...)
7) Profit!  (er... survive?)

Quote from: "Atrax Robustus"

Quote from: "McQ"Love the points you made in this thread. Yep, it's just going to be a big building in a somewhat ark shape, based on whoever decides what that is. I would love to see them try and float a real ark. Just the logistics of building the damn thing should be enough to sink this stupid myth.

It'll never happen McQ.  The Ark is a common 'feasibility' test that many 2nd year Naval Architects and Marine Engineers are given as an assignment. What the bible describes is a wooden vessel of at least 450 feet on length; it would leak as quickly as the proverbial sieve, capsize and sink even if it was placed on a dead calm sea/lake.  Even if it did stay intact long enough to float, the slightest swell would break the thing into planks within minutes as the hog and sag stresses would splinter the longitudinal structural members from stem to stern.

That's great to know. All of which makes it even more baffling as to why any rational adult who thinks about this for any amount of time believes it could have been true.

Quote from: "McQ"That's great to know. All of which makes it even more baffling as to why any rational adult who thinks about this for any amount of time believes it could have been true.

Magic, probably...  :|

Quote from: "Atrax Robustus"It'll never happen McQ.  The Ark is a common 'feasibility' test that many 2nd year Naval Architects and Marine Engineers are given as an assignment. What the bible describes is a wooden vessel of at least 450 feet on length; it would leak as quickly as the proverbial sieve, capsize and sink even if it was placed on a dead calm sea/lake.  Even if it did stay intact long enough to float, the slightest swell would break the thing into planks within minutes as the hog and sag stresses would splinter the longitudinal structural members from stem to stern.

This.  It couldn't stay afloat even empty.  Laden with animals and foodstores, it wouldn't be able to ride out a clear day of sailing, much less forty days of the worst storm in history.  It would break keel and fall apart.

Interesting story developing from this. Since the park is getting a tax break in hopes that it will create jobs they aren't allowed to discriminate on religious grounds.

Quote from: "url=http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20101209/NEWS01/312090053/1008/NEWS01/Beshear+says+Ark+Park+contract+will+prohibit+religious+discrimination]Courier Journal[/url]"]
Gov. Steve Beshear said Thursday that he will require the state's contract with developers of a Noah's Ark-based theme park in Northern Kentucky to prohibit the project from receiving state tax incentives if there is discrimination in hiring based on religion or other attributes.
In a meeting with The Courier-Journal's editorial board, Beshear said that he views the theme park as a job creation venture rather than a religious one and that he expects the group building it to comply with federal and state laws that bar discrimination.

But can they discriminate once they are hired? As Ed Brayton asks:

QuoteBut let's say one of those folks gets hired as a tour guide. Can the park force them to teach that Noah's flood was real and global like a literal interpretation of the Bible suggests? Can an entity that receives government subsidy force someone to say things that are against their conscience, especially when those things are clearly religious in nature?

Bear in mind that the Answers in Genesis creationism museum requires that all employees sign a statement of faith, which would obviously not be allowed here because it would require religious discrimination. But if they can't force someone to sign a statement of faith because of religious discrimination laws, can they force them, as a condition of employment, to confess or support a sectarian religious viewpoint as part of their job?

This raises a lot of very interesting legal questions.

I think it'd be hilarious if someone joined and then started to teach evolution and the immense absurdity of the Noah's Flood story  

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"I think it'd be hilarious if someone joined and then started to teach evolution and the immense absurdity of the Noah's Flood story  :hide:

This just keeps getting more and more embarrassing. There are going to be unicorns and dragons (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Kentucky-Creationist-Museum-Will-Feature-Dragons-Unicorns-2838) on this ark too.

Humanity... I give up on you.

Another thing that kind of hit me is that they're going to be trying to portray the world as it existed in Noah's time... that was so bad that god had to destroy it all... will people be able to take their children to the park? I imagine there will be all sorts of sin going on to show why god had to kill all but 8 humans and a pair of each animal (plus 5 more of each "clean" beast).

Maybe they could make a waterpark out of it.

Quote from: "Sophus"This just keeps getting more and more embarrassing. There are going to be unicorns and dragons (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Kentucky-Creationist-Museum-Will-Feature-Dragons-Unicorns-2838) on this ark too.

Humanity... I give up on you.

And they feel insulted when we call their religion a fairy tale.

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"

Quote from: "Sophus"This just keeps getting more and more embarrassing. There are going to be unicorns and dragons (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Kentucky-Creationist-Museum-Will-Feature-Dragons-Unicorns-2838) on this ark too.

Humanity... I give up on you.

And they feel insulted when we call their religion a fairy tale.

It's really interesting they're taking this route in explaining a bad translation in the King James version that said "unicorn". Do they want to look silly or do they just love King James that much?

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"And they feel insulted when we call their religion a fairy tale.

A fairytale? yes I suppose, some fairy tales are pretty scary.

Quote from: "Davin"Another thing that kind of hit me is that they're going to be trying to portray the world as it existed in Noah's time... that was so bad that god had to destroy it all... will people be able to take their children to the park? I imagine there will be all sorts of sin going on to show why god had to kill all but 8 humans and a pair of each animal (plus 5 more of each "clean" beast).

OK, it's starting to sound like quite an enjoyable theme park. Adults Only of course!